Template talk:US county navigation box

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Modification added based on TFD outcome[edit]

Based on this closed TFD discussion, this template was modified so the header changes from "Municipalities and communities" to "Islands, municipalities and communities" on all Hawaii county templates.

I was the one who originally started that TFD discussion in order to delete a fork template that did just that. In hindsight, I forgot about the archived discussions here and here, where it was discussed that the "Municipalities and communities" wording was to keep the templates in a focused scope. Otherwise, lots of other topics would be placed into the navboxes, making them exceeding long by including everything from people, history, government, culture, attractions, and so forth. Maybe we should let the "Islands" slide through because it only applies to the Hawaii templates for now. Comments or thoughts? Zzyzx11 (talk) 17:32, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Sorry I took so long to respond. Hawaii is an unusual case, each county (except Kalawao) is subdivided into islands, and each (inhabited) island is it's own community. This should not be used as precedent for including something like government or rivers. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 11:37, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Addition of a parameter to change the header[edit]

I have reverted the recent addition of a "heading" parameter to modify the header, pending further consensus. Per the archived discussions here and here, it was discussed that the "Municipalities and communities" wording was to keep the templates in a focused scope. Otherwise, lots of other topics would be placed into the navboxes, making them exceeding long by including everything from geography, people, history, government, culture, attractions, and so forth. Adding this "heading" parameter will thus make it easier for people to do just that -- add everything from people, history, government, culture, attractions, and so forth. Can we get a compromise on how to resolve this and keep the scope to a minimum? Zzyzx11 (talk) 20:22, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for reverting the changes. I will let Emmette know it requires further discussion. Thanks! Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 20:26, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. looking at the discussion on your talk page, Plastikspork, it appears that Emmette is trying to use {{US county navigation box}} for the handful of county-equivalents. Historically, we thought it was easier to just use {{navbox}} directly for most of those, like the templates for Bronx County, New York (New York City borough), San Francisco County, California (consolidated city-county), St. Louis (independent city) and Washington, D.C. (Federal District) because they did not need all the features here, like listing the county seats. Plus, it helps the average user or newbie, who are usually unaware of the government status of county-equivalents, and would assume it should be a regular city template like Template:Neighborhoods in Chicago or Template:Houston and thus change it accordingly. Zzyzx11 (talk) 20:38, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Edit request[edit]

In the interest of bi-directionality, per WP:NAVBOX, the link to "county seat" should be removed from the "above" section. Not the actual county seat, but the link to the county seat article. --Rob Sinden (talk) 08:36, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Is that not a relevant link in this context? I have often removed links to plain English words, or untuitive links, but this one seems possibly useful ... any other views on this? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:49, 2 October 2013 (UTC)
As navboxes should be bi-directional, if we link this article, then every navbox it appears on should be transcluded on the article, which is clearly not practical. I'd assume that "county seat" would be linked in the lead of the town article anyway. --Rob Sinden (talk) 08:05, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
I'm not sure this bidirectionality thing needs to be followed so religiously. The linked page is a guideline, and the relevant sentence includes the words should normally also be included, which leaves room for flexibility. Anyway, if there is consensus that the word should be de-linked, then I shall happily implement, but in the meantime I'll put this request on hold. Regards — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:58, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
I do think it is useful for non-American visitors to get a link, so they can link what a county actually is. CRwikiCA talk 18:38, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
I'm not sure the guidance on bi-directionality applies in this case (and the concept is likely poorly named, as the stated description does not suggest 100% bi-directionality for every link in the navbox). The guidance suggests: Every article that transcludes a given navbox should normally also be included as a link in the navbox so that the navigation is bidirectional. A different way of saying this is that the navbox should not be placed on articles that are not included as links in the navbox. It doesn't say articles on which the navbox does not appear should not be linked in the navbox. For example, typical of many county navboxes, Template:Cuyahoga County, Ohio includes links to City#United States, village (United States)#Ohio, and Civil township, but the navbox is not transcluded on those pages. olderwiser 18:54, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
The guideline is incompletely worded and as such only establishes a unidirectional requirement, but I think we can just assume the converse should be true: all linked articles should transclude the navbox, and vice versa. That said, this linked term is a heading, not part of the navbox's content. I'd suggest that excludes it from the bidirectionality guideline. If a potentially confusing term is used as a heading, then by all means it should be wikilinked for the reader's benefit. That said, I'm not sure "county seat" is so opaque a term that it needs linking here. Ibadibam (talk) 19:34, 3 October 2013 (UTC)
I've updated the guideline to reflect this. The use of "bi-directional" makes it clear what the intention is, as does this discussion. --Rob Sinden (talk) 14:45, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
And that is incorrect use of the navbox. We shouldn't be linking like that. I've updated the template you mention, removing these links. All too often it seems that editors forget what navboxes are for. They are for navigation, not information. --Rob Sinden (talk) 14:45, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
I have reverted your changes to Template:Cuyahoga County, Ohio. That template is only one instance. The same or similar usage occurs on most if not all of the templates. You'll need to establish a broader consensus than a small discussion on a backwater page to warrant widespread changes to how these templates are used. olderwiser 15:28, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
Seriously? Linking to "City"? Footnotes? This is not what navboxes are for. I'll say it again, navboxes are for navigation between related articles. Not for information or substitutes for articles. See WP:NAVBOX and WP:NAVBOXES. I'm not proposing any change, just that the navboxes that do not follow the guidelines are brought back into line with the guidelines. Consensus is already on my side. --Rob Sinden (talk) 15:55, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
Yes, seriously. You may have valid questions, but this change has widespread impact on established usage in thousands of templates. olderwiser 16:04, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Geographical features of Perry County, Missouri[edit]


Geographical features of Perry County, Missouri[edit]

Template:US navigation box