Talk:World Tourism rankings

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Question[edit]

i am guessing there was a mistake or a troll or something, but there is something misleading in the article. it say that saudi arabia had a whopping 43 million tourist which should put it in the top ten. is it 3.4 million or did someone decide to mess with article.

Question[edit]

So Egypt is in the Middle East, not in Africa? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.28.78.27 (talk) 21:59, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

When will the freaking 2008 data be uploaded ????!!!!?!! This still belongs to 2007! We are almost in 2010! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.70.229.121 (talk) 05:26, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Can someone please find 2008 data? This ranking is so old. —Preceding unsigned comment added by HakanGS (talkcontribs) 12:19, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Question[edit]

Why the Philippines is not included to that because so many visitors also going here ?

This list shows Greece as 12th with an inflated 21 million tourists. The source, UNWTO barometer however, does not have any data for Greece for 2007. Greece had 16M tourists in 2006, and a 5M jump in one year is not reasonable. Could this be corrected? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.234.162.222 (talk) 22:11, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

It shows Greece as 12th with 21 million tourists. The source, UNWTO barometer however, does not have any data for Greece for 2007. Similar case for Russia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.234.162.222 (talk) 22:07, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

When will this be updated with 2008 data? Could anyone access the latest WTO barometer?

The data belongs to 2007, and needs to be updated... WTO barometer published on 07/2009 has the rankings for 2008 but full access to the barometer is not free. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.35.43.248 (talk) (UTC)


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Question on Croatia[edit]

why is Croatia at 19th place with 11.2 million, when on the world tourism report it is at 8.7 million in 23rd place...it seams to be the only one that is off. It doesn't match the source...why was this done? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.209.154.72 (talk) 02:27, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

China[edit]

I'm sure China now receives a lot of visitors and indeed, up-to-date figures would presumably reflect the event of the Olympics, but do the current figures include Hong Kong and Macau as tourist arrivals, when they are sort of the same country? --81.105.251.230 (talk) 05:11, 1 January 2009 (UTC) me awsome

2009 rankings?[edit]

Where to find the 2009 rankings? --Mariotto2009 (talk) 10:12, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Article title and better sourcing[edit]

This article is currently entitled "World Tourism rankings" and cites the source — the "UNTWO World Tourism Barometer" — that first published the eponymous ranking of the article. However, the UNTWO source is incomplete as it omits several smaller countries that, despite being small, have many tourist arrivals. For example, Andorra is notable for the remarkably high number of tourist arrivals it has, both in absolute number — 10+ million tourist arrivals per annum — and on a per capita basis — the world's highest number of tourist arrivals per capita (121 in 2008). An editor recently removed Andorra from the list saying "This is a list based on one source." However, I don't think this article needs to be based on a single source, and in any event, a better article title would probably be "World tourism ranking" (note lower case) to encourage multiple sourcing. First, having multiple, independent reliable sources for any article is good per WP:V. Second, the source I cited is a reliable source per WP:RS — the Andorran Government's statistics department. Third, the source I cited is not in conflict with the UNTWO source; it adds a notable country that is otherwise omitted from the list. Adding it does not cross into WP:OR or SYNTH. I think the list would be improved if it wasn't just the UNTWO World Tourism ranking, and missing countries not mentioned by the UNTWO source were added using citations to other reliable sources. 91.187.64.100 (talk) 03:26, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Multiple articles that have lists use one source due to consistency. This is because if we use only one source, there won't be conflicts about how this group did its measurement compared to another group. Examples include Quality-of-life index, List of countries by Failed States Index and Global city (just the lists). The best example I can give about articles that uses only one source is with demographics, specifically articles dealing with metropolitan areas and urban areas. Here is the problem that arises. One editor says, this source measures unfairly compared to the next source and therefore there is an unfair comparison within the two. This is evident in articles I listed above. Going back to the metropolitan/urban areas, for example, both New York and London have equally valid and equally reliable sources that source their metropolitan/urban population, New York has the US census bureau, London has the EU statistics department (can't remember the exact name). They don't conflict with each other, both are notable, both follow the criteria of verifiability and reliability. But they measure their metropolitan areas differently. Much of the arguments with this topic is how New York's metropolitan area is measured unfairly compared to London. Due to these types of arguments, editors in the past decided that to avoid disputes between sources, it would be better to just choose one among them as the standard list. This seems to be the case here since the article uses only one source. So in some cases, it is better to use one source rather than a collection of sources. This seems to have been the consensus judging by the structure of the article. This is why I reverted it since the article was using only one source and the article was structured this way.
Also forgot to say that this will probably be my last comment until tomorrow, since for me since it's late where I am. Elockid (Talk·Contribs) 04:23, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for taking such good care of this article and for your in-depth explanation! --Funandtrvl (talk) 07:05, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for such a nice comment. :) Elockid (Talk·Contribs) 17:25, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Australia is entered twice[edit]

Australia is listed as having 21 million and 5.4 million tourists. The source pdf has them at 5.1 million, so I'll remove the 21 million figure as it is obviously wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.221.10.51 (talk) 07:29, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

This user, 115.132.84.221 vandalized the page and I reverted to version before they edited. This should be correct. Elockid (Talk·Contribs) 12:13, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Japan[edit]

Very funny. In the section International tourist arrivals by country of destination 2007, the second country is listed as Japan, which appears twice. It should be Spain. Changing now. VNNS (talk) 08:55, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I cant see INDIA anywhere, Please check the report and update it , too. Gopal Kapoor —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.74.48.85 (talk) 19:46, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Egypt[edit]

Egypt is in Africa! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.177.195.12 (talk) 21:05, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Contradictions[edit]

This article needs massive improvement: there is an arbitrary list of . Can we not replace it with the list or two of tourist destinations for all countries, each one from a single source? The international rankings for the UK and Germany (which does not appear) are contradicted by the ones for Europe. Does one include repeat tourists, and one not? What is going on? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Harsimaja (talkcontribs) 15:20, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

The info is taken from the UNWTO Tourism numbers for international tourists (see ext link). Right now, the latest survey numbers out are from Oct. 2010, thus why the figures for the 2010 table aren't yet complete. A list of tourist destinations for each country could be added to each country's Wikipedia article titled "Tourism in ....", i.e, Tourism in Germany. Those articles definitely need to be improved, but those types of lists wouldn't belong at this article, since it's only the UNWTO rankings. --Funandtrvl (talk) 17:41, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Egypt is in africa.[edit]

isn't egypt in africa? 88.64.182.125 (talk) 23:50, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Egypt is an interesting case. It's part of the core Arab world and traditionally part of the Mid-East (in fact I read that the Greeks defined it as part of "Asia"), but it is geographically mostly in Africa. Like Turkey it spans two "continents" (the Sinai's in Eurasia) with the majority of the population in one, but when the Middle East and Africa are distinguished, Egypt is often treated as part of the former. (Just as Turkey is mostly in the Mideast with a small part in Europe, but usually considered part of Europe.) —Quintucket (talk) 10:34, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Turkey[edit]

As a result, Turkey hosted a record 31,456,076 visitors in 2011. source: http://english.sabah.com.tr/Travel/2012/01/25/a-new-record-in-tourism-31456076 88.64.182.125 (talk) 23:52, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Saudi Arabia[edit]

Are these numbers for Saudi Arabia actually tourist arrivals, or do they include hajji and umrah visa holders? If the latter, I think it really merits at least a footnote, seeing as those are unique visas not available to normal tourists (Muslims who want to visit anywhere except Mecca, Medina, and Jeddah or stay longer than three days and all non-Muslims). —Quintucket (talk) 10:23, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the figures are correct. If you read the source (ref #2, p. 12), it says the Saudi Arabia experienced an unprecendented 60% jump in int'l tourist arrivals, due to efforts from the gov't to promote tourism. The UNWTO figures measure int'l tourist arrivals, across all countries. I don't think one can put a footnote by the figures for Saudi Arabia, unless you can find a WP:RS that says that was the major reason for the increase in numbers. --Funandtrvl (talk) 18:21, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

UNWTO Regions[edit]

The World Tourism Organization (UNWTO) has its own membership list divided into regions. Turkey and Israel are in Europe in this list. So there is no need to edit fight on these issues. I will install the UNWTO membership list in the right place and then correct the other editions. The fact that Israel is situated in the Middle East or Turkey is a Eurasian country has nothing to do with this discussion as the UNWTO, the universal authority on tourism has made its own regional classification as regards tourism issues. --E4024 (talk) 14:24, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

P.S. There seems to be a technical difficulty with the UNWTO official website at the moment, but the regionally classified membership list is here. --E4024 (talk) 14:28, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
I think it would be better just to remove the whole region column. It's blatantly incorrect that Israel is classified as part of Europe. These divisions compound their factual inaccuracy. Elockid (Talk) 15:20, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
Will someone please place Israel in Europe as it is where this country belongs in the UNWTO regional classification of member states. (I am not very good at those things, deleting "Asia" from the Turkey column was easy but changing the place from one module into another is beyond my abilities.) Thank you.

@Kid: Are you planning to throw Israel out from Eurovison and UEFA etc also? That is an issue of the governments/national football federations of the parties (member countries) to those organizations, not of WP editors. --E4024 (talk) 15:31, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

It's not uncommon for organizations to include exceptions. Those are examples. Another example is NATO. Though there are varying definitions of Europe and Asia, the common and practically most widely accepted both scholarly, historically, geographically, etc. are that the boundaries of Asia and Europe are around the Bosphorus, the Caucusus Mountains, and the Ural Mountains. Israel is nowhere near the vicinity of any these. The UN statistics division conforms to this. For now, I have boldy removed the regions column as I said previously. Elockid (Talk) 18:15, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
I do not know for which reasons you bring those geographical arguments but you should be aware that international organizations are autonomous in deciding their own classification of regions and members and they are not going to ask for your personal choice. In other words, when we speak about the EU or the CoE, for example, Israel is not a European country but it is so for the UNWTO and some other international organizations. We have nothing more than respecting those facts and reflecting them in WP. --E4024 (talk) 18:23, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
I am bringing them up because those are the definitions that describe Asia and Europe. Any other organization or in this case as a statistical division that says differently is factually incorrect. The UNWTO saying that Israel is in Europe is not a matter of fact, it's a matter of inaccuracy. It is not a personal choice, it is the accepted definition. Just because a source says something, that doesn't automatically mean copy then paste. Also, the reason I included the link to the UN is to show their geoscheme (the UNWTO is also part of the UN) which says that Israel is in Asia. Elockid (Talk) 19:04, 26 September 2012 (UTC)
Turkey is showing in the European region official web page of the World Tourism Organization. See,[1] and [2]. Yes; you are right,Israel is on this list.Of course, Israel is not geographically in Europe.This is a fact.That is the problem.You are approaching this topic completely "geographically".If Israel had taken place in the 10 most great holiday destination 2011,of course it will be here,acroos of the Europe.Other contradiction,please look at.. In the same article,European data, Turkey is still here not Middle East or Asia. Also,Turkey is the European region on the article of Tourism.I do not think your opinion is a logical explanation.--Maurice (talk) 16:30, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
Maurice, have a look here[3], it clearly adds Turkey in Western Asia, i agree about Russia though. Justicejayant (talk) 16:35, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Edit request - International tourism receipts[edit]

As may be seen at the "Europe" list Turkey has a tourism receipt of over USD 29 millions in 2011. As such it is (or now was, due to disruptive editing) in the Top 10 of the International tourism receipts ranking in this article. Somehow, some users changed the respective list and placed two Special Administrative Regions of China (Hong Kong and Macau) in the list while none of these two entities reach even 28 millions. Could someone correct this situation and revert the data back, please... P.D. to Elockid: In the meantime you changed the format of the page and now the situation is even more difficult for a not-very-experienced user like this scribe to correct... --E4024 (talk) 22:12, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

2012 figures are out[edit]

Can someone update everything? Thanks! http://dtxtq4w60xqpw.cloudfront.net/sites/all/files/pdf/unwto_highlights13_en_hr.pdf MarcosPassos (talk) 20:54, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Turkey's Location[edit]

UNWTO has Turkey in the Europe region. I have added the footnote "Turkey is classified as part of Europe in the UNWTO tourism rankings geolocation scheme" for clarification purposes as strictly speaking Turkey is not in Europe geographically. Opinions? 95.141.20.196 (talk) 22:57, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

This is your opinion. Turkey is part of Europe geographically and politically. This is available in many official and unofficial sources. It's located in European continent with East Thrace and politically member of Council of Europe and offical candidate and negotiator country of European Union. These facts can not be denied. I put the note on the table of "International tourist arrivals by country of destination 2011". Best Gegards. -- Maurice (talk) 00:08, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

About the edit, thats fine. About Turkey being in Europe there is no doubt that it is NOT geographically part of Europe besides a small part west of Bosporus. Not religiously or culturally or anything. Being a candidate country for the EU does not imply being in Europe as there are other countries in the EU strictly speaking not geographically in Europe. The fact that Turkey as a country is definitely not part of Europe follows from the division of continents as landmasses and you could read about it anywhere. -- 95.141.20.196 (talk) 00:23, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Edit Request - Some percentages are wrong[edit]

Some percentages are wrong. I mean, Egypt received 9.4 million tourists in 2011 and 14.0 million in 2010, and it says there that it had an "increase" of +32.4%. Yemen and a couple others are wrong too. Thanks. MarcosPassos (talk) 00:10, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Sorry. It's my fault. I have seen minus instead of plus. Now I'm gonna look at rankings and fix mistakes. Thank you for your attention. Maurice (talk) 10:52, 25 July 2013 (UTC)