Template talk:Christianity and gender
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No censorship but
|long religious rant collapsed|
does that permit a completely irrelevant. crude, obscene, filthy, reprobate picture to be the picture for a CHRISTIAN template?
A nude picture for a Christian template? That's like representing white with black.
Genesis 1:1-21 - "1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them."
Why would Adam and Eve hide themselves if they weren't ashamed of their nakedness? They were ashamed of their nakedness!
That's a contrast to Genesis 2:25 - "And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed."
When Adam and Eve had sinned, their eyes were opened, they now felt ashamed to be naked. Being naked in public is a great shame to someone, no-one in their right mind would go around naked, so why is it okay on the internet? Wikipedia may not censor pages but don't people have enough sense and discretion to realise that pretty much anyone can see this crude image at the top? Imagine it, a little 9 year old boy or girl clicks "Random Article" and they see the nude and crude image which is supposedly of Adam and Eve; their innocence - destroyed. Just because some person who is so de-sensitised to nudity doesn't see a problem with it? How sickening is that?
What does the Bible say about nakedness?
Exodus 32:25 - "And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies:)"
Leviticus 18:6 - "None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD."
Leviticus 20:17 - "And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity."
In Isaiah 20:1-6 - God gives an example of a prophesied slavery by getting one of his own servant, Isaiah the prophet to be naked and barefoot for three years. Nakedness is still a shame in the chapter.
"1 In the year that Tartan came unto Ashdod, (when Sargon the king of Assyria sent him,) and fought against Ashdod, and took it;
2 At the same time spake the LORD by Isaiah the son of Amoz, saying, Go and loose the sackcloth from off thy loins, and put off thy shoe from thy foot. And he did so, walking naked and barefoot.
3 And the LORD said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia;
4 So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.
5 And they shall be afraid and ashamed of Ethiopia their expectation, and of Egypt their glory.
6 And the inhabitant of this isle shall say in that day, Behold, such is our expectation, whither we flee for help to be delivered from the king of Assyria: and how shall we escape?"
Revelation 16:5 - "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame."
The Lord Jesus himself talks about nakedness as being a shame.
This picture shames true Christians. Never mind the lukewarm professing Christians who wouldn't mind seeing this picture because they do not have the Holy Spirit of God in them. This "Adam and Eve" image is completely inappropriate and there are clearly better images to choose from. Please allow someone to remove the image and replace it or remove a picture altogether.
Nevertheless let me give you some more scripture.
Revelation 21:7-8 - "7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
God WILL judge you.
2 Peter 3:7 - "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."
Don't be ungodly and permit to this image, for you will be judged.
Philippians 2:10-11 - "10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
God is going to judge you for your actions and one day you will do what Philippians 2:10-11 says. You will bow at the name of Jesus. The things that you thought which were contrary to the Lord Jesus' standards will be rejected, don't be contrary to the Lord. I've shown you what the Bible says, the KJV, the perfect word of God says about nakedness and hopefully you will see my point and agree that nudity shouldn't be used to portray a Christian topic. Yes, Adam and Eve were naked and they weren't ashamed, but they sinned and became ashamed. We are still the seed of Adam, we should be ashamed too...
- You will not find consensus for that, I believe. Toddst1 (talk) 01:44, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
- Umm, the image is a Christian art portraying Adam and Eve, not pornography! Reaper Eternal (talk) 02:36, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
- I think Jesus is King of Kings's comment demonstrates why the image is so appropriate for an article entitled Christianity and gender. Past that, WP:NOTCENSORED states "being objectionable" is generally not sufficient grounds for removal or inclusion of content and Any rules that forbid members of a given organization, fraternity, or religion to show a name or image do not apply to Wikipedia because Wikipedia is not a member of those organizations. ŞůṜīΣĻ¹98¹Speak 05:22, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
- Judaism and Islam prohibit the consumption of pork products. We have not erased Bacon because of this. The Amish faith (at least in some stripes) admonishes against use of electricity. We have not moved the servers on to an abacus. There is not any reason I can see to give one particular religion's admonition against one particular thing (nudity) special priority over all these and other religious tenets. If you do want to go and make Wikipedia compliant with every belief of every religion and every denomination thereof, please feel free to attempt that. This might be different if it depicted something that is unilaterally antithetical to Christianity itself, but the massive history of nudity in Christian art (such as the very image in question) demonstrates that opposing any depiction of nudity is even less paramount to Christianity than the aforementioned dogmas we have not acted upon. So this is not even about honoring the dogma of an entire religion, but of one particular group of people within it. I hope that explains sufficiently the ways in which this differs from, say, using an image of Hitler for pages about Judaism. - Vianello (Talk) 09:04, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
The list of notable people seems to consist almost entirely of English-speaking, contemporary, Reformed Protestants, even though they make up only a minority within Christianity (past and present). I'm going to see if there's anything I can do to rectify this apparent systemic bias. FiredanceThroughTheNight (talk) 22:57, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
- Added two (1 Catholic and one Orthodox), but the list could use more. It's worth noting that Catholics and Orthodox, unlike Protestants, generally do not fit cleanly into any of the four basic perspectives (Feminism, Complementarianism, Egalitarianism and Patriarchy). Mathewes-Green for instance self-identifies as a feminist, and is one in a lot of ways, but unlike Protestant feminists she accepts (with all Orthodox) that ordination should be male-only, which would be considered a Complementarian position in the Protestant world. FiredanceThroughTheNight (talk) 23:05, 26 January 2014 (UTC)