Template talk:Cite AV media/Archive 1

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Purpose

Template to cite videos, films and documentaries based on APA style guide 5 using this as a reference. pamri 14:36, July 28, 2005 (UTC)

Distributor

Thank you, I'll put the template in Wikipedia:Cite sources. But one question: where did you get the Distributor location and the Distributors name of that documentary? CG 14:30, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

Optional fields

This template currently requires all fields; could most be made optional? jareha (comments) 19:21, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

New parameter names

I'm going to migrate all calls to the new parameter names per Trödel's proposal (note that I additionaly did lowercase names for all params). Currently the old param names still work, but I will remove them once all calls have been migrated to the new param names. This shouldn't be such a big deal because this template has not such a high use count. --Ligulem 12:19, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Done. --Ligulem 18:22, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Use for audio too?

This template would be appropriate for audio recordings too. [1] Would adding a Template:cite audio that redirects here be the right thing to do, or is there something like that already hiding somewhere? --iMeowbot~Meow 05:09, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

No response yet, and I think that's a fine idea, so I'll do it. --Slashme 07:12, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Television series

I've changed "TV-Series" to "Television series", per the example here. I think it looks more encyclopedic to avoid the colloquialism "TV" anyway. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 09:13, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Citing episodes

It would be great if this template could be modified so that individual episodes of a television series can be cited properly. Template:Cite episode does exist, but appears not to be very close to APA format (see here for an example of what it should be, I think). Either this template or that one should be able to produce something like the example at the link. I don't know anything about template syntax, so I can't do it myself. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 09:50, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I haveto agree after citing a DVD series which has multiple seasons and a subtitle. It gets ridiculously long and you have to find different ways to seperate the subtitles, the fact its a box set (because there are multiple releases of the season, then the actual episode/content title (in this case an iterview). School Rumble: 2nd Semester - The Complete Box Set ~ Interview with the Creator - that's not exactly short.Jinnai 21:43, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

extra info for url

If you allow a url parameter, you should also allow an accessdate parameter and a format parameter. --Arctic Gnome 23:58, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind, I figured out how to add them. --Arctic Gnome 00:15, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

DVD special features

I'm citing interviews on a Criterion relase of Story of a Prostitute, and this template is 99% good for that. But if we could add optional fields to somehow reference video/information which is the special features of the disc, that'd be another 5%. ;) Not all special features have names, e.g. on the Crterion dvd of Gate of Flesh, the interviews are called "From the Ruins," but on Story, no name, just "interviews." TIA. Lemme know if you want some testing/help/suggestions on this. David Spalding (  ) 02:12, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

If you do figure out a good format for citing DVD special features, it would be great if it were added to the template documentation as well. Thanks. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 06:43, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Rather than add endless varieties of parameters to cover all the interesting, non-sequential stuff that might be add to modern discs, I'd recommend we add a single, generic parameter like "chapter" (already in use by "cite book" and recognizable to DVD viewers) to cover any of these possibilities. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 09:02, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

User:Shoons/Cite

We have many Template:Cite whatever.It is very confusing for dummy like me. I wonder if we can integrate into one convenient Template:Cite instead of having several templates such as Template:Cite or Template:Cite video. Therefore I created User:Shoons/Cite so that everybody can use this convenient Template:Cite in the future. So please let me know what you think.--Shoons 03:56, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

I think different references have different needs, so this may not be a great idea. / edgarde 21:30, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

IMDB

Can IMDB be added as its own separate parameter? To be consistent with the template {{imdb}}, it would just take the numeric ID from the URL. / edgarde 21:30, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure what the value of this is, when you can simply copy/paste the IMDB page url into the url field. The {{imdb}} template is only useful for standardizing the display of IMDB links. This template itself standardises layout, so there seems to be no point in adding additional fields. -- Huntster T@C 21:35, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Speaking of that site, the source needs to be changed to IMDb as that is how it is abbreviated (you can see that just be looking at the logo of the site). TJ Spyke 21:33, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Quote parameter added

I took the liberty of adding an optional quote parameter to this template, similar to other citation templates ({{cite web}}, {{cite book}}, etc.). I tested it and it seems to work fine with and without the parameter. Please revert and/or correct if it causes any problems that you find. — Bellhalla 15:44, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I use quote parameters, so I'd sure like to see this work. However, I think quotes aren't yet displaying in citations. Is this intentional or am I doing something wrong?
Here's an example where there are quotes in refs #2 & #3:
For test purposes, I enclosed #3 in quotation marks, and left #2 without. / edgarde 17:07, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Never mind. I was using {{Cite episode}}. Anyway, thanks for doing this. I really like quote parameters. / edgarde 17:10, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

date display error

i'm not sure how long this has been happening, but the date function is malfunctioning

when using the parameters:  | date=20 January 2006 | 

no date is displayed:

when using the parameters:  | date=20 January | year=2006 |   

date is displayed malformed:

--emerson7 | Talk 19:17, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, there is no error. This citation is formatted in APA style for television programs, which specifies that the year comes first, followed by the month and day, as the documentation shows. However, I don't see any reason now to strictly adhere to that, so give me a few minutes and I'll work up a fix to link things properly, and I'll reactivate the editprotected tag. -- Huntster T@C 03:10, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

{{editprotected}}

Okay, if an Admin would please update from User:Huntster/Sandbox/2, it should fix the situation. It is rather inelegant, but given what I originally had to work with in the template (way back before my first version), its about all that can be done. As soon as the update is applied, I'll update the documentation, so there is no confusion. To the fixing Admin, may I suggest that this template's title should be changed to "Cite media", since as Emerson has shown, it is quite useful for citing audio as well. -- Huntster T@C 03:38, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done, thank you. Obviously not the rename though. GDonato (talk) 16:57, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
No rename needed... Aliased today as a redirected template to this one ({{cite media}}). // FrankB 16:46, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

The punctuation is not right, though. In the example above, the full stop (period) after the date would look better inside the parentheses. Better: omit the full stop after the author; if there is a date, enclose it with parentheses preceded by a space; always include the period after the date. In the example above, this will result in: Luke Burbank (2006, 20 January).

Alternatively, keep the periods as they are, and simply drop the parentheses, thus: Luke Burbank. 2006, 20 January. - Fayenatic (talk) 22:26, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, there should be no period after the author field, but the following date should always be in parentheses. I'll work on that later on when I have some time. -- Huntster T@C 22:54, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

emerson7's original problem was that the template required year= when date= was specified. That was documented at the time, but wasn't verified by the template. There are other co-requisite paramters as well, which also aren't verified. I'd be happy to write the appropriate error-recognition code, doing something like what {{cite web}} and {{cite news}} do. RossPatterson 04:50, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Language option

Can someone add a language option? Most or all of the other cite templates have it. (EX: |language = German). Rlevse 18:34, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I second this request. Anyone able to implement this? --TheDJ (talkcontribs) 13:49, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

ID option

There should be an option to enter an ID such as a UPC code as opposed to an ASIN which is exclusive to Amazon. ISBN is not typically used in DVD, but UPC is always used. Can someone add this to the template please? MagnoliaSouth (talk) 15:35, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Can an admin please add the following code (adjust the leading or trailing bracket pairs as necessary):
}}{{
  #if: {{{id|}}} | . {{{id}}}
}}{{
  #if: {{{isbn|}}} | . ISBN {{{isbn}}}
}}{{
  #if: {{{oclc|}}} | . [[OCLC]] [http://worldcat.org/oclc/{{urlencode:{{{oclc}}}}} {{{oclc}}}]
}}{{
(The code is lifted from {{cite book}}.)
These three parameters are great locating aids. The OCLC link is great for those who use libraries, and many DVDs and audio CDs these days do have ISBNs. Thanks in advance. — Bellhalla 14:15, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

{{editprotected}}

Admin, I've created a sandbox with the above code implemented. Please retrieve from this link and apply. Thanks! -- Huntster T@C 15:44, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
YesY Done ~ Riana 14:24, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Why "date2", etc.?

Why are they "date2", "year2", and so on? This is very unituitive and odd, and other templates in the Cite series do not do this, which means it is unlikely most editors will remember this exception. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 22:00, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

They were introduced back in September to address the date display error topic above. They format as ('''date2''')., (month2 year2)., and (year2). in order of preference. The no-longer-documented date and year parameters format as (year, date).. It seems to me that the right answer to the problem would have been simply to change the formatting of the existing parameters, and to add month instead of creating alternatives and deprecating the existing ones. RossPatterson 23:03, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
The problem is that every article that uses this template would have to be checked and the "date" and "year" fields converted, because the previous use allowed for a variety of formatting...simply doing away with the old formatting system has the possibility of causing significant display problems, and I simply don't have time to go through said articles. I definitely would not have created "date2", "month2" and "year2" if I thought there was a better option. Also, in my experience most people either copy the code from an existing article or copy the code from the template documentation; if someone were to hand-code from memory, hopefully they would notice the resultant display error (though the impact would likely be minimal even if left unnoticed). If someone wanted to go through, convert articles, and then fully convert the existant code, have at it.
Of note, the reason the original date formatting was chosen was because it is the prescribed format of APA. I certainly regret implementing it that way, but it seemed like the best option at the time. -- Huntster T@C 01:18, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Remember the dot recently changed the date parameter of {{cite web}} in a way that might help here. The code

{{#ifeq:{{#time:Y-m-d|{{{date}}}}}|{{{date}}}|[[{{{date}}}]]|{{{date}}}}}

causes "date=YYYY-MM-DD to be formatted as

[[''YYYY-MM-DD'']]

while leaving any other value intact (e.g., "date=DD Month displays as "DD Month"). A similar change here could do the job nicely. Something like changing

}}<!--DEPRECATED-->{{#if:{{{year|}}}| ({{{year|}}}{{#if:{{{date|}}}|, {{{date|}}}}}).}}<!--DEPRECATED
-->{{
  #if:{{{date2|}}}
  | ([[{{{date2}}}]]).
  |{{#if:{{{year2|}}}
    |{{#if: {{{month2|}}}
      | ({{{month2}}} {{{year2}}}).
      | ({{{year2}}}).
    }}
  }}
}}

to

<!-- 
Date forms in preference order:
                         - if all parameters are omitted
&#32;([[date]]).         - if date=YYYY-MM-DD
&#32;([[date2]]).        - if date2=YYYY-MM-DD
&#32;(date2).            - if date2= is specified
&#32;(year&#32;date).    - if date= and year= are specified
&#32;(year2&#32;date).   - if date= and year2= are specified
&#32;(date).             - if date= is specified
&#32;(month&#32;year).   - if month= and year= are specified
&#32;(month&#32;year2).  - if month= and year2= are specified
&#32;(month2&#32;year).  - if month2= and year= are specified
&#32;(month2&#32;year2). - if month2= and year2= are specified
&#32;(year).             - if year= is specified
&#32;(year2).            - if year2= is specified
-->{{
#if: {{{date|}}}{{{date2|}}}{{{month|}}}{{{month2|}}}{{{year|}}}{{{year2|}}}
     | ({{
      #ifeq: {{#time:Y-m-d | {{{date}}}}} | {{{date}}}
             |[[{{{date}}}]]
             |{{
              #ifeq: {{#time:Y-m-d | {{{date2}}}}} | {{{date2}}}
                     |[[{{{date2}}}]])
                     |{{
                      #if: {{{date2|}}}
                           |{{{date2}}}
                           |{{
                            #if: {{{date|}}}
                                 |{{
                                  #if: {{{year|}}}{{{year2|}}}
                                       |{{
                                        #if: {{{year|}}}
                                             |{{{year}}} 
                                             |{{{year2}}} 
                                        }}{{{date}}}
                                 |{{
                                  #if: {{{year|}}}{{{year2|}}}
                                       |{{
                                        #if: {{{month|}}}{{{month2|}}}
                                             |{{
                                              #if: {{{month|}}}
                                                   |{{{month}}} 
                                                   |{{{month2}}} 
                                              }}
                                        }}{{
                                        #if: {{{year|}}}
                                             |{{{year}}}
                                             |{{{year2}}}
                                        }}
                                  }}
                            }}
                      }}
              }}
      }}).
}}

That's untested, and there's a lot of unnecessary whitespeace and commentary for explanatory purposes, but it's a start. It has the effect of making year= and year2=and date= and date2= synonymous, and introducing month= as a synonym for month2=, all without harming existing citations. That would allow us to remove all the "xxx2=" parameters from the documentation. If the idea has merit, I'd be happy to tweak and test the changes. RossPatterson 04:40, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

That sounds good, and then use a bot or a big AWB session to get rid of the "2" instances already deployed. This is a fantastic case in point against klugeing instead of actually fixing. What a mess. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 07:18, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect date formatting

Why is this template incorrectly linking solo years (see WP:MOSDATE), example, Radical Dreamers: Nusumenai Hōseki. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:56, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

I think you are looking for {{Cite video game}} :) Also, the reason for the non-MOS compliance in that template is due to the date field itself being wikilinked; whatever the value is, it is linked, be it a full date, year, Month Year, or whatever. I suppose we could just remove the wikilinks, but I would rather have the lone year linked than having ISO date formats unlinked. User comprehension is more important than strict MOS compliance in this situation. Huntster (t@c) 21:48, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
ah, sorry I got the wrong one. It is my understanding (perhaps wrong) that cite news and other citation templates handle the auto date linking fine (that is, they link full dates, but not solo years; they autolink full ISO dates only). SandyGeorgia (Talk) 21:52, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

{{editprotected}}

Now that date linking has been deprecated, can an admin please unlink the dates? Dabomb87 (talk) 22:51, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I endorse this change, as I was coming here to request the same thing. Rambo's Revenge (talk) 12:50, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done.  Sandstein  21:25, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Template:Cite DVD

I think this article is the best target for this to redirect, but I wanna make 100% sure first, well, is it? TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 12:46, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I will redirect it on Saturday if there are no objections. TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 22:41, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, sounds good to me. Qst (talk) 22:43, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done TheBlazikenMaster (talk) 23:05, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Use a bot to change all year2 values to year

How about someone use a bot to fix the year= values for the articles using this template so that we don't need a year2 value? There are less than 2,500 articles using {{cite video}}, which isn't very many. If we could do that, then we won't need a year2 value and year would be the standard again. The majority of people using this template still use year= rather than year2. Gary King (talk) 18:42, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

While not undoable, what is needed is a bot run that would fully convert to the new system, so the date2, year2, month2 bits could be removed entirely. I simply don't know anything about running bots or working with regex, else it would have been done by now. Huntster (t@c) 19:03, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Add video game to medium

Since a lot of games release trailers containing the game intros, could that be added as a viable option to put as medium when applicable?じんない 19:16, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, this seems perfectly reasonable. You might put something like "Trailer" in the field. Huntster (t@c) 20:37, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Not working, need help

I'm trying to use the Cite Video template in Race to the Sea, at the end of the second paragraph. Can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong that it won't display properly in the endnotes? Mingusboodle (talk) 23:22, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Simple fix: you left the closing ]]'s off "University of Tennessee" in the citation. Everything is peachy now :) Huntster (t@c) 00:12, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
D'oh! Thanks a bundle! Mingusboodle (talk) 02:55, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Distrubtor is not the publisher

I am using an anime DVD for commentary which the distributor is not the same as the publisher. As their is only a line for the publisher I'm not sure what to do here. The examples used only are for English companies which just doesn't deal with the circumstance I have.じんない 18:36, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I think that the original publisher is the most applicable entity to cite, assuming that the (re-)distributor isn't changing the actual content of the media. As an analogy, no one cites GameStop in {{cite video game}}, or Amazon.com in {{cite book}}. If the distributor is adding additional, original content that you're citing, then they're the (original) publisher of that material. — TKD::{talk} 22:33, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Well the distributor added subtitles. That could be considered actual content change.じんない 23:27, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
I see. What's happening here is that the "distributor" isn't blindly reselling; they're essentially translating and thus creating a substantially new edition. Since you're relying on the reliability of the translator, I'd note the translator as part of the "people" parameter, annotated by "(trans.)" or "(translator)", and use the publication information/location for the subtitled edition. — TKD::{talk} 17:31, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Should the documentation be updated to clarrify that for future reference? I believe projects like WP:ANIME which rely heavily on such content should be made aware of that kind of case.じんない 02:35, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Yup. I've added translator as an example to the people parameter, and have taken a crack at general guidance to cite the exact edition consulted; this applies well beyond subtitles. Consider, for example, the umpteen Star Wars editions and all of their differences. — TKD::{talk} 03:26, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

applicable medium terms

since {{cite audio}} links here, shouldn't we have examples of audio only mediums like Compact Disc, Radio Broadcast and Podcast? Also should we add one for News Broadcast applicable to any format?じんない 21:25, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Most of those sound fine. I think "news" is a little redundant to the other formats (television production, radio broadcast), though. I also happen to think that "Documentary" in the current list of examples is redundant for the same reason. — TKD::{talk} 12:23, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Should it be removed then?じんない 02:35, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Removed, and added the audio-only examples. — TKD::{talk} 03:26, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

location tag

I think the documentation for the location tag is far too US-centric. It specifically spells out to list city and state, giving a US country, but then goes into giving an example of a city, country outside the US. It would appear to be that in all cases the country should not be assumed. We have readers from across the globe who visit and contribute the English Wikipedia.じんない 21:33, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I actually think that the specific guidance as to location format is a little on the side of instruction creep, given that the documentation for other cite templates, such as {{cite book}}, don't explain to that level of specificity, which leaves the exact format to editorial discretion (same with the rest of the citation formatting, in general; the MoS doesn't recommend any specific format for full bibliographic information). I think that's an acceptable way to go, given that, in practice, it's actually common to omit even the country if the city is extremely well-known globally, such as London, Paris, or Tokyo.

That said, my personal rule of thumb is generally to specify as much of the location name as its Wikipedia article title does. Assuming that the title is in line with our naming conventions, this usually gives us a name that should be in line with what most English-speaking readers would perceive. — TKD::{talk} 22:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I think you meant Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names), specifically, Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names)#United States. However naming conventions are the way they are because the article itself gives contextual information about their location which is not present in a list of where it was published. That's why naming conventions only apply to article titles (and subsection titles).じんない 23:43, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, I specifically avoided American cities in my list of examples. More generally, I actually meant Wikipedia:Naming conventions (precision): "Be precise, but not overly precise, when necessary". Note that this guideline accounts for lack of context: "A reader may have found your article with a search, through Recent Changes or in some other way that provides no context for the subject matter" (emphasis mine). That said, I don't see any harm in being more explicit in listing location, but I do consider it, in most cases, unnecessarily pedantic. Thus, and because no other cite template documentation give that level of guidance for writing "location", I'd be in favor of removing the more detailed directions for that field in the documentation here for conformity. — TKD::{talk} 12:16, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Sounds okay. I will let you handle that to keep it in-line with other template documents, unless someone else has an objection.じんない 02:37, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Done. — TKD::{talk} 03:26, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Conversion to citation/core

I think that this should be converted to use {{citation/core}} for consistency with the other cite templates (web, book, etc.). I have done so at Template:cite video/sandbox. Test cases (and visual comparisons) are at Template:cite video/testcases. The visual differences are:

  • The order of items is different, but, IMO, still fairly logical.
  • There is an extra period (full stop) before the medium.
  • "Retrieved during" becomes the slightly incorrect "Retrieved on" for accessmonth and accessyear. I view this as not a big deal, because the other cite templates don't handle this scenario (and, really, the person who adds the access date should know the precise date on which the media was retrieved).
  • accessdate, accessmonth, and accessyear are shown only if there is a url, which makes sense, because they are only applicable for URLs.

Although the initial purpose of the template was to follow APA format, that format is actually inconsistent with the rest of the cite templates on Wikipedia. If you're using a cite template, you're going to expect at least some internal consistency with each other, rather than internal inconsistency for the sake of an external guideline that we have never professed to follow.

Once we get past the cutover, the standardization will allow us to add important standard parameters, like "language", with less risk.

I'll make these changes in a few days if there are no objections. Please add test cases as you see fit. —TKD [talk][c] 06:41, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

One more difference: the sandbox (citation/core) version displays location even if you do not specify a publisher. —TKD [talk][c] 16:34, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
I think the second example with the file format coming after the link seems fine. As for accessmonth/year, do we need them? I don't think those would pass an FAC/FLC. I think they require an exact date.じんない 19:42, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Good point regarding accessmonth and accessday. I'd be in favor of removing them altogether, but, at least initially, wanted to keep that as a separate discussion from the {{citation/core}} conversion. However, if we want to remove support for them sooner rather than later, {{cite video}} only has about 3,000 transclusions, the vast majority of which don't use them. I could do an AWB run to find and fix/remove the relatively few instances, with an explanation that accessmonth/accessyear alone is insufficient citation information for web-based references. —TKD [talk][c] 21:20, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
would be good to start here and see how it goes. Less clutter=better imo.じんない 21:45, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
Just to interject...if a citation using just "Month Year" would not pass FAC/FLC, then there is something seriously wrong with FAC/FLC. Consider that many publications are monthly, and would not have an exact date, nor should editors be required to figure out the exact date such publications were released. More on topic, there's no reason to not phase accessmonth/accessyear out, as they can be placed in accessdate with no difficulty. Huntster (t@c) 00:20, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
We are talking about the access date, not publication date. IE, when the person citing this saw it, not when it was created/published. And accessdate that only pertains to web content atm.じんない 00:38, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Well, publication date (date2/month2/year2 as used here) is very different from access date. A publication date with month and year is indeed valid. The access date is supposed to apply only to web resources (and {{citation/core}} enforces this by hiding the access date altogether if no URL is provided), and is supposed to be the exact date on which an editor last checked the URL; that's why imprecision in the access date would raise objections at FAC/FLC. —TKD [talk][c] 00:43, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Geez, I'm in moron mode tonight. Don't hesitate next time to simply say "Huntster, you're an idiot". :) Huntster (t@c) 02:45, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
TKD: My problem is with accessmonth and accessyear, not month and year, the latter of which are used for publishing dates.じんない 05:09, 23 May 2009 (UTC)
Yup; I think we agree with each other. Apologies if it didn't seem that way, possibly because of the edit conflict. :) —TKD [talk][c] 11:48, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done. Note that I've added support for language= and ref= parameters, as well. —TKD [talk][c] 06:49, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Deprecation of accessmonth and accessyear

Based on the discussion above, I've begun to deprecate the accessmonth and accessyear parameters to this template. The documentation no longer mentions them, and I've started an AWB run to remove usage in articles; I've done about half of the transclusions so far and will finish the other half soon. Interestingly, some were confusing "accessdate" to mean "day of month", which led to invalid output. —TKD [talk][c] 05:48, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

  • I finally had a bit of spare time to go through and finish the AWB run. accessmonth and accessyear are no more. —TKD [talk][c] 03:33, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

archive dates/url

Can we get this added? I realized that the template couldn't handle it when i archived some relevant youtube videos so they wouldn't get removed because of linkrot.Jinnai 05:11, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Template:Cite video/doc2

Just a heads up that I have merged Template:Cite video/doc2 into Template:Cite video/doc. There may have been some historical need for that doc2 page (I can't definitively tell), but it is currently transcluded only in Template:Cite video/doc and, indirectly, in Template:Cite video. The separation of documentation made it unnecessarily cumbersome to edit. —TKD [talk][c] 15:16, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Suggested enhancement: event parameter

{{editprotected}} I'd like to add an "event=" parameter to better identify the "time=" event. It would change the line in the template from

|At={{#if:{{{time|}}}|Event occurs at {{{time}}}}}

to

|At={{#if:{{{time|}}}|{{{event|Event}}} occurs at {{{time}}}}}

That would allow substituting a more descriptive word like "Statement", "Claim", "Quote", "Explosion", "Earthquake", or whatever is appropriate.

The corresponding addition to the doc page (I could make it myself, but they should go in at the same time) is the addition, below the description of the time parameter.

    • event: A noun describing what occurs at the given time. The default is "Event", but it could be "Quote", "Statement", "Claim", or whatever else is being singled out from the video.

It also might be nice to add a parameter to identify the speaker of the quote= parameter, but I haven't figured that out; it would require revision to Template:Citation/core. 71.41.210.146 (talk) 00:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Please try to establish concensus before using {{editprotected}}. If not enough people visit here, you might want to try the talk page of relevant WikiProject, or perhaps the Village Pump —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 01:43, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
I second the concept of event= to change the noun, as {{cite video | people=MacFarlane, Seth|date=2006|title=Family Guy Volume 4|time="[[PTV (Family Guy)|PTV]]" (DVD commentary for the episode)| medium=DVD||publisher=20th Century Fox}} => MacFarlane, Seth (2006). Family Guy Volume 4 (DVD). 20th Century Fox. Event occurs at "PTV" (DVD commentary for the episode).  Fifelfoo (talk) 03:03, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

people field, again

Still think the problem with translation exists. FE: in School Rumble#Development and production there is a video reference to Ami Koshimazu, the interviewee. However this is a translated work and the translator is unknown. Should I just put Funimation Staff (translator) for them as currently?Jinnai 04:47, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Request

{{editprotected}} To allow elimination of the last deprecated accessdaymonth and accessmonthday parameters, please add the line {{#if:{{{accessdaymonth|}}}{{{accessmonthday|}}}|[[Category:Cite web templates using unusual accessdate parameters|{{FULLPAGENAME}}]]}} inside the template, preferably right before the <noinclude> tag. Debresser (talk) 21:56, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes check.svg DoneTheDJ (talkcontribs) 12:12, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

PAL/NTSC and Regioning

Greetings; as many of you may be aware there is a frame-rate difference between PAL (24 fps) and NTSC (30 fps) (and SECAM I suppose) meaning that (particularly in longer movies) there could be a massive discrepancy between the time used in the cite and the users copy of the film. Could a field be added? something along the lines of |PAL = yes and |NTSC = yes, maybe even have them as a child of time. Movie Mistakes has a pretty cool feature where you can click the time code and the possible time differences pop up. Is it possible for something like that to be implemented?

Secondly, there are 6 DVD region codes and 3 for Blu-ray and being in Australia (R4/B) I can tell you it is ridiculously frustrating when people talk about the cool special features that we don't get (ANGRY FACE!) could a |region = option be included, possibly (if necessary) a |DVDregion = 4 and |Blu-rayregion = B, except with better names. Sanguis Sanies (talk) 16:59, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Capitalised documentation page

See Template_talk:Cite_web#Upper_case_form_of_template_name. Debresser (talk) 06:38, 21 October 2009 (UTC)


Date parameters

Further to the edit by Rjang and the above sections Template_talk:Cite_video#date_display_error and #Why "date2", etc.? [edit: and #Use a bot to change all year2 values to year ], I would suggest we consolidate the following fields.

  • date
  • month
  • year
  • date2
  • month2
  • year2

These can all be consolidated to <date> in the transclusions by AWB , and the other fields removed from the template. Rgds, Rich Farmbrough, 21:54, 3 December 2009 (UTC).

Many cites were (still) using <date> anyway. This seems like a no-brainer which probably means it isn't. Rich Farmbrough, 22:06, 3 December 2009 (UTC).
<date2> should be pretty much gone, the rest are being worked on. Rich Farmbrough, 15:40, 4 December 2009 (UTC).
Will |date= provide a year for use with|ref=harv? Other cite templates provide both year and date, and I've found it necessary to specify the year explicitly to make the ref=harv feature work in those cases. — John Cardinal (talk) 00:45, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Update - cite video delegates the |ref= processing to {{citation/core}}, and that will use the |date= value with |ref=harv, but it will use the whole value, not just the year. That will break the link between the notes and the full footnotes. Based on that, I'd suggest that {{cite video}} retain the |year= parameter. — John Cardinal (talk) 00:59, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Citation/core takes date as the parameter if year is not specified. I was going to suggest we replace this with {{#time: Y|{{{date}}}}}}} which would immediately improve things across the board. This isn't an immediate issue for cite video though, because a. it doesn't pass anything to the Year parameter of Citation/core and b. I'm pretty certain that if any Cite video's use ref=harv it is at most a handful (I'm pretty sure it is none). Rich Farmbrough, 16:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC).
I think it is more than none: I've changed a bunch of articles recently to use Harvard references, and at least one used Cite video. I can't recall which article, unfortunately. I think pulling the year from the date makes sense, but given the variation across cite templates that would have to be done carefully. In the meantime, for consistency with the other cite templates, why not make Cite video like the other templates, most of which have year and date parameters and pass both to Citation/core? — John Cardinal (talk) 17:14, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
There is one. And it was broken. I have fixed it. Rich Farmbrough, 17:23, 5 December 2009 (UTC).
For such linking to work, the citation template must pass several items of information to {{Citation/core}} via the latter's |Surname1= to |Surname4= or |EditorSurname1= to |EditorSurname4= fields, plus either |Year= or |Date=. The thing is that either |Surname1= or |EditorSurname1= must be passed - if both of those are missing, no Harvard ref link will be constructed. Of the ten fields, only |Surname1= and |Date= are passed by {{cite video}}. These come from its |people=, and either |year= or |date= fields. So if |people= is blank, as it is for the only instance of {{cite video}} within Pan American World Airways (which is, I believe, the article fixed by Rich), it's hard to see how Harvard citation linking will work in that article for that particular ref. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:29, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
Thank you Redrose64. Wheels within wheels. Rich Farmbrough, 22:23, 5 December 2009 (UTC).
Thanks guys. Perhaps there's no need for a quick fix, and no obvious way that a quick fix would help. This template is not really in sync with the other members of the cite family and maybe that's where I should focus. I'll skip that for now and come back to it when I have another video to cite. — John Cardinal (talk) 00:56, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
Have struck out |year= above because the field is no longer recognised by {{cite video}}. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:08, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
I'm having trouble following this thread. Why the heck wasn't this template standardized with all the other templates that use Harvard references? Why couldn't somebody just respond with, "yes, I added the fields, it's ready to go"? Instead, I can't use this template with Harvard references. How does this make sense? Viriditas (talk) 10:54, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

"Deprecated"

A bunch of code in the the template is HTML-commented as "deprecated", yet nothing in the documentation of the template mentions deprecation of anything. This makes no sense. Either the in-code deprecation should be removed, because no one but a handful of codemonkeys like us even knows about it, or the docs need to be updated to actually deprecate the targeted parameters. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 22:26, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

I think your point is addressed in the section above. Debresser (talk) 02:39, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

An at= parameter for specific features is needed

Right now, it isn't very practical to use this template to cite anything specific on a DVD or other multi-feature release. Example typical uses:

  • |at=director's commentary
  • |at="Foo: Behind the Scenes" featurette
  • |at=disc 2
  • |at=Spanish-language subtitles

and so on. The code to do this can be ripped straight from Template:Cite web. The parameter should not auto-format the input (e.g. by putting quotation marks around it), as some values will need different or no formatting. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 23:00, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Um, I've been using the |Time = variable pretty well for that purpose. I thought that was why it was there? It seems flexible, and outputs "Event occurs at" in a slightly wonky, but usable format since it does not try to "fix" whetever else I wish to express there. Two examples where I've recently used it "live" are at "Comes the Inquisitor#References" and "And Now For a Word#References". In one case, to generically cite one episode of four as published on a specific DVD out of six (the parameters currently available allow me to be plenty specific, I feel), in the other to cite a specific event at a specific time mark. —Aladdin Sane (talk) 23:51, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
The |time= field (nb not |Time=, that is ignored) is fine for a linear recording, such as VHS. But DVDs are normally multi-track, with a menu, etc. Whilst some do have a "play all" feature, this does vary in its behaviour. In some cases the "play all" feature will do just that, and you get a time counter which starts at 0:00 and goes up to (say) 176:35; but -
  • Sometimes the "play all" doesn't actually do what it says on the tin; on a DVD with (say) six episodes and some extras, the "play all" might play the episodes only - and the item you want to describe might not be in the "play all"
  • Sometimes the "play all" will play the episodes one by one, but restart the time counter for each episode
Aladdin, |time= according to this template's documentation is for specifying a time at which something occurs, such as 01:33:19. While it may be possible to force this parameter to accept other data, that is not what it is for, and doing so is a misuse of the parameter. I.e., another parameter (whether called |at= or not) is still needed. This is even clearer if one considers that a citation might be to an entire "something" (e.g. a 5-minute featurette consisting of a conversation the entirety of which is relevant and cited as a whole), not some particular time code or span of time codes. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 09:37, 20 December 2009 (UTC)
DVDs are divided into titles and then subdivied into chapters. Perhaps something that could link with that?Jinnai 02:11, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Agree with SMcCandlish. I've spent much time fitting a square peg into a round hole. Disagree that the parameter should be called 'at' – way too ambiguous. Like where Jinnai is starting to take this. I'd like to hear from more DVD experts on this; I'd like the parameters to cover all the possibilities of DVD construction, because while there may be many, they are still limited and can be coded. Having the parameters does not mandate their use in all cases, but yes, I'd like something better than |time=. —Aladdin Sane (talk) 08:06, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Enhancement request: edition= parameter needed

The template instructions correctly say "A production can differ among versions released; it is important to use publication information for the exact version that was consulted." But there is no convenient parameter is which to give this information, as "Second edition" or "Special Edition" or "Director's cut" or whatever is not always part of the title and does not always warrant italicisation. This would be solved if the template gained an unitalicised edition= parameter, similar to what {{cite book}} has. Wasted Time R (talk) 02:18, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I was asked something very similar (but in regard to {{cite video game}}) some weeks ago, see my talk page. I have no idea why I was asked personally (it's a template I have never actually used); and I didn't really do much. There are a few ideas though. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:22, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Brackets

This may be a bit nitpicky, but why does the medium parameter have to appear in square brackets? Brackets usually denote an insertion (correction, clarification, note, etc) by an editor. Are square brackets being used because there could potentially be too many parentheses? Why not just remove the brackets all together? –Kerαunoςcopiagalaxies 03:42, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Medium type is usually presented in brackets in professional citation styles. For example, have a look at the APA citation formatting guide at http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/560/11/ Huntster (t @ c) 04:12, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Works for me. I'll just "get used to it" lol Thank you! : ) – Kerαunoςcopiagalaxies 04:52, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Horizontal version, please

Can someone add a horizontal copy/paste of the template (like {{cite book}}, among others), please? Thank you! – Kerαunoςcopiagalaxies 17:31, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done --Redrose64 (talk) 18:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
Face-smile.svg Thank youKerαunoςcopiagalaxies 20:29, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Publisher

Publisher is a print term, we should have "producer" and list the movie producer. Thats the true copyright holder. We also need a |year= parameter for the year the movie was released. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 18:03, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Regarding |year=, this used to be in the template: it became deprecated with this edit, and was removed with these edits. See discussions earlier on this page: #date display error, #Why "date2", etc.?, #Use a bot to change all year2 values to year, #Date parameters. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:07, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

total running time

{{editprotected}}

please insert the following:

|Runtime={{#if:{{{runtime|}}}|run time {{{runtime}}}}}

between the lines:

|AccessDate={{{accessdate|}}}
|At={{#if:{{{time|}}}|Event occurs at {{{time}}}}}

to display the video's total running time. thanks! --emerson7 22:33, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Done. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 03:23, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

example:

Wyatt Cenac; Jon Stewart; Jason Jones (Tuesday July 29, 2008). Rapper or Republican (video) (.swf). Comedy Central The Daily Show. Retrieved 11 June 2010.  Unknown parameter |runtime= ignored (help);

kudos for the very quick turn-around on my request, however, for some reason it's not working. could someone please take a look and see why "runtime" is not showing up in the above example?....thanks! --emerson7 23:14, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Template:Citation/core has no Runtime parameter. A change would have to be made there, too. — RockMFR 01:11, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
should i make another request there, or will this request roll-over? after taking a look a the script there, i'd rather someone far more code-inclined than me to tackle that one. --emerson7 05:18, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
The proposal would have to be discussed over at Template talk:Citation/core. It's probably unlikely to be supported though, as it is generally not a good idea to add functionality to meta-templates for the sake of one individual template. However you may receive some other ideas over there. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:22, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
That sounds like something for an infobox, if this template is to represent a citation, would 'run time' be something that is meaningful to show up in the references section? Template:Infobox film has a running time parameter, perhaps that would fit this use?Cander0000 (talk) 19:00, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

ISBN

Is it common for videos (aka films) to have ISBNs? noticed this parameter, but couldn't find examples of it being filled on when doing a cursory search. I would understand that most editors would not take the time to gather this information, but is it something that could hope to be filled in from some registry or database somewhere, if one was so inclined? Cander0000 (talk) 18:59, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

I think every NA DVD does. At the least all of the anime DVDs.Jinnai 19:41, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Eh?

Vertical list Prerequisites[1]
 | url         = 
 | archiveurl  =
 | archivedate =
 | accessdate  = 
title
url
archiveurl
archivedate
References
  1. ^ A field listed in this column is a prerequisite for the field to the left. For example archiveurl is a prerequisite to archivedate meaning archivedate will NOT be displayed even if it has a value unless archiveurl is defined.

These look like they're misaligned. (sorry, I don't know how to "end" the code) – Kerαunoςcopiagalaxies 07:00, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Are you saying that there is an alignment problem in the documentation? Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 16:45, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Audiobooks and cite video usage

Can Cite video be used to cite Audiobooks? I'm having a doubt. When I search for Cite audio, it redirects to cite video.. Novice7 | Talk 14:36, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

I suppose this would work. Are there fields missing that you would need to cite an audio book? There is also the more general purpose "citation" template. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 18:02, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
Not really. Thank you.. Which is the other citation template you're talking 'bout? Novice7 | Talk 05:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
See {{citation}}. That is the general purpose one. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 06:33, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
Oh... The format field in citation can be filled as "CD", in case of Audiobook, and I can also use chapter for citing the track.. Thank you so much.. Novice7 | Talk 08:17, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Title parameter quotation mark inconsistency

The title= parameter in {{cite video}} doesn't add quotation marks (auto-formatting), which can result in an inconsistency when used in conjunction with other templates, like {{cite web}}. The workaround is to manually add quotation marks, but these become italicized. I'm not sure if this is really an issue or not, but I thought I would bring it up. Thanks! – Kerαunoςcopiagalaxies 03:30, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

trans_title

A trans_title= field like at Template:Cite news and Template:Cite web would be a most welcome addition.—Biosketch (talk) 12:47, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Now added. Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 00:20, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

title formatting wrong?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazuku See ref 2. It deletes the first word and puts [ ] around the link--Metallurgist (talk) 08:32, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

There is no |episodelink=, use |url=. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 18:37, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Two links?

It seems strange to me that when using trans_title, the result is "[Original title] (in some language). [Translated title]" and both the titles have an external link to whatever is entered on the url field. Is it really necessary to have two very close links to the same url? Cheers, Jenks24 (talk) 16:18, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Add a "work" parameter

It's been suggested that this template should support both "publisher" and "work" to match the behaviour of {{cite web}}. See this Help desk thread.

I've coded my suggestion in the Cite video sandbox and added a test case. Sadly, this demonstrates that my suggested change isn't good enough, since the appearance of the other test cases is altered. -- John of Reading (talk) 19:52, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

With |work=, the title should be in quotes, without it should be in italics. Let me look at this in a bit. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 22:54, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Looking at this, I don't think {{cite video}} is appropriate here, as it is intended for a movie, film or the like. The source is a news article and {{cite news}} will work using |at=:

{{cite news |author=Jason Solomons |title=Film Weekly hooks up with The Human Centipede and experiences Pianomania |work=[[The Guardian]] |date=19 August 2010 |url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/audio/2010/aug/19/film-weekly-human-centipede-pianomania |at=Time 7:15–7:20}}
Jason Solomons (19 August 2010). "Film Weekly hooks up with The Human Centipede and experiences Pianomania". The Guardian. Time 7:15–7:20. 

---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 02:27, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Updates

I propose to add features and make a few changes to match other templates in this series.

  • Change |medium= to feed into |TitleType= so it is formatted in parenthesis instead of brackets
  • Add |last1= and |first1=
  • Add |month= and |year=; using |date= for a year only breaks the anchor when |ref=harv
  • Add |work=
  • Add IDs such as OCLC, BIBCODE and the like
  • Add |series=
  • Add |archiveurl= and |archivedate=
  • Add |trans_title=

I will work on a sandbox version in a bit, but I would like to solicit comments. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 17:01, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Actually, the addition of a |work= parameter would be colossally useful. I was looking at how to create a citation template to cover such things as DVD commentaries and special features more accurately (as it stands, the template doesn't support both the sourced work and the specific feature being cited), and that would solve things right away. GRAPPLE X 16:15, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
I fully support these additions. The proposed parameters would unquestionably enhance the template greatly and also serve to bring it in line with others in the series. I would also argue that having the title italicized by default is not advisable as much of what is cited in this template shouldn't be written in italics (e.g. DVD special features, commentary tracks for television episodes).–RalfiParpa (talk) 13:33, 11 October 2011 (UTC)
Done in {{cite video/sandbox}}. See Template:Cite video/testcases. Please test and comment. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 13:26, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Wonderful. Tried it in my sandbox and it now works with template:Sfn.–RalfiParpa (talk) 12:27, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done Documentation updated. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 12:12, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Need help

Hey people, I need help citing this page in citation format (I need to provide ref for the awards), but it looks too complicated. Can someone help with that or is it the wrong place? Found the same info on worldcat as well. ShahidTalk2me 16:48, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

It is a library catalog entry. Surely there is a better source? ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 20:06, 31 December 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, citing that an alleged source may exist somewhere isn't the same thing as citing that a source actually says something. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒〈°⌊°〉 Contribs. 01:58, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Request additional parameters

| producer =
| director =
| director_of_photography =
| camera =
| audio =
| editor =
| post_audio =
| narrator =

Tom.Reding (talk) 23:32, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

  • Oppose: Why on earth would we need all this trivia for a source citation? No one but the camera operator would GaF who the camera operator was. Narrator is often useful, especially in conjunction with |quote=, but that's already handled by |people=. — SMcCandlish   Talk⇒〈°⌊°〉 Contribs. 01:57, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
  • Oppose: A citation is a formatted note that provides essential information to identify the source. None of the requested fields are essential. If there is an article on the video, then this information belongs in the infobox or the content. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 11:37, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Event occurs at time parameter ignored

I am sure the time parameter used to work, but today I noticed that the Pat Condell article displays just "Event occurs at.". Here is an extract of the cite showing the problem: Pat Condell (17 August 2010). An Irish joke. YouTube. Event occurs at 1:08. . 84user (talk) 17:32, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Hmmm, I just noticed some recent edits for the template but I cannot determine what the problem is. Time parameter still does not work, so I will use minutes for now: Pat Condell (17 August 2010). An Irish joke. YouTube. 1:08 minutes in.  . -84user (talk) 17:42, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Fixed ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 17:50, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Markup Renders as
{{cite video |time=''time'' |minutes=''minutes''}}
. minutes minutes in.  Missing or empty |title= (help)
{{cite video |time=''time''}}
. Event occurs at time.  Missing or empty |title= (help)
{{cite video |minutes=''minutes''}}
. minutes minutes in.  Missing or empty |title= (help)
{{cite video |timecaption=''timecaption'' |time=''time''}}
. timecaption time.  Missing or empty |title= (help)

Wow, that's quick, thanks! And the timecaption is useful, so I'll start using it. -84user (talk) 18:02, 27 February 2012 (UTC)