Talk:Xiomara Castro

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
WikiProject Biography (Rated Start-class)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 
WikiProject Central America (Rated Start-class, Low-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Central America, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Central America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
Start-Class article Start  This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Low  This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

What is Xiomora's birth name?[edit]

Xiomora's birth name is given in the Infobox as "Xiomara Castro de Zelaya", but i'd guess that is her married name. Her parents are listed as Olga Doris Sarmiento Montoya and Irene Castro Reyes. Dfoxvog (talk) 11:21, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

She has a degree but there is no record anywhere?[edit]

I thought that wikipedia was all about facts. What kind of fact it is when the "fact" itself states it has no proof? Wikihonduras (talk) 13:15, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Children names[edit]

I believe our WP:BLP policy means not publishing the names of her unnotable children, they need to be notable in their own right first. Her more notable husband's infobox doesnt mention them.♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 01:33, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure I agree with you on that interpretation of the BLP policy. Can you link to the part that addresses that? -- Irn (talk) 03:43, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
Try BLPPRIVACY or we can take it to Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard‎ to get a 3rd opinion. These ppl are entiteld to privacy, and their parents being famous is absolutely not a reason to disregard that as there is no evidence of notability or desire for such in any of them♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 23:35, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
What part of WP:BLPPRIVACY are you interpreting that way? I don't see anything that supports your assertion. I don't think WP:BLPN is the appropriate venue for a third opinion. Rather, perhaps you should try WP:3O. -- Irn (talk) 00:04, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
No, no, the BLP board is the place to go if you dispute this, not anywhere else as its where ppl who are experts on BLP hang out and BLPPRIVACY is clear enough, IMO. Why do you think the names of her unnotable children SHOULD be included, how does this improve the article, and why is it required? Remeber just because we can source something doesnt mean we do. BTW Zelaaya's arch enemy Roberto Micheletti' daughter was shot at this week (we only mention the number of kids at that article), probably an attempted murder so there is a real risk of crime here, which is mentioned in PRIVACY though I think that is merely part of why we mustn't include these children's names, the main reason is to respect their privacy as they arent notable. Also the ref doesnt make it clear whether any of the kids are minors which if they are would be even worse. Its not okay to add the names of unnotable minors to wikipedia so even if you could persuade the BLP noticeboard to include these names you would need to prove that none of them are minors. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 00:42, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
Regarding WP:BLPN, it looks like that's one more area where we disagree because I just don't see how this resembles a case "where editors are repeatedly adding defamatory or libelous material to articles about living people over an extended period." But if you do post it there, please do include a link to this talk page. But you still have not specified what part of the BLP policy it is that you are referring to. I would really appreciate it if you could quote the exact text that you think applies because I just don't see it.
You've mentioned WP:BLPPRIVACY twice, so I'll address that. BLPPRIVACY explicitly refers to full names and dates of birth. That's not what we're dealing with here. Further, all of this information has been published "by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object." I really just don't see how this part of the policy applies to this situation.
As for their safety, I do see that as a legitimate concern. Given the level of violence in the country (especially the violence directed against Libre), the profile of both Mel and Xiomara, and what Libre represents, I absolutely think that they are potential targets (especially La Pichu, because she's been so outspoken), and while it would be tragic, I would not be surprised to hear of an assassination attempt, like that on [name redacted] Micheletti. However, I don't think that putting their names on the English Wikipedia increases their level of risk. As they are often the subjects of news reports themselves, their names are widely available in the Honduran press [1][2][3][4]. Further, as the children of an ex-president and current presidential candidate, it's absurd to think that they have any expectation of their names remaining private: their names appear in Libre literature and in Xiomara's official bio (and everywhere it's reproduced), and she's only a candidate. Look at the US, Malia and Sasha have paragraphs about them. And they are minors who are certainly not notable in their own right. -- Irn (talk) 03:40, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
You specifically have given their full names, ie xxxx Zelaya Castro. You have also taken info from an obscure Spanish speaking Honduran website and introduced it to a high profile website in English, that is a huge dissemination of information. You may be of the opinion that no attempts will be made on the lives of her children as a result of this but that is a risk you can take personally (in a blog etc) but wikipedia should not take that risk based on your judgement alone. You haven't addressed the minor issue in any kind of an adequate way, Obama is a far better known individual in the world and his children are well protected and have multiple worldwide reliable sources about them which you are unable to produce with her children, just one obscure Honduras ref in Spanish which you want to disseminate to a much wider and English speaking audience. And you havent even attempted to tell me why the article requires this info, I can see why that would be the case with Obama, and we know lots about his kids, all you are doing is publishing the names of her children with no context whatsoever. If we keep disagreeing we simply go to the BLP board, though♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 15:43, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
At this point, I would post this at WP:3O, but since you have said that you are opposed to that, I will leave it to you to post it at WP:BLPN. -- Irn (talk) 15:53, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
I would rather you first explain why we need this information in the article, I have asked twice and you still havent explained this even in the most minimal way, and that explanation needs to be expounded here not elsewhere. As you say, we have enough info on Obama's kids to give them a paragraph whereas ALL we have here is names, solely published in a foreign language in the press of a small, not well known developing country. How will those names improve the article? ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 17:54, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
Why do you think that you get to dictate the terms of this discussion and determine where this conversation goes and when? And why is it acceptable for you to ignore my questions and then demand that I answer yours? You mentioned taking this to WP:BLPN for a third opinion three posts in a row, but now you refuse to do so unless I answer your question. At the same time, you're telling me not to turn to WP:3O for a third opinion? I'm trying to work with you here, but you're making it awful difficult.
What you claim above ("ALL we have here is names" and "taken info from an obscure Spanish speaking Honduran website") is patently false. Look at the links I provided. We have way more information about them than merely their names. Indeed, all four of Xiomara's children have actually made the news in their own right for their own actions and not merely for being the children of a president. That is far more than either Malia or Sasha. Xiomara's bio is available on her official website and is widely reproduced on the web, not just some obscure website. (Why do you mention that Honduras is a "small, not well known developing country" that speaks a language different from the one we are using? I don't see the relevance of that at all.)
I should add that you added "Zelaya Castro" here; that was not present in the article. Only their first names. (And I think you're misreading/misapplying that, anyway. See my comment above.)
And, to answer your question, it makes the article more complete, just like having the names of her parents. That, in itself, ought to suffice, as it did for the wife and minor children of Barack Obama when he was merely a Senate candidate in 2004[5] and as it does in hundreds of articles across Wikipedia that reference people who aren't notable enough for their own articles. However, in this particular case, there's enough information in reliable sources to start an article on La Pichu, and to list just one name doesn't make sense. -- Irn (talk) 21:24, 9 November 2013 (UTC)
Its not me its the BLP policy which is dictating this discussion, you seem remarkably ill-informed about it for a regular editor but I have been on the ball with this policies for years. If you think the children are notable write articles for them and see if they get afd'd. And if it turns out one of the 4 children has notability we can include that name, it would hardly be the first time that has happened on wikipedia, indeed it happens a lot. If you dont see the relevance of taking info from the local press of a small, developing non-English speaking country and putting it into the English wikipedia I certainly do when we are talking BLP vio. Certainly when I have gone to the BLP board complaining about the names of unnotable children of someone famous the consensus has been to remove the names, simple as that, ppl without notability have a right to have anonymity. Given the clear crime risk here I find your contuining to want to add these names both baffling and exasperating and I dont agree that it in any way improves the article though it may be putting lives at risk, and lives of possible minors at that as we know that in the eyes of some criminals the children of Honduran leaders are legitimate targets, as we have seen this very week. ♫ SqueakBox talk contribs 20:58, 10 November 2013 (UTC)