Template talk:National personifications

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New template creation[edit]

Just created a new template to replace the one that was limited. If you check the history, you'll find that a standard Navbox template was being used. An editor had added a 21st nation, which, because they are alphabetized, pushed the US into the 21st position. Well, evidently the standard Navbox only allows 20 positions, because the US ("Edit this page": Look for a "group21" and a "list21".) was not visibly showing after the UK entry. So I created a template that can be expanded beyond 20 nations. I also turned it into a two-column list to decrease the length. In the process of building this template I improved several of the related articles with stub templates and by adding the [[Category:National personifications]] to the articles that lacked it, as well as several minor edits. This was great fun!
 —  Paine (Ellsworth's Climax)  04:58, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Template additions (new countries)[edit]

Yes, it is presently difficult to add countries to this Navbar. I just added Australia, along with their Boxing kangaroo, and it was definitely a teejus task. So I just want you to know that I'm working on this problem.
 —  Paine (Ellsworth's Climax)  05:30, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

I promised a new and improved template, one that is easier to edit in (add) new countries and their national personifications, and I have just finished it as promised. This new template is still a table-class Navbar. What I did was to separate the two columns into two separate "sister" tables, and then imbed them within a "mother" table. You'll see a few minor benefits and improvements. The biggest advantage is that it will now be so much easier for editors to add their own countries and their national personifications to the Navbar, or for them to add other countries' national personifications if they happen to come across them. There are still some on this page that I haven't gotten to yet, just in case you would like to give it a try. Best of everything to all who read this!
 —  Paine (Ellsworth's Climax)  11:32, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Lady Liberty[edit]

RandomCritic, in all honesty I can't belabor the point about the Statue of Liberty (Lady Liberty) not a personification of the US. I found several verifications of the statue personifying "liberty", but none that could make a case for Lady Liberty personifying the US itself. So I stand corrected.
 —  Paine (Ellsworth's Climax)  01:42, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Mother Earth[edit]

This a template about personifications invented by national entities. "Mother Earth", a personification of Earth and Nature, was also invented by national entities. Therefore "Mother Earth" has a place in this group of personifications. Since it cannot be tied to any one nation, its place is in a section of its own, which is why it has been placed in the "below" bar.  —  Paine (Ellsworth's Climax)  06:41, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Mother Earth was not an invention of national entities and is not a representative of any culture or group of people. She's a mythological figure or motif arising from primitive analogy between insemination and germination and has no place in this template above or below the bar. If the UN ever gets a cuddly mascot (Bono the Bureaucrat?), come back and add it. -LlywelynII (talk) 09:41, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
I'm sure you read the Mother Earth article, so I do not understand how you can seem to blow this off so easily? ALL the personifications are mythological figures or motifs! ALL the personifications arise from one primitive analogy or another! Mother Earth (or Mother Nature if one prefers) most definitely belongs on this template!
However, since you are the second editor to protest, I shall not add it back in. I do hope you will reconsider your position. Thank you very much!
 —  Paine (Ellsworth's Climax)  02:54, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Europa[edit]

On the other hand, a link to Europa doesn't seem out of order. Are there other transnational symbols (e.g., Columbia for all of the Americas?) to include as a new section? or just tack her on to the end where Mother Earth was? -LlywelynII (talk) 09:50, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I can find that Europa, also out of mythology, was a Phoenician princess; however, I cannot find any reference to her as a "personification" of Europe. Have you found such a reference? If so, and if you reconsider your opinion about Mother Earth/Mother Nature, then perhaps both of them would be appropriate for the "Below" section?
Also, I find in the Columbia article that she definitely is a personification of the USA. So when I get time, I shall add Columbia, unless you would like to do the honors, LlywelynII.
 —  Paine (Ellsworth's Climax)  03:12, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
You should check out this website, it has tens of images showing Europa's historical role as a personification of Europe. - SSJ t 23:00, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Country articles[edit]

This is interesting, but not very relevant at the bottom of country articles. I will remove it from there. --Apoc2400 (talk) 01:15, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Why? It is very relevant to the country articles to include their national personifications! Please allow them to keep this marked improvement!
 —  Paine (Ellsworth's Climax)  01:32, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Mentioning that countrys national personification would make sense, but not a box with other countries personifications. This template is fine in the articles about personifications though. --Apoc2400 (talk) 01:40, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
The reason that I believe that this template improves the national pages is that it shows readers of those countries, who come and read Wikipedia, that they're not the only ones who have a personification of their country. They are shown that it is a common and good thing to personify their nation. I think this template promotes more friendliness in the world!
 —  Paine (Ellsworth's Climax)  01:55, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
He's right. The appropriate thing to do would be to be sure to mention and link the country's personifications on the its page (eg, I'd never heard of Brother Jonathan before seeing this template) and then include this template only on the personification's page, so you see it once you click through. It might also be appropriate on some pages about national culture and transnational organizations. -LlywelynII (talk) 09:53, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
Again, I must disagree. By your own admission, you learned something by seeing this template, something that you didn't know yesterday. Isn't this what we're all about? Informing the readers? If a reader can walk away from Wikipedia thinking, 'I learned something new today,' then haven't we done our jobs as editors? This template is an improvement to all of the articles it links to.
 —  Paine (Ellsworth's Climax)  02:47, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Ukraine[edit]

Is it worth to add? Mother Motherland, Kiev --Yonkie (talk) 21:04, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Hi, Yonkie. My understanding is that most of the links involved are to sculptures with the name "Mother Motherland", and that Mother Motherland was used in place of Mother Russia (already included in this template) while the USSR was still intact. Does Cossack Mamay hold a position as a national personification of Ukraine? Would that not be a better choice than Mother Motherland? If so, then I support the addition of Cossack Mamay.
 —  Paine (Ellsworth's Climax)  03:11, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Animal as national personification?[edit]

Did animal or national animal passed to be a National Personification? For example that Boxing Kangaroo for Australia. Nobody will doubt that Uncle Sam is USA National Personification, but how about Bald Eagle? also UK's Lion and Unicorn and Malaysian Harimau Malaya, it's national animal, not national personification. If animal is not valid, I suggest to remove all animal-based National personification since it is about person. (Gunkarta (talk) 14:34, 6 July 2010 (UTC)).

It seems reasonable that a national personification should be limited to a representation of a person. RandomCritic (talk) 20:28, 6 July 2010 (UTC)