Talk:Yule Marble

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VfD 2005[edit]

Article has been kept following this VFD debate. Sjakkalle (Check!) 14:27, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Undertaking a major rewrite of this article[edit]

to include regroup of existing data, corrections, new data and citation of sources. I am the museum director, in Marble, Colorado. Also, over the last three summers, I have had regular contact with the quarry vice president. OneHistoryGuy (talk) 20:17, 11 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Less than 1% of the original text remains OneHistoryGuy (talk) 07:09, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Structuring of the article sections is complete and the text rewrite is finished. There probably will some inclusions of a few more details but will be within the existing article sections. Each section will be gone through for grammar and writing style. A few more citations are needed.

Once the aforementioned is finished will be ready for review for article rating OneHistoryGuy (talk) 21:35, 14 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Onehistoryguy, I noticed on Gingko100's page that you are the Director of the museum in Marble CO. I just wanted to check a few things: 1) Is the text used in this article used in materials at the museum? 2) Do you plan on using the text in this article in future materials at the museum? If the answer to either of those is "Yes" then you might want to contact the good people at Wikipedia:OTRS_noticeboard. There is a confidential method that you can use to validate your identity and ensure Wikipedia that we have permission to use this material. If you don't do that, then there is a SLIM chance that this article might someday get deleted as a copyvio. The risk would be that somebody visited the museum, saw the published materials that matched what is here, and the assumption was made that the person who wrote this article simply copied materials from the museum. By contacting the OTRS people, you would let them know that you are in fact the director at the Museum and that any future similarities are a result of your using the same info twice but that Wikipedia has the appropriate permission to do so.
Also, keep in mind that this is an encyclopedia. So, 1) consider the tone---there were some places where the article read as a museum display rather than an encyclopedia. 2) Be mindful of conflicts of interest. COI doesn't say that you can't work on an article, just be conscious that your personal biases COULD interfere with objectivity. I didn't note any major issues when I skimmed the article, but do be mindful of that concern.---Balloonman Poppa Balloon 19:24, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Balloonman. Thanks for looking the article but also for the above Wikipedia administrative matters. I havr not used any text of an article section in my museum work or vice versa. I have used some very small parts here and there from my museum work as generic facts (dates, places, names, quantities etc) which is only natural. The upshot is no one who comes to the museum will find any displayed text that could be remotely seen as a duplicate of what I used in this Wiki article.
I have intentionally used some stepped-in outline format rather than a flowing narrative (ie overview of the integrated quarry, quarry operators since 1988) for better comprehension is given to the reader in this form instead of a flowing narrative. Could you post a rewrite of a outline into a narrative? I would like to see for maybe I can do the same for the rest.
I am not aware of any bias for I have not offered any opinions of derived conclusions. I still have more citations to add. OneHistoryGuy (talk) 01:15, 16 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

13 photographs added[edit]

13 photos have been added of which 12 are from the collection of the Marble Historical Society OneHistoryGuy (talk) 07:34, 16 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Removing step- outlines and some "Bold[edit]

After a post by Balloonman, I looked over my use of step-outline with bold and found I can change most (but not all) to narrative. Some have been changed OneHistoryGuy (talk) 09:51, 16 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Completed removal of outline step-in OneHistoryGuy (talk) 20:14, 16 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Rewrite is complete[edit]

I asked if any editor is following this article to conduct an edit review OneHistoryGuy (talk) 19:56, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How well linked is this article?[edit]

Is it a WP:Orphan? Not literally an orphan, but not real well linked, either.

Can we think of more links internally and in other articles? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 04:06, 20 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I will give some more thought what linkage can be made. I did search for names of people and nearby towns finding a few wiki articles that I did link to. I avoided wiki links to countries and even cities for they are to broad in scope. Maybe there is something in geology type articles. I can add some more buildings using Yule marble throughout the article but first I need to find if there is a wiki article. I will then place a wiki link in the building to yule marble. Yule marble is a narrow subject. — Preceding unsigned comment added by OneHistoryGuy (talk • contribs) 01:31, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
We need linkage. (Pardon me for being an officious intermeddler). One of the greatest things about Wikipedia is the links. We are part of a much greater work, and need to connect to and from it. This will increase traffic, and make all of this a better experience for the [knowledgable] readers. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 01:36, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Your are not intermeddler at all. Still new to this aspect, I welcome and need the help. I don't have a good feel where in the article to make more wiki links. So please make what ever wiki links you feel are needed. OneHistoryGuy (talk) 05:28, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

 Done 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:11, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I did this very crudely. Just put it in the "See also" section of a lot of buildings. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:30, 17 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

File:YuleMarbleQuarry1914alt1.jpg[edit]

Could you add ID's to the caption for the features labeled 1, 2 & 3? Thanks, Pete Tillman (talk) 05:54, 20 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Caption added. There are the three producing quarries OneHistoryGuy (talk) 01:05, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Edifices where the marble was used[edit]

I noted in the Tennessee marble is had several sections. Maybe this should be added here. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:14, 20 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I like the idea and I will create a table of them by state. There are 111 known structures. Should I include all 111? I do have a link to the list I placed in Commons OneHistoryGuy (talk) 01:12, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
There is no limit. Maybe just the more important ones (and by important, I include all the ones that have Wikipedia articles). If it doesn't have an article, it certainly needs a reference, and even if it has an article, a reference that says it's "Yule Marble" would be good. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 01:21, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I will include the 111 buildings as section article. I have the dates when the structures went up and if they still exist. OneHistoryGuy (talk) 05:35, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sculptural use[edit]

When I googled Yule Marble, I got a lot of pictures of sculptures. Obviously, there are a lot of sculptors who have found this material to fit their needs and inspire their creation. Materials can affect the creative processes, and make the juices flow. This is a whole 'nother dimension to the mine. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 01:23, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Marble of Institute of Colorado holds an annual marble carver symposium, in Marble. There is also a website, Franciscos (?) with carving done with Yule marble. I can come up with some others but these are commercial businesses. Are websites that sell Yule marble sculptures permissible? OneHistoryGuy (talk) 05:31, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

computer going to the shop 21 Nov[edit]

My internet searching links are being redirected and I have not been able to remove the redirect code. Taking the computer into the shop Monday morning OneHistoryGuy (talk) 05:42, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like a trojan or virus. When I've encountered something really persistent like that, I have found use of Norton GoBack (if it is still available, and will work on your operating system) to be a good route. That won't help you now, but it might in the future. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:11, 21 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

File:TousRepairSep2011.jpg Nominated for Deletion[edit]

An image used in this article, File:TousRepairSep2011.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 21 November 2011
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Is this a typo?[edit]

American Marble & Title Co. Should it be Tile? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:38, 23 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hurst mansion San Jose. Should it be Hearst Castle in San Simeon? My research is otherwise drawing a blank. You spelled it like Hurst shifters, which doesn't fit the time frame. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:42, 23 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
 Done
Irvine Sarcophagus. Could this be Thomas Starr King's sarcophagus, which is listed on the NHRP? photo See List of California Historical Landmarks. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:47, 23 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Barth Mausoleum, Denver. Could this be Brigadier General Charles H. Barth at the Leavenworth National Cemetery? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:53, 23 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Pasadena Forest Lawn Chapel & Crematory Trying to Link to a Forest Lawn Cemetery, but I am finding lots min Wikipedia (with impressive buildings and pictures), but not in Pasadena. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:56, 23 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Denver Chessman Memorial. Do you mean Cheesman Memorial? See here. I made this change. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 19:26, 23 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
 Done

Cathedral Basilica of the Immaculate Conception, Denver. That article says Indiana Limestone and Gunnison Granite. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:55, 23 November 2011 (UTC)  Done[reply]

I am simply trying to correctly identify the listings under structures. I am depending on Onehistoryguy (and whatever source he used for the table) for the identification. I would also suggest that we need to put in a footnote ("alpha") that identifies the source for that whole table, and the statement that Yule Marble was used in those structures. The footnotes I have been adding do not mention Yule Marble, but do identify what I deem to be a likely structure, and provide some information about them. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:08, 24 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
All items in the table came from the book by Oscar McCollum. A scan of the table (directly from his book) is in Commons and is cited. I did find a internet link to a Barth Mausoleum in a cemetery in Denver but I did not find the mausoleum. I never found the Irvine Sarcophagus. Where in the Basilica the marble was used is unknown. It is possible the use might have been for objects with the structure, such as a font. Chessman instead of Cheesman was a finger flub. OneHistoryGuy (talk) 07:09, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thatcher Memorial[edit]

Thatcher Memorial - Denver, COin Smithsonian Art Inventory SculpturesPosted by: Outspoken1N 39° 44.691 W 104° 57.41013S E 503698 N 4399439Quick Description: Impressive Is this it? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 00:19, 24 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

for the record - or perhaps this is better said off the record, I am about 2/3 way through writing an article on the Thatcher Memorial. This is a bit more good info to use. Thanks all. Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 03:07, 24 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
However I just searched the Waymarking link and the SIRIS link and found no mention of Yule Marble. Any other ideas? Carptrash (talk) 03:12, 24 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't say that that Thatcher waymarking page said anything about Yule Marble. I was simply trying to identify a site that shed some light on the possible identification of the listing. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:48, 24 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The link at the top is the the Thatcher structure, which a a marble burial vault. I do have a photograph that I will upload OneHistoryGuy (talk) 06:34, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The link at the top IS NOT the Thatcher item in the article list (fumble fingers on the keyboard). Thatcher structure is a burial vault. I will upload a photo OneHistoryGuy (talk) 06:38, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Greeley County Courthouse (Nebraska)[edit]

The Greeley County Courthouse in Greeley, Nebraska is on the list of buildings using Yule marble. Three sources are given. One is to a Wikimedia Commons category containing photos of the courthouse. One is to a Nebraska State Historical Society website. The third doesn't provide a link, but appears to refer to the National Register of Historic Places nominating form for the courthouse, which is available through a link on the NSHS website cited. The first two sources definitely don't mention Yule marble. I scanned the third (the nominating form) and didn't find it mentioned there either, although it's a longer source and I might have overlooked it. Could the editor who inserted the courthouse point to the mention of Yule marble in the nom form, or supply another source that supports the inclusion of the courthouse on the list? If not, I think it ought to be removed. Ammodramus (talk) 22:54, 29 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Greeley County Courthouse is listed as containing Yule Marble on the initial listings of structures and the sources. See footnotes [4] [34]. There is no wikipedia article on the courthouse specifically, but you are invited to create one. Your evident interest in Nebraska history would be satisfied in doing that, I hope. These provide context and some understanding as to what this building was (historically, culturally, architecturally). The absence of an article and sources on these buildings makes a simple listing almost meaningless for our readers. That they don't mention QUOTE Yule Marble UNQUOTE does not diminish their worth. That would be true of a lot of the references in this article. So while I appreciate what you think and your viewpoint, I think to the contrary.
However, if you want to cite to footnotes [4] and [34] too, that would certainly be appropriate, and I concur with that. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:30, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I couldn't check source [4], but source [34] supports the inclusion of the courthouse. I've removed the three citations on the courthouse itself, since they don't support the Yule-marble assertion. Unfortunately, I didn't get any interior shots when I photographed the building; the exterior is all brick, with no marble that I can see. If we had some interior shots showing actual marble, the Commons category might be valid as a see-also link. I'll try to remedy that the next time I find myself in Greeley.
Regrettably, I don't know enough about architecture to write a decent article on the courthouse; there'd have to be an architecture section, and if I wrote it I'd have to parrot from the nom form, without the knowledge to spot possible errors. Ammodramus (talk) 14:20, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I put it back in as a footnote, not an endnote. I also put in endnotes that are to footnotes 4 and 34, since you could not find them. Sorry that you can't see the benefit of inclusion. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 14:28, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The lettered footnote is OK; I've added some explanatory detail to it, to help readers decide whether or not they want to go to the Commons category or the NRHS nom form. I've removed the Perazzo and McCollum footnotes for the courthouse, since they're cited at the top of the list as authorities for the whole list. My problem with the numbered footnotes after the courthouse was that they appeared to be the authorities for its inclusion on the list. I've fixed the link to the nom form, and removed the NRHP-in-Greeley-County link, since that didn't contain any information about marble in the building (and all the info in it is in the nom form). Ammodramus (talk) 14:53, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Broken what?[edit]

Looking through the section on Nebraska structures using Yule marble, I find the I.O.O.F. Building in "Broken Arrow, Nebraska". To the best of my knowledge, there is no Broken Arrow in Nebraska. There is, however, Broken Bow, Nebraska; and that city has an Odd Fellows hall, now the Tiffany Theater, whose exterior appears to be mostly brick but might incorporate some marble (it's hard for me to tell from the photos). Unfortunately, "Broken Arrow" is what's given on the Perazzo website, so I'm loath to make a correction that comes close to being OR. Is there another source, e.g. McCollum, that might be used to check and correct this? Ammodramus (talk) 15:34, 30 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Broken Bow is the correct location. I have had telephone conversation with the president of the bank in Broken Bow who owns the building and he said there is marble on the inside. I know this does not meet the Wiki standard of verify. This is where I am lost in the wiki editing as well as formating an citation. I am glad that others who know what needs to be done are doing so. OneHistoryGuy (talk) 06:43, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The converstion was back in April 2001. Prior, I talked with a surviving member of IOOF about the building OneHistoryGuy (talk) 06:56, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sources[edit]

There are 75 sources. A lot of them don't mention "Yule marble" in haec verba, but other sources at the beginning do. We can put in every one of those sources and repeat them ad nauseum. In fact, I think that's a good project for you. As to the sources that you are blithely removing, they provide context, and describe the buildings in which Yule Marble was used. Which other buildings do you think they might be? We can do this for all 75 sources, and do it the hard way. Or we can arrive at a consensus. Take your pick. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:51, 8 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

By all means, let's go for consensus. I thought we'd reached it in our exchange of edits over the Greeley County, Nebraska courthouse: use an explanatory footnote to direct readers to other sources concerning the building in question, written and formatted in a way that makes it clear that it's not a citation to support the building's inclusion in the list. My objection to the inclusion of the footnotes re. the Evans Hotel is the same one that I had to similar footnotes re. the Greeley courthouse: that without some kind of formatting or explanatory text to distinguish them from citations, they appeared to be intended as citations. Ammodramus (talk) 01:00, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
WP:AGF. I don't mean to be snappish. However, putting in relevant sources is what I have done. I do not want an edit war, nor do I want to have to argue over every one of these citations. That they don't say "Yule marble" is true. The other two omnibus list sources say that these buildings had Yule Marble. But these specific sources are pertinent, pertain to these buildings, and provide context that orient the readers -- this is especially important on those edifices that do not have articles. I mean no disrespect, but arguing about every citation is going to make for a lot of nonproductive activity. We went through the drill on the Nebraska articles. I had hoped that would make you happy. If you want to add to each of these that they don't say "Yule marble" in their article, that is OK. If you want to create explanatory footnotes (as in Greeley), I think that can be done. Please do, but don't remove the references. I just don't share your view, don't see the need, and have no great enthusiasm for doing this work to carry our your vision. But I am not taking any position that you can't implement the Greeley solution on the whole article.
You are about to WP:3RR, and I'm sure that would be unintended. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 01:06, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Good solution!! 7&6=thirteen (☎) 02:52, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I have been following this.....trying to anyway. This is beyond my skill level. What ever is worked out is great by me OneHistoryGuy (talk) 06:24, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cambridge Building New York[edit]

Not a good source, but this flickr page could very well be the building. It has the look. Not adding this to the article, but am providing it as a 'crumb on the trail' to uncovering the building. It has an address. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 19:05, 9 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have a photo of the building but I do not have the right to post it. I acquired the photo from an email inquiry back in April-May of 2011. At this time I was building a display for the museum showing the structures where the marble can be found. I have a computer mapping program where I made an almost 4 foot wide map of the US. I then plotted on the map the known locations. I then placed around the map photos that I was able to scour from the websites, museums, historical societies, library etc. I still have the email of the guy who sent the photo. I think I have the address of the building for I used google map and found it this way also. OneHistoryGuy (talk) 06:18, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"Cambridge" is etched into stone above the entry OneHistoryGuy (talk) 06:21, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The building in the flickr link is not the Cambrdige building that I was provided a photo of or with google map. The entrance faces the corner. OneHistoryGuy (talk) 06:28, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Cambridge building is at 1270 Broadway, on the corner with west 33rd street. A Radisson Hotel is adjacent.OneHistoryGuy (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:41, 10 December 2011 (UTC).[reply]

structures with no references[edit]

I think I caused confussion with "no reference" for every structure in the article section is referenced in the book "Marble, Colorado, City of Stone" and or "Marble A Town Built On Dreams". None of the structures are original research for every one meets the Wiki definition of Verifiable, which is
"The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—whether readers can check that material in Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true."
I uploaded to Commons a scan of the list from "Marble A Town Built On Dreams", which is an expanded list from "City of Stone".OneHistoryGuy (talk) 01:07, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Below are the structures in the article list with no reference. My references to photos and research is between January thruMay 2011. I found a lot photos but no license "BNL"

California Los Angeles Bankers Trust Building; $200,00 (An extensive search architecture school at USC, UCLA, county museum, county historian, county library). Maybe the building had a different name? In Denver the Denham Building was originally the Shubert Theater.

California Los Angeles Citizen's National Bank (I did find a photo at 453 South Spring. The banking district for LA bnl

California Los Angeles Fidelity Building (I have a photo bnl. I think I can locate a link, LA public library)

California Pasadena Forest Lawn Chapel & Crematory; $10,000 (never was a Forest Lawn in Pasadena. One in Glendale - 7 miles away. Is it a wrong location or right location but wrong name...I do not know

Colorado - 33 Denver Barth Mausoleum (in the Fairmount Cemetery)

Is this the sort of documentation we need? [1] Looks like a good source. In fact, we might want to get a copy of it. eek aka Carptrash (talk) 01:58, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Colorado Denver Broadway Bank (I have a photo that was sent to me by the bank so it is bnl - 100 Broadway)

Colorado Denver Old Customs House (??marble here - 16th and Arapahoe building town down

Colorado Glenwood Springs Citizens National Bank; $899 (I have a photograph bnl)

Colorado Glenwood Springs Federal Building (floors) (I have a photo graph bnl)

Colorado Gunnison Post Office (I have a photo but nnl)

Colorado La Junta Santa Fe Office Building; $3,550 (I have photo bnl - taken by local librarian)

Colorado Marble St Paul's Church, font (now in Glenwood Springs Episcopal Church) Have photo bnl

District of Columbia DC Barnes Hospital; $15,000 (west wing as hydrotheropy ward)Part of old soliders retirement home. I had left phone msgs with a Mr Wu but never returned my calls

District of Columbia DC Real Estate Trust Building; $5,540 (no idea)

District of Columbia DC W. Seely Hutchinson; $1,619 (no idea)

Illinois DeKalb Mausoleum (did not research)

Illinois Rockford Mausoleum; $1,000 (did not research)

Illinois Chicago Telephone Building; $76,000 (Made a couple of phone inquires to the library but without a phone company more time would be involved. I had to wrap up the design. A central bell building present could be it

Indiana Crawford Davis Mausoleum (town name is actually Crawfordsville - did not research)

Indiana Morocco Mausoleum; $8,000 (did not research)

Iowa Plover Lind Mausoleum (did not research)

Kansas Windfield Mausoleum (did not research)

Kansas Wichita Public Library; $2,000 (I have a photo bnl)

Kentucky Paducah Mausoleum; $7,000 (did not research, library would charge $20 an hour)

Michigan Detroit Office Building - 43 story (did not research this one)

Missouri Kansas City Community Mausoleum (never found)

Missouri Saint Louis German Savings Bank (never found, library, historical societies)

Missouri Saint Louis German-American Institute (same as above)

Montana - 2 Billings Montana Power House (I do have a photo bnl)

Montana Great Falls United Savings and Trust (never found)

Nebraska Hastings Masonic Temple; $1,125 (Blue Moon cafe today)

Nebraska Lincoln Chaplin Building

Nebraska Lincoln Bancroft Ward School (Univ of Nebraska - Lincoln) Univ lib has but $15 so I passed

Nebraska Saint Paul Howard County Court House; $10,000 (I have photo bnl)

Nebraska Sidney First National Exchange Bank (never heard back from local library)

New York - 3 New York City Cambridge Building (I have photo bnl - location is 1270 Broadway at the corner of W33rd Street)

New York Schenectady Cross and seal design (Never found a local historian went through a of effort. But little info to go on. Do know now if part of a buidling, a cemetery, church).

Ohio - 4 Belefontaine Post Office; $707 (I have photo bnl)

Ohio Jayville (jaysville) Abbottsville Memorial

Ohio Sidney First National Bank

Ohio Versailles Mausoleum; $6,000

Oklahoma Tulsa Tulsa High School (The building still stands and is part of the local power company. I have a photo of the building taken at night bnl).

Oklahoma Tulsa Studebaker Company Building (main at washington)

Rhode Island - 1 Providence Providence County Court House

Tennessee Memphis Commercial Trust & Savings Bank (library charges $25 per hour for people out side Memphis)

Wisconsin Oshkosh Private Vault; $311 (never looked)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by OneHistoryGuy (talk • contribs) 08:23, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Instead of referencing a building to an image in Common, just insert the image. Footnoting or ref to a wiki article should be bracketed, and for images, insert the images, this is preferred. I also added your table and chart in the Notes section, and changed the ref to a group-ref. Also, found another ref to Quarry Town, so noted that too. Also, added more wikilinks and refs to other Colo mineralology terms. I am emjoying helping you folks on this article. Just a few things I found during the B-review, and thought jumping in and doing some of the changes instead of detailed comments. Hope y'all don't mind. Much more refs are needed for the buildings.... what was the original source of all the buildings listed? Cheers, Lance.... LanceBarber (talk) 05:30, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the additions. I am lost as to the proper-best way to cite a source. This why I glad that others have taken on this part. At the same time I am concerned that if to many well meaning folks get involved there will to many differning opinions and conflict. If something is worked out, it might be undone by others. I welcome changes to sentence style and grouping of the information. I will though take a serious challenge to any fact removal or change that I wrote if I know it is wrong.
==> Guy,I created some samples that I use over and over, plz see: User:LanceBarber/Archive#SANDBOX -- Various samples of PD tags, refs templates and formats ... scan down about half way and I have various books, periodicals, and mags with what they look like. Enjoy...Lance...LanceBarber (talk) 07:04, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I do not know the original source for "City of Stone" for the authors only notes "many sources". Mr McCollum used "The Marble Booster", the town's newspaper of 1911 to 1917 but I do not know of other periods. 1911-1917 was the time period for the vast majority of buildings in his list. I have used a wide range of sources that verified most of the unsourced buildings with photos and the dates of the structures. Most photo-text came as emails and is not available on-line. I know this is OR but I state as confirmation that the list is accurate. OneHistoryGuy (talk) 06:32, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
==> Guy, here's another wiki source you need to peruse: Wikipedia:No original research. Eventually an editor will be placing notices or warnings of uncited material, typically using the following: Red is green[citation needed] and a wiki bot will find the citeneeded and attach current month and year.... or various ref-needed boxes . LanceBarber (talk) 07:14, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
==>>I found the ref at the beginning of the section noted all the buildings which was perfect. Any additions to the table can be individual ref'd. Thank you for hard work. Cheers, Lance...LanceBarber (talk) 19:13, 18 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]


I think I caused confussion with "no reference" for every structure in the article section is referenced in the book "Marble, Colorado, City of Stone" and or "Marble A Town Built On Dreams". None of the structures are original research for every one meets the Wiki definition of Verifiable, which is
"The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—whether readers can check that material in Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true."
I uploaded to Commons a scan of the list from "Marble A Town Built On Dreams", which is an expanded list from "City of Stone".OneHistoryGuy (talk) 01:07, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

there is a loud silence[edit]

about Yule marble in the Cathedral Basilica of the Immaculate Conception, Denver article. I am trying to get a stub going about the rather obscure Detroit architect who designed (any Michigander reading this can arise to the challenge and beat me to it) it, but noticed that the article mentions three different kinds of stone used, none our beloved Yule. So . . . ............? Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 01:47, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The basic sources on yule marble structures do mention it. Too bad the other sources didn't pick up on it. Sigh. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 01:52, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The use here might be similar to the font (baptism bowl-stand)that is now in Saint Barnabus Episcopal Chuch, in Glenwood Springs. Just some small items that are not part of the physical structure. OneHistoryGuy (talk) 06:14, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reworking the entire article[edit]

I have been reworking the article from the end back up to the beginning. The majority has been rewriting paragraph opening and closing sentences, some sentence structures in general, reference formats, moving most table data into thumbnail captions or section text (and deleting the tables), section header wording, removing use of bold.

Some sections have been greatly expanded with new text (1884-1905 quarrying, Lincoln Memorial, and Tomb of the Unknowns). OneHistoryGuy (talk) 07:24, 18 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, OneHistoryGuy-- you've certainly been diligent with this article. I tried to tiptoe through some minor editing changes and got as far as the first table. I hope I didn't mess up anything significant. If you're okay with what I'm doing, I'll be back to look at the rest. I capitalized both words in proper geologic names (like Yule Marble, Leadville Limestone), and we need to continue that, I think. Also, the entire article needs units converted to metric. There's a simple code for this, but I'll have to dig it out. Meanwhile, keep up the good work! --Araucana (talk) 15:50, 18 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Araucana. I like your editing changes for they improved the quality the article. So please come back and continue. I am an expert on the subject (not so much the geology) for content but my writing is lacking to reach the desired quality level. My objective is a top-notch article. OneHistoryGuy (talk) 20:15, 18 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

completed conversion to metric[edit]

Some conversions were made without a [convert: needs a number] function to retain prefered format. Also did not find a [convert: needs a number] from short ton to metric ton. I found [convert: needs a number] functions in different articles. OneHistoryGuy (talk) 01:36, 19 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

rework is complete and the article now stable[edit]

  • The geology section was created from the former "Background" and expanded significantly (text and images)
  • the article lead rewritten to span the entire article and cover the main points.
  • sentences rewritten to transition more smoothly to the next paragraph-section and tie back to the article lead
  • Added references to text sections
  • Conversions to metric
  • cite format for websites changed to Wiki format
  • corrections of typos, grammar and sentence structure made by other editors OneHistoryGuy (talk) 02:40, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Looks good to me. Thanks for the tremendous amount of time and effort you've spent on this!
Might be time to consider a peer review for a Good Article promotion? Cheers, Pete Tillman (talk) 02:45, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Pete. Before a peer review for possible GA, I want to go over the results of the B rating but I can not find it. I stumbled across a listing of what a rating reviewer (do not know the name) found that needed improvement. Any idea where I can find it? OneHistoryGuy (talk) 03:33, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Here you go: [2]. Ruhrfisch's comments there are good. Didn't realize it was already a "B"! Best, Pete Tillman (talk) 03:52, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I will try to get back today with more minor (grammar, punct) corrections (not having finished what I started). This is a complex article, and, despite OHG's progress to date, still needs a solid edit pass, in my opinion. Would be nice if a geologist could take a look! Thanks for all you've accomplished with it already, OHG!! --Araucana (talk) 16:21, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I completely agree about the need for a solid edit. With my completion of the changes recommended Ruhrfisch, content has now reached the limit for new data inclusions and I do not see more restructuring of the data... at least by me. I welcome a hard edit OneHistoryGuy (talk) 02:56, 23 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

going through Ruhrfisch peer reivew[edit]

to check the article against improvement recommended by Ruhrfisch. Pete Tillman found the review Ruhrfisch made with the article was submitted for rating back somewhere at the end of November-early December 2011 OneHistoryGuy (talk) 05:25, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Review completed and almost every recommendation was incorporated. No existing articles can be modeled because Yule Marble has an extreemly limited geology and the majority of article data is other than geology. (The content structured itself). Retained the use of "present" instead of specifying "2011" for in this specific article "present" will not become obsolete as the use of "2011" will. OneHistoryGuy (talk) 03:06, 23 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My undo[edit]

The change by Clegs was undone because it was erroneous. The information about the last post 1945 resident in Marble came from the source "Vignettes", by Oscar McCollum, who also wrote the other cited book "Marble. a town built on dreams."

The other change I undid is more troubling. The editor removed the distance and elevation data from a photo caption because he/she did not see the purpose. Such data is part of the overall article approach of specifics. What troubles me is the editor did so on opinion, never claiming the data was a negative inclusion. If the data diminished the photo caption or the article I would agree with the change. OneHistoryGuy (talk) 21:38, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I thought the GPS coordinates were useful. E.g, one could look at this location on google earth. That one editor "sees no purpose" does not limit its utility to other editors and readers, and is hardly dispositive. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:43, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Please pardon my edit. I in no way meant to cause harm to you or the article. Sometimes too much extra chatter is included with Images...not saying that is the case here. I apoligize for my quick finger. ```Buster Seven Talk 21:47, 12 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
No harm taken and did not mean to infer any. What I should have added to the "troubling" is I have seen other articles that become an endless edit of one item here by one editor then someone else one item over there. I do not want this to happen here. There have been many edits over the last several weeks for grammar and format which I welcome for I would like to get the article ready for another rating review.OneHistoryGuy (talk) 04:04, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

restatement of article content[edit]

I rewrote the article with the serious researcher in mind (ref Wiki grade scale), which is why I included content of such depth and scope. I believe it is better to have excessive details in one location rather than general information for which you must go to other sources. This belief is from my personal experiences. OneHistoryGuy (talk) 04:06, 13 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Geology[edit]

Seems the long quote from the USGS should be rewritten rather than just plunked in as a quote. Also the sentence: The non-calcite inclusions were caused through penetrations along the seams created by the dome uplift rather than through metamorphic contact with the uplifted dome. needs clarifying. Were the "inclusions" the result of quartz vein injections or segregations / migration of impurities in the limestone or accumulations along pre-existing bedding planes in the limestone? Guess I need to read the USGS report.

Also the timeline contains some rather irrelevant entries and the 24 hour clock columns seem irrelevant - especially considering the "serious researcher" comment above. Vsmith (talk) 16:03, 18 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The USGS quote has problems. It contains links including piped links, it omits Harvard ref tags, it provides metric conversions not in the original and has re-arranged content. If it is a quote there should be no modifications. Vsmith (talk) 00:40, 19 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Rewrote the troublesome quote material and added / fixed a bit in the following paragraph. Vsmith (talk) 23:47, 19 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for replacing the USGS extract with your rewrite. A vast improvement. Such a rewrite was beyond my knowledge, which is why I originally included the USGS section as a quote. OneHistoryGuy (talk) 03:14, 21 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

GA review[edit]

7&6=thirteen (☎) requested a GA review at Wikipedia:WikiProject Geology/Assessment#Requests for assessment. Is that the consensus here? RockMagnetist (talk) 06:01, 19 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Mormon Auditorium" entry[edit]

The table on this article list a "Mormon Auditorium" in Independence, Missouri. This needs to be clarified, as there is no structure with this name in this city, and it is in no way clear what is meant by this entry:

The reference to this entry seems to be http://quarriesandbeyond.org/states/co/co-structures.html which then in turn references Marble, Colorado: City of Stone without a page number. When we are sure which of these (or possibly other) buildings we are referring to, we should use the correct name. In the mean time, no wikilink is appropriate, especially not the one to the Temple Lot. -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 18:25, 19 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for pointing the out building name error. The Auditorium is part of the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS), aka Community of Christ. OneHistoryGuy (talk) 04:20, 21 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
So where exactly does Yule Marble play a role in the the CoC's Auditorium? Its not made from it. -- 208.81.184.4 (talk) 17:23, 21 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think the sources specify that. They say that Yule Marble supplied marble that was used in it, without specifying. If you have better information, please provide it. WP:RS. 7&6=thirteen (☎)!~
On page 110-111 of the source book, the RLDS in Independence, Missouri, had purchased marble for three years prior to 1921. In 1921, the RLDS formed the "Colorado White Marble Company" and took over part of the abandoned Strauss Quarry (closed in 1917). A 450foot long tunnel was made by 1926. The Auditorium ground breaking started in 1926.
I can not answer where the marble was used but Yule marble was used in other locations as other that structural. The Episcopal Church in Glenwood Springs has a baptism bowl and stand made Yule marble. OneHistoryGuy (talk) 13:53, 22 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Are you sure this stuff floats?[edit]

A density of 76 kilos per cubic metre would mean that this would be excellent material for floating platforms, or flotation devices in ships, lifebelts and so forth. However as cubic metres are rather larger than cubic feet I'm guessing that the conversion was incomplete and it should be closer to 2,500 which is around 90% of the weight of pure Calcite. A referenced weight would be appreciated, in the meantime I'll move the figure to something that fits a bit better. ϢereSpielChequers 08:47, 26 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Just use convert: 170 pounds per cubic foot (2,700 kg/m3). Vsmith (talk) 09:48, 26 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks ϢereSpielChequers 20:54, 1 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Where is the bias?[edit]

I looked at the article rating and saw the Objective rating is 3 (based on three reviews) which displays as "minimal bias". Can someone point out where bias exists? OneHistoryGuy (talk) 06:41, 24 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

User ratings are by and large low. There is no bias, but this is typical of article ratings. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:39, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yule Marble and David Stott Building and Cadillac Tower[edit]

I know that Yule Marble was used in a "43 story building" in Detroit according to the sources in that article. I tried to find in vain a 40 story builing in Detroit. However, today I happened to be in downtown Detroit, and looked up this building in wikipedia. This building is 37 stories above ground, and 3 stories below, the timing is right, as is the size of the building, along with the description of materials. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:44, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, our article says "43 story". I have not been able to figure out the name of that building, based on that description. It isn't listed in List of tallest buildings in Detroit. In the relevant time frame, the only other 40 story building is Cadillac Tower.7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:27, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
David Stott Building? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 17:54, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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