User:Brian0324/Archive 2

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Christianity in China[edit]

Hi Brian,

I have seen that you have added Christianity in China recently. I think this article is too much into history, hence I consider it better, if you add to History of Christianity in China article. Kind regards, Sarcelles (talk) 10:34, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Sola scriptura[edit]

There's a question for your consideration at the bottom of Talk:Sola_scriptura#Roman_Catholic_position. --Flex (talk/contribs) 19:28, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for those other changes. FWIW, I still prefer my shorter version of the "RC position" section. --Flex (talk/contribs) 19:48, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Edit war[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svg You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Christianity in China. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors.

Talking to myself?[edit]

Greetings, Brian. Check out my talk page. The IP guy vandalizing The Christianity in China page seems to be saying you and I are sockpuppets! (Although he doesn't seem to have posted it in your page). Hopefully he will be blocked soon, since he's causing quite a lot of grief over there. Anyways, thought I would say hello (although according to the anon guy, I'd be talking to myself..).  :-) Cheers, and thanks for the vigilance on that page. --Anietor (talk) 19:00, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Christianity in China[edit]

I'm not Christian and I've no intention to leave Wikipedia become a vehicle for propaganda. I know very well the issues behind Christianity in China, and I agree with the anonym. He has not deleted "sourced material", he has created a NPOV paragraph using the results of recent polls. --Esimal (talk) 19:19, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

1. Your religious beliefs are not at issue. 2. The Christianity in China article does not reflect the highest estimates and needs correction, because the sourced statements were deleted as well as the source for Sun Yat Sen's conversion. 3. I will not edit this article until 24 hours after my last edit, but at that time I will be bringing back all of the relevant data without deleting Burklin's critique.Brian0324 (talk) 20:20, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you, Brian, that the higher estimates should be included. There are no clear numbers, and the estimates are all over the place, so it's important to include the low AND high ranges. I have tried to incorporate both...just added the higher range without removing the lower range, and I even expanded the Burklin sentence...but I suspect that it will still be vandalized/reverted. Glad there are others watching over the article to monitor and ensure neutrality. Cheers.--Anietor (talk) 23:44, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Holy cow...how you seen the ridiculous unsourced, POV nonsense that is being inserted in the article now? I wouldn't be surprised if the editor's IP address lead us to a basement bunker somewhere in party headquaters in Beijing! It's getting frustrating dealing with it, glad you're watching over the article as well. --Anietor (talk) 19:24, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Just goes to show that people who engage in personal attacks, vandalism, spamming, original research, and violation of the three revert rule in one day don't last long on Wikipedia.Brian0324 (talk) 20:46, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Piper[edit]

Could you throw in your two cents at Talk:John_Piper_(theologian)#Is_Piper_a_Reformed_Baptist? Thanks! --Flex (talk/contribs) 16:23, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Stop war, please[edit]

Nuvola apps important.svg You currently appear to be engaged in ANOTHER edit war according to the reverts you have made on Christianity in China. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xi Zhu (talkcontribs)

Criticism[edit]

I criticise you for your edits, not for your cultural background or your beliefs. --Esimal (talk) 16:21, 19 December 2007 (UTC)


Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Christ Alone.jpg[edit]

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Help in copying images across Wiki, please[edit]

Dear Brian, I would like to put the image of William Tyndale you put onto his entry into the Tyndall article, which is about his family. How do I do that? Could you possibly reply on my talk page? Many thanks Francis Hoar (talk) 13:39, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for adding the portrait. I've now enlarged the section on William Tyndale and the image too - it looks great.Francis Hoar (talk)

Make a Lisu Chruch page[edit]

Brian - I think the solution is that you make a separate page on the Christan Lisu movement in China and link to it from the main Lisu page Wwind (talk) 21:31, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


Vineyard Church of Columbus Page[edit]

This page was marked for notability and redirected the same day. There was no time for notability to even be searched for. If it is redirected quickly again, vandalism will be reported. --James PL —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.170.138.34 (talk) 19:01, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Quotation in Hudson Taylor article[edit]

You've cited that the quotation "Oh, for eloquence to plead the cause of China, for a pencil dipped in fire to paint the condition of this people" is from [China's Spiritual Need and claims]. I was hoping to cite it, however, I can't find it in the source material, seen here: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/China%27s_Spiritual_Need_and_Claims Could you point me to the correct source? Thanks, parelle (a lurker rather than an editor) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Parelle (talkcontribs) 21:17, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

You raise a very good question. In the 2005 book "Christ Alone: A Pictorial Presentation of the Life and Legacy of Hudson Taylor", the back section has a collection of quotes and this one is attributed to Taylor from China, Its Spiritual Need and Claims. However, as I have read both the original edition (1865) and an update from 1883 or so (which is in Wikisource) I was not able to find the quote, either. I did ask James H. Taylor III about this quote once before, but after reading the 1865 edition copy and still not finding it, I may ask him again if he knows why it was stated as such in the 2005 book. So, yes, it is possibly from some other place, originally. I don't doubt that Taylor said it, but I think that it is possibly misplaced in the 2005 work. Hope this helps.Brian0324 (talk) 21:26, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Vineyard Church Notability Concerns[edit]

Good afternoon, I noticed you tagged the Vineyard Church of Columbus with a notability tag. I have been previously concerned about the notability of this article as well as that of Rich Nathan, but my AfD on that subject didn't get very far. Unfortunately, what you'll find is a number of members of the church who are quite sure that their church is notable enough despite its brief history and general lack of mention in third party sources. If you encounter these kinds of complaints regarding the notability, please let me know so I can back you up. Thanks.--Analogue Kid (talk) 22:28, 11 February 2008 (UTC)


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Disputed fair use rationale for Image:HudsonTaylorSpiritualSecret.jpg[edit]

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Congratulations on your DYK![edit]

Updated DYK query On 24 February, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Born Again Movement (China), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Congratulations and keep up the good work! Ruhrfisch ><>°° 22:44, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Lisu people[edit]

Brian - I have reviewed the changes you have made on the Lisu page and the seperation of the Animistic and Christain section does settle my views somewhat. I am not sure that I agree with including Fraser and the Mission in the page or not, but I think that it deserves a rest right now and will leave it as both of us can take time to consider and see if others have opinion.

the one small change I did make is changed regarding fraser that instead of 'influenced thousands of lisu' i changed this to 'worked with lisu' I hope this change is acceptable and you can understand my reasons for the change. Let us revisit this discussion at a later date after reflection by both parties. Wwind (talk) 15:15, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Medical missions in China[edit]

Updated DYK query On 2 March, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Medical missions in China, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 10:34, 2 March 2008 (UTC)


Disputed fair use rationale for Image:NotLessThan.jpg[edit]

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Isobel Kuhn[edit]

If I'm not responding to your comments on the most convenient page, please tell me what that page would be and how to get there.

First, I have to say that I've done some writing in my time, and I'm familiar with American newspaper-style writing. So, I have a good basis for understanding how to correctly write a printable article. So, even though the "Wiki" writing style may be different from other styles, it can't be that different. While the Associated Press Style Book may not be the standard everywhere, it is the template of style for newspapers across America. It's also the style that I know.

Beyond that, I just don't think you understand where I'm coming from, at all. The only thing that I thought you were nit-picky about was your number four. I do understand that the Christian worldview isn't easily understood by non-Christians. Christians speak a lot of Christian slang in their worldview. But all people, everywhere, for all time, Christian or not, "....have eternity in their hearts (Don Richardson)," so that everyone, everywhere, can understand that the people on sphere called, "earth," are living in a world made-up of secular and sacred things, even if certain people don't believe in sacred things or if certain people can't correctly indentify between secular and sacred things. But, I've seen many non-Christians correctly identify that the world is comprised of a secular and sacred worldview in this life, in my 50-plus years on this earth, so that my thought is that this is basic common knowledge.

Also, have you even read any of the books written about Isobel Kuhn's life that can comprise the "Wiki" story about her, especially, "By Searching: My Journey Through Doubt Into Faith" and "In The Arena," considered part one and part two, respectively, of her autobiography? You don't impress me as one who has read any of the books on Kuhn, as noted in her biography. Please, let me challege you to not write to me anymore if you haven't read at least part one of Kuhn's autobiography.

Lastly, I don't think I own "Wiki's" "Isobel Kuhn" article or any of the articles that I've added content to or edited. And, I have taken writing classes in college where my class work has been critiqued with solid integrity. So, I don't think I'm as thin-skinned in that respect anymore. I just bristle though when someone who doesn't seem to know what he or she's talking about tells me that I don't know what I'm doing in a writing genre, when it clearly looks to me like that person hasn't a clue what I'm doing.

I do though apologize for the process being so drawn out on the "Isobel Kuhn" page.

Canihaveacookie —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.92.164.151 (talk) 19:21, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I have read her writing. Not every book. Actually it might frighten you but I've authored dozens of Wikipedia pages about missionaries that I've read only a minimal amount of - Don Richardson, for example.Brian0324 (talk) 21:18, 10 March 2008 (UTC)


Fair use rationale for Image:Isobel Kuhn.jpg[edit]

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Regarding Nee and your understanding[edit]

Hi Brian,

I highly appreciate your contribution to the wiki articles on protestantism and great people of God like Br. Taylors and others. You are in MN and I am in ND, so I think that the distances dosn't matter to verify things and to understand the POVs (things of China and Christianity). I read your comment on the Nee's talk page, and I felt communicating with you.

1. I have studies Mr Nee for more than 4 years now (almost 50 of his books) and articles. I would request you to read his testimony -- Watchman Nee's testimony. It has a lot of facts, information and truths about his life and living (all depending upon one's faith that whether these are really facts, neutral information, and truths or not). 2. You seem to be so much knowledgeable about Chinese mission fields and missionaries of past to china and overall the idea of protestantism but I see that you, yourself have a strong POV about the Nee. 3. In China, the largest (both seen or underground) fellowship of churches are of local churches -- I don't have data on how many but all I can say that local churches are growing very intensely in Mainland, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and other south asian countries. People there are not like "American minded about cults and new religions" (I myself am an India and have seen enough religion in India and know how to expose a cult and to beware of it). 4. The local church is not a cult, neither Mr Nee or Lee was heretic, cultic in reagrds to their teaching and ministry. This is a information age but also a global and plane age. You have tons of information on Nee and local churches but I am pretty sure that if you travel also to these churches and to walk enough to see what they really are and speak and think of God, christianity, you, and the unsaved -- I am sure that your view will become neutral. 5. We all are have POVs, but some POVs are right and factual and some are based on just informations and emotions. 6. Oh that we see that we may see it. And it is this division about which Nee/Lee/others were talking that even after knowing that we are saved and christinas and one in eternity and heaven --our communication seems not to be a brotherly fellowship but rather a secular talk. 7. I trust that you will be honest in findings truths about Nee and particularity about (local church) (not just by reading/collecting information of information age) but by stepping forward in love, truth, spirit, and God's way before assuming that some people are making Nee a "hero" and not "Christ". 8. We all have POVs. Is the Neutral point of view (in matters of God and divine) compromising? Are we compromised? Are we secualr? I am not? Neither I am a member of any cult nor do I consider myself a religionist (or christian). I have only Christ and HIS word, the Bible, which I hold with all my strenght. Thanks. HopeChrist (talk) 19:06, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


Hi Brian, Thanks for your valuable note and response. I agree to most of the things you wrote on my talk page. You don't know how much helpful your responses are to me. From your note on "The Economy of God" to notes on POVs on Mr. Nee's article, all are so helpful and informative for me to understand how Wikipedia article's are written and it should be (on spiritual/religious subjects). (I am relatively new to wiki, english, and POVs issues)

However I am still not sure by what you exactly wish or want on Nee's article on wiki:

  • Many of the things you deleted from Mr. Nee's article were not added/written by me. Nor do I have all the citations for the things quoted. However, as soon as possible, I will try to cite quotes for the things I have written or added.
  • Unfortunately, from my search on Mr. Nee, not many third party quality and trustworthy resources are available on internet and press articles on him and his life and ministry other than the books he has written and talks he gave during his life. I believe, published books (of him and about him) from LSM or any other publisher should be considered as neutral, valuable, and trustworthy resource (for citations and quotes). Thanks a lot. HopeChrist (talk) 02:32, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Work group[edit]

Do you think there would be support for a Christianity in China work group - like the one for Indian Christianity? The Indian project has really helped connect editors and we have gotten two GAs promoted since we began. If you really want to improve the portal, a project or work group is almost a must! I can help with design, you would have to get an idea of how many people would join. We don't need many - 5 or six would be a great start. Let me know what you think. I am doing some final tweaks on the Indain Christianity portal and then will pitch in on the Christianity in China portal. Best wishes, -- Secisek (talk) 02:55, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes Brian, We can help if you want Christianity in China work group for WP Christianity - Tinucherian (talk) 08:09, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

India[edit]

The project is really Tinucherian's baby. I have just been helping him out, as I now plan do for you at China. Once he gives his opinions, I think we can procede - if there is consensus. You must know that minutia like names and graphics do not effect me one way or the other. That is not why I edit here and what ever is fine with me. -- Secisek (talk) 21:44, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

A new graphic almost exactly like yours was settled on by consensus. Work on the name debate is going on now. This seems to be going well! Can Portal:Christianity in Africa be far behind? From a passing chat a few months ago to this: India and China portals up and running! --Secisek (talk) 07:34, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Welcome![edit]

Ichthus.svg Hello Brian0324/Archive 2! Welcome to Wikiproject Christianity! Thank you for joining. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! - Tinucherian (talk) 08:08, 10 April 2008 (UTC) Ichthus.svg
Christian cross.svg Getting Started
Christian cross.svg Useful Links
Christian cross.svg Miscellaneous
Christian cross.svg Work Groups
Christian cross.svg Projects
Christian cross.svg Similar WikiProjects


WikiProject Christianity Newsletter[edit]

- Tinucherian (talk) 08:12, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Christianity barnstar[edit]

The Saint's Star Award for hard work and diligence on the Christianity WikiProject

-This award is for User:Brian0324 for his Excellent efforts and hardwork for the articles related to Christianity in China and Portal:Christianity in China --- Tinucherian (talk) 08:49, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Christianity in China[edit]

To be honest, I find the subject a little tedious and not my field of expertise or interest. The cross-cultural West-East information is somewhat fascinating, but theology and the documenting of the spread of certain ideologies really isn't my specialty. Although philosophy and the history of philosophy sparks an interest in me, I find material history, economic history, political history, military history, technological and scientific history, and social history to be much more exciting and fun to learn about. I found it hard to get even past the introduction of this Christianity in China article; maybe if there was more in depth description of the missions and the attitudes of missionaries and Chinese, then I would find the article to be of interest. Right now, I think I'm going to shift focus from Chinese history to American political and warfare history anyways. So, good luck with this article, if it's something that you've got a vested interest in editing (as evidenced by your barnstar here). Cheers.--Pericles of AthensTalk 22:32, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject_Council/Proposals#Christianity_in_China[edit]

Add your name here ... - Tinucherian (talk) 02:19, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Changes to Indian Christianity Wikiproject/workgroup[edit]

Upon discussion and consensus ( see here) , The following changes and decisions were taken w.r.t to Indian Christianity workgroup :-

  • The scope of workgroup will be limited to Indian region only for now.
  • The workgroup will be renamed to Christianity in India instead of Indian Christianity.
  • The changes will effect the project pages, Portal and the templates.
  • The templetes will be replaced by a Indian map instead of Tricolor flag picture.

This is FYI - Tinucherian (talk) 04:44, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Portal:Christianity in China/Intro[edit]

I got back to you on the talk page there. ʄ!¿talk? 05:38, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

April 2008[edit]

Information.svg Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did to Religion in China (Evidence:[1]). Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. --Angelo De La Paz (talk) 17:05, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

This edit may be disputed but is certainly not vandalism. Assume good faith. -- Secisek (talk) 18:05, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I remove incoherent and mis-spelled statements when I find them and this was a doozy.Brian0324 (talk) 18:10, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

James Janeway[edit]

My name is Hilaire, and I am a student at Simon Fraser University in British Columbia, Canada. I am writing a graduate paper on James Janeway, and would like to know where and how you found the biographical information on Janeway, as it is more than I have found.

Feel free to contact me at hcf1@sfu.ca


18:41, 11 April 2008 (UTC)~

What you wanted[edit]

{{WikiProject Christianity in China/Introduction}} -- Secisek (talk) 22:11, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

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Shortcuts:

Some Wikipedians have formed a project to better organize information in articles related to Christianity in China. This page and its subpages contain their suggestions; it is hoped that this project will help to focus the efforts of other Wikipedians. The goal of this WikiProject is to improve the quality and quantity of information about Christianity in China available on Wikipedia. As a group, we do not prefer any particular tradition or denominination of Christianity, but see to it that all Christian traditions are fairly and accurately represented.

If you'd like to join and become a part of this project, sign the proposal page.


WikiProject Christianity is currently undergoing elections to choose project coordinators. All members are invited to participate. To review the open spots and their duties, see here. To nominate someone or vote, go here. Nominations are open until April 30.

Chinese rite controversy[edit]

I added some text, hopefully it gives the article a nice ending. I de-ephasized the Congregation, in part, because she did not act on her own, in part, because there are conflicting sources, as to which papal congregation issued the papal decree. --Ambrosius007 (talk) 09:15, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Isobel Kuhn[edit]

I haven't looked at the "Isobel Kuhn Discussion Page" for a long time now. However, I looked at it today. What you wrote concerning, "Isobel Kuhn," was amazing, because it was very analytical and made a lot of sense. Yet, how you worked that sense out on Isobel Kuhn's bio page left me scratching my head. I really do understand that none of us who creates/edits Wiki pages owns the page. I've also communicated that to others. However, in my brief time on Wikipedia I've noticed a real arrogance by some people who will let nobody else make the smallest changes to pages they have an interest in; and, they just stiff-arm others from contributing anything, even if it's good grammar. Though, I don't perceive you to be like that.

Now, while you may have been the one to

Um, not sure if you were finished with your thought. Actually, I'm not sure what you are getting at, yet. I'll let you finish before I respond.Brian0324 (talk) 13:52, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Religion in China[edit]

Hi guy!

I am appreciate your Chinese Christian related articles and that's really useful. But I want to remind you that you shouldn't bring the whole article of "Christianity in China" into the main article of Religion in China because "Christianity in China" has got some problems (especially NPOV). And because if you do that again so as I can see that you are making people think that Christianity is the most important religion and the best religion in China although it's only a minority religion here, although it's growing in mainland China but it's also declining among the Chinese communities in Taiwan, Macau, Hong Kong, and Singapore. Sorry to say that but Christianity is not the favorite religion of mostly Chinese people who always respect the traditional culture, native religions and especially our ancestors. I think you are a nice guy but I hope you are listening to me. Thank you so much. God bless you and your family the best.Angelo De La Paz (talk) 20:16, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I do listen. I'm not sure what to do with your commentary about Religion in China. The Talk:Christianity in China page is available if you think that it is still POV. It wouldn't be unreasonable if the Christianity section in the Religion in China article was longer. But I did scale it back - as long as it mirrors the parent subject article it think that it is fairly represented.Brian0324 (talk) 21:18, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

WikiProject Christianity Newsletter[edit]

Image:Taylor_Children.jpg listed for deletion[edit]

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Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Add to the Beauty.jpg}[edit]

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Image copyright problem with Image:ChinasMillions.jpg[edit]

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Disputed fair use rationale for Image:All Right Here.jpg}[edit]

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Orphaned non-free media (Image:All Right Here.jpg)[edit]

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WikiProject Christianity Newsletter[edit]

The Great Tea Race of 1866[edit]

Hi, could you please look on the issues mentioned on the discussion? --Matthiasb (talk) 10:04, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Christianity WikiProject Newsletter - July 2008[edit]

This Newsletter was automatically delivered by TinucherianBot (talk) 09:05, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Image source problem with Image:Anglo_Chinese_College.jpg[edit]

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Carstairs Douglas[edit]

Hi Brian - as a prolific editor of articles concerning Christianity in China, I thought you might be interested in an article I started on Carstairs Douglas, a 19th-century Scottish Presbyterian missionary. Taffy (talk) 18:18, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Sally Kern[edit]

Greetings. As a fellow Christian, may I ask you for examination of an article about Oklahoma Republican Representative Sally Kern? She is currently an object of continuing smear campaign for her critical statements about homosexuality she made few months ago. Is a biblical stance towards homosexuality a sign of "homophobia" or not? Currently one of the administrators have taken side on the issue, which I believe is unfair and biased. Could you take a look at the discussion on the article talk page? Regards. Ammon86 (talk) 18:19, 9 August 2008 (UTC)