Template talk:Reflist

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Just wondering...[edit]

Does this template have permanent protect only, or does it also have cascading protection? I'm curious since when I try to edit the template, the edit notice supersedes any protection notice that may have appeared, render in the protection notice invisible. Steel1943 (talk) 01:55, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Both. And I do see both protection notices. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 08:53, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Errors when trying to make segregated reflists[edit]

When I tried to add a section about multiple citations for the instructions manual for this Reflist template, the reflists end up on the bottom reflist. How can you make two different reflists segregated from each other in one article. Multiple citations, ones with "<ref name="stuff">stuff</ref>" and "<ref name="stuff" />" in it.

This is already covered in § Grouped references. Your example had multiple errors, including defining the same reference twice, and using a reserved group name. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 10:00, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

colwidth obsolete[edit]

Why is it encouraged, as suggested here, to remove named parameters, in this case |colwidth=, in favour of unnamed positional parameters? IMO that diminishes the readability of source text. I suggest to remove that point, which was introduced in the cited edit. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 14:02, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

Because it is redundant. Since its inception, the columns feature was always ment to be controlled by the first unnamed parameter, but it was miscoded. Since that mistake has been fixed, it is simply redundant. I don't think |20em leaves any question about its meaning. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 15:15, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
The only problem with "20em" being self-evident is that "2" might not be; the colwidth parameter still accepts either a number of columns or an actual width. I do understand that reading the instructions is the best course for anyone first using the parameter, of course. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 15:32, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
Actually, |colwidth= only accepts a valid width value, no fixed number of columns; only |1= allows that. Note that using a fixed number of columns is deprecated anyway in favor of dynamic columns (using column width). -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 16:02, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
I think the use of em is -- in my case -- unhelpful in the extreme. On both my old computer and my new computer it defaults to one column. The forced two-column alternative is far better from what I have seen. My personal point of view. Epeefleche (talk) 06:17, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
The main problem is that you are forcing two columns on everyone's screen. So you have either a very small screen, or a very big font. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 09:17, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
@Epeefleche: What browser and version are you using? --  Gadget850 talk 12:10, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
Tx for the questions. My screen is 14" by 12"; 1024 x 819 pixels, 24 bit. The font is a normal one -- Times New Roman 20; not a "very big" one. I'm using Mozilla Firefox 35 on Windows 8.1, and it is up to date. Epeefleche (talk) 20:21, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
@Epeefleche: What do you see at Template:Reflist/testcases#Column width em test? --  Gadget850 talk 21:08, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, doctor. One col at 30em, two at 20em, four at 10em. Epeefleche (talk) 00:19, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Then you should see the same in articles. If not, what arcicle? --  Gadget850 talk 00:23, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
The problem for me, on my 14-inch-wide screen, is that refs (where we have more than 10) would look better as two columns. But 30em is typically put into articles where two columns would be better, and result in me seeing only one column. The forced-two-column approach is therefore -- for me, as a viewer on a screen over a foot wide -- the preferable one. Epeefleche (talk) 06:38, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
I get that behaviour (1 / 2 / 4 columns there) when I set my browser window to about 800 pixels with my default font of 16px; if I set the font to 20px, I get the same behaviour at the size you mention, 1024 pixels. Conclusion: 20px is indeed rather large. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:36, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Tx. It's denoted on my computer as "medium" font size. I could make it smaller than medium, but with my eyesight (which is 20-30 ... a reasonably good eyesight) medium is comfortable. But two ref columns at that font size (which I get when 2 are forced, but not at 30em) in long ref lists are far easier to read -- for the same reason that newspapers like the NY Times have many columns. Epeefleche (talk) 06:47, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── That is helpful. Need to add a note about browser font size.

Firefox defaults to a font size of 16px: 30em gives two columns until the browser window is 11.4 inches wide. At 20px, 30em gives two columns until the browser window is 14.1 inches wide. But at 16px, 30em gives three columns on a 16 inch wide monitor. I can't test a larger monitor at the moment, but you would obviously get more columns. By setting the columns to 2, you force it to two columns for everyone.

@Edokter: Would it be possible to add a class so that users could add CSS to adjust the column-gap? Looks like the default is 1em, which is a bit generous. --  Gadget850 talk 09:24, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

@Gadget850:, users can already select .reflist.columns (or either .references-column-count and .references-column-width)to target reflists (or just .columns for other column templates), so there is no need for another class. 1em isn't that much though. The reflist documentation also explains how one can force two columns, see § Customizing the view. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 09:40, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Which is why I defer to your CSS fu. --  Gadget850 talk 09:43, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
I'm doing something wrong here. I can increase the gap, but I cannot decrease it unless I set it to 0. I tried 5px and other values with no effect. If I set it to 0, then the gap decreases but not to 0 (it does seem to fix the problem though). --  Gadget850 talk 10:22, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
.references-column-count, .references-column-width {
    -ms-column-gap: 0;
    -webkit-column-gap: 0;
    -moz-column-gap: 0;
    column-gap: 0;
}
Seems to work on my end. You can remove -ms-column-gap; it does not exist. You can also play with {{column-gap}}, and {{div col}} also has a |gap= parameter to play with. Note that with ordered lists (as used in reflist), there is always a minimum gap of 3.2em reserved for the (decimal) list markers. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 10:48, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
-ms-column-gap was suggested when I edited my JS and added the others. And the list indent is what I was missing. --  Gadget850 talk 11:02, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Number of columns?[edit]

I was wondering, what's the criteria for deciding the number of columns to be used? Is there a rule or is it just up to the editors to decide? Illegitimate Barrister 10:23, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

See Template:Reflist#Columns. Common practice is to let browser software determine the number of columns. Betty Logan (talk) 10:25, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. Illegitimate Barrister 10:32, 27 February 2015 (UTC)