Template talk:Goth subculture
Reasons for deletion of "Neoclassical Darkwave", "Ethereal Wave" and "Gothic Metal" from this template
Neoclassical Darkwave and Ethereal Wave are both subgenres of Darkwave, which itself is already listed.
Gothic metal is heavy metal influenced by gothic music, though is not a direct "child" of the gothic subculture's musical branch itself, in that it does not directly stem from the line of musical descent in the subculture. ANSWER: lacrimosa is the only metal band influenced by gothic rock/darkwave having a slight heavy metal sound, gothic metal is a subgenre of death/doom. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 19:59, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
- Man, I was about to debate of the deletion of Gothic metal here, not because I consider gothic metal as being a real gothic genre, but only because many goth people generally delete it for wrong reasons (misconceptions and prejudices against the gothic metal and metal in general). But at last, you're one of the people who deal ojectively with issue without implying any prejudices. At last someone in gothic music who acknowledges that gothic metal has gothic music influences, even though not a direct "child" of the culture". Considering this I agree for not including gothic metal here.Fred D.Hunter (talk) 09:55, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
- I've restored gothic metal to the template. There's nothing on wikipedia that says a template need only include a "direct child" of the subject. If folk rock, folk punk and folk metal can all be found under the folk music template even though they are obviously not "direct children" of folk music, then I see no reason why gothic metal should not be found under this gothic template. --Bardin (talk) 05:42, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
- It's extremly controversial you know since for an instance the particular case of lacrimosa's relation to the goth subculture is because is really a blend between symphonic metal and gothic rock with some darkwave moods (look at the first albums), however quite a few bands have little if any relation to the goth subculture such as moonspell, Cradle of Filth and pasradise lost. If we look at the other side of this metaler really like some darkwave bands such as sopor aeternus, autumn tears and ophelia's dream but that doesn't makes darkwave part of the metal subculture. I agree some scenes do conider gothic metal as goth, but there are at lest 5 other music genres that deserve more to be in this template than gothic metal such as industrial, dream pop, neo-folk and shoegazing and I guess the reason they aren't here is that they weren't developed by goths soch as gothic metal so that is why I'm taking it off again.220.127.116.11 (talk) 02:57, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Lacrimosa used to be darkwave in the first albums.
- Get some information me? to start industrial and neo-folk are not even darkwave and although they may listen similar they're hardly related by origins: Industrial music can't be darkwave because it developed in the 70's (darkwave developed in the eighties) as a merge result of many experimental electronic music genres. Neo-folk was the result of making experimental industrial-influenced music with various folk instruments and darkwave was created as result of a merge of the many tendencies different gothic rock/post-punk bands had. Point no 2 have you ever heard of love spirals downwards? autumn's grey solace cranes? This mortal coil? They are dream pop/shoegazing and they are gothic; cocteau twins inspired many goth bands to follow their dream pop style. And finally point number three there is a metal subculture they're called metalheads I already got at list 5 matches in a quick google search and there is even an article about them here at wikipedia. And I never said lacrimosa wasn't gothic music I said is not purely goth music and if you knew more about this subject you would see that there is a lot of goth music different than lacrimosa; if you don't believe me there are lists here called: 'list of gothic rock bands', 'list of dark wave releases', 'list of dark cabaret artists'. You know few about this subject and you have no right to restor it with the reasons you gave... I already gave mine I will take it of again.Fae-Baudelaire (talk) 20:02, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
- I'm taking it off, gothic music is a subgenre of post punk and gothic metal has nothing to do with post punk or gothic rock, it was named gothic metal because of the Paradise's lost album ' Gothic '
Should we include Post-industrial in this template? I didn't want to just add it, but there seems to be reasons to either include it or mention why it shouldn't on this page. I'm sure this isn't an irrational request and I appreciate any feedback, thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 03:28, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm going to take it off again because it's not