Template talk:Japanese writing

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WikiProject Writing systems (Rated Template-class)
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This template was taken from fr (see the picture's description for details). It is meant to connect all the articles about Japanese writing. fr has a many articles about the topic, so it would be good to compare. Please feel free to edit and add the template. Ben (talk) 10:07, Apr 6, 2005 (UTC)

This looks like a case where a template just duplicates categories. Template:Manga is already on Templates for deletion for this reason. Gwalla | Talk 21:08, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I can see a case for a quick index of related articles like this, but it has some mistaken links (like rekishiteki kanazukai instead of historical kana usage), but more importantly, it's not clear where you should stop. Should Japanese numbers be included in this? Encoding systems? I'm also not convinced that the links to the ja.wikipedia articles need to be in there, or all the flavors of romaji. The division of the "kanji" section into toyo/joyo/kyoiku is not useful in a "mile-high view.". Finally, I admit this is a matter of taste, but that's a really ugly image at the top. Suggest tightening it up to focus on the key elements, and making it visually less intrusive. adamrice 22:33, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I fixed that with the historical kana usage some time ago. BTW, it's not historical kana usage it's a section in kana. Ben talk contr 11:16, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

That template is screwing up the katakana article. I'm using both Safari and Firefox and that template is covering a big part of the Romanization table. Please fix this problem or remove that template if it's not possible. --Stebbiv 22:55, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I just found this discussion here and was mildly said surprised. Ok, Manga, I don't know for Manga. That's writing here and I find it a very convienient way of connecting all the articles for one topic, everybody can check out the articles he/she is interested in a fast manner. I think many people like to use it, the French use it a lot, they have many such speedbars in fr. I think Wikipedia should have something like a speedbar section everywhere. That's my opinion. If you don't like the form, change it (don't just talk about missing links as in the case of historical kana usage). Ben talk contr 11:16, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)
just to explain: the idea of the Jap interlinks is, somebody, who knows Japanese may go to the Jap article and translate some stuff. The idea is good, the kanji are there anyways (and necessary), so why not link them. Ben talk contr 11:34, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

If we're going to keep this thing...[edit]

In the [VFD] for this thing, votes are running in favor of keeping it. If we're going to keep it, I'm going to suggest some improvements.

Most these improvements boil down to simplify

  • God, that's an ugly graphic. If a graphic is considered necessary, I think I can come up with something better.
  • Each section is excessively detailed, ranking minor topics as equal with or superior to major ones.
    • The distinction between joyo and toyo kanji is not suited to a bird's-eye view of the subject, which I believe it should be. Etc.
    • Manyogana and hentaigana (articles I authored or significantly contributed to, mind you) are too trivial to be placed alongside katakana and hiragana, with okurigana and furigana pushed down as "special purpose." For that matter, why are hiragana/katakana/hentaigana shown as subordinate to manyogana?
    • Again, do we need to have every known romanization system presented in this template?
  • Where do you stop? Should there be a link to Shodo?
  • This should really be called "Japanese writing systems" or "Japanese orthography"

This was User:AdamriceBen talk contr 05:55, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

  • I think everybody would welcome some change to the template. So, let's look at your suggestions:
  1. The graphic is not very beautiful, but is not ugly either. If you think you can do something better, do it. A graphic is always good in articles, many wikipedia articles have too few pictures, so it would be nice to have a picture.
  2. some of the stuff could be compromised, I agree on joyo and toyo.
  3. about manyogana and hentaigana, I also agree.
  4. we could change the format, without loosing information, and still keep all the writing systems.
  5. it's not called "writing systems" because, it could have much more about history of Japanese writing and literacy. That was my idea, at least and articles like Shodo would be in it.

There was also an idea of changing the format from vertical to horizontal (would mean putting it to the bottom). I personally don't like this idea, because it disturbs the interactive nature of template and article. The template gives often some motivation to the article and makes it look more appealing, more graphical.

bottomline: suggestions are welcome, changes even more. Ben talk contr 05:55, Apr 26, 2005 (UTC)

OK, I've done it. Note that I've left in manyogana and hentaigana under a "historical" subhead, but commented that code out. If someone thinks they really, really need to be there, you can uncomment them. Sorry about forgetting to sign my previous comment adamrice 15:49, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)


The bar looks very nice to me and the kaku picture is actually an improvement on the old one, thanks!
My only worry is that some articles will just get lost somehow, because they are not linked, like e.g. the comparison of joyo and toyo maybe, but that's actually not the sense of the template to link ALL articles, is it? Good work! Ben talk contr 08:46, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)
Don't worry too much. Just link them from applicable articles, and make sure they're categorized. I still think Comparison tôyô-jôyô, which is a bad (ungrammatical and not very searchable) title, should be merged with jôyô kanji as a section showing what the joyo kanji changed, BTW. Gwalla | Talk 03:18, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
Merged. Gwalla | Talk 03:52, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

TfD'd[edit]

This template was listed for deletion on Templates for Deletion. The decision was to keep this template. Please see Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/Not deleted/April 2005 for more information. -Frazzydee| 23:27, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Category[edit]

I just removed Category:Japanese language from the template, since most of the articles it appears on are already in the kana or kanji categories, which are both subcats of Japanese language, making that category redundant. Gwalla | Talk 08:00, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Rōmaji[edit]

Shouldn't Romaji be down as Rōmaji due to the way it's spelt using Katakana. The Rōmaji article also uses this version.Bennity 00:38, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Well I changed it, let me know if there is a reason why it shouldn't be this way. Bennity 15:27, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Ouch[edit]

So much for keeping it simple. Now the template helpfully links to articles that don't even exist! adamrice 15:57, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Not only that, the sheer size of the thing is causing grief now on Katakana where it hides almost half of the katakana table. Those changes should probably be reverted. Hairy Dude 01:24, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Reverting to simpler form[edit]

Japanese writing

Japanese writing

Kanji 漢字

Kana 仮名

Uses

Kana orthographies

Registers of Japanese

Rōmaji ローマ字

I appreciate that Yes0song put a lot of work into expanding this template, but I am reverting it.

  • The length of the template was actually causing formatting problems with some articles.
  • Many of the newly added links point to articles that don't exist--on either the en: or ja: side. I can't see the point of including them here.
  • Some items, like 口語, aren't even a matter of writing. Others, like different romanization systems, have more to do with how Japanese is represented in Western languages than with how ローマ字 is used in Japanese.

My own attitude towards templates like this is "less is more." Put the main points in there, but don't try to make it an exhaustive index. And obviously this informs my decision to revert. adamrice 15:30, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

書 graphic[edit]

That's much nicer, thank you. adamrice 05:27, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Infobox[edit]

Japanese writing
Japanese writing
Kanji
Manʼyōgana rebus
Kana
Hiragana unmarked
Katakana marked
Hentaigana highly marked
Sogana extremely marked
Furigana pronunciation help
Okurigana grammatical suffix
Romaji
Hepburn colloquial
Kunrei official
Nihon transliteration
JSL introduction
Wāpuro keyboard input
Punctuation

I considered changing this template to use {{infobox}}, but since I didn’t quite like what I got I’m archiving it here for others or future generations to play with. — Christoph Päper 14:31, 28 May 2012 (UTC)