Template talk:Lang-de

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WikiProject Germany (Rated Template-class)
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Why is this template deprecated?[edit]

The suggested replacement is so long that I don't think anyone is going to use it and people will use just "German: soundso" instead, requiring the link to be disambiguated and without the nifty CSS classes that {{lang}} adds. Is there at least a redirect to {{LangWithName}} or whatever its name is that can be used instead? Kusma (討論) 20:53, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. In addition to {{LangWithName}} being too long, it doesn't currently appear to italicise the entered text. —  AjaxSmack  02:16, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Interwiki[edit]

{{editprotected}}
Please add mk:Шаблон:Lang-de interwiki. Thanks. --iNkubusse? 01:02, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes check.svgY Done - Nihiltres{t.l} 02:47, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

delinking option[edit]

{{editprotected}} I could make the edits myself, but I don't want to inadvertently break anything as I don't work much with templates. To at least allow editors to turn off links and avoid overlinking

|links={{{links|yes}}}

See Template_talk:Language_with_name#Delinking for more information. olderwiser 13:34, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

That looks fine. Yes check.svg Done — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:22, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

cy interwiki[edit]

{{editprotected}} Please add cy:Nodyn:Iaith-de. Thanks. -- Xxglennxx (talkcont.) 00:35, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Crystal Clear action edit add.png Added — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:44, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Interwikis: where[edit]

I found
<includeonly> <!-- CATEGORIES AND INTERWIKIS HERE, THANKS --> NEW: [[de:Vorlage:DeS]] </includeonly>
on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Lang-de/doc and not here. But I don't know the technical details of templates.

and /.de[edit]

Please add [[de:Vorlage:DeS]].

  • DeS means “Deutsche Sprache” --Schwab7000 (talk) 16:33, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

de:Vorlage:DeS

Interwiki links to /doc[edit]

The protected code of Template:Lang-de contains 1 category and 5 interwiki links. I think these ought to be placed at the bottom of Template:Lang-de/doc. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:59, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, especially as there are some there already, so Done. --Redrose64 (talk)

Italics[edit]

This template automatically italicizes the foreign text. In most English sources italics are not used for place names, theatre names, etc, even when these are given in the original language. There should be a parameter that can be used to turn the italics off. --Robert.Allen (talk) 21:56, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

The origin of this practice is probably Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Text formatting#Foreign terms (or MOS:Ety). It can already be turned off by using the template {{Noitalic}}: "{{Lang-de|{{Noitalic|Bayerische Staatsoper}}|links=no}}" gives "German: Bayerische Staatsoper". Alternatively, the core template {{Language with name}} could be called instead: "{{Language with name|de|German|Bayerische Staatsoper|links=no}}" gives the same:"German: Bayerische Staatsoper". But I agree that a proper parameter, e.g. |noitalic=, would be preferrable. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 12:03, 19 August 2013 (UTC)
Alternatively, we could add just this information to the documentation here. That might be easier, at least it would be for me, I think. Update: It looks like both these methods turn off the language link. Is that right? It might be nice to keep it as the default option. --Robert.Allen (talk) 07:35, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
The language link got turned off by my use of |links=no, my preferred use. I see no need for such a link in "German: Bayerische Staatsoper" and consider it as WP:OVERLINK; others may see it differently. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:19, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
These days I think you are right, it would probably be considered overlinking by many editors. One might be tempted to make the default state "link=no", but I would be very hesitant to make that change without more input from other editors. When I removed the template from Bavarian State Opera, I see I retained the language link, so obviously this did not occur to me. (Overlinking is not an issue I usually worry about very much. If it's going to be a color, blue is still my favorite on the Wikipedia.) I notice that Template:Lang says templates like "{{lang-de|Bavarian State Opera}}", giving "German: Bavarian State Opera" is intended to be used the first time that language is used in the article. All this seems a bit like overkill to me. My computer's (Apple OS 10.8) screen reader ignores the language tags and mispronounces the terms in any case. But perhaps advanced screen readers take advantage of them. BTW, thanks for adding the info about Template:Noitalics to the documentation. Update: And thanks for all the other help. I'm going to try to use these templates a bit more often. --Robert.Allen (talk) 02:35, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

template:lang-de-AT[edit]

I think we need a merger, or an addition of Austrian German in this template. How do you add "de-AT" into this template? --George Ho (talk) 18:12, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit protected}} template. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 18:27, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
Where besides WP:TFD? --George Ho (talk) 18:30, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
People agreeing on this talk page would be enough, or at least not disagreeing after a suitable length of time has been left for discussion. You might want to notify any WikiProjects whose editors might be interested as well. And you should have the code working in Template:Lang-de/sandbox, as there are several possible ways the two templates could be merged; it's not immediately obvious what needs to be done. If you need help with the coding, perhaps ask at WP:VPT? Best — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 19:08, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
It's not clear to why such a merge is needed and how it would affect the use of the template. Are there any other Lang-x templates which use regional variants? I notice that several Lang-en-XX templates are at TfD (Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2014 August 13), which raises the question why a template for Austrian is needed at all (it has currently 1 transclusion). As George Ho points out at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 132#Template:lang-de/sandbox, that template does indeed seem like a "useless waste of space". -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:11, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
We can create "{{de}}" as similar to {{zh}}. Well, "de" was deleted per TFD, and I don't know what it was before. --George Ho (talk) 04:41, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
We should not create {{de}} and {{zh}} should be renamed. Most two letter coded language templates used to be language icons. Using them in this manner will make a mess. {{fr}} / {{fr icon}} -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 04:21, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
What are your proposed names for "zh"? --George Ho (talk) 19:29, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
I would suggest templates that are similar to the current "zh" be called "xy term", in this instance {{zh term}}, since it lists various renderings of a term. (and similar templates can be renamed, or made (such as for Serbian (which has two scripts, one Latin-based), Korean (which has two scripts + romanizations), Dungan (which has three scripts + romanizations), etc ) -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 01:16, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
{{Lang}} and the {{lang-xx}} templates do this just fine; we simply do not need a new set of redundant language markup templates for ever language like {{zh term}}, etc.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  03:14, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
{{zh}} is not a {{lang}} template, {{lang-zh}} is the {{lang}} template for "zh" ; {{zh}} uses module:zh. And they're not redundant, since the current {{zh}} is about a language with multiple scripts, clearly not the case with most language. Though the romanization issue does carry over, and {{lang}} should be adjusted to add romanization (and possibly a gloss term parameter). -- 65.94.169.222 (talk) 04:26, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Update: I used the sandbox, and managed to add variety. However, it probably still needs a little work. I could add Standard German, Swiss German, and other examples of German varieties. --George Ho (talk) 19:29, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Oppose merge: George Ho has been TfDing various {{lang|xx|YY}} templates with unclear rationales, and is making a case at WT:NOT against templates generally as some form of "technocracy". This is WP:POINTy nonsense. There's no real problem with adding |variety= to such templates so that more specific templates are not mandatory to get the job done, but the ability to use a more complicated syntax of this template is not a deletion/merge rationale for simpler use of more specific templates. This is a "six of one, half-dozen of the other" matter, and a "solution" to a non-existent problem.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  22:30, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Clarification: There isn't anything "wrong" with {{lang-xx}} templates supporting a |variety= parameter (other than "variety" is a Wikipedianism and not a linguistic term); I support the idea, if it's done very carefully, with a switch test. Even if it's done right, it's still not a rationale for deleting templates than anyone familiar with language codes will expect to exist. If we don't care about the parser overhead, the {{lang-xx-YY}} versions can be replaced with calls to {{lang-xx|variety=YY}}, but only after the {{lang-xx}} has been set up to support |variety= and is doing so correctly for any plausible variety. This is a self-correcting issue with separate templates for varieties, because they'll redlink if they don't exist; by contrast, using {{lang-en}} will produce a seamless template result but no useful metadata. The main reason we have these separate templates is to force the generation of valid metadata, because what comes out of the template has to be valid language code; we cannot trust editors to input whatever they think a code is or should be into such a template, because they will frequently guess wrong. Note also that {{lang-en}} is essentially a shell, a placeholder for technical reasons, so this proposition won't work at all for migrating {{lang-en-GB}}, etc., to {{lang-en}}; the latter does not use {{Language with name}}, so it does not generate any language metadata at all (on en.wiki). Those must therefore remain separate templates, or {{lang-en}} has to get very complicated, to use completely different code depending on whether it has a |variety= specified or not, which defeats the purpose of all this "let's simply thing" stuff. Which really hasn't been simplifying anything but causing mess and heat.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  03:14, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
Strong oppose merge - Linguistically a nightmare. Language hierarchies are impossible to reliably establish and are constantly in flux. The moment one changes and has to move templates all pages that used it would need to be updated. Then there's cultural issues, some may get upset by having their language "downgraded" to a variant - then there's things like "Swiss German" - is it Swiss or German or under the macrolanguage? Bad idea to merge like that. JMJimmy (talk) 14:01, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

See also[edit]

FYI: Pointer to relevant discussions elsewhere

George Ho has been raising related issues in a number of different forums. Participants here may wish to synch their input at these other related threads (most of which deal with {{lang-xx-YY}} templates in particular, while the one at WT:NOT is more general):

 — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  02:31, 19 August 2014 (UTC)