|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Willy Brandt article.|
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- 1 What did he actually do?
- 2 Logic Problem?
- 3 Article quality
- 4 Protected
- 5 No pic
- 6 Wrong Link !!! Different Schröder =
- 7 State Funeral
- 8 Time Magazine cover problem
- 9 "How Brandt was able to win over the students"
- 10 Confusing
- 11 Fair use rationale for Image:Willy Brandt Time.jpg
- 12 Place of Birth
- 13 Enormous bulleted list
- 14 critique
- 15 Willy Brandt Center Jerusalem
What did he actually do?
the section of 'foreign policy' just vaguely says he had raproachment w the East. What does this mean specifically? Relaxing tariffs? the section of 'domestic policy' lists no actual policy changes and just talks about why he was popular and who was in his cabinet and some scandal. what did Brandt specifically do to change things in West Germany? vroman (talk) 15:22, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
First we read:
Around 1973, West German security organizations received information that one of Brandt's personal assistants, Günter Guillaume, was a spy for the East German state.
and later, about Matthias:
Earlier that year - when the Brandts and the Guillaumes took a vacation to Norway together - it was Matthias, then twelve years old, who was the first to discover that Guillaume and his wife 'were typing mysterious things on type writers the whole night through'.
The later sentence reads to me as if Matthias was the first to discover that something was wrong with the Guillaumes, but this is clearly not the case if it was known the year before already.
I have removed "He was the first chancellor to be free of any Nazi ties" or whatever that was. While his predecessor Kiesinger was indeed accused of those, IIRC, the same cannot be safely said of Adenauer. -- djmutex 2002-04-28
'Willy Brandt developed an alcohol problem and was frequently too drunk to speak.'. This is quite a serious allegation - can we have a source for it? Morwen 14:38, Mar 7, 2004 (UTC)
This article has really come a long way since I first looked at it a year or so ago. I don't know anything special about Brandt so I cannot comment intelligently about accuracy or completeness, but as far as style, flow, readability, appropriate depth of coverage, neutrality, and all the rest, it seems quite well done now. One thing that may be missing is sourcing/footnotes.
Bhugh 23:09, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
I protected the page on the last stable version due to an ongoing edit war. 172 19:58, 20 May 2004 (UTC)
What's the problem here? The table seems perfectly legitimate. Mackensen 06:35, 21 May 2004 (UTC)
Please unprotect this page and revert to Burschenschafter's last version. What is wrong with the table? Andrewlevine 05:30, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Since there is no longer a pic of Willy Brandt, I went searching for a new one.
I found this site which has pics of all the chancellors and appears to have less restrictive copyright than most sites. (Never mind, it has a very restrictive copyright) That should come in handy as most of the chancellors previous to Brandt have badly tagged/sourced images as well. - Lucky13pjn 18:43, August 20, 2005 (UTC)
Wrong Link !!! Different Schröder =
In the bottom table: The predecessor as Min. o. frgn. Aff. was not that(current Chancellor) Gerhard Schröder!!!
I removed the part that says his funeral was the first German state funeral since 1929. The state funeral for Konrad Adenauer in 1967 is one of my earliest childhood memories :-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Romulus15 (talk • contribs) 08:25, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Time Magazine cover problem
The Time Magazine cover seems to imply that this is the "man of the year" cover when it is not. (It is just another time magazine cover showing Brandt but NOT the Jan 4 1971 edition that is actually the "man of the year".)
The actual "man of the year" cover can be found here: man of year cover
"How Brandt was able to win over the students"
I think that the name of this section should be changed to something that has more of a professional, encyclopedic tone to it. --Tabun1015 17:50, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
- How about "Winning support from the left" or something like that. It was not just students he won over - although students were an important part of the radical left they were not the whole of it.
- I have some knowledge of European political history but I am not German and have no strong right or left position. I would be happy to try to edit the language where neutrality is questioned (to improve grammar as well as to make it more NPOV). But I want to ask here first in case someone is working on a big edit. Shall I go ahead and edit?
- Circusandmagicfan 08:11, 22 March 2007 (UTC)Circusandmagicfan
- From my point of view The Baby Boomers is not necessary at all. It is my generation, and (sorry, POV) there were probably as many Baby Boomers who liked Brandt as they disliked him. You can't say it that simply I'm afraid. German WP has nothing about this at all. The APO disliked him completely. --MrsMyer (talk) 14:44, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
- Agreed. Brandt wasn't very left at the beginning and the end, but his policy made a big former part of the SPD, e.g. Hupkas refugees move to the conservative side. Brandt versus Kiesinger was more a life style question than really political (their cooperation in the grand coalition had been very smooth), Brandt won among the baby boomers with a VERY narrow one, quite comparably to Kennedy against Nixon some years before. KIeseinger tended to compare the students movement with his own students movement - as a young Nazi - and was not to harsh about them. Brandt in 1972 however won the best resulat of all times for the SPD. --Polentario (talk) 00:10, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
The Portuguese Socialist Party won the elections in 1975 with only 37 %. The so called majority was with the combining votes of the PPD and the CDS. It´s really difficult to understand the political situation of Portugal during the PREC, in 1975, but the idea of a communist military dictatorship seems in reprospective virtually impossible. User:Mistico20:02, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Fair use rationale for Image:Willy Brandt Time.jpg
Image:Willy Brandt Time.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 12:20, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
A rationale was added in the last few days so this problem should be solved. Bhugh 18:06, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
Place of Birth
The city of Lübeck where Brandt was born didn't belong to the Kingdom of Prussia at the time of his birth. Instead it has been a free city within the German Empire (until 1918 and afterwards in the Weimar Republic) similar to Hamburg and Bremen. It lost its status as a free city (after holding it for over 700 years) in 1937 (Groß-Hamburg-Gesetz by Adolf Hitler). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 21:45, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
And in Addition to that: "Lübeck, Kingdom of Prussia (now Germany)" -> Not only Lübeck but also Prussia did belong to the German Empire, the Deutsches Reich, since 1871. And the German Empire was ... Germany. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 08:50, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
Enormous bulleted list
The "Chancellor of domestic reform" section contains an enormous bulleted list - two and a half pages on my 1080 monitor - of his achievements as chancellor. It's a disaster. What went wrong here? One editor working on his own, or was it a short list that other people added to? It's great to learn about his "amendment to a federal civil service reform bill (1971) which enabled fathers to apply for part-time civil service work" and his "extension of accident insurance to non-working adults" but this is sub-trivial stuff. So, he passed "the Seventh Modification Law (1973), which linked the indexation of farmers’ pensions to the indexation of the general pension insurance scheme" and "the Third Modification Law (1974), which extended individual entitlements to social assistance by means of higher-income limits compatible with receipt of benefits and lowered age limits for certain special benefits". No doubt true, but what the hell? What went wrong? I suggest you leave a message on my talk page when you decide to stop editing Wikipedia, so that I can come back and erase the whole rotten lot. -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 22:12, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
- Not to mention "the Second Sickness Insurance Modification Law (1972), which linked the indexation of the income-limit for compulsory employee coverage to the development of the pension insurance contribution ceiling (75% of the ceiling), (and) obliged employers to pay half of the contributions in the case of voluntary membership, extended the criteria for voluntary membership of employees, and introduced preventive medical check-ups for certain groups". How is this notable? Did it come to pass? Was it amended in the future? What impact did it have? Why did he introduce it? When and how did it pass into law? Who was affected? Is it still in force? Why is it notable? Again, what went wrong? Systemic failure or individual insufficiency? -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 22:17, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
- Yes, the bulleted laundry list of Brandt's "accomplishments" exceeds 2,000 words and is far, far too long and detailed. What would work in context would be a concise summary of his major policy successes, comprising two or three paragrahps of clear English prose. (Speaking as a former newspaper editor, I can say that bullets usually are useful for no more than half a dozen items.) The list as it exists is impenetrable to the average reader and serves no purpose whatever. (In fact, IMO, the article would be better without any such section than with this monstrosity. I was tempted to simply delete the whole thing.) This is really a glaring fault in an entry about a major figure of recent history.
- I'd do the revision myself but I lack expertise re Willy Brandt's career and must leave the task to someone else, preferably a German fluent in English, to come up with something appropriate.
Surely its useful for people to know exactly what Willy Brandt did in office. Isn't deleting that information it a bit extreme? I thought that Wikipedia was about sharing knowledge. :::zictor23 (talk)
1.) He had sought Norwegian statehood by then - and as a Norwegian fighting with the allies he's clearly not a traitor 2.) Even if he still had been a German he could only be a traitor under the condition that the Nazi regime was legit. By breaking the Weimar constitution they lost legitimacy in 1933 - and there was no free election afterwards until 1949. So Brandt did not only have the right but the duty to fight them. You could argue though that every German fighting for Germany was a traitor since they fought for an illegitime dictatorship. 3.) And even if the Nazi regime would have been legit: They started to hunt him down in 1933 for nothing more than just his political views. Thus joining the allied forces when the Nazis illegally occupied Norway clearly was an act of self defense against an illegal attack. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 08:07, 12 September 2013 (UTC)Vokoban