Talk:Yahweh

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
          This article is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject Ancient Near East (Rated B-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ancient Near East, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ancient Near East related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Judaism (Rated B-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Judaism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Judaism-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Christianity / Witnesses (Rated B-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by WikiProject Jehovah's Witnesses (marked as Mid-importance).
 
WikiProject Religion / Interfaith (Rated B-class, High-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 High  This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by Interfaith work group.
 
WikiProject Jewish history (Rated B-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jewish history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Jewish history on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
 
WikiProject Israel (Rated B-class, Mid-importance)
WikiProject icon This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
B-Class article B  This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Mid  This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

Wikipedia:Manual of Style (lead section)[edit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS:BOLDTITLE#Format_of_the_first_sentence

The lead section (also known as the introduction, lead, or lede[1]) of a Wikipedia article is the section before the table of contents and the first heading. The lead serves both as an introduction to the article and as a summary of its most important aspects.

The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview of the article. It should define the topic, establish context, explain why the subject is interesting or notable, and summarize the most important points— including any prominent controversies. The emphasis given to material in the lead should roughly reflect its importance to the topic, according to reliable, published sources, and the notability of the article's subject should usually be established in the first few sentences.

While consideration should be given to creating interest in reading more of the article, the lead nonetheless should not "tease" the reader by hinting at—but not explaining—important facts that will appear later in the article. The lead should contain no more than four paragraphs, must be carefully sourced as appropriate, and should be written in a clear, accessible style with a neutral point of view to invite a reading of the full article.

In Phoenician[edit]

According to Princeton.edu and the Online Phoenician Dictionary the word 𐤀𐤋 is related to El, not Yahweh. I will remove it from the lead section. --Omnipaedista (talk) 20:11, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

RfC on replacement of Yahweh with YHWH[edit]

At Talk:Israelites#RFC: :Should "God" and "Yahweh" be replaced by "YHWH"? Dougweller (talk) 08:26, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Withdrawn. Editor who created the problem topic banned. Dougweller (talk) 06:08, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Yahweh the volcano god[edit]

Okay, but if the Talk page keeps beeping on the Watchlist that is not much better. I think at this point you're right that WP:SHUN / Wikipedia:Deny recognition is worth trying. The link to Othmar Keel might justify a single mention of volcanic imagery in the Psalms, but the copyedit would need to be done by an editor who can keep things in perspective. In ictu oculi (talk) 04:44, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
this, Eerdmans Commentary on the Bible ed. James D. G. Dunn p379, would be a better source than Keel for Psalm 18:7-8,15 resembling Exodus 19:16-18. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:03, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
For the record, I have no problem with including a section on Yahwist theophanies with a bit focused on volcanoes (IIRC, J theophanies also include the Burning bush, and God going around in some unspecified anthropomorphic form, such as when He - seemingly drunk - barged in on Moses and beat him up until someone tossed a foreskin at Him) (The Yahwist parts are so damn fun to read), and wouldn't mind due weight toward the totality of Freud's views (Campbell is the best citation I have near immediate access to, Rice's "Freud and Moses" would probably be better). Ian.thomson (talk) 15:27, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
@Ian.thomson:, would you mind just taking a look at Talk:Moses_and_Monotheism#reception_and_significance. Is it the IP the same user? In ictu oculi (talk) 04:22, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
I knew we had this problem years ago, and I looked it up. Is this the same guy as in Talk:Yahweh/Archive 5#Yahweh the Volcano God? He didn't make any article edits at that time. Elizium23 (talk) 06:00, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
 Confirmed -  It sounds like a duck quacking into a megaphone to me. If he pops up again let's SPI him. Elizium23 (talk) 00:53, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

Asherah as Yahweh's consort[edit]

I'm finding some bias here. There are portions of the article that discuss the wide range of opinions of various scholars, yet some portions of the article appear to be definitive in conclusion.

E.g. "and Asherah (who is thought by some scholars to have been his consort)" [2nd Paragraph], which is later followed by a conclusive "El was the head of the Canaanite pantheon, with Asherah as his consort and Baal and other deities making up the pantheon". Is Asherah supposed to be the consort of El or Yahweh?

The original statement states 'some scholars' whereas the reference for Asherah as Yahweh's consort is only one source and one 'scholar' - Mark S. Smith(footnote reference). This appears to be biased or a generalization based one one source. Also, the article does not deal with the issue of the early historicity of Shema[1] (Deut. 6:4) and the singular reference to God in Job (1:6). Job is thought by some to be the earliest book written in the Biblical canon.

The article also doesn't deal with the criticism or scholarly debate regarding the historicity or veracity of the Asherah consort claims. It remains to be seen whether Asherah was actually the consort of Yahweh, or simply practised by those in deviancy from the Jewish norm.

"Yahweh and Baal at first co-existed and later competed within the popular religion." This appears to be in debate. And it is best to present both points of view in order to avoid bias.

Since the account of Job(1:6,2:1) clearly discusses a one God paradigm, this could suggest that the Asherah figures were late deviations from the original religion practised by the early Israelites. It's evident in Job's account that Yahweh is God rather than one of the gods(1:6,2:1). In this view, the one God hypothesis could well predate the scribes of Isaiah. Isaiah 43-44 discuss the difficulty of Yahweh co-existing with any other God, and the estimates for Isaiah's composition are 8th BCE [2]. Yet early in the Biblical account, Rachel safeguards idols or household gods (Genesis 31:19,34-35 cf. 35:1-4) and yet Jacob obeys Yahweh soon thereafter buries the idols. It appears that from the beginning Yahweh did not tolerate the worship of other competitors.

If Asherah is to be considered as Yahweh's consort, there must be historical evidence to support this pattern as normative rather than a syncretistical religion practised by sectors of Judaistic religion. Also, there appears to be an absence of multiple scholars who can confirm this was practised by early Judaists rather than a late(8th or 9th Century BCE - Gilmour, p.90) corruption of the religion.

Lastly, another scholar disputes the interpretation of the significant find "Kuntillet ‘Ajrud"[3] find as representative of Yahweh and Asherah. Rather, the reference could be to the Egyptian God 'Bes' or other deities.

References. Hadley, Judith M. (June 2000). The Cult of Asherah in Ancient Israel and Judah: Evidence for a Hebrew Goddess. Massachusetts: Cambridge University Press. pp. 26–27. 

Gilmour, Garth (July 2009). "An Iron Age II pictorial inscription from Jerusalem illustrating Yahweh and Asherah". Palestine Exploration Quarterly 141 (2): 87–103. 

Meshel, Ze'ev. "Kuntillet ‘Ajrud: An Iron Age II Religious Site on the Judah-Sinai Border". Retrieved 29 September 2014. 

As this is my first talk, if there are formatting errors, please let me know. JohnRajendra (talk) 06:58, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

References
Read WP:OR. You don't make the call, reputed scholars do.

Between the 10th century and the beginning of their exile in 586 there was polytheism as normal religion all throughout Israel; only afterwards things begin to change and very slowly they begin to change. I would say it is only correct for the last centuries, maybe only from the period of the Maccabees, that means the second century BC, so in the time of Jesus of Nazareth it is true, but for the time before it, it is not true.

—prof. Herbert Niehr, Bible's Buried Secrets, Did God have A Wife, BBC, 2011.
Quoted by Tgeorgescu (talk) 00:39, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
See also Talk:Omri#More prominent Omride theory. Tgeorgescu (talk) 01:08, 1 October 2014 (UTC)