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Michael Collins page edit of December 3, 2013
Hello, Please excuse, I'm kind of new to this editing process.
I did a major re-edit of the main page on Michael Collins (Irish leader). The page is on my Watchlist (I'm able to find that, OK.) I see you turning up there. It looks as if you've responded to the edit, but I can't find your comment.
Is there something there about returning the page to its previous form? And/or some alert about "weight"?
I'll be glad to explain in detail what I've done with the article and why. Actually, I have a detailed explanation already written, but I'm not going to weigh down your talk page with it, in case I'm mistaken, in the wrong place, etc.
Essentially, the article was quite uneven. Some sections were very well done, with good detail. Other parts were basically anecdotes, trivia; not reflective of prominent viewpoints in reliable sources.
There was also a problem with good details that were broken up, out of chronological order, and scattered across different sections, in a way which made it difficult to follow. I tried to use as much of the existing text as possible. But a lot needed to be completely restructured, so that events were described in chronological order.
A couple of bits were just incredibly bad, poorly written, jumbled; more like a high school writing exercise. The section "Personal life" I've completely scrapped & re-written.
OK, woops, just a quick note to say: I've found the Edits History page now. So I think I get it. What it means is you corrected something (I'm not sure what, but probably will figure it out.)
Pardon my error in inserting his last title "Commander-in-Chief" in with political offices. Puma prowler (talk) 21:34, 3 December 2013 (UTC)Puma ProwlerPuma prowler (talk) 21:34, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
- Hi Puma - great to see a new editor getting stuck in! Welcome. There's a couple of things you should be aware of though - some articles (especially in the arena of Irish/British articles) can get a little contentious and editors can disagree, leading to all sorts of arguments. The general area of "The Troubles" is just one such area - and the Michael Collins article is marked as belonging to this area. If you click on the "Talk" tab at the top of the page at the Michael Collins article, you can ask questions and participate in any discussions. You've probably found that already. There's a bit notice there about editing any article relating to "The Troubles" - you should follow the links and understand editing in that area better.
- Now, don't get scared off! The objective is to prevent rows and arguements from spoiling the article, or projecting an unbalanced point of view.
- You can see at the bottom of the page, I simple didn't agree with saying that Michael Collins was assassinated. Most sources (that's why I said WP:WEIGHT) say he was killed. Saying he was "assassinated" is probably OK within the strict definition of that word, but most readers will see it differently. So I changed the sentence to explain the circumstances of his death, in summary form, a little differently. If you don't agree or have other things to discuss or say, the best place is at the article Talk page - cos then more editors can see what we're talking about and might also want to add to the discussion.
- Feel free to ask any questions you like here about general stuff and I, or another editor, will do our best to help you. --HighKing (talk) 23:57, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
OK, that's grand, thanks for the response. Yes, I understand that the controversy on Troubles-related subjects can get quite heated. I just found your Wikipedia guidelines on the Troubles and I think they're brilliant. Very sensible.
I've tried to keep the article as balanced as possible. As you can see, my edit of the section regarding his death strives to be strictly factual and conjecture-free.
QUESTION: I'd love to change the main photo of him at the top of the article. The one shown is particularly uncharacteristic. It was taken in London during the Treaty negotiations in 1921: he was never more unhappy, more uncomfortable (plans to whisk him out of the country at a moment's notice were on stand-by, in case of attempts to kill or arrest him if talks broke down, etc.); and it looks like he was trying not to look like himself. (This was the first time his erstwhile enemies ever got a good look at him; and the prospect of the war breaking out again was still imminent.) He wore his hair differently, used a moustache never seen in any other pictures, and also did not dress so becomingly as usual.
I couldn't figure out how to change the photo. Of course I know we have to be conscious of copyright issues. If this is permitted, no doubt you could point me to the "how to" info. Best regards ~~Puma prowler~~
- Hi, there's a couple of pointers so that the article quality remains very high. I've removed the added link to Sara's Michael Collins site since it fails the guidelines at WP:EL in that it is published by an enthusiast, and not peer reviewed. Since there's lots of published material and peer reviewed material, the website link doesn't make the criteria. Good site though.
- Also, you've added plenty of citations, but be aware (and not saying you introduced any copyvio's) you should be careful that there's no copyright violation occuring - that is, you shouldn't copy directly from sources, word for word.
- Finally, changing the photo is pretty straight forward. You first of all need to upload the file to Wikipedia Commons, and it takes you through the process. You can search for other photos and pics there too - perhaps the one you're thinking of has already been uploaded. After the photo is uploaded, you change the link to the photo in the article. I'd advise that you ask at the Talk page first before changing the photo, and give the reasons you've mentioned above too. --HighKing (talk) 14:39, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
OK, thanks a lot for the tips about photos. Yes, now I see that there's a "Talk" page specific to each article. Probably you're watching the one on MC. So I'll plan to carry on any further discussion of the article there; unless I'm particularly stuck, don't get a reply, etc.
I mostly have not used direct quotations from any source; except possibly a few words in one spot. I believe it would come under the "fair use" principle, as it's a brief quote, used to illustrate a point, in a scholarly non-fiction work (as well as being not-for-profit.) Happy Holidays Puma prowler (talk) 21:22, 28 December 2013 (UTC)Puma prowlerPuma prowler (talk) 21:22, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
Talk page stalking
Whilst talk page stalking as Cailil's is still on mine for some reason I noticed you created the Sir Walter Coppinger article. I made a few alterations such as adding a missing comma and a couple of Wikilinks, though also made two edits per WP:IMOS. Firstly the "Co." to County one, which a lot of ones are still prone to stating as "Co.", and changing the linking of Ireland to RoI to simply Ireland. Personally I'd prefer to link to Kingdom of Ireland as that is what the country was at the time, but IMOS has me tied on that. Otherwise good job on the article! Mabuska (talk) 23:52, 24 January 2014 (UTC)
- Mabuska, thanks for those fixes. I'll be expanding the article over time. Most of the information is spread out over many different books and journals, but I've found a few websites that have great info too. Feel free to pop over and fix anything you see. ---- HighKing++ 14:56, 25 January 2014 (UTC)