Talk:Womb and vagina envy

--I noticed the wikipedia article about penis envy wasted no time in saying that Freud's theory was discredited, but there was no effort to do the same for this theory, which I assume is also false.

I'm glad to see we are replacing an unjust patriarchal society with an unjust matriarchal society

Creation is not one-sided

In case nobody has had a biology class lately, the ability to create life is not a sole function of the woman. Both sperm and egg are involved. A woman needs a man, just as a man needs a woman, to create a child. Therefore, a woman can also NEVER create on her own.

Why does each gender continually try to assert superiority over the other, especially in this age of gender "equality"? Women have been unequal for ages, and now that society is finally moving towards equality they want to run with their newfound freedoms and try to exert superiority (as evidenced by your tirade)? It seems to me that women are just as in love with power as men are.

Dgabrech 23:20, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Human beings all love power. Equality can never truly exist. This article is proof just as much as penis envy is possibly a sign of the all too real misogyny in the past. See Affirmative Action for more equality. --207.255.242.48 (talk) 06:02, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Also, if you think about it, all the woman does is feed the child nutrients and everything while it's in the womb. They don't make it grow, it grows itself. Think about plant seeds, or chicken eggs. They do all the growing independently of the parents; it's only the fuel required which is given by the mother. Warmth is required too, which can be provided a number of ways: the warmth of being underground, the warmth of another animal sitting on the egg (male or female), the warmth of being inside the mother. My main point here is, the most either sex will ever be (apart from joint-creator) is an incubator of sorts and, later in the child's life, a caretaker, teacher, role model, etc.

So yes, creation is NOT one-sided, and the nurturing of a child (at least after birth) is done by more than one person, or at least it should be. Not that being an incubator for a child isn't bloodly amazing, mind!Scampfarmer (talk) 23:19, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Genuine or Not

Is this just feminist attack of or satire on Penis Envy? Do the majority of psychologists seriously accept this?

To be frankly honest with you, I don't think freuds complexes are taken seriously by psychologists, more his ideas about the subconcious, pyschoanalysis and so forth. mikeoman (2154 17 July 2006)

lady philosopher; I independantly came upon a similar idea using a different term, "Creation Envy", after a 50 years of living life adventurously and raising 2 children. I have watched and participated in all kinds of relationships: work, collaboration, family, life changes, travels with and without money, living decades in a foreign country, studying and surviving as well as enjoying life whether it gave me only a little to enjoy or a lot, just to name a few. In any case, I have been victim of male violence as well as a rare occaision of female carping or backstabs. I have witnessed even more of that as a concious global citizen. Despite the fact that I enjoy life, I will not ignore that it contains some nasty stuff. I study philosophy at Uni as a continuation of the questions and observations I have had all my life. When I found myself being accused of doing the very ammoral things by the father of my children that instead he was doing I realized that I was functioning as a mirror to him of himself. He was projecting on me his anger about how he had been found out in all these acts. I re heard the same sorts of accusations from so many males to so many positive women that I had a flash..... these guys are so angry at us when we have children. I have heard time and time again of how men get jealous of their offspring for the woman's attention..... But he COULD go to bed with me if he would just get his act together. So what kind of Oedipal conflict is that!! Conclusion: not dear Oedipus, but angry and crazy mad that I (woman) can create something that on his own he could NEVER do. Does not like NEVER. He show the world; he has to go and build buildings and monuments and roads and social structures that get analysed to sterility, economic structures around commercial productive structures that dehumanize anybody involved with them, factories and slaves.... well it just goes on and fits too well.

CREATION ENVY; we women do it from the inside and ask for consideration for having taken the time to join humanity's genes together with another person, while men to create something have to create a purposeful structure so that they too can MAKE something. Now they have put together a Corporate society which is draining women dry of any desire to sit back and mysteriously give life to more people.

You tell me if it does not fit as a way of explaining all the terrible violence perpetrated upon women and children. For me, it fits. So now I live with a man who makes music and makes paths of understanding especially for small children. He is wonderful and enjoys it when I am happy. He loves what I have been able to make of my life and being a part of it. He is Not Jealous, he honors it. So, now I know that there are men out there who can let that come through. They are often not very successful in this male world surrounding them, but they have a place in my psyche as a reason to have kept looking for a fellow traveler.

personal experiences are not valid as evidence72.223.7.108 (talk) 00:50, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Date of theory

What date was this concept first founded? and please made additions to it

Fear?

It would be nice if someone could explain (in the article, citing sources) why men would be fearful of these things. --Nnp 18:09, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

To answer your question:- it might be worth going over the Sigmund Freud argument and the role of complexes. To put it as a fearful concept is a misleading explanation, a better way of explaining this would be to describe it as a "Jealousy thing". During childhood boys develop a envy towards the opposite gender, boys when they are young become jealous as they are unable to give birth- as these thoughts are deemed inappropriate by society, they are subsequently repressed, these become complexes. The womb envy complex will affect the individual through the forces of the dynamic subconcious that in turn affects behaviour, one example may be a subconscious fear of women and so forth? I got this information from the book 'introducing psychoanalysis' (can't remember the author) hope this answers your question mikeoman. (2154 17 July 2006)

lady philosopher: Fear of NEVER being able to do what that other type of person can do. Where did UNIVERSALIZING EQUALITY go??? Hierarchical mind set took over and lashes out regularly. Who else can create like we women do? GOD. That is scary for some. If we can create life what is out our reach? We are witches!!! Scary.

Uh, ok, that's just kind of weird. I sort of envy women because I want to be a parent and it's a lot easier for a woman to hold on to the kid (Should the relationship go awry, which they often do) with this court system of ours, but I wouldn't say I fear her power to create. I cherish it. I know I'm probably stand for very small portion of the population, but I'd like to think that I represent a good portion of the population... --207.255.242.48 (talk) 06:09, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Ya me too home skillet, I'm eternally grateful I don't gotta pop a skull thru my pelvis! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.173.31.167 (talk) 02:00, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

The term womb envy isn't in the index of Horney's book

I can't find any trace of womb envy in the 1993 reprint of Horney's book. Is this entry misattributed to her?

Reillyd 04:54, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

No Horney did in fact coin the term you'll see that in the links. You might find it more easily in The collected works of Karen Horney (volume II)--Cailil ^talk 19:39, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

May 07 Rewrites

I've removed the middle paragraph speculating on evolutionary psychology

This may be a psychological factor in altruistic motivations in men in manifesting evolutionary psychological inborn genetic tendencies towards Altruism. ^{[citation needed]}

If it can be sourced and expalined please readd it. I've also rewritten chunks of the article because it was poorly phrased, passive and at times unclear - I hope this rewrite helps--Cailil ^talk 19:47, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

merge suggestion with vagina envy

related in various ways, but focusing on different aspects. Both articles deserve great expansion, and I think they would turn out to be=quite different. DGG (talk) 00:18, 5 October 2007 (UTC) no consensus for merge, so the redirect has been reverted. Discuss here first. DGG (talk) 01:11, 24 October 2007 (UTC) Several grammatical errors, not really sure what this topic is supposed to be about, vagina envy? Tophermith (talk) 18:19, 21 September 2011 (UTC)