Template talk:Neighborhoods of Jerusalem

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Israeli and Arab neighborhoods[edit]

Would it be useful to separate the neighborhoods of Jerusalem into predominantly Jewish and predominantly Arab neighborhoods separately? I anticipate this might be a controversial idea, so I'll wait for input, but I'd like to play around with it and see if I can create a draft template. The usefulness of making this change would be to focus readers who are primarily interested only in one or the other group's neighborhoods. Chutznik (talk) 01:40, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

This is my idea to a first approximation. It would need checking to make sure that all neighborhoods are classified correctly. Chutznik (talk) 01:51, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Another note: The template does not contain a complete list of neighborhoods. See Category:Neighbourhoods of Jerusalem which has more neighborhoods than this template. The Hebrew edition of Wikipedia has even more neighborhoods. [1] I'd like to insert a link to the category in the template. Chutznik (talk) 01:57, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, besides some mistakes (e.g., there are many more joined neighborhoods) there is a problem with classifying a neighborhood by its current resident’s ethnicity, because the population constantly changes. Examples: Talbia was built by Arabs and is now Jewish, the French Hill was built by the Jews and is now joint with Arabs, Ramot Eshcol changed its population from secular and modern orthodox to ultra orthodox. You cannot ether classify neighborhoods by their original population because many of them were originally established as towns and villages thousands of years ago, by populations that are no longer around or are unknown.Eddau (talk) 23:05, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

One can try sorting Jerusalem’s neighborhoods by their establishing time. The establishing time is important to the neighborhoods’ history and is related to their architecture and placement:

  1. Before the eighteenth century (the old city, Silwan, and villages and towns that become neighborhoods like Lifta and Malkha)
  2. Eighteenth century till British occupation (till 1917, WWI) – Christian and Jewish first neighborhoods outside the wall.
  3. From British occupation to the establishment of Israel (till 1948, many nice neighborhoods)
  4. From the establishment of Israel to the six day war (till 1967, most of the poor neighborhoods)
  5. After the six day war (many nice neighborhoods)

Eddau (talk) 23:29, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Get Givat Oranim out of the template[edit]

it is extremely insignificant and small (1 supermarket, 1/2 a boarding school, 1 retirement home, and maximum 15 apartment buildings, most of which are small). There is no wander that neither English Wikipedia nor the Hebrew one has an article about it.Eddau (talk) 00:25, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Unsdorf[edit]

I think that Unsdorf neighborhood and Kiryat Belz neighborhood are the same neighborhood.Eddau (talk) 18:37, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Kiryat Belz does exist [2][edit]

Kiryat Belz does exist although it has no article in Hebrew Wikipedia. May be the reason for having no article about it is that the people who know it well enough to write about it a ultra Orthodox who do not surf the net. Eddau (talk) 23:04, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I am very familiar with these neighborhoods, having gone to seminary in Kiryat Sanz. Kiryat Belz is a separate neighborhood up on the hilltop, with 4 streets named after the four Belzer Rebbes. Below, along the rim of the mountain, runs a street that changes names as it passes through four neighborhoods: Kiryat Sanz, Unsdorf, Kiryat Mattersdorf, and Romema. As I am now working on an article on the founder of Kiryat Mattersdorf, I'll try to update the other neighborhood articles as well. Yoninah (talk) 11:28, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Settlements[edit]

The list includes israeli settlements in east Jerusalem that are considered illegal under international law and by the international community. This is clearly not a neutral point of view. --Babelfisch (talk) 01:31, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Stating that something exists does not condone its existence. This is a geographical navbox, not a statement of international politics. I'm not sure that the request for sources is particularly useful either, unless there is reason to believe some of these neighbourhoods do not exist - and even then we don;t really have explicit sources on navboxes in general, since they are navigation aids, not content per se.
The navbox has been moved to and from the title you suggested in 2008, therefore I have reverted that change until a consensus can be formed on this page that a different title is - or isn't - needed.
Rich Farmbrough, 22:06, 10 June 2011 (UTC).

Haredi?[edit]

Which area is that in? NESW? Can we also have a section for dati leumi? Chesdovi (talk) 18:32, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

The entire template should be reedited, and should look like the Hebrew one. The neighborhoods should be sorted only by their date of establishment. Eddau (talk) 14:18, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
Do you want to post your version here? Chesdovi (talk) 17:45, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
I agree that it is strange to have a section called "Haredi neighbourhoods". I think the only distinction should be by area, as all the other groups (Central, North, West, etc.). Debresser (talk) 16:49, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Sources[edit]

What were the sources for this template? Are there official lists of districts for Jerusalem? Sources should be differenciated for west Jerusalem, which has been part of Israel since 1948, and east Jerusalem, which was occupied by Israel in 1967 and later annexed; the annexation was never recognised by the international community, so for east Jerusalem, the list should also reflect the pre-1967 status. --Babelfisch (talk) 01:31, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

The template is full of mistakesEddau (talk) 17:01, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
I suspect the template is entirely crafted from OR. Some sort of sourcing should be found which gives us a basis for inclusion. aprock (talk) 02:42, 24 January 2012 (UTC)
for what it's worth, here is my take: there is sometimes a difference in jerusalem between "east" and other compass directions. if one is referring to actual compass directions, then, yes, gilo and talpiot are in the southern part of jerusalem (see a map). when "east" is used to convey a political term, as in "east jerusalem", they are referring to anything over the 1967 armistice line (the green line). they are two very different things - one is pure geography, and one is geography mixed with realpolitics... such is the reality in jerusalem. Soosim (talk) 09:40, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
There is in fact a source for Jerusalem's neighborhoods. It is part of the Jerusalem Municipality's official website: (jerusalem.muni.il in English) (works best in MS Internet Explorer; Foxfire has problems with the site) In the search box, type: "neighborhoods" - then choose the second entry "JLM neighborhoods" Many of the entries use geographical words like northern or eastern (eg. Homat Shmuel is situated in south eastern Jerusalem; Beit Zafafa is located in the Refaim valley in south west Jerusalem)
The template started out in 2007 as a simple (naive) alphabetical listing. In Aug 2011, "TheCuriousGnome" opened a can of worms by subdividing the template into a weird combination of geographic, ethnic political and religious sections. But it was never quite right. Some Jewish and Arab neighborhoods over the green line are not in (the political division) East Jerusalem but are included in geographic sections. And the last time I noticed, Ma'alot Dafna and Ramot Polin should be in the Haredi section.
As I see it, there are a few ways to go with this. 1. Go back to purely alphabetical.(booooring) 2. Follow the method of the Hebrew version which tries to be an entire article on the history and politics of Jerusalem.(please, please, please, let's not duplicate that monstrosity) 3. Continue fighting a POV war with the current version.(there are more important battles to be fought than this one over a stupid template. 4. Go 100% geographical and leave the poltical discussions to actual articles. I, personally prefer the fourth option. cordially, --@Efrat (talk) 12:38, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
i have no problem with a 100% geographical one, and for all of those who will object and want to fight the POV, maybe we put an asterisk in the title with a note saying something like "This division is 100% geographical and does not take into account anything else at all...."
Wait for more input, or would you like to mix it up and pick up the pieces later? --@Efrat (talk) 12:27, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
I agree with a 100% geographical listing. I also think that the "Haredi neighborhoods" section should be eliminated, as it overlaps other sections. Yoninah (talk) 13:18, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

A possible alternative:

--@Efrat (talk) 11:56, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

good work. i would say in the note that the neighborhoods are east of the 1949 and 1967 armistice lines (the green line). (note the link: Green_Line_(Israel) -- oh, and why is it "the" german colony, and not just 'german colony'? Soosim (talk) 09:40, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
Actually, I prefer the red links so I know which pages have to be written :) Yoninah (talk) 17:33, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
red is ok by me Soosim (talk) 17:51, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
The red is such a distraction. I moved all the red info to the bottom. --@Efrat (talk) 08:33, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
That's also a good solution. Yoninah (talk) 09:35, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

TO DO LIST[edit]

  • Arab al Sawahira (Eastern neighborhood)
  • ash-Shiyah (Eastern)
  • Batei Munkatch (Central)
  • Batei Nissan Bak (Eastern)
  • Beit David (Central)
  • Dahiat al-Band (Northern)
  • HaKfar HaShvedi (Western)
  • Giv'at HaArba'a (Southern)
  • Jabal Batin al Hawa (Eastern)
  • Kiryat Shomrei Emunim (Northern)
  • Kiryat Wolfson (Central)
  • Merhavia (Central)
  • Nachalat Achim (Central)
  • Ohel Shlomo (Central)
  • Machanayim (Northern)
  • Nachalat Ya'akov (Central)
  • Shikun Chabad (Northern)
  • Shikunei Nuseiba (Northern)
  • Umm Lisun (Southern)
  • Wadi Qadum (Eastern)

    --@Efrat (talk) 10:36, 5 January 2014 (UTC)