Template talk:BC Uni

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I disagree, BCOU is a University. They grant degrees, and the whole nine yards, which is soon to be absorbed by Thompson Rivers University. As for TWU, where does it say it can't be in the template? Spinboy 03:13, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

See the definition of university - "A university provides both tertiary and quaternary education." The word "university" is one that is quite highly protected by the Canadian government and is not limited solely to "degree-granting institutions." In fact, many community colleges offer degree programs but would not be considered by anyone to be universities.
There are many "Universities" in Canada that are recognized that don't offer graduate programs. Spinboy 03:32, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Um... which ones? They would not be a "university" if that were the case. That is kind of the point I was getting at. Darkcore 04:15, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I believe Nipissing University has no graduate programs, and for the longest time after becoming a University, Ryerson University had no graduate programs either. Spinboy 04:31, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
You are incorrect about Nipissing. They have graduate programs in education. Darkcore 04:39, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I stand corrected on that one then. But the point is still made. I'm sure there are other examples out there that I have probably missed. Spinboy 04:42, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Actually, your point has not really been made IMO. Your definition of a university is vague. As for UOIT, they may not have graduate programs specifically but they do have five-year professional programs in engineering, which go beyond the typical three- or four-year experience of university colleges (which, I would argue, is what BCOU is) and must be accredited by the PEO. Certainly calling any "degree-granting institution" a university is false. Darkcore 04:52, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Your origional argument was saying they have to have graduate programs to be a "University". Now you're saying they have to either have that, or five year programs? That makes no sense. And certainly their engneineering is accredited by PEO, as most Engineering programs are. But they are a "University" and BCOU was created by the Government of BC. If it were a private university, then I might think otherwise. But it's a public university. Spinboy 04:59, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Now you're the one that's not making sense. Somehow, if it's created by the government, that legitimates its existence and makes it a university? But if it's private, it's somehow not a university? Try telling that to your American neighbours and see what they think about that. Just because the government created the school does not make it a university.
As for the five-year program thing, it was not so much the fact that it was five years as much as it was the fact that it has professional programs, whereas BCOU does not. Professional programs fall somewhere between tertiary and quarternary education. Anyway, whatever. It's just a template. I don't care *this* much. If you are so determined to have it listed there then fine. Darkcore 05:15, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Let's also not forget University of Ontario Institute of Technology They have no grad programs either. 04:33, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Mount Allison University, Saint Thomas University have no graduate programs. Spinboy 05:10, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
As for TWU, I never said that it should not be in the template. I said that it should be separated out under another header, i.e., "Private universities" or "Religious universities" so as not to mislead people into thinking that its mandate, as an educational institution, is the same as the other schools on this list. Darkcore 03:23, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
That's a good idea. It could also be done for other provinces templates too. Spinboy 03:32, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Size[edit]

This template is rather large for the info in conveys, I'll be back to reduce it a little. --Commander Keane 14:00, August 24, 2005 (UTC)

FDU[edit]

I removed it, according to the user that put up the template in the FDU article the campus does not open up until 2007. [1]--Jersey Devil 18:28, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I removed it again unless they plan to include this template in the article. I saw no evidence of them being in BC. GreenJoe 04:24, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Incomplete[edit]

Plase see Category:Universities and colleges in British Columbia; I also think this tempalte should include all post-secondary institutions, not just universities....Skookum1 (talk) 16:46, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. Colleges should have their own template. GreenJoe 17:57, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Given the number of items that we're talking about here, a separate template for colleges would be kind of overkill, akin to the deprecated idea of having separate templates for AM and FM stations in the same market (all of which have now been merged down to one per market.)
I'd also note that a lot of templates are now being merged into an even newer navbox format which uses formatting to include multiple sections in a single template and hide the ones that don't apply on any particular article. For example, where we used to have 17 different templates for each individual administrative region in Quebec, we now have just one, {{Administrative divisions of Quebec region}}, which has 17 subsections but works by displaying only the specific region whose name is included in pipetext on any individual article that it's applied to (see, frex, the difference between La Trinité-des-Monts, Quebec and Barkmere, Quebec, which are both linking to the same template — but one has the display parameter set as Bas-Saint-Laurent and the other has it set as Laurentides.) A separate template for colleges will eventually get merged back into this one under that type of format anyway, so why not just set it up that way now? Bearcat (talk) 00:20, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
I agree with BearCat here. With a template that is able to "hide" sections, it makes sense to have 1 template with all post-secondary institutions.DigitalC (talk) 03:07, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Seminary of Christ the King, Mission[edit]

I know they have post-secondary accreditation but I don't know if they're formally a clerical university; they may be, and if so should be here; old Notre Dame in Nelson could use a 'defunct university" article and maybe mention here...and what about St. John's College etc at UBC, the religious colleges on the UBC campus; one or two of them may have university status, I think. Is Emily Carr really called/defined as a "unviersity", by thew ay?Skookum1 (talk) 18:19, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Emily Carr was part of the legislation that went through, and we've updated the article. As for the Seminary... it's just a seminary. If it only offers religious degrees, it answers your question. GreenJoe 20:45, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

This place isn't a University unless they grant non-religious degrees. Me-123567-Me (talk) 17:50, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Sez whose definition?? Seminary of Christ the King is no different from Trinity Western in being a religion-based institution, and its degree-granting rights were considered by other universities to rank it as one of their company; I note that the ecclesiastical colleges at UBC are not listed also, which is debatable (they're on the UBC campus, but not part of that institution). And I'm not so sure that the Seminary grants only religious degrees - are you? BTW I'm not Catholic or pro-religious universities; I just don't see the difference between a Doctor of Divinity and a Doctor of Philosophy or a Doctor of Science. You may, but a doctorate is a doctorate. Where in the supposed Wiki rulebook does it say "institutions which grant only religious degrees are not universities"?Skookum1 (talk) 18:01, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
Also worth noting that ecclesiastical institutions are the foundation of the university system historically; Cambridge and Oxford are, ultimately, religious institutions as well as royally-chartered ones. If it hadn't been for monastic colleges and their offspring "universities" would never have come into existence; it's the monastery system in fact that coined the term universitas in reference to fully-rounded education; something North American universities have by and large lost sight of in their pursuit of specialization and commercial licensing for professionals. I think you're quite wrong here and if such a wiki guideline exists it flies in the face of historical reality, and of the traditions which gave birth to universities.Skookum1 (talk) 18:04, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
Seminary students there, I know, study things other than religion; I suspect degrees in things ranging from art history, philosophy of science and even music are granted there, in addition to albeit supplementary to divinity degrees; unless you know better...but I think you're making assumptions. Trinity no doubt offers degrees in anti-evolution-science and other variations on university education, all with religious contexts, and I doubt a B.Sc. from Trinity is worth any much more than one from the Seminary (which may grant them, who knows). There is a fine line between a religiously-operated university, like Trinity or like Notre Dame in Nelson used to be, and one that is religiously-oriented/focussed. I'm not sure at all there's a difference; if Wiki "rules" say there is it's classist and elitist to do so. In my time the Seminary was one of the only degree-granting institutions in BC, and carried the academic clout that goes with that; to be shoved aside off a template of BC post-secondary institutions because of anti-religious bias (i.e. because religioius degrees "aren't real degrees") is extremely POV.Skookum1 (talk) 18:10, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
Quest University hasn't even granted a degree yet, much less opened its classroom doors, yet it's on the template.....Skookum1 (talk) 18:11, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
  1. Quest University... is a UNIVERSITY!
  2. Trinity Western University... is a UNIVERSITY
  3. For the definition, see... University.
  4. The template is for recognized... UNIVERSITIES... not degree-granting things, otherwise we also have to include degree-granting colleges. Me-123567-Me (talk) 23:53, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
Their website says they only offer theology degrees. Me-123567-Me (talk) 23:58, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

why are the privates hidden?[edit]

Why is there a logic switch hiding the private accreditated institutions? It seems strange that when looking at the UBC page, there is no link in the navbox for Trinity Western University, but at TWU there is one for UBC - what's the reasoning there? If we are displaying "Universities in BC" why don't we display all of them all of the time? j-beda (talk) 14:55, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

well I fixed some logic and links in the template so it nicely does "university" and "college", "private" and "public" and the users of the navbox can figure out which they want to have displayed. j-beda (talk) 16:41, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
As nice as the logic was, I have removed the "private" switch. There is no reason to omit the private universities and colleges when listing BC institutions; it should be "all" or "none". --Ckatzchatspy 19:15, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
Fine with me. We'll see if anyone else thinks the "private" distinction is of any importance. j-beda (talk) 00:51, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Why are the colleges in here too?[edit]

Shouldn't the colleges be split out into their own template? Why would a college page want to have a navbox with the name of "universities in British Columbia" and links to List of universities in British Columbia which has no colleges listed? j-beda (talk) 15:00, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Well I fixed some logic and links in the template so it nicely does "university" and "college", "private" and "public" and the users of the navbox can figure out which they want to have displayed. j-beda (talk) 16:41, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

what a mess[edit]

can there be an effort to overhaul this template? here is what is logical and would mirror the more successful education templates from other wikiprojects:

- separating colleges from universities, letting them have their own template;

- separating public institutions from private ones

many American articles have it so that there is a template simply for a state funded "university system", and even one more for all the universities in a state. the template we have for BC is just long, confusing, and elitist. (universities get their own template, but colleges have to 'share' one with the universities?)

even the Ontario template is so much more organized..

Keitherson (talk) 20:59, 12 January 2010 (UTC)