Template talk:Infobox martial artist

Discussion from WT:MMA

Good start. Most of the fields should be made optional (ie, it doesn't show up if it doesn't have a value). I would remove the "other information" section, listing of family members has WP:BLP issues and much of that other stuff is irrelevant. Also, isn't stance implied within style? It's redundant for boxers, that's for sure. hateless 21:35, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I like it, and will make most of it optional. I also believe "stance" refers to orthodox/southpaw. east.718 at 22:12, 10/23/2007

All of it is optional. I had stance and reach in for boxers and style (fighting style) for MMA and kickboxing guys who come from various backgrounds. About the familiy section, it was meant for only the notables, likes of Laila Ali, Klitchko brothers, Gracies etc. thx for your feedback. (Marty Rockatansky 01:44, 24 October 2007 (UTC))

Could you please refrain from adding it to any pages for now? Let's perfect the template first, then I'll have my bot sweep through all instances of {{MMAstatsbox}}, {{Infobox Boxer}}, and {{Infobox Kickboxer}}. east.718 at 03:08, 10/24/2007

This looks awsome Eastside. you definitely know how to tweak it. it starts looking like the most complete infobox i've seen here in WikiP. How do you "pot sweep" if you don't mind if i ask?(Marty Rockatansky 07:23, 24 October 2007 (UTC))

I have a WP:BOT that can replace all instances of the old templates by itself. east.718 at 12:21, 10/24/2007

...and I've taken Ray Sefo live. east.718 at 16:04, 10/24/2007

i think height, weight and reach should use the same conversion tool. don't see a reason why not. ... oh ok i saw what u did. got confused little bit coz the weight wasn't registering.(Marty Rockatansky 08:07, 25 October 2007 (UTC))

Whats your thoughts about including Olympic Medals in boxing or wrestling. it belongs under amateur career section. example Wladimir Klitschko, Rulon Gardner. i like their short template what they have right now, but visually wu be cool to add that up as well. make it like the last little section under amateur career. (Marty Rockatansky 09:57, 25 October 2007 (UTC))

The Olympic medal templates are far more profilic though... and the only I see with this is that all boxers will have to have their articles updated by humans (for the Olympic templates at least). If it were up to me, I'd first phase out the other four martial arts templates, then work on this. east.718 at 13:55, 10/25/2007

i wouldn't add on k-1sport.de as an official rec. source. they are one of the most conclusive for K-1 fights but not for fighters full kickboxing record. unfortunately there is none compared to sherdog and boxrec. at the end of the day K-1 is still only a company, like UFC, not a sport itself. (Marty Rockatansky 20:03, 25 October 2007 (UTC))

Thoughts about adding Ethnicity: Maori. for Ray Sefo example. i'd place it next under Nationality.

OK, I'll remove k-1sport.de. Also, I'd avoid ethnicity, I have no doubt that it would cause forest fires on every page where it is remotely contentious. east.718 at 01:51, 10/26/2007

Integrating mixed martial artist/pro wrestler statboxes?

Should this template be expanded to include the pro wrestling statbox information? Right now, some MMA/pro wrestlers have the mma box ([Brock Lesnar]) and some have the pro wrestling box ([Giant Silva]). On the other hand, perhaps integrating them is inappropriately implying some kind of parity between legit fightsports and pro wrestling. I dunno. Thoughts? gnfnrf 17:25, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

The only difference I see is that {{Infobox Wrestler}} has two extra fields for billed weight and height. I'll get in touch with WP:PW. east.718 at 20:32, 10/26/2007

yeah why not if theres only two fields different. I wud like to add real wrestling too, along with various different styles, like sambo, these are all amateur circuits and would fit under Amateur career section. Maybe we need to make amateur section a little more specific. I don't know... But for sure some arts like sumo, (see Akebono Taro) or karate have very specific stats and should stay separate. (Marty Rockatansky 21:09, 26 October 2007 (UTC))

Talk about an overly bloated infobox. I think the wrestling infobox should stay seperate as they don't really share much common info (it would be like wanting all athletes to have one infobox rather than having one for the NFL, one for the NBA, etc). As for Brock Lesnar, he should have a wrestling infox primarily since he's been a wrestler for about 6 years and only recently got into MMA (and has only had 1 fight) and have a mini-MMA infobox elsewhere in the article. TJ Spyke 21:41, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

pro wrestling is not a martial art itself, more like a "Sport entertainment". i think as well it's about time to draw the line somewhere. (Marty Rockatansky 22:10, 26 October 2007 (UTC))

(ec) I don't think it's bloated, it only seems that way because of the vast number of fields available. Take a look at Template:Infobox martial artist/testcases for an example of how lightweight it is: it presents the same amount of information with less formatting and clutter. east.718 at 22:16, 10/26/2007

Personally i think this template is pretty much complete, just wanted to know whats the update can we start adding it on (Marty Rockatansky 07:08, 4 November 2007 (UTC))

Nah, I think some intangible elements are kind of ugly and squished together... I'm going to try playing with the formatting in the next couple of days. east.718 at 07:10, 11/4/2007

Alright you're the boss. (Marty Rockatansky 11:09, 4 November 2007 (UTC))

line of title

Hello, I'm User:Watermint who've participated in WP:Boxing. I feel this template is very suitable and very convenient. I'd like to use when it can use. BTW, if possible, how about adding the line of an acquisition title? --W/mint^-Talk- 14:59, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

References

How does one reference someone's weight? Putting ref tags inside weightlb or weightkg parameters breaks the formatting. GregorB (talk) 11:34, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes I'd definitely like to fix this, but i don't know how. Its because he used the automatic conversion from kg's to lbs. Reference works with height and other sections. There's couple other things needs to get updated but the problem is East is not active anymore, the guy who created it.Marty Rockatansky (talk) 19:55, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, some infoboxes do that. There are two solutions generally: 1) use explicit {{convert}} (but is it too late for that?), and 2) add a "footnotes=" parameter. Okay, not really an important thing... GregorB (talk) 20:39, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I'll look around on some other templates, football, rugby etc. see what i can do. Do you know how to use bots, lets say i change the weight parameter to a similar way it is with height right now and i dont have to go thru every each page to fix it.Marty Rockatansky (talk) 23:39, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

I must say I have no experience with bots... But something can be done right away: one could introduce a new parameter, simply "weight", that would - if provided - take precedence over weightlb and weightkg. (I'd volunteer to do it, it's not that hard.) But of course, if done by hand, it would be a huge chore to fully phase these two out, a bot is needed for that. I'll look around and see how it's done. GregorB (talk) 06:55, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

On second thought: why deprecating these two parameters, they work just fine and are in fact quite convenient. Adding "weight" per above would enable editors to custom format the weight entry, which is in fact only rarely needed. I could do this, plus if there's anything else with this template that needs changing/fixing I could take a look. GregorB (talk) 08:29, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Only problem I've had, is people changing the weight around on different fighters. Same time, i know it varies a lot, sometimes even fight by fight, if it would be referenced it gives more credibility to the edits. For boxers, i'd like to add parameter - Ranked: weightclass. But the main thing i'd really like to add is how they have on some other templates, like Cristiano Ronaldo for example at the very bottom, it shows when the infobox was last edited and the date his record is correct of. something like that - Fight record correct as of 18:18, 10 May 2009 (UTC)thx Marty Rockatansky (talk) 09:03, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

All good points. No problem, I can do that. I think I'll start with the "last edited" - perhaps simply by lifting the implementation from {{Infobox Tennis biography}} (football stats are two-tiered - club and national team matches - so it's not ideally suited for martial arts). Tomorrow perhaps, or even today, time permitting. GregorB (talk) 09:58, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

No problem bro, take your time. How's thx in croatian?Marty Rockatansky (talk) 10:40, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I'll let you know in due time. :-) GregorB (talk) 10:47, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, that's one down, the rest will have to wait until weekend. Wording/formatting is identical to Infobox Tennis bio - I have no opinion whether this is optimal or not, so feel free to change. GregorB (talk) 19:04, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

That's two down, with only the weight class left. The parameter's name could be "weight_class". How would you like to have it displayed? Just "Weight class" and then whatever the user provided? GregorB (talk) 14:52, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

I think "Division": would be appropriate, right below the actual weight.Marty Rockatansky (talk) 01:26, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Done. The parameter is "weightclass", without an underscore. That should be it. GregorB (talk) 17:32, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

Unification?

There are at least three other templates with similar purpose and overlapping features: {{Infobox Boxer}}, {{Infobox martial artist}}, {{Infobox MMAstats}}. I think that this one is the most powerful of all, while still not being unnecessarily complex to use. (One can simply fill in the applicable fields and leave the non-applicable ones empty.) While there is no real harm in using all four, ideally, perhaps, there should be only one infobox. However, in this matter I'm going to defer to whatever WP Martial Arts members and other editors think is the best. GregorB (talk) 17:41, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm liking this one as well and have been thinking about initiating a switch to it for some time. Is there any reason to hold off or should we bring it up at WT:WPMA/WT:MMA? --aktsu ^(t / c) 22:12, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I was perhaps a bit too bold and merged Template:Infobox Martial artist with Template:Infobox martial artist. I have since reverted this move, but I think it's a bit crazy that we have {{Infobox Martial artist}} and {{Infobox martial artist}}. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 03:47, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

I didn't notice any huge visual changes and though it looked fine (didn't really get a chance to compare though)... The infoboxes are indeed a mess and a merger of those two seems only logical to me with {{Infobox Martial artist}} having all the fields of {{Infobox martial artist}} plus more. Hopefully we can get rid of {{Infobox MMAstats}} sometime in the future as well, as I mentioned above. --aktsu ^(t / c) 04:13, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm all for the merger as well. I see the boxers infobox is changed as well lately. Some changes Plastikspork did actually improved the overall look closer to the most widely used infobox Template:Infobox Person. Mind as well merge that as well Template:Infobox Kickboxer. Marty Rockatansky (talk) 05:38, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Merge as many if them as possible. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 09:25, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

I prefer merging as many as possible as well. I have proposed a first step below. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 19:34, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Infobox Kickboxer is now orphaned and up at TFD. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 21:26, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Move or merge

To start a discussion of ways to resolve the naming mess, I thought I would put a couple options on the table. Note that to keep things as simple as possible, I thought I would start with resolving the {{infobox martial artist}} vs. {{infobox Martial artist}} problem.

Option 1

Merge the two templates and make this the primary template. To preserve color scheme used in the current {{infobox martial artist}}, I have added a color option to this template. There is also a box_width option, to achieve the same width. I believe that all the options used the current {{infobox martial artist}} are supported by this template. After the merger, I propose using {{infobox martial artist}} as the unified name.

To see this option in action, you can check out the testcases page.

Option 2

Move this template to say Template:Infobox fighter. Since the current {{infobox martial artist}} does not include any professional/amateur fighting statistics, reach, weightclass, etc. Hence, it seems to have the primary purpose of representing information about a martial artist who does not participate in boxing, kickboxing, or MMA.

Note, I personally prefer the first option, since there are already too many infoboxes which basically achieve the same purpose. I will post a pointer to this discussion over on the other talk page as well. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 19:34, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

I'd be happy with that; the aesthetic issues leave me uninterested. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 21:39, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Option 1 sounds good, if there are no objections I'm going to start switching over prominent MMAstatsbox pages to Martial artist biography to deal with the "Belt Level" box problem of the edit function text obscuring article text (see Kenny Florian for example). Phospheros (talk) 20:29, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Option 1 is good although though the width and colour options seems totally unnecessary to me (at least until someone actually complaints). --aktsu ^(t / c) 20:39, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

As there seems to be consensus, the templates are now merged, with the old one saved as {{infobox martial artist/old}} and the old {{infobox Martial artist}} now named {{infobox martial artist}}. Redirects will make sure both references use {{infobox martial artist}}. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 01:42, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Note also {{Infobox MMAstats}} (Apparently for "Mixed martial arts"). Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 20:36, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

The backend of that one is now converted, and can be substituted (probably by a bot or AWB given over 500 transclusions). Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 15:48, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Requested. Thank you. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 17:41, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Years active

The "yearsactive" field seems problematic since it requires continuous updating each year for an active fighter, see for example Peter Graham (kickboxer). It would seem that it would be better to have this automatically calculated. I know there is {{birth year and age}} which basically does what you want, but I don't think making a new template like this is the best idea. I think the main problem is that there is mismatch between how this field is used in this template vs. say {{infobox actor}}. This field should list the span of years active, not the actual number of years. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 15:58, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

The example in this template's documentation is "2001–present". Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 14:17, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I know, that's because I changed the documentation :) It used to say indicate "the number of years the person has been a fighter" or something like that. The main problem is that if you actually go to see the uses of this field in article space, you will see many instances of "10 years" or "7 years (since 2000)", which is almost certainly wrong given that the box on the article was last updated over a year or two ago (in many cases). Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 15:46, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Martial art style or Style of martial art or ?

I merged the "martial_art" and "style" sections, so that they appear under the same label. I don't think people should necessarily be specifying both, but it's good to keep both there for backwards compatibility. My question is if Style is the best label for this field or if it should be Martial art style or Style of martial art, or if it's fine the way it is. Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 15:58, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

promotion

theres should be a spot for the fighters promotion? similar to NBA and NFL infoboxes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.228.91.25 (talk) 03:20, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

BLPintro

I noticed that when you are going to edit an article about a living people that utilizes the template {{Infobox martial artist}} (IMA), the template {{BLP editintro}} doesn't appear, for example Dan Hardy (with the IMA template) and Patrick Makau Musyoki (without the IMA). Also I noticed that when you are going to edit a living people article, at the url appears "&editintro=Template:BLP_editintro", for example

• http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Patrick_Makau_Musyoki&action=edit&editintro=Template:BLP_editintro With Musyoki
• http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dan_Hardy&action=edit With Hardy

And if I add the code &editintro=Template:BLP_editintro to Hardy's url, the BLP notice appears:

• http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dan_Hardy&action=edit&editintro=Template:BLP_editintro

This error apparently comes from this template, but I have no idea why it ommits this important notice (sometimes ignored, but still existing for legal issues). Any idea? Tbhotch.^™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 03:47, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

I just tried Dan Hardy and Emin Boztepe, and I get the "BLP editintro". I am wondering if it something else? Perhaps a temporary server problem? Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 01:32, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

With Boztepe it appeared but with Hardy still not working, even there are more pages. The only constant is this template: Raphael Assunção, Erick Silva, Dan Miller (fighter), etc. I hope it is just me. Tbhotch.^™ Grammatically incorrect? Correct it! See terms and conditions. 03:39, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

It looks like you are using the http server and I am using the https server? There have been some recent changes to the various servers, so I suppose it could be a caching problem? I have no idea otherwise. Thanks! Plastikspork _―Œ^(talk) 19:35, 1 October 2011 (UTC)