Template talk:Coord

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Can we make a similar template for paleocoordinates?[edit]

As we all know, Earth's continents have moved over time. In light of this, scientists have worked to determine the historical locations of different geologic formations. I was wondering if a template could be created for those articles to display their "Approximate paleo-coordinates"? I think it woud be really interesting and informative. Abyssal (talk) 19:39, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

I have no doubt it could be done. But why? What would it mean? For example, how would 45°22′N 121°42′W / 45.37°N 121.70°W / 45.37; -121.70 map to a paleo coordinate? Maybe someone can start that article to explain the concept in a way that could be the basis of a conversion? —EncMstr (talk) 17:56, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
Paleocoordinates describe the location of a rock unit when it was deposited. If I say that the Antrim Shale of Michigan has paleo-coordinates of 34°24′S 29°12′W / 34.4°S 29.2°W / -34.4; -29.2 that means that about 385 million years ago, the US state of Michigan was in the southern hemisphere (!), at a location now far to the southeast of Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (!). Abyssal (talk) 13:39, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
While I understand continental drift and plate tectonics and all, I have to wonder about what would form the frame of reference for a grid from 100 to 900 million years ago. Also, how accurate might that be? It seems to me there are many variables and too little knowledge about prehistoric geography and astronomy. Did the magnetic poles reverse, or did a large planetary body impact revise the Earth's spin? Did plates move faster during one period and more slowly during another? What about chaotic dynamics making them move in different directions at different times? How could the coordinates be within 25% and what are the reliable source for such a grid? There would also have be a time dimension as part of the coordinates: How should that be encoded. —EncMstr (talk) 17:51, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
I don't have any real background in paleogeography, so as for the accuracy of the science itself I can't comment. There are many reliable sources for paleocoordinates, including scientific journals, secondary non-fiction, textbooks, and such, but the best for our purposes would be the Paleobiology Database, since it could be mined using a bot and the articles tagged with a paleocoordinate template automatically. I don't think we need a time element for the template. How are you picturing it working? I was just picturing something like "Approximate paleocoordinates: 34°24′S 29°12′W / 34.4°S 29.2°W / -34.4; -29.2" being displayed in the upper corner of articles on geologic formations. Abyssal (talk) 18:48, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Import from Wikidata[edit]

Importing coordinates from Wikidata can be done with this syntax ({{#property:P625}}) but its output is not formatted right to be accepted by this template. I'm asking if the functionality can be added to this template so that we can import coordinates directly from Wikidata, maybe in this format: {{Coord|{{#property:P625}}|display=...}}. Thanks. -- P 1 9 9   15:00, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: This needs doing, but it should be done in Module:Coordinates, not in the template, and also the code needs to be ready and tested before we can roll it out. See also this thread where a similar thing was suggested. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 15:29, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
This is a cop-out answer. The issue is raised here to get someone with the right programming knowledge to write the code (because I don't know how). To flag the issue as "answered" may indicate that it is completed and will prevent any future action. Anyway, I will reiterate the issue at Module:Coordinates. -- P 1 9 9   16:41, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
@P199: I think you misunderstand the purpose of the {{edit protected}} template. It's only supposed to be used when the code is already written and tested; requests for coding help can be made on template/module talk pages (without {{edit protected}}), or somewhere like Wikipedia:Lua requests, which I see you've already posted at. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 18:53, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Apparently ignores name=[edit]

In the article on Grain Fort, I mentioned and gave the coordinates of the nearby Grain Tower Battery at 51°27′06″N 0°43′52″E / 51.451682°N 0.7312483°E / 51.451682; 0.7312483 (Grain Tower Battery), I used the "name=XXX" parameter, with syntax {{Coord|51.451682|0.7312483|name=Grain Tower Battery|format=dms}}; however in Google Earth via GeoHack the name is shown as the article name, "Grain_Fort", not "Grain Tower Battery" (and linked from this Talk page it is "Template_talk:Coord"). (I've played with the order and parameters used in the template in this section, but it has made no difference.) This isn't just me; clicking on an example on this Talk page with "name=Moscow", the Russian capital has acquired an additional name, "Template_talk:Coord". Pol098 (talk) 15:38, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

I think that we need to amend Template:GeoTemplate - where it presently has //toolserver.org/~kolossos/earth.php?long={londegdec}&lat={latdegdec}&name={pagenamee} the last parameter should perhaps become &name={titlee} --Redrose64 (talk) 18:31, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
P.S. I don't know if it's the same issue and will be cleared up by when the ignored name is addressed, but it's not great that the name is shown, on Google Earth at least, with spaces replaced by underlines. Pol098 (talk) 19:08, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
{titlee} has spaces, not underscores. They're percent-encoded so that they can be used in a URL, since URLs cannot contain unencoded spaces. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:11, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Start and an end[edit]

Some geographic entities (such as roads) have a start and an end at different points. It would be convenient to have a Coord template that allowed at least two point to be inserted. -- PBS (talk) 19:11, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

That would need to be a different template (which could call {{Coord}}, twice}. But see also WP:LINEAR. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:24, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
Calling {{Coord}} twice does not work cleanly because the parameter display=title causes the values to be written on top of each other. -- PBS (talk) 12:13, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
Hence "see also WP:LINEAR". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:58, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
Rather than continue this conversation in two places I have placed my reply into the next section. -- PBS (talk) 14:54, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Multiple locations[edit]

Template:Coord/doc says: "Note: the 'title' attribute indicates that the coordinates apply to the entire article, and not just one of (perhaps many) places mentioned in it — so it should only be omitted in the latter case."

[So] I removed the 'title' display of coordinates from two articles that cover multiple locations ([1] / [2]+[3]) but the 'title' display was then reinstated by two other editors.

Does Template:Coord/doc need to be revised? Thanks. 183.89.112.183 (talk) 06:18, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

You didn't remove the title display (by changing it to inline), but removed the coordinates entirely. In the each of the examples given the coordinates displayed in the "title" position refer to the subject's current location; an earlier location is described in the body of the article. This is fine. The reference to "multiple locations" in the documentation refers to cases where the locations have equal prominence, such as "railway stations on the northern line" or "Edward VIII postboxes in England". Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:54, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
I removed the coordinates entirely? They were visible here - I thought inline was the default? Or am I missing something? 183.89.112.183 (talk) 11:19, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
The main thing is that there should not be more than one set of title coords; if there are two or more (as here), you get overlapping of two links, which means that one is unclickable and both are unreadable; you also get a red error message and the page ends up in CAT:COORD.
When two or more sets of coordinates are warranted in an article, they should be judged as to which is the most important (WP:LINEAR has more on this). If one of them is clearly much more important than the others, that one gets title position; if no single one has a clear claim - like the intersections on a highway - they all go inline. For something like the Uniroyal Giant Tire or Cosmo Clock 21, each of which has had two locations and still exists, the current location is clearly more important than the original location, so deserves title position. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:57, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── AFAICT WP:LINEAR does not directly address this issue. It would be convenient to have a Coord template that allowed at least two point to be inserted. -- PBS (talk) 14:54, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

Let me give an example. I am working on some articles that cover long since vanished lines of earthen fortifications (trench systems). There is nothing to see on a map today so giving a central point is is of little use because without further information one does not know whether to look on the compass for continuation from that point. Giving one geographic location for large linear structures is nowhere near a helpful as giving start and end locations. -- PBS (talk) 15:05, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
The coordinates are fed into this template through positional parameters. Several of these are already overloaded: what I mean is that if we ignore the named parameters |display= |format= |name= |notes= there are nine parameters, of which six can have two or more purposes:
  1. Latitude degrees
  2. Latitude minutes or Latitude hemisphere or Longitude degrees
  3. Latitude seconds or Latitude hemisphere or Longitude degrees or Optional data
  4. Latitude hemisphere or Longitude degrees or Longitude hemisphere
  5. Longitude degrees or Longitude minutes or Optional data
  6. Longitude minutes or Longitude hemisphere
  7. Longitude seconds or Optional data
  8. Longitude hemisphere
  9. Optional data
The optional data is the type:_scale:_dim:_region:_globe:_source: string. For each of parameters 2 through 7, there is more than one possible meaning; those parameters are said to be "overloaded". Adding another pair of coordinates would increase the list to 17 positional parameters, of which fourteen would be overloaded. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:01, 31 August 2014 (UTC)