Template talk:Cleveland Cavaliers

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Culture and Lore[edit]

Please leave the Culture and Lore scetion alone.

The things in there all have historical significance to either the team or the NBA as a whole:

1. Ted Stepien's horrible trades led to the "Stepien Rule"

2. Joe Tait was the team's announcer form it's inception in 1970 to last year (except for a 2 year Stepien induced exile)

3. Jordan's shot is either an iconic or infamous image depending on your perspective

4. The "Miracle of Richfield" was for the longest time the most successful season in Cavs history

5. Ricky Davis shooting at his own rim for a triple-double is one of the most infamous occurances in NBA history (much less Cavs history)

6. "Cleveland Rocks" playing after a win is a long standing Cleveland tradtion for all Cleveland sports home victories for almost 30 years

7. "The Decision" and Gilbert's Open Letter go hand in hand

8. The longest single season losing streak in major American pro team sports history speaks for itself

All of these occurances have helped shaped the history franchise in one way or another, thus their inclusion as part of the culture and lore.

Vjmlhds 21:51, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Numbers 1 (Ted Stepien), 3 (The Shot), and 6 ("Cleveland Rocks") each have a dedicated article to link to, so I am not opposed to keeping them in the template. Number 4 (The Miracle of Richfield) links to 1976 NBA Playoffs, and Number 7 (The Decision) links to the 2010 free agency section on LeBron James; normally I would oppose keeping in piped wikilinks like these, but they are both too notable — frankly, I'm amazed Miracle of Richfield doesn't already have its own article. Joe Tait is certainly notable as a recipient of the Curt Gowdy Media Award, but I'm not sure he belongs in the template; at the very least, he does not belong in "retired jerseys" because there is no retired jersey for Joe Tait, but rather a "commemorative banner" which hangs alongside the actual retired jerseys:
Popovich, Mike (April 9, 2011). "Cavaliers Honor Longtime Radio Voice Joe Tait". CantonRep.com. GateHouse Media, Inc. "A commemorative banner was unveiled in the rafters next to Carr's retired No. 34. It reads '39 seasons Joe Tait Voice of the Cavaliers.' " 
Ricky Davis (Number 5) faking his way to a triple double is far, far from "one of the most infamous occurences in NBA history"; it was a cheap, and barely notable, attempt to force his way into the record books. Gilbert's Open Letter (the other half of Number 7) stems from the Decision, and has no article of its own. The 26 game losing streak (8), though an NBA record, also has no article of its own  Levdr1lostpassword  (talk) 17:00, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
Tait's long tenure with the franchise is worthy of him being listed in the culture and lore section (I'll agree with you about the retired numbers thing). Ricky Davis isn't worth quibbling over. The 26 game losing streak is more than just an NBA record...it's the longest single season losing streak in the history of the "Big 4" sports (MLB/NFL/NBA/NHL), and ties the 1976 and 1977 Tampa Bay Buccaneers for the longest losing streak EVER for the Big 4 sports (their streak spanned over 2 seasons). There is no question about it's notability, and wiki minutae shouldn't proclude it from being included. Vjmlhds 18:15, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
N.B.: its, minutiae, preclude. I have re-added Tait with a note on his media award. While I do not question the notability of a record 26-game losing streak, I don't see how it belongs in this template: "The goal is not to cram as many related articles as possible into one space", and WP:NAVBOX. The 2010-2011 season is sufficiently linked within Cavaliers articles, and as with "Gilbert's Open Letter", the losing streak stems from the departure of the team's star player during the previous off season (an event already listed in the template).  Levdr1lostpassword  (talk) 15:15, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Žydrūnas Ilgauskas[edit]

Žydrūnas Ilgauskas currently serves as "special assistant" to General Manager Chris Grant, not Assistant General Manager.
http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2012/04/cleveland_cavaliers_ready_to_w.html
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7475729/zydrunas-ilgauskas-rejoins-cleveland-cavaliers-assistant-gm
 Levdr1lostpassword  (talk) 00:12, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Display of coaches on this and other NBA franchise templates[edit]

Recent differences of opinion on this template have opened a broader discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association/Archive 23#NBA Coaches/Franchise template about how coach tenures are displayed on NBA franchise templates like this one. At issue in this case is the addition of a second entry for Mike Brown as head coach in the list of coaches to signify his second tenure with the team. there is inconsistency for this is displayed across the 30 NBA franchise templates and the discussion at WP:NBA serves as a way to reach consensus for how this information would be displayed (or not) across the board. Please comment there to keep discussion in one place. Please do not change the coach list until consensus can be reached. Thank you. Rikster2 (talk) 16:50, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Actually, Rikster has reluctantly opened this discussion after first posting on both my talk page and the NBA WikiProject talk page. He accuses me of ownership, although he himself has violated WP:3RR, and is ignoring the format in place more or less continuously since last April. @Vjmlhds:, since you first decided on the one-link format regarding Brown, what are your thoughts? Levdr1lp / talk 16:57, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
Multiple links to the same article on a template is for the most part redundant. Now an exception could be if for instance Mike Brown were to get promoted to GM, then he can be listed in the coaches and GM section because those are 2 different jobs. Austin Carr's article is linked twice, as he's both in the announcers and retired numbers section. But that is 2 separate sections, one having nothing to do with the other. In any one particular section though, listing somebody once is enough. Anything beyond that is overkill. Bill Musselman also had 2 separate stints as Cavs coach, and he's only listed once. Going to crazy extremes, Billy Martin was the manager of the NY Yankees five different times. Would that warrant 5 different links to the Yankees template...no. Long story short - One man, one job, one link regardless if he held the job once or 50 times. Vjmlhds (talk) 17:21, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
But Template:New York Yankees doesn't even include managers. Those are located at Template:New York Yankees managers (where Martin is linked, you guessed it, 5 times). The issue (and the reason why this discussion was teed up at WP:NBA) is that on NBA templates, the list of head coaches also serves as the chronology of head coaches and if you remove a second tenure the list no longer shows that chronology. My proposal there (which you are welcome to read and weigh in on) is to either add tenures on franchise templates or to create head coach navboxes like the Yankees example and remove them from the franchise template. The reason I started the discussion there is because this is not a discussion of this template, it is about a class of 30 templates. There really isn't any earthly reason why the Cavs should use a different standard than any other NBA franchise. Rikster2 (talk)
I would be OK with adding tenures to head coaches. Bill Mussleman and Mike Brown should still only get one link, but something like this for Mike Brown - (2005-2010; 2013-present) and whatever years for Mussleman would be fine. And the Billy Martin example is a mess on the Yankees manager template. He should only be listed once, with the years listed in the style I have Mike Brown. Vjmlhds (talk) 20:34, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
I have to tell you, the multiple links are the norm not the exception for chronological templates, from US Presidents to Academy Awards to College basketball coaches. I think it is mainly because the links show as highlighted on the person's page which makes it easier to identify them when on that person's article. Rikster2 (talk) 20:46, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
Vjmlhds- I think adding years would be a bit much, especially as this template covers the team in general and not the coaches specifically. Rikster- "but another template does it this way" is not a good enough reason to change the format here. Levdr1lp / talk 14:06, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
Fair enough, but I am interested in hearing the compelling reasons (hopefully rooted in some sort of WP policy or standard) why the current way is the correct way to go and shouldn't be changed. So far, I haven't heard any reasons beyond "because it is this way now" or "I don't prefer it." Consistency across like articles/templates isn't the end of story, but at least it is a reason. I think it would be particularly useful to present these reasons in the larger NBA franchise template discussion linked above at WP:NBA so that all opinions can be considered as a policy is created. Rikster2 (talk) 14:58, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Head coaches removed - replaced with new template[edit]

Per consensus at WP:NBA (discussion linked in previous conversation), I have removed the head coach section. This process will be repeated with all 30 NBA franchise templates. Template:Cleveland Cavaliers coach navbox has been created with full tenures and has replaced the generic franchise template on head coach articles. Rikster2 (talk) 22:33, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Rivalry[edit]

I do agree that there was a rivalry between Chicago and Cleveland in the past. National Basketball Association rivalries gives a detailed description of this. I want to know other's opinions about the possibility of adding this rivalry to the template. Robert4565 (talk) 00:23, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

Navboxes ideally should only link to dedicated articles about a subject e.g. Celtics–Lakers rivalry. We shouldn't just link to the main team article that, at best, briefly mentions the rivalry.—Bagumba (talk) 00:34, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Yes, you're right. Now that I think about it, it would be best to include a more notable rivalry to the template that has it's own stand-alone article. Robert4565 (talk) 00:44, 2 August 2014 (UTC)