Talk:Winston-Salem, North Carolina

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Est Population[edit]

If anyone is tracking this, the population numbers are currently missing...I couldn't find when they were edited to revert (talk) 21:00, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

It reads almost 300,000 is that correct? If so what is the source (talk) 02:27, 5 May 2008 (UTC)eric

Brandon366 17:22, 11 June 2007 (UTC)winston-salem is now bigger than greensboro and durham due to the annex

-Ummm no. The annex only boosted the population to 203,000. Durham (according to it's page) has 5,000 more people and Greensboro is even larger.


i grew up in winston-salem and have never, ever, ever heard it referred to as "The Camel City." --jeffatkins

  • I've lived in Winston my entire life. Heard it called Camel City many times, but only in local business names (Camel City Cleaners, Camel City Cafe, ad nauseum) -- but I've NEVER heard it called "The Dash." Ever. There's not even a dash in the name. It's a hyphen. The closest thing I can think of is a local organization called DASH that helps young professionals make friends with other young professionals through bar crawls. Will anyone be terribly offended if I remove that completely erroneous bit of information about the nickname? Or is there another WS resident present who actually refers to our city as that?Dianachristine 17:48, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Same here. I never heard it called the Dash. Ever. Perhaps a bunch of mooks came up with it trying to be trendy when they worked on improving the nightlife downtown. I can't be sure since I've been in Atlanta for 7 years now. Can't sign because I don't have an account. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:55, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
  • In the opening paragraph it stated:
    and home to the tallest building in the area, the Wachovia Center.

I thought that the tallest building in the area was in Charlotte,NC. The Bank of America building in uptown Charlotte is the tallest building between Phelidelphia and Atlanta...right? Someone plaese change this or revise it to prehaps state that it is the tallest building in the imeadiate metro area.

I think by "in the area", they mean the Winston-Salem/Greensboro/High point metro area. Charlotte is over 100 miles south and has the tallest building in the state (and 2nd or 3rd tallest in the south)

Aren't Winston and Salem two separate cities? –radiojon 05:20, 2003 Sep 30 (UTC)

No: they used to be. They merged quite some time ago, however. I should edit this with details... my hometown and all that.
Fennec 21:20, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Updated with a brief history of the city, and a list of some of the city's attractions. I might add more later...
-Fennec 22:41, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Merged quite some time ago indeed :), 1927 if memory serves. Winston is my hometown too! (North Forsyth, 1981) Elde 03:32, 27 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Ive added features and attractions, economy, along with general improvements. More coming soon hopefully Lookitzatree 20:50, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Suggestions (for new categories or additions to features and attractions): Hospitals and medical care, Parks, Historical Sites List, Weather.Lookitzatree 02:49, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

This article reads like a Chamber of Commerce promotion. It ignores the "Barbarians at the Gate" trauma and other economic dislocations caused by companies abandoning the city. The new Dell plant is not high tech; it is manufacturing. The city has showed up on lists of some of the worst urban sprawl in the country. The new economic model, in truth, is based on road building and strip development. I'm making a call for honesty here before I make any changes to the page. And yes it's my hometown -- Reynolds High School class of '67. --Daltoni 05:44, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC) says that the Winston and Salem post offices were merged in 1899 (not 1889), with the hyphen in the new postmark. "The hyphen became permanent in 1913 when Salem and Winston joined, and the "Twin City" of Winston-Salem emerged."

The Dell info is nice, but it's news not data. It will be irrevalent soon.

Unless there are any objections, I'm taking the cleanup tag off. The article looks fine, better than a lot other city articles. Gooday.1 17 April 2006

I changed "fouth" to "fourth" in the first paragraph. "Fourth largest city in NC" -- Punchinelli 14:58, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I think it is now the fifth largest due to Durhams growth. It's page states it at over 208,000 and Winston's population at over 203,000

Rick Rutledge (talk) 15:17, 1 October 2008 (UTC) Who put the comment about being named "most affluent city in NC in 2008"? What's the source for that? Is that per capita?

Per the dash, there has been discussion of this in the W-S Journal because different web sites, mapping software, the PO, etc., disagree on whether there is a dash/hyphen (the PO currently omits it in automatically generated addresses; some web-sites will not accept the name with a dash/hyphen). "Dash" the magazine/column is a reference, of course to "What's 'in' Winston-Salem." (There's a 'dash' in the middle of it all...) Bad pun, but, hey, that's marketing. Don't have a cite for the W-S Journal article at-hand. Rick Rutledge (talk) 15:17, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

How can anyone write an article about W-S and state that there are only two universities in the city?? The N.C. School of the Arts, nationally recognized, is completely omitted! How odd. Who wrote this stuff? And I agree, I've never in my life heard the city referred to as "The Dash," at least not until that became the new name of the baseball team a few weeks ago. And I was born and raised here, as were my parents, grandparents and great-grandparents.

I, too, grew up near WS, and I have never heard a thing about the city being nicknamed The Dash. If you go to Hanes Mall or Thruway and ask 100 random people about that being a city nickname, all you'll get are blank looks. For that to remain in the Wiki article, it definitely needs to be acceptably sourced. Engr105th (talk) 20:03, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Tre 4[edit]

Isn't Winston known as the "tre four?" Somebody edit the article to include that and say why.

It's already under the "slang" section, but it needs some source to back it up. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gooday.1 (talkcontribs) 01:33, 5 February 2007 (UTC).

"Tre Four", "Tre-4" or "Tre-Fo" (meaning 34) is prison slang and has no relevance to the article.Wikibones (talk) 21:53, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Reynolda House Museum of American Art[edit]

It is my understanding that the house and museum are not owned by Wake Forest University. It is an independent nonprofit. The grounds around the museum are owned by the University. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talk) 21:24, 14 March 2007 (UTC).

Reynolda House became part of Wake Forest in 2002. The board of directors are appointed by WFU's board of trustees, and the director is appointed by WFU's president. (talk) 14:04, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Famous Residents[edit]

The criteria for inclusion in this list really need to be clarified. At present, the guidelines seem extremely fuzzy. For example, should this be a list for people who are currently alive and residing in the city or not? Some of the people on the list were born in Winston-Salem, but did not live there for a significant amount of time and do not live there now (e.g. Pam Grier). Another questionable entry is for Howard Cosell, who was born in Winston-Salem, but lived much of his life in New York and died in New York City. Should famous Winston-Salem residents who are now dead be included at all? Sullenspice 15:42, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Quibbling over "red links" is irrelevant. The deleted, red-linked people are not particularly notable, much less famous, anyway. The core problem with this section is that the criteria concerning who qualifies as a "famous resident" have not been satisfactorily addressed. Let's not get side-tracked. I think we should sort out issues of notability as well as who is considered a "resident" (which, at present, seems overly broad to the point of inaccuracy). Sullenspice 13:49, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Winston-Salem (and the article) benefit from the association with Famous Residents, whether they be current or former. Many former residents serve on boards for local Winston-Salem interests and still contribute greatly to the community, plus it is interesting, colorful, and of great reference value for the W-S to list both current and former residents. I don't see that there should be a strict criteria on this, as long as the person is noteworthy. The question of possibly not including "dead" former residents is extreme. It would severely diminish the reference value of the list if famous "dead" people are not included.Wikibones (talk) 16:32, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Global Warming[edit]

Timber Rattlesnake 05:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)I added a little bit about the recent global warming legislation in the geography section. If any one as any ideas on what would be a more approiate section let me know.


The motto on the city seal reads "Urbs condita adjuvando"---"a city founded on cooperation" as my Latin teacher at Gray High School taught us. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 13:50, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Dianachristine 18:10, 5 September 2007 (UTC) I've never heard of "You're Something Special in Winston-Salem." The last motto I heard was "O!" or "O! W-S" and I was wondering if there was some sort of citation for the other motto. Winston-Salem's website doesn't mention either motto anywhere that I can see.

_____________ That's because residents or should I saw local gov't spent a lot of tax money for a motto that is an exact copy of another city. Residents do not claim these mottos at all.

Until I saw W-S's site on Wiki I had no idea there was an old motto of You’re Something Special in Winston-Salem. It certainly has not been advertised well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:48, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Is Wikipedia a platform for magazine and cities to promote themselves for economic gain?[edit]

Because some of the stuff in the magaines section looks like it to me. Pgc512 20:51, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:WSwarthogs.PNG[edit]

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Non-local newspaper[edit]

I added Q-Notes, North Carolina's LGBT newspaper to the list of media in Winston-Salem. While not based there, the paper does serve Winston-Salem, reports on Winston-Salem news and events. The LGBT community in North Carolina just isn't large enough to have LGBT newspapers in every city. It is exclusionary and biased to leave out this particular newspaper just because it isn't based in the city. It is distributed there and has readers there. Further Q-Notes is the only LGBT print news medium covering all of North Carolina statewide. I have reverted the edit made by User:Digitalican. Matt (talk) 20:54, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Um, yes, it's exclusionary. We're not talking about civil rights here we're talking about encyclopedic accuracy. I have no doubt that Q-Notes serves it's community well, but it's not a paper local to Winston-Salem. Digitalican (talk) 00:39, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Motto change.[edit]

I'd like to suggest that the motto listed on the page be changed to "Urbs Condita Adiuvando" as on the city seal and flag. "Your Life. Enriched" and other such phrases are not official city mottos, but as noted here - - Chamber of Commerce-created slogans -DavidSSabb (talk) 15:25, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm inclined to agree, but I see general unclearness on what the "motto" parameter should be use for. The template documentation does not give much information on the parameter, so I posted a general inquiry about it on that talk page. –Sparkgap (talk) 00:31, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

Rank of city size in the state[edit]

I've twice corrected the Winston-Salem to be the fifth-largest city in NC from the fourth-largest city based on the reference linked to in the article. (The largest cities according to the article are, in order, Charlotte, Raleigh, Greensboro, Durham, and Winston-Salem.) Others seem to disagree and change it back. Rather than starting a revert war, I'd ask if anyone has a more recent citation that lists Winston-Salem as the fourth-largest city in the state. --Strandist (talk) 21:19, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

I too questioned that as soon as I read it. Just couldn't quite believe it was 4th, given what I know of its history (and decline from its "glory days"), and the rise of other areas in the state (RTP area, and Durham, as you mention)...But anyway, the Durham wiki article lists Durh as 5th largest with a pop of 228,330 while the WS wiki article gives a WS pop of 229,617 (both are 2010 census figures). So maybe WS is indeed 4th. But if not, it appears that several articles will need correction...Engr105th (talk) 00:01, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
I believe that Winston-Salem and Durham have traded places for 4th and 5th a few times over the past decade. Annexation played a role in this too. I do not have any references on hand, but I think some local news papers might have articles. Anyway, which ever place it is, there should be a cite to a current reference that backs it up. –Sparkgap (talk) 14:51, 30 August 2011 (UTC)
Ok good point...I don't have a dog in this fight (and really don't care). Would it be an equitable solution to simply erase any mention of "4th or 5th place" in both the WS and Durh articles, and simply leave the 2010 census figures in place?...Just a thought...Engr105th (talk) 09:30, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I'm not concerned over which is 4th or 5th, as this seems like trivia or knowledge only useful for bragging rights. I have no objection to removing the placements in both articles. If there is an objection to not mentioning how these two cities are among the most populated in the state, I suggest the replacing the placements with following or simular language: "_____ is one of the five most populated cities in North Carolina." –Sparkgap (talk) 13:18, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
Concur I agree with Sparkgap that it is trivial and "one of the top five" or something like that would be appropriate. For those who care, though, I just looked over the [2010 census] figures and came up with the following top six: Charlotte - 731,424; Raleigh - 403,892; Greensboro - 269,666; Winston-Salem - 229,617; Durham - 228,330; Fayetteville - 200,564. But as for a citation for this, I would like to see somewhere that has the top cities listed based on the 2010 census, but have not found any yet. Only listings of top NC cities that use some really old info. However, the closest I have found is this [NCpedia listing] using 2009 estimated data.JoannaSerah (talk) 14:42, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
updateI just found one that uses the new data called [GeoNames]. This could be cited.JoannaSerah (talk) 14:49, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
I notice the first sentence of the Demographics paragraph lists 2000 Census data. That needs to be changed too (and perhaps the other data - households, etc)...As an aside, there is a LOT of trivial info throughout this article. Reads like an advertisement for the city, to me. Engr105th (talk) 15:51, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Removed Civil Air Patrol section[edit]

I removed the section on Civil Air Patrol since the section as it was written was mostly a summary of the goals of the Civil Air Patrol program (which is more appropriate on its own page). The remainder of the information was meeting times and locations and contact information (including email address and phone number) for the local chapter. If any mention is added back in, other civic programs should also be added. --Strandist (talk) 03:48, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Fully concur...I was looking at that one too...thanks:)...Engr105th (talk) 05:30, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
By the way, the CAP is mentioned under the Transportation section (Aviation) as having a chapter at Smith Reynolds Airport. That is as much as this article needs...Engr105th (talk) 17:43, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Notable Early Businesses ??[edit]

I don't want to open a can of worms - and let's face it, Wikipedia is a great place to post history that might otherwise be unaccessible to many of us - but exactly what is considered 'notable'? I mean, Long Engineering, Millers Clothing Store (the first bell bottoms in WS ??), the cafeteria that is these really belong here? There is also this: "In 1903, R. J. Reynolds advertised in the Winston newspaper a horse stud service for $15.00." Well, ok, but stud services were certainly going on LONG before that - what is notable about Reynolds' service?...I'm not sure of Wiki's protocol, but perhaps notable businesses listed here ought to rate a link to their own separate article, such as RJ Reynolds Tobacco and Krispy Kreme do...Any thoughts? Engr105th (talk) 05:30, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

I remvd the nonsense about the stud horse service...Also remvd the section on Bell Brothers Cafeteria (open from 1953 to 2010; not an 'early' business)...Remvd the section on Long Engineering (it began in 1949; looking at the current website, now known as OneSource Building Technologies, there is nothing notable about this firm. It looks like any other IT-tech-cabling service company).
What's happened is, someone is getting happy with memories of Winston's heyday of the 1920s to mid-60s. No offense, but these modern businesses from the last 60 yrs aren't 'early' or 'notable' except perhaps to that writer's own life...If anyone objects to my removals and wants to add back, please explain first...Engr105th (talk) 14:24, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Remvd "The J.A. and C.E. Bennett Marble and Granite Works was established in 1885."...I cannot find that they are still in business or anything - though they might be....Regardless, what is the notability? Engr105th (talk) 21:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Texas Pete hot sauce is a legitimate item to W-S's fame, but the mention that Thad Garner started it 'as a teen' with '$600 from driving a school bus' needs firm sourcing, not anecdotal evidence. Is this legit? The Texas Pete link doesn't indicate any of this (i.e. Thad's teen establishment of the business, etc)...Could we simply link Texas Pete to the W-S article? Engr105th (talk) 21:54, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Adjusted the Texas Pete section on the W-S article. To expand on it, please go to Texas Pete...Engr105th (talk) 01:52, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

I removed the recently-added reference to Bloomday Granite and Marble, which was added as "one rising business is..." established in the 1940s. No doubt its a great business, but it is not Early or particularly Notable by looking at it's website. Appeared to be added as advertising. Engr105th (talk) 00:57, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

Opening para - One of the state's most affluent communities ?[edit]

POV. By what measure? Corporate, or number of millionaires and "old money"? Or is 'community' intended to rank an area, ex: Sherwood Forest or Buena Vista?...The city overall cannot be esp affluent; look at the Demographics paragraph: "The median income for a household in the city is $39,589, and the median income for a family is $46,595. Males have a median income of $32,398 versus $25,335 for females. The per capita income for the city is $39,468. 11.2% of the population and 4.3% of families are below the poverty line..." etc etc. Nothing special about that. Engr105th (talk) 21:03, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks to whoever corrected this...Engr105th (talk) 19:36, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Notable Residents[edit]

The notable residents list is rather long... I looked at some of the them and found several whose connection to W-S is tenuous. Examples: Angela Bassett's Wiki article doesn't suggest any connection that I could find(???). Jada Plinkett Smith's article states she spent 1 yr at NC School of the Arts, then dropped out...Can W-S "claim" people who were students at NCSA, Wake Forest, etc but were never a native son/daughter? Some of these people would be more accurately represented under an alumni list on their school's Wiki articles - the school was the connection, not W-S... Engr105th (talk) 04:48, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Removed approx a dozen names from the list. They were people who were transient to W-S (ex: student athletes and entertainers - never bona-fide residents). Fame is subjective of course, but I couldn't help noticing the list was weighted to recent persons (1990-current), with only a handful of historical notables. It will need more tightening... Engr105th (talk) 17:58, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Angela Bassett was at a convention in North Carolina and said out of her mouth that she was born in NYC moved to Winston Salem shortly after until she was 4 years old before moving to Saint Petersburg, FL. In her autobiography book Friends: A Love Story, it also states that she lived in Winston Salem, NC. I know that it needs to have a source to back up that claim. I agree that Jada Pinkett-Smith for instant can be represented under an alumni list for NC School of Arts. That's probably why they have (Current and Former Resident) in parenthesis so it won't confuse anyone that's reading the list of Notable Resident of WS.

Recreation (Sports) section[edit]

I remvd "Among the successful NBA players who previously attended Wake Forest are Tim Duncan, Josh Howard, Muggsy Bogues, Chris Paul, and Rodney Rogers, and from Winston-Salem State University Earl "The Pearl" Monroe." This seems to be POV - note that with the exception of Bogues (who attended Wake in the 80s), all of the Wake players mentioned are from the 1990s and 2000s. Monroe is perhaps an historical sports figure, but he's the only one mentioned from WSSU. Wake was a member of the ACC long before the 90s, and these sports figures, great though they may be, seem cherry-picked from recent history for this article. They properly belong under their schools' specific Wiki articles, if they have sports sections...Engr105th (talk) 08:50, 7 March 2012 (UTC)


How come the article pagename uses and endash for Winston–Salem but every use in the article is hyphenated Winston-Salem? (talk) 23:49, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

You are right. Hadn't been on much lately and didn't realize this had been changed. A user changed it per WP:DASH, supposedly, but WP:DASH in the section on en dashes says: "By default, follow the dominant convention that a hyphen is used in compounded proper names of single entities, not an en dash." So W-S should be left hyphenated, not en-dash. But the way it was moved I don't know that I can put it back. May need an admin to change it. Thank you. -- JoannaSerah (talk) 00:21, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Still no change? (talk) 13:30, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
This has been corrected. Thank you. -- JoannaSerah (talk) 20:07, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

"Twin Citian"?[edit]

The twin cities are Minneapolis St. Paul, Minnesota. So how are people from Winston Salem called Twin Citians? (talk) 04:15, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't know. I've never heard that either, but the cite points to a news article about a book written in 1992/93 that calls it that. Winston-Salem is kind of a twin city because it combined two different towns/cities into one years ago. Maybe we need more refs for that? -- JoannaSerah (talk) 14:38, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Edits to "Salem" section[edit]

Okay, the information about the Easter service is relevant, but the editor who added it in removed all the historical information about early Moravian settlement in the town. I'm adding that information back. DavidSSabb (talk) 21:14, 9 March 2013 (UTC)


Hi. I'm going through all the US Cities (as per List of United States cities by population) in an effort to provide some uniformity in structure. Anyone have an issue with me restructuring this article as per Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities/US Guideline. I won't be changing any content, merely the order. Occasionally, I will also move a picture just to clean up spacing issues. I've already gone through the top 20 or so on the above list, if you'd like to see how they turned out. Thoughts? Onel5969 (talk) 16:25, 12 March 2014 (UTC)