User:BD2412/Archive - RfA (first 50)

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Dated (beginning June 1, 2009): 1st-2d-3d-4th-5th-6th-7th-8th-9th-10th-11th-12th-13th

This archive relates to discussions relating to Requests for Administration and Requests for Comment.

Some questions for you to ponder[edit]

Some questions for you to ponder while you're away for the next week or so... have you ever considered being nominated for admin? And would you like to be nominated for admin? If the answers are both "yes" (or even if the answer to just the second one is "yes"), I'd be only too happy to put your name forward once you return (or before, if you prefer). Let me know on my user page. Grutness...wha? 02:39, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I'll try to remember to ask again later :). I must admit that three months in wikipedia is a short time, but you seem to have taken to it like the proverbial duck to syrup water. Good luck with the exams! Grutness...wha? 03:01, 20 May 2005 (UTC)

My RFA: Thanks[edit]

Thank you for your support on my RFA. Now that I have been promoted, I promise to be as hardworking and fair with the admin tools as I have been with the other areas here on Wikipedia. See you around and happy editing. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 00:33, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your support[edit]

Thank you for voting on my RFA. Have some pie! I was pleasantly surprised by the sheer number of supporters (including several people that usually disagree with my opinion). I shall do my best with the proverbial mop. Yours, Radiant_>|< 08:02, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

lots of edits, not an admin[edit]

Hi - I made a list of users who've been around long enough to have made lots of edits but aren't admins. If you're at all interested in becoming an admin, can you please add an '*' immediately before your name in this list? I've suggested folks nominating someone might want to puruse this list. Thanks. -- Rick Block (talk) 22:59, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

  • Thanks, but I'm not ready for it yet. Cheers, -- BD2412 talk 23:03, 2005 Jun 11 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Hi BD2412, I know this is a bit overdue, but I wanted to thank you for supporting my RFA. Thanks to you and everyone else who gave me support votes, I am now an admin. The powers that I have been given have been utilized towards helping Wikipedia, and I want to thank you for giving me that opportunity. Linuxbeak | Talk | Desk 23:55, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your support[edit]

Hi BD2412! Thanks for supporting my adminship! Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:39, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

RfA thanks[edit]

Thank you for your support for my adminship. I'm honored that you took the time from your studying to participate. Best of luck on your exam. Cheers, -Willmcw 06:20, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC)

thanks for supporting me[edit]

Hello, just a quick note to express my gratitude for your support of my RfA. I'm sure I'll become a familiar face on places like the Administrator's Noticeboard and Requests for Adminship, as well as the murkier parts of my new job. "From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked." (Luke 12:48, NIV) Never was a truer word spoken. I feel empowered, yes, but not in the "oooh cool delete button!" way I was kind of expecting. Already I feel the weight of the responsibility I have now been entrusted with, a weight that will no doubt reduce given time. Thank you for believing in me. :) GarrettTalk 10:34, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Same for me. Thanks----Keetoowah 20:30, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Welcome back![edit]

Hi - welcome back to the land of the wiki! Hope the exams went well. I'd like to repeat the offer to nominate you for adminship if you're still interested, either now or in a while once you've settled back down to normal again after the exams. Grutness...wha? 05:20, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

  • Thanks - I deeply appreciate your confidence in my ability to weild the mop, but... I'm starting my new IP-lawyer job on Monday, and I'd like to see how that affects my Wiki-time before I seek any new responsibilities. Besides, the projects that I'm working on don't demand admin powers, and they fairly fully occupy the time I have now! -- BD2412 talk 17:07, July 30, 2005 (UTC)
    • Fair enough. I thought you'd need sopme time to settle back into things anyway. If you change your mind, let me know (and don't be surprised if I ask again sometime!) Grutness...wha? 19:50, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks[edit]

Thank you for your vote of support on my recent RfA. I was quite surprised by the amount of support I received, and wish to extend my thanks to you for taking the time to support my nomination for adminship. -- Longhair | Talk 12:20, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

Yet another[edit]

thanks for your vote of confidence on my RFA. Who's that banging on the bongoes?--Jondel 09:06, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Congrats![edit]

So how did you like the bar exam? I'm sure you found it easy. The NY bar wasn't that bad, i mean i got a 155 on the MBE in Florida so I'm not that worried about it. Anyway, some admins are harrassing me over some shenanigans I admit were kind of silly concerning my nomination for administratorship. However, now they filed an RfC against me here. I was wondering if you could help me out? I know we have edited a lot of legal articles together and it would be a shame if they succeeded in driving me away over some childish incident I already admitted. Thanks and all the best.Rainbowwarrior1977 04:59, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

RFC[edit]

I saw your comments at the Rainbowwarrior1977 RfC; I'm confused though. His law related edits were in the middle of his disruption spree, and his most recent disruption was this morning. Did you mean to suggest that he's reformed since then, or am I totally missing something here? -- Essjay · Talk 15:37, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

  • How was Rainbowwarrior1977 disruptive this morning? His only edits today seem to be responses to the RfC against him. Granted, he's certainly not handling it diplomatically, but he is not being disruptive in the sense of vandalising articles or making pointless VfD's (unless you can point to sockpuppet activity of that type). In any event, it is not merely the quality of his law-related contributions, but the fact that he earnestly points to them in his defense that makes me think that he will behave better in the future. This is someone who knows how to make positive contributions, and I have high hopes that he has discovered that the rewards of so doing outweigh any benfits to be derived from disrupting the project. Cheers! -- BD2412 talk 15:52, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, not this morning; when you spend hour after hour here, it begins to blend together. I was thinking of this, this, and this, all yesterday, as well as the RfA incident which occurred on Saturday. I can respect if we simply have differing opinions; I think an editor who has more disruptive edits than positive ones, and who admits to being the sockpuppet of a permablocked user, is a clear-cut liability, regardless of his few-and-far between good edits (which, by the way, anyone with a copy of Blacks Law Dictionary could have made). -- Essjay · Talk 16:00, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

  • Granted, that's not the best behavior, but tasteless posts on user talk pages are mostly harmless. I concede that he has made some genuinely disruptive edits (including his vfd of Ainu people and his faux admin nomination), that he has often comported himself in an abrasive manner, and the sockpuppetry is troubling. Nevertheless, I choose to maintain my belief that he is on a path to reform. -- BD2412 talk 16:11, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

Allow me to add this. I'm not so worried about the RfC at this point, as I'm sure this is going to continue until the ArbCom is required to intervene. -- Essjay · Talk 03:15, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

  • I'm afraid this guy has figured out how to get under your skin. I'm not backing off my earlier assessment, but neither am I going to put any further effort into defending him. -- BD2412 talk 03:37, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Honestly, I'm glad to see you sticking to your guns. My interest is in seeing the community grow, and it's refreshing to see someone retaining optimism. I truly hope, if adopted, that your solution works. Unfortunately, I can't say I believe it will.

I wouldn't say he's "gotten under my skin"; I just hate to see Wikipedia disrupted this way. -- Essjay · Talk 03:44, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Good Afternoon![edit]

Hello how are you on this, another beautiful cloudy South Florida summer afternoon? As you know, I am relatively new to wikipedia, so if you don't mind I'd like to ask you a few things. First of all, do a lot of attorneys get involved in the formulation of wikipedia procedure? It seems like a lot of this stuff is quite legalistic actually. I'm doing a bit of research on wikipedia policy and there are simply pages upon pages about committees, arbritration, precedent, procedure, motions, etc. etc....

Next, if this Essjay wants to refer the RfC to arbritration, won't that take a long time? And don't you think referring to arbritration after only 2 days of RfC might not be looked at too kindly by the committee. I mean, most RfCs go unanswered it seems, and not only did I answer mine several times, but they choose to ignore everything and simply move to the ArbCom. I think these folks might enjoy all this debating as much (or more so) than they think I do. Take care,Rainbowwarrior1977 19:05, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

  • I'm afraid my experience with RfC's and ArbCom is terribly limited. This is actually the first RfC I've ever stepped into - but I don't think the time frame is unusual. -- BD2412 talk 22:40, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your support[edit]

The mop is mine!

Thank you for voting to support my RFA. I've been promoted, and I promise to wield the mop with good faith, patience, and fairness... except when I'm exterminating vandals with the M-16 recoilless nuclear Gatling mop. --malathion talk 07:50, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Func's RfA :)[edit]

I was starting to wonder when Func would get a nom... Hehe, I had starting wondering about that myself. ;-)

Thank you very much for your support. :)

Please never hesitate to let me know if you have concerns with any administrative action I may make.

Functce,  ) 19:18, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

BaronLarf's RFA[edit]

Thanks for you support on my recent RFA. Please let me know if I can help with any administrative responsibilities, or if you have any problems with the way I use the admin tools. Cheers. --BaronLarf 00:36, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

Not an admin?[edit]

Holy smokes - who would've thunk it? I imagine I'm at the end of a long line of folks who would volunteer to nominate you. -- BD2412 talk 23:28, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you, I'm quite flattered.  :) Hall Monitor 17:11, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks![edit]

Hiya. Just wanted to thank you for supporting my recent RfA. Cheers! --Ngb 19:37, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Hi Whats up[edit]

In case you were wondering the real truth behind all the B.S., you can check my user page now at User:Rainbowwarrior1977. And less than a month before you find out your scores too!Rainbowwarrior1977 06:37, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Congratulations![edit]

  • Congratulations - you really knocked it out of the park! I know you'll keep up your good work here. -- BD2412 talk 17:10, August 23, 2005 (UTC)
    • Thank you again for your support and putting everything in motion. My experience with Wikipedia so far has been a rewarding one, and I look forward to lending a hand with the administrative tasks as soon as I become acclimated with these new features. Hall Monitor 17:36, 23 August 2005 (UTC)


Thanks for the support[edit]

Thank you for supporting my request for adminship. I was granted my superpowers earlier today. :) *shoots sparks across room* Coffee 14:56, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your support[edit]

Hi, just a quick note to thank you for your support on my RfA. I was pleased to see so much support, especially from people such as you who I do not know very well, if at all. Now that I am an administrator I will do my best to please the community’s expectations. Best regards, Sam Hocevar 17:01, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Joolz's RFA[edit]

Hey BD2412, thanks for your vote on my recent RFA, your support was appreciated :) -- Joolz 11:55, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Splash's RfA[edit]

Thanks for the support on my RfA. I was very pleasantly surprised to see so much support throughout the week. I've learnt no small part of my V/AfD-ing and interaction from you and a small number of other editors, so your support is particularly good to see. You really should be an admin yourself, you know, though I know you've decided not be for the time being. Anyway, please do keep an eye on me and my logs, especially while I'm learning the ropes with the new buttons. Thanks again! -Splash 00:05, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

My RFA[edit]

Hi, thanks for voting for me in my RFA. I was really touched at how many people voted for me! --Angr/tɔk tə mi 22:48, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Adminship[edit]

I'd certainly appreciate a nomination; thanks for thinking of me. Unfortunately the timing is sort of bad. If you look at my recent contributions you'll notice I have been much less active than usual these last few weeks. See, I recently moved and do not have internet access in my new place yet. I'm not entirely sure when I'll be getting it, as there are a bunch of factors I won't go into. Now, since I wouldn't be surprised if my nomination proves not to be the smoothest on record, I'd prefer it to happen at a time when I can monitor the proceedings to respond to questions, comments, accusations and the like. If you want to get back to me in a week or so I might be prepared to go ahead then, or have some better idea of when I will be. If the situation changes before then I'll let you know and you can go ahead and put my name forward. Thanks again. -R. fiend 17:55, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Hey, BDA. You know, I'm going to be at my parents house doing some painting for a good portion of the next few days. I can use their computer to check up on things pretty regularly, it seems, and I think that will probably suffice. If you want to go ahead with the nomination I'll accept it now, and I think I'll be able to keep an eye on the process to my satisfaction (though I don't think I'll have much time for real editing here, unfortunately; I am missing it). Thanks again. I've become quite curious to see how this turns out. -R. fiend 17:04, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Bmicomp's RfA[edit]

Well, my RfA has not quite completed yet, but either way, I'd like to thank you for your vote and your support, regardless of the outcome. -- BMIComp (talk, HOWS MY DRIVING) 18:26, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Android79's RfA[edit]

Hey, BDA! Thank you for your support on my RfA.

You're next. ;-) android79 15:30, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

sorry[edit]

Hi, sorry but I had to delete your signature from the bottom of the Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/R. fiend page, as it was out of the place of any discussion. I wish you happiness and prosperity, tho. Cheers! -- BD2412 talk 21:29, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

I voted support. Erwin
  • Thanks - I thought you meant to, but I couldn't move it there based on my hunch. Peace. -- BD2412 talk 04:41, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your vote.[edit]

Thank you for your support in my successful RfA. I hope I can live up to expectations. - Trevor MacInnis(Talk | Contribs) 00:13, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

I thank you for your support for my RfA, We shall surely interact more. I am certain that our association shall grow. --Bhadani 10:54, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

My RfA[edit]

Thanks again for your nomination and support; it went about as I expected (honestly I had a few other names in my mind I expected to see in the oppose column; they probably didn't notice my nomination). Now I hope you'll let me return the favor and nominate you, though I may have to get in line. I know you've turned down several requests in the past (I was going to ask you a while back, but noticed you had turned down a similar request earlier that same day). I can't imagine what you're waiting for; you're obviously qualified, you have tons of experience, and I bet you'd be in the running for record-setting support votes (I believe 112 is the current record). In fact, I have half a mind to co-opt you under some sort of conscription plan. I hope it will not come to that, however. If you're worried that the rigorous vetting process will turn up your DWI in the '70's, your previous cocaine use, or the fact that you never showed up for your service in the National Guard, you really needn't worry. I understand people have attained similarly high positions in the world with problems along those very same lines. Well, let me know. And if you're going to say "not yet" you gotta give me some pretty good reason. Well, I'm off to use my new powers to delete every single article from wikipedia (they tried to warn you, but you wouldn't listen! bwaa-ha-ha-ha-ha!). -R. fiend 17:09, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

  • Congratulations again on your well-earned promotion. As for me, I'm afraid my answer will indeed remain "not yet". At the moment, I happily have my hands full with Wikiprojects, none of which require admin powers. My plan has not changed - I will wait until December, when my current internship comes to an end and I find out which city or state I'll be living and working in next. In the interim, if I see a vandal who needs blocking or a nonsense article crying out for speedy deletion, I'll be knocking at your door. Cheers! -- BD2412 talk 17:58, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
    • You know of course that becoming an admin doesn't impose a time quota on you...  ; ) It simply will mean that when you see those problems, you'll be empowered to immediately act; the time you would otherwise take dropping someone else a note about a vandal or a speedy deletion candidate would simply be spent directly enacting the solution. Are you really that firmly in the "If I am nominated, I will not run; if I am elected, I will not serve" mindset? Postdlf 18:02, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
      • Sir, I am as stubborn as a mule. Besides, December is not that far off (100 days, by my count, and they do go by quickly), and, quite frankly, I have been too busy to do RC patrol lately, so I rarely run across either persistant vandals or speedy deletion candidates. (I have found AfD candidates while disambiguating, but need no special powers to deal with them). So, for the time being, if I am nominated, I will not run; if I am elected, I will not serve. -- BD2412 talk 18:22, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

I came here for another reason, but while I'm here, let me add my $.02; I concur completely with Postdlf. Becoming an admin doesn't mean you have to do anything at all. Take a Wikivacation if you want! It's just another arrow in your quiver of helping maintain the place; think of it as an electric attachment for your broom.

PS: I don't usually check other User_talk: pages (so that I don't have to monitor a whole long list of User_Talk: pages - one for each person with whom I am having a "conversation"), so please leave any messages for me on my talk page (above); if you leave a message for me here I probably will not see it. I know not everyone uses this style (they would rather keep all the text of a thread in one place), but I simply can't monitor all the User_talk: pages I leave messages on. Thanks!

RfA[edit]

Just to say thanks for supporting my RfA. Please let me know if you see me screw up. --Doc (?) 19:04, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

RFA voting[edit]

Your comment about the voting thing made me realise that RFA has run into the same problem as V/AfD - too many professional voters, and these voters are imposing counterproductive rules. Adminship is an editing too, not an administrative tool, in essence. Someone who edits that much has need for editing tools. He has clearly proven he is not a vandal. But I feel like for a lot of people adminship is much more than it is supposed to be. It's all in the name, I suppose. Anyway, a month past my first anniversary at this site and I am talking like an old-timer "back in my day..." I remember when I first discovered adminship it seemed like a big deal, it seemed really cool - back in the days when 1000 edits seemed such a distant goal. Guettarda 14:28, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Whoops[edit]

I was wondering what happened to your RfA proposal - it looks like it already got archived! I wanted to apologize for being so terse in my comment there. Anyway, take care! Ryan Norton T | @ | C 21:14, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

My RFA[edit]

Thank you very much for your vote on my RFA, it is now the 8th most supported RFA ever, and it couldnt have happened without your vote. I look forward to serving wikipedia. Again, thanks. →Journalist >>talk<< 00:06, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

==Who's RfA== Thank you for supporting my masters RfA. He appreciates your support and comments and looks forward to better serving Wikipedia the best he can. Of course I will be doing all of the real work. He would have responded to you directly, but he is currently out of town, and wanted to thank you asap. Thanks again. --Who's mop?¿? 21:01, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

23skidoo's RFA[edit]

Unfortunately the nomination I made yesterday did not go as I had hoped. But there are numerous other contributor's out there who are long overdue from the benefits that administrative permissions can provide. Please join me in my nomination for User:23skidoo's adminship at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/23skidoo. Best regards, Hall Monitor 21:09, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Lots of edits...[edit]

I don't think that I was ever on the Wikipedia:List of non-admins with high edit counts. Part of the problem may be that in the list of Wikipedians by number of edits, I am only listed under "All namespaces" (3067 edits) and not under "Main namespace edits".

Although it would be very nice to have the rollback tool, the pages on my watch list get surprisingly little vandalism and spam. Even then it is almost never part of a large vandalism or spam run, so they are easy to clean up.

On the other hand, I have no interest right now in getting more involved in the tedious backstage maintenance work on the Wikipedia (other than trying to turn the California and Southern California WikiProjects into self-sustaining projects). I have not, and will never do RC patrol. I definitely will not wade into the middle of edit wars or article disputes. I don't want to get involved in speedy deletion work, and certainly don't want to deal with the dysfunctional AFD arena. In my opinion, if you accept a nomination for adminship, you are also volunteering to do your share of the shit work on the Wikipedia as well (although as far as I can tell, out of close to 600 admins most of the work is done less than 50 of them).

So I will keep doing my occasional vandal rollbacks by hand, I'll welcome some of the new editors that show up on my watchlist, and I will very occasionally deal with problem editors (User:Ronald20 is my current project).

Thank you for the offer, but for now I'd rather not get more involved in the Wikipedia bureaucracy. (Please note that do admire and appreciate those who are are willing to do the Wikipedia scullery work.) BlankVerse 04:00, 1 October 2005 (UTC) [PS: My personal opinion is that you should just offer to nominate someone and not add a deadline for a response.]

Quite frankly, right now your message looks a little too much like a threat...Respond or I'll nominate you. You should at least change it to 24 hrs instead or 12 hrs.
(I have been tempted occasionally to go through the list and nominate all of those who say they are interested, but who I know will never come close to reaching consensus [anyone who actually does that should be banned for disruption]. Using a deadline and knowing a person's editing habits would give me an easy out...I'm sorry you didn't really want to get nominated at this time, but when you didn't respond...) BlankVerse 04:22, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
I added my name to the list just because I was proud that I had hit a personal goal of 5,000 total Wikipedia edits (next goals are 2,000 and then 2,500 article edits). You're actually lucky that I did catch your message because I had gone off to dinner and hadn't planned on logging back on to the Wikipedia after I got back. BlankVerse 04:46, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Jaxl's RfA[edit]

WikiThanks.png

Hi BD2412, thank you for your support on my RfA!

Oh, and I disambiguated "album" on my user page per your request. Robert 16:14, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Whoops, I didn't see you had already thanked me for the disambig before. Sorry! Robert 02:06, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Gyrofrog RfA[edit]

I just wanted to thank you for your vote of support in my request for adminship! -- Gyrofrog (talk) 05:04, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your support[edit]

Thank you very much for your support on my nomination for adminship. Now that I have been made an admin, I will do my best to live up to the truest you and the community have placed in me. If you ever see my doing something you think is incorrect or questionable, or does not live up to the standards that should be expected of an admin, please let me know. DES (talk) 15:27, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

My RfA[edit]

Thank you for your support on my RfA. I believe your comments made a real difference in the final outcome. Owen× 22:00, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

My RFA[edit]

I linked up my RfA this evening. Thanks again for the nomination! — brighterorange (talk) 23:01, 7 October 2005 (UTC)


Youre not an admin?[edit]

I was looking through Wikipedia:List of administrators, and I cant seem to find your name there. Frankly, Im appalled. Is there a mistake? Is there a specific reason for this? Is it by choice? Whats up, mmm??? If there is no mistake, please let me nominate you.→Journalist >>talk<< 03:19, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

NOOOOOOOO! Let me nominate :)!!!! (Kidding, if journalist wants to that's fine - or we could co-nominate!!!). Ryan Norton T | @ | C 03:22, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
Much appreciated, but there is no mistake - I'm on the slow track. I have certain personal benchmarks (both on Wikipedia and in my career) that I plan to get past before I'm ready to consider it - which, if everything works out as I expect, will be around the first week of December. Patience pays - after all, time flies!  BD2412 talk 03:25, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
Hope that includes some Featured articles. =Nichalp «Talk»= 07:47, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks[edit]

Thanks for letting me know, I've CC'd Alkivar. =Nichalp «Talk»= 07:47, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Tregoweth[edit]

Thanks...I thought I was losing my mind! He did accept via my talk page; I was on my way to let him know the nomination was up. I'd like to do the same for User:Gene Poole. - Lucky 6.9 05:35, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Ah, gotcha. Tregoweth and I were sort of "instant messaging" each other, so he should be answering soon. Thanks for letting me know so that I can nominate "Gene." - Lucky 6.9 05:40, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your support on my RfA![edit]

WikiThanks.png Thanks for your support of my adminship!! I was surprised at the turnout and support I got! If you ever have any issues with any of my actions, please notify me on my talk page! Thanks again! Ryan Norton T | @ | C 04:17, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

My RfA[edit]

Thank you so much for adding your support to my adminship nomination. I promise not to let you down.  Denelson83  21:44, 14 October 2005 (UTC)