Talk:Yiddish dialects

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Separation[edit]

This article should be split into Yiddish dialects and Yiddish phonology. Both deserve separate treatment.

Peter Isotalo 09:37, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

This is the last of the "Yiddish this and that" artilces that have been split off from the article on Yiddish language. There is, however, a clearer relationship between dialectology and phonology than, for example, between the twinned topics in the last article that was split — Yiddish orthography and Yiddish typography. Dialectic variation is described in phonological terms, and the phonology of a language cannot be described without consideration of its dialects.
I've been doing most of the migration into the separate articles and can easily enough finish the job by splittling the present one. I have some additional material about dialectology that I've been trying to find time to put into the article, and this would provide a good reason for finally doing so. There's little that I can do with what will then be a rather narrow article on phonology, beyond noting that the topic requires a lot more than a description of Modern Standard Yiddish. Is there anyone who would be willing and able to develop it? Pending a positive response, I don't see that there's any hurry in splitting the seed text off from the present article. As an alternative, the new article could be titled "Modern Standard Yiddish Phonology", but it would then have to be retitled if and when it is expanded. --futhark 15:16, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't see a problem with having an article called Yiddish phonology whose subject is only Modern Standard Yiddish ("YIVO Yiddish"), since that's the variety most people will be familiar with. There's no reason to give it a more specific name. The phonological differences among the dialects can be discussed on the dialectology page. Another option -- the one I ultimately went with for the Irish dialects, is to have a separate article on each dialect, where all the features of that dialect can be discussed. I originally had an article Irish dialects where the differences among the dialects and between them and the standard was laid out, but now I have three more unified articles Ulster Irish, Connacht Irish, and Munster Irish, where the dialects are described, as well as Irish phonology, which is a more general overview of what might be called "Standard Irish" phonology. Perhaps a similar solution would work well for Yiddish. User:Angr 18:58, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
I've now split the article into Yiddish dialects and Yiddish phonology. --futhark 08:12, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Just to second Angr's post, the most common practice so far has been to assume that all phonologies to be about the modern varieties, which is the most reasonable approach both from the point of view of the speakers and that of linguistics. Articles on older forms of languages are the ones who get alternative names. For example, Old English phonology or Ancient Greek phonology rather than English phonology or Greek phonology (currently a redirect).
Peter Isotalo 10:57, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
Modern Standard Yiddish did not naturallly evolve from an array of older dialects, nor is it the most widespread present form of the language. It is a construct based on the smallest of the candidate dialects that figured in what remains a controversial ad hoc normative action. An article on OId Yiddish could certainly be useful, but would likely not be of primary relevance to a discussion of the phonological variation among contemporary Yiddish dialects. --futhark 06:54, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Possible splitting?[edit]

I think it would be prudent to split this article into seperate ones for Eastern and Western Yiddish, possibly with seperate articles for Poylish, Ukranish, Litvish, and American Yiddish. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by CharlesMartel (talkcontribs) 19:33, 11 February 2007 (UTC).

According to the ISO-639-3 there are two languages, Eastern and Western Yiddish. The consequence is that Yiddish is considered to be a macro language consisting of two languages and yes it makes sense when following the standard to discuss them separately. GerardM (talk) 11:29, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

SY as mother tongue[edit]

"it may be noted that modern Standard Yiddish is not used by mother-tongue speakers": I very much like your article and agree with the thrust of this statement and the paragraph that includes it; however, it is factually incorrect. I would change to ". . . used by very few mother-tongue speakers." Zackarysholemberger 05:13, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Never with exceptions[edit]

The passage "omething which, with the exception of regulation in the Soviet Union, has never applied to Yiddish" יז רעסיר רידיכיאלאס! never with an exception is not never! it שould be changed.84.167.255.232 23:26, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Phonology[edit]

This article is supposed to be the place to find information about the differences between the various Yiddish dialects; the biggest amount of variation is in the phonology, but --- apart from some generalisations in the well-known Birnbaum quote --- there is not an iota of phonological information here. I could supply some (someday), but mostly from the perspective of the "Central" (Polish-Galician) variety. Any other ideas? Jakob37 04:25, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

You might want to take a look at the article on Yiddish phonology. The need for its expansion to be fully descriptive of the phonological attributes of at least the three major Eastern dialects has long been noted, as well as the fact that this would require a good deal of both knowledge and time from an author who has yet to come forward. There has also been extensive discussion about whether the resulting material ought or ought not to be merged with the present article — something which cannot really be determined until the additional material is actually at hand. --Futhark|Talk 05:14, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
This article needs to include descriptions of what the differences between the dialects are, whether it be phonological, morpholical, syntactic, or lexical. It can't just say "there are differences" and then not give any indication what they are! -Branddobbe (talk) 07:46, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


What's it called?[edit]

"There is also a distinctive Hungarian-Yiddish dialect that is widely spoken by hasidim from the areas of the former Austro-Hungarian Empire that were not absorbed by the Soviet Union after World War II."

What's it called? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.81.168.142 (talk) 21:33, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

This may or may not help: Dovid Katz's "The Phonology of Ashkenazic" (Hebrew in Ashkenaz - a Language in Exile , ed. by Lewis Glinert, Oxford U.Press, 1993)p.48 mentions a "Southern Transitional Yiddish = Transcarpathian Yiddish, also cf. his article in Besch, W. et al.eds. Dialektologie. Ein Handbuch zur deutschen und allgemeinen Dialektforschung. Berlin & New York: Walter de Gruyter, 1983).Jakob37 (talk) 15:38, 6 October 2009 (UTC)