Template talk:Titled noble families in the Kingdom of Hungary

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Hello. Please clarify of which "Kingdom of Hungary" are we talking about. Thank you. And what sources is this template using? It seems that user:Csesznekgirl is arbitrarily adding/deleting content (e.g. [1], [2]). SISPCM (talk) 10:14, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Hello. Kingdom of Hungary existed between 1000-1946. I have removed Bassaraba family because they were neither resident in the Kingdom of Hungary nor held an official Hungarian title. I also added the term Dukes, because many families on the list were not Princes (Fürsten) rather Dukes (Dux, Herzog). I am trying to remove unsubstantial claims or mischievous information and adding new families which are listed in the Királyi Könyvek or other reliable sources. Most of the content of Királyi Könyvek (Royal books) is available online here: http://mol.arcanum.hu/digidat/opt/a100513.htm?v=moldigidat&a=start&a1= --Csesznekgirl (talk) 10:24, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

I was imprecise. Bassaraba de Brancovan was the proper name.
Fakirbakir (talk) 10:48, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
But did this Bassaraba de Brancovan family live in Hungary or did they hold Hungarian titles? But anyway I accept Professor Töttösy's expertize and will relist them.--Csesznekgirl (talk) 11:12, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
I think, they did not live in Hungary probably possessed estates there. It is a tricky question :).Fakirbakir (talk) 11:19, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
However Royal Books are also useful, because prof Töttösy's list is not complete.Fakirbakir (talk) 11:26, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Questions[edit]

Hello Fakirbakir. Thanks for adding more families. I am not sure, however, if everything is correct in the princely section now. The Rodt family had no princely rank, only 1 family member was Prince of the Holy Empire as Prince Bishop of Constance, but it was not a hereditary family title. It is something like hercegprírmás in Hungary: e.g. József Mindszenty was Prince in his person, but there was no Princely house of Mindszenty. Hercegh de Hercegfalva this was a Hungarian Jewish noble family, but no indication that they ever was princes, rather untitled nobles. Szöllösy I also dispute the Szöllösy family's princely rank, as I have mentioned in your talk page, I am afraid, a source was mistranslated, probably this one here: [3] where you can find the entry Szőllösy (Herczeg), but it does not mean that the family had princely rank, rather Herczeg was their alternative surname. --Csesznekgirl (talk) 17:39, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

I accept your opinion, we should delete those names in this case, I was confused because of this.Fakirbakir (talk) 17:50, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

As far as I know, in Hungary was not Marquis in hierarchy of nobility...--Yopie (talk) 16:53, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

That's basically true, but some families of foreign origin were authorized to use their title in Hungary and incorporated into the Hungarian nobility and at least on one occasion (Csáky-Pallavicini) a Hungarian Marquis title was created. --Csesznekgirl (talk) 09:53, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Predicat[edit]

The use of predicat (nemesi előnév) is useful to distinguish different families with the same surname, but otherwise we don't really have enough space for them in the template. I will remove the unnecessary ones.--Csesznekgirl (talk) 17:47, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

I am afraid a little bit because to check everything from the Tötösy's list (because it is a wee bit imprecise in connection with the titles) songs an awful tough task. I admire that you are capable to do this.Fakirbakir (talk) 18:06, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Erős(s)[edit]

The family has changed in time the name in Erőss from Erős. They are also barons and counts. See here Elisabeth von Gutmann (look for Baron Géza Erős of Bethlenfalva) and here Almásy Emma Mária, gróf bethlenfalvi Erőss Pálné (only in Hungarian). Ercsaba74 (talk) 11:07, 10 October 2013 (UTC)