Template talk:LGBT

Additional articles

I would like to add four articles (the last one still a bit of a stub) to the template, as they jointly constitute an important part of LGBT history. Specifically, they are Pederastic relationships in classical antiquity, Historical pederastic relationships, Pederastic couples in Japan, and Egalitarian same-sex relationships in classical antiquity. Any thoughts? Haiduc (talk) 11:34, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

The size of this template is getting ridiculous, even with the minimised sections. I think these would be better placed in a Template:Pederasty. Rebecca (talk) 12:03, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

• Oppose - too many articles in template currently. Firestorm ^Talk 13:09, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Agreed - one reference to pederasty is enough - if people want more they can have a template on the article to help them find other articles on the topic. Mish (talk) 15:58, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

• Oppose - Even the one article on pederasty that's there is one too many when it comes to the LGBT Template. "Pedarasty" as defined in those articles has no historical link to LGBT anything, that is, unless you have the "homosexuals-are-child-abusers" myth in mind. In other words, just because homosexuality as a behavior is what's shared, does not require it to be included under a LGBT rubric of any sort. Remember, the word is still commonly and directly associated with child abuse in most of the Western world. What's more, the topic is already covered under homosexuality, which goes beyond identity politics. Besides, not only is pederasty pre-LGBT anything, it also constitutes a relation of power, i.e. far from both the struggle for LGBT equal rights and the striving for LGBT well-being. I, therefore, suggest someone create a pre-LGBT category, template, etc. should they deem it that important and provided that they realize that it's not an LGBT topic in its own right. --CJ Withers (talk) 17:29, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
• I've made a note of this discussion at WT:LGBT as these template talk pages aren't generally on people's watchlists. I'll also point out that there is a difference in pederasty and pedophilia. - ALLST✰R▼^echo _{wuz here} 18:24, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
• Oppose, purely for space and utility reasons. The current template is already too bug and performs its function poorly imo, by trying to include too much. A separate template would serve readers and editors better in this case (and in many others). But i do think pederasty has very strong historical and cultural links to LGBT, and anyone who has read up on the suject would agree, so that link should stay.YobMod 20:17, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
  • OK, makes sense to me, but I have never done a template before. Should I just adapt this one? Is there a stable of standard forms somewhere? Is anybody interested in lending a hand? Haiduc (talk) 01:41, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Here, try this. I have created Template:Pederasty; by adding {{Pederasty}} you can insert template Template:Pederasty to the relevant pages. I have tested it on a couple. If there are more pages, or you want to reorganise the listing, just edit the template. If you want it broken into sections, let me know. Mish (talk) 09:10, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

• • • Thank you! If I need more help I'll let you know. Haiduc (talk) 22:43, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Identities

Sorry to have to revert, but the correction of "sexual identities" to "sexual orientation identities" was justified, if not overdue.

sexual orientation identity = identity based on sexual orientation: homosexual, bisexual, heterosexual

sexual identity = identity based on sex: physically or biologically male, female, intersex, transsexual

gender identity = identity based on gender: socially male, female, in-between, gender-free, transgender

The fist sentence or paragraph of these articles is very clear on the differences. --CJ Withers (talk) 20:56, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

This is not supported by sources, and is due to a recent non-consensus edit of the sexual identity article. It has been referred to as 'sexual identity' for years. Mish (talk) 23:27, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I have reverted the edit to the Sexual identity page, and provided evidence of the established usage here:

• Talk:Sexual identity#Sexual orientation identity and gender identity

To avoid replicating discussion, I have opened up discussion of this issue here:

• Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies#Sexual identity

I have also notified the other relevant project here:

• Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Sexology and sexuality#Sexual identity

Mish (talk) 01:29, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Inversion

Why is "inversion" listed as a distinct sexual orientation in this template? It is an old clinical term used by 19th century doctors for homosexuality. It certainly isn't a distinct orientation; just a synonym. B-Wuuu (talk) 21:21, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Good point - it should be in the 20th Century history section, as it fell out of use after the 1930's. Mish (talk) 23:44, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. B-Wuuu (talk) 04:23, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Mainstream gay

I have removed this, because the term is a neologism (may not exist outside the article), and the article itself seems to be an opinion piece more than anything. As it is primarily anti-gay, if the article does survive, societal attitudes would be the wrong section - prejudice could be more appropriate, if the article can more clearly demonstrate this form of inverted LGBT-homophobia is established within WP:RS. Mish (talk) 12:23, 19 April 2010 (UTC) {{edit protected}} "mainstream gay" seems to be there again, can someone remove it please?

Done. --CapitalR (talk) 16:09, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

default template to unexpanded ?

I think this template should default to unexpanded not expanded because currently it takes up too much real estate and it is too imposing especially where there are other templates in the same article. --Penbat (talk) 17:50, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

That is why the settings exist - so that it defaults to expanded, but if there are other templates, then it can be set as collapsed instead. Not a major task to collapse it (unless there is no consensus to collapse). You certainly should notify people on the project talk page if there is to be some discussion of this here. Mish (talk) 18:44, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Its a very simple change to make. I would have thought the default setting (where the template is initially collapsed if there are there are other templates on the same page but otherwise initially expanded) is an uncontroversial change. The setting can easily be adjusted again in the future anyway. --Penbat (talk) 09:13, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Arteagle, 8 June 2010

The policy of "Don't Ask--Don't Tell" is not about banning an individual but about banning the political "gay rights" movement brought to military. Gays will demand to live on-base housing. Gays will demand "gay pride" parades inside military bases. Furthermore, Gay will then demand "gay marriage" ceremonies for soldiers inside the office of the Commanding General of military bases. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arteagle (talk • contribs) 21:52, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

LGBT sidebar - icon

I've restored the pride flag to the {{LGBT sidebar}}. While WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is frowned on, images in these sidebars are pretty common:

• {{Ecumenical councils of the Catholic Church}}
• {{Meher_Baba2}}
• {{Puzzles}}

And those are three of the five I looked at in Category:"Part_of_a_series_on"_templates. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 05:44, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Navbox with collapsible groups

Seems like the collapsing parameters in this template no longer conform to the syntax of the source {{Navbox with collapsible groups}}, which means all instances of {{LGBT}} that designate one section to be "expanded" are effectively broken. I'll try to fix, but could probably use some help. — HipLibrarianship ^talk 18:29, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

What to do about merger of Template:Gender and sexual identities into LGBT

A recent edit merged much of the contents of {{Gender and sexual identities}} into this template. So this template largely duplicates that one. Ways to resolve this:

1. Remove much of the merged content, making this template more as it was before the merger
2. Check that the merge completely covers the other template, and complete the merge by making the other template a redirect to this one (using the required edit summaries).

This template has not been put on all pages that were added by the merge, so if it is to continue to contain the expanded content, it needs to be added to the relevant pages.

I favor option 1 - remove merged content. This template is getting too large to conveniently use. The merged content makes it much harder to understand the topic area. Just covering the basics of gender/sexual identities here (or not covering them on this template at all, and using the other template where appropriate) seems like a way to keep things manageable and a bit more intelligible. (When the major sexual orientations are buried in with a bunch of less common neologisms it makes it much harder to understand.)

Since some sexual orientations are not LGBT, it seems like merging the other template into this one might violate NPOV. Also, it seems questionable to have not clearly LGBT material (e.g., object sexuality, asexuality, etc.) in the LGBT template. Zodon (talk) 07:21, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

It wasn't a recent edit -- it was in June. It if was a recent edit you'd be justified in reverting per WP:BRD. However, since it's been in place since June, the burden is now on you to justify your edit. You have done so to my satisfaction, though, so I support your edit. However, I'm not an expert on the subject or a regular contributor to this page. Herostratus (talk) 17:39, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

How about the LGBT merge within the G+S Identity template as LGBT refers to the specific communities/identities of such which in itself are part of the more general encompassing G+S identities (including ones that are besides L, G, B or T). Crzer07 (talk) 04:22, 17 December 2011 (UTC)