Talk:Wood preservation

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Are there any other green tinted pressure treated woods than CCA ?[edit]

I had some work done on a deck today, and voiced concern about the green strips running through the wood and was told only that they won't sell that to you any more. Rblythe1 14:00, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

What's "Wolmanized" lumber? My dad always called the green stuff that, but I don't see the term here.[edit]

Daibhre 11:56, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Likely referring to Wolmanite-CX 8/10 treatment, I'd say it's the most common way to make treated pine for outdoor use in Europe today, though I have no figures on that Raymond Holmoey (talk) 17:13, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

what does a sawmill do?[edit]

asked 203.164.150.59.

A sawmill is a facility where logs are cut into boards. njh 22:45, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

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Well - technically, that's not true. The "sawmill" is the device that performs the task, not the "facility." Daibhre 11:51, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

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Sorry Daibhre, but you are wrong there. According to the OED a 'Sawmill' is "a factory in which wood is sawn mechanically into planks or boards". The "device" which performs the task is the saw, the mill is "a building fitted with machinery for manufacturing processes, e.g. cotton-mill" (OED). Hence a sawmill is the facility or buildings housing the saw. A Taxed Mind (talk) 10:41, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

About the strange delete in Timber treatment[edit]

Hi Nathan, Maybe you are right about reverting my deletion. The deletion by the way, was actually a reverting to the first thing Bridgman wrote (which I found more relevant to the subject).

Finding other external links is rather difficult because the sodium silicate timber treatment is only offered by one young company TimberSil, and is therefore not in general use (Google it, everything leads to this company). What really triggered my action was the fact that every mention of sodium silicate-based timber treatment in Wikipedia was done by user Bridgman, who in my opinion is Gary Bridgman, public relation director of this same company TimberSil [1]. I therefore concluded (maybe too quick) that we are dealing here with someone who is trying to sell his product on Wiki. If you have an other opinion, that’s all right. 212.102.225.147 10:16, 13 January 2006 (UTC)


Confessions of a PR flack[edit]

One of my current PR clients is indeed Timber Treatment Technologies. Their product, TimberSIL, will prove to be what economists call a "disruptive technology" in that other producers will eventually be forced to imitate this one to remain in business. Normally, my task is to convince editors to assign articles about my clients, but I have been retained by TTT to manage the high number of inbound calls from trade, academic and consumer media outlets. I am also tracking potential attempts by producers of the environmentally questionable forms of treated lumber to prevent TimberSIL from coming to market. Their lobbying efforts have turned it into de-facto contraband in Missouri. Against this yin/yang scenario, Wikipedia is not a viable "selling platform" for TimberSIL, even if that were allowed. The one external link to TTT's site takes the viewer to a list of historic applications of sodium silicate and does not attempt to hawk the product. This forum simply provides an opportunity to present neutral references about a product that is changing an industry.

Prior to my current position, I was a co-author of a Lonely Planet guidebook, a trade magazine editor and a contributor to Utne Reader, as well as president of a non-profit environmental group (wetland stuff), so I would ask my fellow Wikiputlians to consider my journalistic and civic bona fides in addition to the neutral POV that I assumed in my contributions. If y'all still think I've been a shill, I respect your judgement and appreciate the chance to discuss this.

-cheers

Gary Bridgman 04:04 1 Feb 2006

Thanks for your candid reply, Gary. I think the best thing you can do to make your contributions more credible is to provide references to (preferably freely available/web available) independent studies. You are probably in the best position to find these, and given a few of those people will find it hard to argue self-promotion. Perhaps some study measuring the resistance to fire or rot. njh 19:36, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
I stumbled over this article while researching lumber treatments (i.e. while acting as merely a reader) and something felt "wrong" about the sodium silicate-related portions of this page. It appears to give that product undue weight, given its young age relative to the others and apparent lack of verifiability. The external links are to the manufacturer's site and a page on the Popular Science site which is almost certainly not editorial material (no author is shown but it's likely the vendor: an issue of lack of verifiability). From what I understand of Wikipedia's policies much of the material should be pruned. I suggest removing the questionable popsci.com link, and moving most of the remaining content (including the science fair link) to the sodium silicate page or removing it (as it provides no useful content related to timber treatment). A suggested wording for what's left: "Sodium silicate is a relatively recent treatment which preserves wood from moisture and insects and possesses some flame-resistant properties. Sodium silicate-treated lumber may be a safer alternative to both CCA and ACQ." Certainly the current last sentence shouldn't be left in without a reliable (verifiable, independent) source to back it up. I'd do this myself but as a rookie Wikipedian I don't have a good feel for when "Talk" should be turned into action. (Sorry Gary, but this is my opinion. I know your job must be tough, but I think you're using Wikipedia inappropriately to do it. Please at least dig up one truly independent, credible source. If you can't do that (as Nathan asked in February), your contributions really should be pruned heavily.) --PeterHansen 02:56, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
I have read the promotion article from TimberSIL concerning their so-called revolutionary Sodium silicate preservatives; there are several mistakes and unfathomable claims such as that: “effective even on traditionally difficult-to-treat woods, such as Douglas fir and hemlock”
To manage this, one would have to either:
  • reverse the permanent pit aspiration that takes place by spruce and Douglas fir
  • have a preservative that has a molecule size as small as H2O which would be given around three weeks to diffuse into the wood, this however is not possible and if it were than not economical.
Sodium Silicate can not be fixated in wood meaning it leaches (it slowly comes out of the wood) making it in unpractical for use outdoors or near ground lying areas. Nevertheless TimberSIL claims that one could use this for the interior side of Windows or for wood within a house. The best way to protect wood from insect or fungal attack is to keep it dry. Usually there are no high moisture levels in a house, thus making it unnecessary to treat it with chemicals.
Furthermore the link to 10th grade science project consist of a list of competitors of the ”West Springfield High School 1998 Science Fair” with no scientific data what so ever, making it useless for research.
I find it irresponsible to advertise for such unproven and untested products in such a definite language in Wikipedia. That is why I will delete the links and replace the description of Sodium silicate with an accurate description. --Lumber Jack 19:47, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Major Edit[edit]

I have added several pages worth of information about application processes, history, incising ect. ect… to this article, and would like to move it from “Timber treatment” to “Wood Preservation” as that would be a more suitable name. This information comes from my engineering diploma project “Sap displacement”. I ask those who feel comfortable with this subject to review and discuss my changes. --Lumber Jack

Excellent work, much improved both in terms of content and organization and better written as well. I don't have anything to add in terms of the actual content, where you obviously know what you are talking about. However, I believe it would benefit from a little more organization/structure work. For example, the introductory sections under under "Preservatives" and "Application processes" could be moved to the top and/or history section which is rather thin. The "hazards" section should also be close to the top, and not have its separate section. The history section should be beefed up. The introduction to the "Preservatives" and "Application processes" should give a summary overview of what follows. Let me know what you think of my suggestions before I dive in. Luigizanasi 05:04, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the Introduction doesn´t summarize anough of the content. I would be glad if you could look into that. One should also “beef up” the Introduction from Application Processes and Preservatives and the section History. If you feel fit for the task, go for it.
Organizationwise I would leave it as it is. I also have a lot of information about “Chemical wood Preservatives” but I haven’t found time to write it all down and place it in the Article.
Eventaully, I would also like to creat two new chapters, first “structaul wood preservation” (how is one supposed to build a building so that it isn´t vunerable to decay) and second “physical wood preservation” (wood treatment with e.g. pulver layers) that don´t directly have anything to do with “chemical wood preservation”
--Lumber Jack second account 18:44, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Pitch=Treatment?[edit]

This article includes a biblical reference to Noah applying pitch to the ark. I wouldn't consider this wood treatment. It's my understanding that pitch waterproofs a boat by filling cracks between wood, but the pitch isn't applied to the entire surface of the lumber and is not there to preserve the wood, so much as to preserve the buoyancy of the boat. If no one objects on this talk page in the next 2 or 3 weeks, I'm going to delete the reference. --Osbojos 05:12, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Pitch can be/was used do deter seaclamps/shells and other water dwelling species. --Lumber Jack second account 18:40, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Uncited reference[edit]

From the "Chromated copper arsenate (CCA)" section:

However some consumer outlets such as Home Depot were still reported to be selling CCA lumber long after the ban went into effect.

This should probably be cited; I've deleted it in the meantime.


The words common, modern, generally or typical are indefinite. These words are all present in the “LOSP”-posting. Indefinite terms should have no place in an Encyclopedia. That is why I will edit this posting. Hopefully future anonymous authors make serious Posting that are balanced and don’t just try to sell a product. --Lumber Jack second account 00:56, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Also for anonymous authors that prize the use of LOSP, Vacuum-Treatment is also a PRESSURE TREATMEN. --Lumber Jack second account 01:00, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Revert[edit]

Thank you for experimenting with the page Wood preservation on Wikipedia. Your test worked, and it has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you may want to do. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. A link to the edit I have reverted can be found here: link. If you believe this edit should not have been reverted, please contact me. Pcbene 01:09, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

@PCbene;
Around 60% of the article Wood preservation comes from my college diploma project. From July the 3rd until 5th of this year, I posted one chapter of my project into this article. Since then I have edited and observed this article as well as it’s German counterpart Holzschutz.


I would like to make clear that:
* MY EDITS WERE NOT AN EXPERIMENT OR A TEST.
* I AM NOT A NEWCOMER
If you have the same excessive knowledge over Wood, Lumber, Chemicals, Preservation and Construction as I do, then I am willing to discuss your revert, otherwise please except my revert of the article to the stance of my last edit.
I would advise you:
  • to research who has edited an article in the last year.
  • to discuss a revert beforehand.
  • and edit mistakes in a article before / rather than reverting.
After all, reverting is not a decision which should be taken lightly
Thank you for your understanding

Wood preservation of timber products through charring and burning.[edit]

How about an edit to include for the preservation of wood products through fire. I understand that this has been a traditional way to preserve wood, have seen it being carried out and am wanting to try it myself. I also understand that archaeologists frequently find fire has accidently preserved timber products.

Much appreciated

A Taxed Mind 19:46, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

as far as I know it has been used but is not useful. After burning, a layer of char is produced, which isn't tasty for most insects or fungi (not all are deterred), but you only need to leave a bit uncharred or the charr gets scrapped and it is as if you hadn't treated it.
--Lumber Jack second account 22:57, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree with A Taxed Mind. As far as I know charring (scorching?) was used for centuries before the advent of modern techniques, and so was incredibly useful. Timber posts were stuck into a fire and the resulting charred, pointy end was then hammered into the ground. I've done a quick search and can't find anything, unfortunately, apart from to say that I saw it used on and episode of Grand Designs last week to treat timber cladding. They used a roofing torch to toast the timber before installing it, but it certainly wasn't charred. I'd like to know more.
nagualdesign (talk) 15:39, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Fire Retardant Treated[edit]

I added the Fire Retardant Treated section in hopes that it would be expanded on. I have yet to find a good answer online. If someone could add a bit more information to the section it would be greatly appreciated. Thesi 15:38, 11 April 2007 (UTC)Thesi

Thesi there are three approaches that I know of, of how to make Wood fire retardant.
The first is the use of a chemical treament that upon higher heat turns into foam. This foam creats a protective layer over the treated would stopping it from catching fire for a certain amount of time. Eventauly the foam loses its retardant capacity and the wood catches fire. Sorry, I don't remember a chemical formula or a brand name for this but it is used often in wood used in train or subway wagons.
Second: a rough surface catches fire easier than a smooth surface, so creat a smooth surface.
The third: When wood burnes then depending on which species, density and surface it burns at a perticular speed, e.g. 1cm per hour or 3/8in per hour. However this doese not continue for ever, after a certain burning depth it stops around 4cm or bit more than 1in. The already burnt wood creats a layer protecting the unburnt wood. Imagine if you put a large piece of wood on a fire and it doesn't burn all the way. Then the next day you cut through it. Around the outsides the wood is charred and on the inside it is unscaved. This is the advantage of wood over steel, wood maintaines its carrying capacity during a fire, steel loses it over it's whole section when heated (and turns into gamma steel). Thus if the wood section is dimensioned large enogh it can still hold up a building during and after a fire.
--Lumber Jack second account 22:46, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

FEQ[edit]

All tiles in teak wood, unfinished, sanded, FEQ, KD 10-12%. I dont know what is FEQ, anyone could be explain??

Niether do I

--Lumber Jack 16:18, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

FEQ (First European Quality) is a common wood industry acronym for top quality wood. Googling the phrase +"first european quality" -"life survey" will elicit numerous references. JimScott (talk) 04:22, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Tanalisation[edit]

Hi RickBeton, I find it great that you've added some usefull information to the article, however I disagree some what with the placement of it.

The Pressure treatment described under Tanalisation fits that of the Fluctuation Pressure Process, and therefore I feel it is not a seperate process.

Chemical Preservatives fits that of Water borne / Chromat copper arsenate (CCA) I think we should put the term Tanalisation under Chromat copper arsenate (CCA)

High pressure sap displacement is a mechanised version of the Boucherie Process, and I feel it should therefore be a sub catogory of that process.

"a trade mark of Hicksons Ltd", I'm sure that Tanalisation is a "trademark" of Hicksons Ltd. but it Hicksons Ltd. is not the only company to do so, therefor I think we should take thier name out of the article. --Lumber Jack 16:18, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Osmosis process[edit]

About 80% down the page is what appears to be an orphan header:

פעס====Osmosis process====

And whatever are the first three characters? Hebrew? Paulburnett (talk) 04:36, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Wood treated with car oil[edit]

My father use to work for a compeny where thy treated there wooden doors with normal car oil. Is there some one that can tel me why cant i do it with my wooden deck. THANX Jan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.17.141.233 (talk) 08:19, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

Seems like it would make your deck flammable. I've seen creosoted railroad tie fires and they can burn for quite a while. It isn't a large fire (flame-wise) but goes and goes and goes ... and in the end nothing left but ash. As far as I know, non-latex modern deck stains and such are flammable right out of the can but lose that aspect as the flammable carrier evaporates as the stain dries. JimScott (talk) 15:51, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

What is AC2 treated lumber?[edit]

What is AC2 treated lumber? Can this info be added to the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.6.126.209 (talk) 13:47, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

hardware options[edit]

Maybe someone could research proper hardware options for use with various treated woods. JimScott (talk) 15:42, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Did the malasian sal wood for external use to be treated? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.50.154.110 (talk) 07:16, 22 January 2013 (UTC)