Template talk:The Beach Boys main
Edits of 30 December 2005
I compressed the template as it was unnecessarily large. We don't need every single album and member of the band listed on every Beach Boys-related article. This exact same problem was present on other musician templates such as Template:Mariah Carey2, Template:Whitney Houston, Template:Jackson5 and Template:Madonna, which were all trimmed down in the same way that I edited this one. Extraordinary Machine 18:55, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
I still prefer the template the way it is. It's informative, helpful and not overwhelming. BGC 19:04, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
- In the context of the Beach Boys albums articles, I find the current state of the template neither helpful nor informative. If readers want to find out the names of the members of the band or all of their albums, then that is what the main Beach Boys article is for (as well as the related categories). The template occupies almost the entire display, which is an even bigger problem for pages such as Best of The Beach Boys, where the template is as big as the article. Template:Mariah Carey2 was almost deleted (see Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/Not_deleted/November_2005#Template:Mariah_Carey2) for this same reason, and it was actually smaller than this template is now. Extraordinary Machine 20:46, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
David, Blondie, et al...
I think that David Marks, Blondie Chaplin, Ricky Fataar, and maybe Glen Campbell should be added to the info box. Maybe in a 'former member' section? Or it could be Original members and Added members. (Added sounds horrible, but I can't think of the word I want.)
I am not sure about Glen Campbell... he played on a lot of their albums in addition to touring with them, but it is not like he was sharing in the profits or anything. MookieZ 15:53, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
David Marks should be on the main members list, as I'm fairly certain he was considered a full royalty member when he was in the group, and still makes occasional appearances with The Beach Boys. Blondie Chaplin and Ricky Fataar were never full royalty members (according to Bruce Johnston on the Warmth of the Sun Podcast series), so if they are listed, it should be as a Secondary listing. --Jbo110 17:55, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
- User:188.8.131.52, I reverted back to listing Blondie & the others on the template. I think they should be listed as they would certainly be links of interest to people who come across the template. I also realphabetized the members, as much as I agree that Brian should go first, that leaves open the question of who should be number 2, number 3, number 4... and there are no easy answers for those. So I think that alphabetizing is the fairest way to do it. MookieZ 22:20, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
There's two ways of looking at this. The people under "Members" are all part of the Beach Boys as a corporate entity, the "Former Members" are not. However, Brian, Al, Carl and Dennis are no longer "Beach Boys" in the strictest sense. Carl and Dennis are dead and Brian and Al have moved on. David Marks is more of a Beach Boys now than Al, Brian, Carl, and Dennis combined. If anything, at least Carl and Dennis should be considered former members, being that there is no chance they will ever record or tour with the Beach Boys ever again. If we want to keep the names in the categories as they are, maybe the new names can be "Official Members" and "Auxilliary Members" ? Whotookthatguy (talk) 22:18, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
- I like "Founding Members" (Wilsons, Love, Jardine) and "Xxxxxx Members" (David, Bruce, Blondie, Ricky, perhaps Glen?), although I can't think of anything good for "Xxxxx". I don't like "Auxilliary" because it makes me think of just plain old sidemen. I don't like "Replacement" as it gives the impression that they hired scabs or something. (Also, Blondie and Ricky never really replaced anyone.) "Additional" doesn't sound good. Neither does "Later" or "Future". I don't know, maybe "Auxilliary" is the best choice. MookieZ (talk) 01:02, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
Template Revision to include Lineup History
Suggestions for improvements (don't really like the look/placement):
I'm not sure why Toni Tennille, Daryl Dragon and John Stamos were not added if Glen Campbell and Blondie Chaplin were? I would imagine the three will be deleted, but I have no idea why since their contribution was very similar to Glen and Blondie.Docob5 (talk) 01:02, 19 February 2012 (UTC)
- Changed template to reflect 'Former touring members' as an alternative to not having Campbell appear, but still believe The Captain and Tennille belong if Campbell is listed. Also, added Carl and Dennis as 'Deceased' since they never left the band prior to their death.Docob5 (talk) 03:11, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
- Edited this - it made the template huge and disproportionate. Removed touring members, as these were just a small handful (and yes, Stamos should be listed, love it or hate it) and touring members are usually not listed in templates (perhaps they could be added to the main page somewhere?). I removed the differentiation between deceased and former members because it's usually not noted in the templates, either. When it comes to the Beach Boys, there's a lot of potential for listing touring members to get out of control considering the great number of touring musicians they've utilized over the years. As for line two, I know Carl and Dennis were founding members, were around much longer than Ricky or Blondie, and only "left" the band due to their deaths, but they were all official members of the band. I've listed them in reverse chronological order from when each person was no longer a member of the band.
- This okay with everyone? 184.108.40.206 (talk) 12:33, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Members section of template
This looks like a total mess as is and, more importantly, never looked anything like this during the 14 years that the Mike and Bruce touring band existed prior to the 2012 reunion. The Mike and Bruce lineup only exists as a touring unit. Brian, Al, and David are not active in the touring band, but the future of the band as a recording group is still unclear (Mike said he'd like to write with Brian more, Al and Brian have said they want to keep making records together). To me, all members sans Blondie and Ricky should appear up top (with Dennis and Carl only departing due to their deaths) and no additional notes are really necessary. If any real changes should be made, it would be including Mike and Bruce up top, the members who aren't currently touring in the 2nd tier, and the departed members on the 3rd tier. Since this isn't entirely accurate and is kind of an unnecessary disservice to Al, Brian and David, I'd prefer to keep it how I edited it. Thoughts? 220.127.116.11 :(talk) 00:19, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
- For the most part I agree with you. The one thing I believe that should be taken into consideration is those people that have only general knowledge of The Beach Boys (i.e., "they're brothers", "didn't Brian Wilson write most the songs", etc.). The template offers a quick identification of each BB's current role in the band. To place Dennis or Carl seperate because they're deceased (as previous edits had) doesn't seem to make senese because both were featured in the 50th tour. Since Brian Wilson will likely release new material under his own name, I also think it shouldn't indicate that he's an active member (Al Jardine and David Marks too). So, I think we're more or less on the same page in creating a readable template, it's just how to use the template to best help wiki readers (Beach Boys fans already know what's going on, but what about the non-BB population).Docob5 (talk) 02:23, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
Carl and Dennis Wilson Demotion?
There must be a way to identify / seperate Carl Wilson and Dennis Wilson from Blondie Chaplin and Ricky Fataar. At the current lineup is listed (May 30, 2013), David Marks has main billing, while Carl and Dennis are billed with Blondie and Ricky. This doesn't seem right. Because the two are deceased, they appear to have been demoted to "former members".Docob5 (talk) 12:25, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
- Now that the reunion is over, I'd be in favor of going back to Love/Jardine/Wilson/Wilson/Wilson on the top line, with Chaplin/Fataar/Jonhston/Marks on the 2nd line. Santa Claus of the Future (talk) 14:31, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
- I agree Marks, Fataar, and Chaplin should be on the 2nd line (as far as I know, the only return for Marks since 1963 was the reunion). If you look at the history, most revisions has the Wilson brothers on the top line. But what do you think about Johnston on the top line? How about by alpha Jardine/Johnston/Love/Wilson/Wilson/Wilson?Docob5 (talk) 14:48, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
- I think the top line is fine as is - they are the current Beach Boys, legally speaking. Also, if you're going to include Johnston on the top line, you should probably include Marks too. He's not a founder due to a slight technicality (he wasn't allowed to skip school to record "Surfin'") but he was still there from before the beginning and he can be found on 6 gold certified albums. I'll just put my two cents in and say when all's said and done my vote's for "Jardine Love Wilson Wilson Wilson" "Johnston Marks" " Chaplin Fataar". Jamekae (talk) 17:55, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
How do we measure a band member's worth, which yardstick do we use? Is it their influence on the band's music, the length of their tenure or the amount of success they saw under their time in the band?
Blondie and Ricky turned around the Beach Boys' live show, added an element of funk/gospel/rock to the band and had an arguably stronger instrumental presence than Johnston or Marks did... Perhaps they belong on the top line. However, Bruce Johnston has been with been with the band from 1965-1972 (with a brief absence in 1967) and then 1979-2013, which is longer than Marks or Ricky and Blondie... Perhaps he belongs on the top line. That being said, David Marks has his guitar heard on six of the band's Gold certified albums (without counting compilation albums). That's a world away from Johnston's one with Pet Sounds and even further from Ricky and Blondie's zero... Perhaps he belongs on the top line.
Or perhaps none of them do. As you can see, it gets messy making arbitrary rules for who deserves that top line exposure and who doesn't. At the end of the day, everyone's going to have different ways of evaluating which Beach Boys are more worthy than other. However, there's no way people can argue with who are the founding members (Al, Mike, Brian, Card and Dennis) and who are the members who don't fall into that category (Blondie, Ricky, Bruce, David). For this reason, in the name of keeping things unbiased and uncontroversial, I'm proposing to keep it this way as to avoid future disputes. Jamekae (talk) 15:51, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
- Still not convinced that Bruce Johnston should be listed on the second line. The idea of "founding members" works until David Marks. Conversely, if you use The Rolling Stones template, you will note that Ron Wood is listed on the main line while Brian Jones is listed on the second line. Therefore I propose that we list Johnston on the main line with Blondie, Ricky, and David on the second page.Docob5 (talk) 18:16, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
- I think the way it is now is best, founders/alternates. (I also think David=founder is revisionist piffle, but that's an argument for another day.) Adding Bruce to the top line? Not horrible, by any means. Better him than David, anyway. But that would be a distant second choice behind the new status quo. Santa Claus of the Future (talk) 21:19, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
Acknowledging current Wilson/Jardine/Marks lineup
I think this revision was in the right. Even though it's not really "THE Beach Boys," they're still an increasingly relevant configuration of their past members distinguishable from Johnston/Love.--Ilovetopaint (talk) 03:13, 15 September 2013 (UTC)