User:Rich Farmbrough/Talk Archive Mega

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Scott Shields[edit]

Why is the MyDD article at this article, which I found when I referenced Shields in an edit to the Sago Mine disaster article? Shields is now the director of internet communications for the re-election campaign (well actually he was appointed--so maybe it's an election campaign) of Senator Bob Martinez (D-NJ). I'd be glad to update the article to actually match the title, if that won't mess things up.--Beth Wellington 18:34, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

No idea, it could do with some content. Rich Farmbrough 18:53 3 June 2006 (UTC).
OK, I also left a note for the last person to edit the article. I'll see what he suggests. Cheers,--Beth Wellington 19:15, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Seeking your help with units and images[edit]

My unit formatting script: User:Bobblewik/monobook.js/unitformatter.js sometimes changes image names. For example this edit. Do you have any suggestions as to a change that I could make to stop that? bobblewik 21:20, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I have thought about this problem before, and not come up with a fix. But I now think maybe I can. I'll mull it over over night. Rich Farmbrough 22:26 4 June 2006 (UTC).
Just thought I'd let you know I have written a script to solve these replacement problems, it's under preliminary testing. Rich Farmbrough 07:23 9 June 2006 (UTC).

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About 08:06, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Qohelet "The Prophet"?[edit]

Considering that Ecclesiastes belongs to the Writings, rather than to the Prophets would you mind stating your justification for adding the "The Prophet" to the title Qohelet?

I think that reading Ecclesiastes#"Qohelet" and "Ecclesiastes" would clarify the question.

--Ziusudra 14:36, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for drawing my attention, it should have been "The Preacher". This is an alternative name from King James Version. Reagrds, Rich Farmbrough 15:05 5 June 2006 (UTC).
That translation is already discussed in the next section in the same article, as I mentioned. No point in adding it to the first line (makes it KJV-centric). I would have let sleeping dogs lie. Cheers, Ziusudra 15:31, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Matthew links[edit]

I noticed you are using AWB to wikilink to verses in Matthew. However, most (if not all) of the verses you are linking to are simply redirects. I think the more appropriate course of action to take would be to use template:bibleverse instead. What do you think?--Andrew c 17:25, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I am aware of Bibleverse, Bibleref, niv, wikisource, and one or two others. The slight problem is that none of these are supported on standalone copies of WP or paper copies, nor can we rely on them to always be there. I am also aware of the heateed discussions about bible verse articles. I also think a user is entitled to expect the text (a text) of a bible verse, plus some information about it if they look it up on WP. I am planning on writing a modest proposal, in the next few weeks, to try to solve some of these problems. This exercise is a warm up for that, as much as anything. Incidentally I have just read the article New Testament apocrypha, and am amazed at how much more there is to know about the early church. Rich Farmbrough 17:41 6 June 2006 (UTC).

note {{tl:Sourcetext}}

  • I am aware of Bibleverse, Bibleref, niv, wikisource, and one or two others. -- Bibleref has been deprecated. The wikisource template does not serve the same purpose as the other templates. Having multiple templates with similar function is stupid, I will admit, but seeing as how bibleref is being removed, a single, standard template is probably on the horizon.
  • The slight problem is that none of these are supported on standalone copies of WP or paper copies. Well, WP:NOT.
  • nor can we rely on them to always be there that is why we use templates. We can easily change what site the template links two, as opposed to using a direct external link.
  • This exercise is a warm up for that, as much as anything. Well then, I think you are going about this the wrong way. Make your proposal first, before making bold preemptive changes.
  • I also think a user is entitled to expect the text (a text) of a bible verse, plus some information about it if they look it up on WP. Once again, WP:NOT. We are not a primary source, or a collection of source material (that's Wikisource). We are not a bible commentary (that's wikibook). Once again, if you knew about the heated discussions about bible verse articles, then why are you circumventing the community?

In summary, I feel that if an article is already using one of the templates, and you add in links to the redirected bible verses, it gets confusing. If users are used to clicking on a link and being taken to biblegateway, then they click on your new links and get taken to the main gospel article, it can get very confusing.

This just in, I just looked at your edit history and noticed you creating over 500 blank redirect pages for the verses of Matthew. What in the world are you thinking???? --Andrew c 20:46, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


Miscellania[edit]

I notice you have been editing trivia to miscellania on a number of TV episode pages. Isn't it spelled miscellanea? Why do you prefer this term to trivia? If you wouldn't mind could you please post any reply on my talk page as it looks a lot less busy than yours and will be easier for me to spot. --Opark 77 12:56, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Bother! You're correct, now I have to change them all. I prefer miscellanea to trivia because trivia is stuff that's not worth bothering with, and hence has no place in an encyclopedia. Rich Farmbrough 13:04 6 June 2006 (UTC).
Rich perhaps you should check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trivia regarding the definition of trivia. Dannycarlton 22:47, 6 June 2006 (UTC)


Prayer[edit]

Could you take a look at Prayer. A user constantly is adding a useless external link. I've done my three reverts for the day. It also seems like he's created additional usernames to back up his statements. Thanks. -- Jeff3000 20:22, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Looks like he's got the message. Rich Farmbrough 21:15 6 June 2006 (UTC).
No I'm waiting for someone to explain why in the world the link isn't allowed. Dannycarlton 22:49, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for voting on my RfA[edit]

Mahogany

Before 08:06, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Trivia -> Miscellanea[edit]

I am curious as to why you are mass-changing instances of "Trivia" to "Micellanea". Is this some new guideline on Wikipedia, or is this just your own project? Just wondering so I can be "in the know". Thanks. RattleMan 03:24, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Just a thing I'm doing. However there have been some discssions at Wikipedia:Trivia. Rich Farmbrough 14:08 8 June 2006 (UTC).
Yes, I'd like to know as well. Everyone knows what "Trivia" means but "Miscellanea" just sounds... odd. Very odd. The word is not nearly as friendly. If this is a new Wikipedia guideline, I'd like to know how I could contribute to changing it back. Esn 03:15, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Presumably you're referring to The Kid Brother? I replied to RattleMan on his talk page. The point is that "Trivia" is information which is not really of use or interest. Ideally information that is of interest should be in the article body, information that is not should not be in the article at all. Nonetheless miscellaneous useful information may need a section of it's own - calling that section "Trivia" invites the addition of facts such as "Harold Lloyd took more cream in his coffee making this film, than in the two previous films put together." You may well find a better name than I have used, please change it and let me know. See also Wikipedia:Trivia. Rich Farmbrough 09:28 9 June 2006 (GMT).

Ehren Watada[edit]

I you haven't already weighed in, you may want to take a look at [1]. I'd be intersted in your opinion on th eproposed AfD. Cheers, Beth --Beth Wellington 05:33, 9 June 2006 (UTC)


SmackBot edit to Forsyth County, North Carolina[edit]

Hey, would you mind redoing the SmackBot cleanup on Forsyth County, North Carolina? I reverted the edit because it was on top of some vandalism. Wmahan. 21:14, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Done. Rich Farmbrough 21:30 9 June 2006 (GMT).
Thanks! Wmahan. 21:36, 9 June 2006 (UTC)


Smackbot & External links[edit]

It'd be far more productive to remove bogus external links (per WP:EL) than switch between "External link"/External links". From the edit summary it seems like this bot is run under user supervision - so you could do it?

Getting rid of crap links has value, but stray plurals? Thanks/wangi 23:42, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, the replacement is automatic. I compile a list of articles with more than one link in the external links section by analysing a databse dump, and run the search and replace on those articles. I think it looks bad to say "External link" and have several.Rich Farmbrough 08:48 10 June 2006 (GMT).

Anglicanism and the Anglican Communion[edit]

Hello! I noticed that you have been a contributor to articles on Anglicanism and the Anglican Communion. You may be interested in checking out a new WikiProject - WikiProject Anglicanism. Please consider signing up and participating in this collaborative effort to improve and expand Anglican-related articles! Cheers! Fishhead64 23:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)


Spacing[edit]

Hi Richard!

Thanks for the helpful info. I only just found it on th discussion page. I'll try to work with that in the future.

All the best!


--Amandajm 01:16, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Lists of Bible verses[edit]

Hi, I noticed that you created a number of articles like List of chapters and verses in the Book of Job that consist entirely of redlinks. Do you have a useful purpose in mind for these articles? Since these individual verse articles don't now exist for the most part, the lists aren't really doing anything now ... and even once they do exist, categories or navigation templates would work just as well, IMO. A couple of them have been brought up on AFD ... and, given time, the whole lot will probably be deleted unless there is some reason for their existence. As a reminder, if you should decide that they are no longer useful, you can tag them with {{db-author}} to request that an administrator delete them. BigDT 12:33, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Ok ... there is a discussion going on at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of chapters and verses in the Book of Job ... you may want to mention your purpose there. Userfying them is probably a very good idea, though, as it would save the headache of arguing over what to do with them in the interim. BigDT 12:39, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks[edit]

Thanks for clearing up the Smackbot question I had and for all you and the bot do. Ruhrfisch 13:44, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't know what your proposed Smackbot code is, but see:

Regards. Keep up the good work. bobblewik 17:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

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Category:Council elections in England - wikify dates[edit]

Hi Rich. Thanks for the offer to look at wikifying a large no. of dates on various pages. (Ref: User_talk:A_bit_iffy#Category:Council_elections_in_England_-_wikify_dates)

You asked me to put a list of the articles concerned here. However, as it would take me quite a while to produce such a list, and as all the articles have similar categorisation and naming, I'm wondering whether you could automate that part as well.

All the articles concerned are in subcategories of Category:Council elections in England, and all of the article names end " local elections".

Notes: It's possible some of the articles might happen not to have by-elections listed (because there haven't been any in recent history). Also, a small number of articles have had their "dd/mm/yyyy" dates wikified (usually by me).

Anyway, I hope you can help on this. If you want me to produce a list of the articles concerned, let me know. Cheers, --A bit iffy 11:21, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

That saved days - excellent stuff, Rich! Cheers, --A bit iffy 14:08, 13 June 2006 (UTC)


Some odd formats[edit]

I came across a lot of school articles with odd date formats. See Bear Creek Elementary School and its ilk. Just thought you might be interested. bobblewik 18:15, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

You may want to let him know. It seems quite a few of the BC school articles you're in the process of fixing were authored by one person. --Stephane Charette 23:33, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Pedro Lopez[edit]

Do you know what happened to the Pedro Lopez page? You did a lot of work on it, but it seems its been recently removed for copyvio or some such.--Cúchullain t/c 18:31, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Thansk for letting me know. I hope it is now fixed. Rich Farmbrough 22:35 12 June 2006 (GMT).
It's been marked for copyvio again, but at least this time the editor explained what parts exactly are problematic.--Cúchullain t/c 17:49, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Looking through the history it seems the material in question was actually added by EliZZZa, who runs the site it originally came from. I doubt this new site has the copyright to it.--Cúchullain t/c 01:03, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


Vandal message from AOL user impersonating Jeff[edit]

Stop hand.svg
This is your last warning. The next time you vandalize a page, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. -- Jeff3000 03:59, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
—The preceding comment was added by 205.188.117.65 (talkcontribs) .
The above comment was not by me, someone is impersonating me. The IP is from the US, and I don't live in the US. -- Jeff3000 01:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


wikifying dates[edit]

Hi Rich, I noticed you had wikified dates and years on the article Stephen Harper. I believe it is policy only to wikify the first mention of a particular date or year in an article, ie only the first 1995 for instance. Thanks, Kalsermar 15:38, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

It is indeed a guideline to link only the first occurrence of a link, except where style dictates otherwise. However dates that include the month and day number will format differently according to user preferences, and hence should almost always be linked thus 1 May 1999 (WP:DATES) - bare months, years, days of the week, seasons or centuries should almost never be linked. Rich Farmbrough 15:43 14 June 2006 (GMT).


Establishments by year[edit]

Many thanks for sorting out all the pages using AWB (must find out more) - that's saved me hours of work. By the way, way did you let me know that there is no year zero? I'm in the know about that - has a year cat been created for year zero? Greenshed 20:40, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


World Cup groups[edit]

There is a discussion going on about it. So please don't delete it till there is either consensus or no consensus. Kingjeff 22:37, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


Can you respect me and everyone else who is willing to discuss the proposed deletion? That's all I'm asking for. But please wait for consensus. Kingjeff 22:45, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

RE:Navboxen[edit]

Fair enought. I had not seen it. kalaha 12:27, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Bot account[edit]

Have you ever considered getting a bot account for some of your massive automated edits?--Andrew c 01:04, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I have one (see my FAQ). However every extension of purpose needs to be approved, which means for relatively small tasks (especially one offs) of only a few hundred edits it's quicker to do them manually, secondly my bot account does not have a bot-flag, because there is currently no process on en: for getting one, and thirdly any edit where there is a significant possibility of a human (or other) mistake needs to be done by an non-bot-flagged account, so that it does show up on recent changes etc., this includes manual test samples of big bot runs. Rich Farmbrough 12:17 16 June 2006 (GMT).
Well two things come to mind:
  • Don't edit too fast; consider opening a bot account if you are regularly making more than a few edits a minute.
  • Don't do anything controversial with it.
I think the first rule needs no explanation. (Your "estcattemp with estcat" edits over the course of 2 and a half hours, totalled around 700 edits, resulting in ~4.6 edits per minute). As for the controversial edits, massively changing "Trivia -> Miscellanea", and wikilinking Matthew bible verses to redirect pages, as opposed to using one of the EL templates, or simply avoiding the redirect by wikilinking only the word Matthew and leaving the verse numbers. But you already have a FAQ section regarding your edit behavior with AWB, so I doubt I am mentioning anything new to you.--Andrew c 13:45, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


are you talking to me?[edit]

Hi, I received your message about FIFA 2006. You said:

These artices could do with a Nav-Box in my opinion. I'm to my bed, any chance you might whip one up? Rich Farmbrough 23:26 15 June 2006 (GMT).

Are you talking to me? I don't understand. --Neo-Jay 23:34, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I see. Many thanks. I have added this template to the rest of the group articles.--Neo-Jay 14:01, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


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Template:Tnavbar-mini[edit]

Just to let you know.. I've done the centering on the templates you mentioned. Should be good to go now. ;-) Netscott 14:42, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm actually formulating something like that as we speak. :-) Netscott 15:03, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Let's see how it looks:
New Template:Tnavbar-header

Netscott 15:08, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree... I'm trying to figure out how to make the default background color come through so that the template is universal. Netscott 15:16, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
The argument is defintely a solution but I'm just not sure if adding a third criteria is warranted if there's a way to make a whatever default color come through. You idea about actually using headin= and template=, etc. might make more sense as well... please continue to edit the new template as you see fit in that regard. Netscott 15:18, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
ok, I added a bgcolor= criteria... in accord with your idea... I still think there should be a way for the table color to be "transparent" in accord with whatever color is set by a given row. Here's an example below with the bgcolor set to #BFD7FF (like the Fifa template)
Incorporation of User:Rich Farmbrough's background color idea as found on template Template:Head-cum-Tnav

Netscott 15:42, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for you suggestion about the background color. I couldn't find a more universal solution that'd just have the formatting table be "transparent" to show a given color for a given row and work across most standard browsers. Myself and a couple of other editors had encountered this centering difficulty before and I'm not sure why it hadn't dawned on me to just make a centering header Tnavbar. After I solved the issue surrounding the Fifa templates it became perfectly logical to make one (as you came to the exact same conclusion). With the existence of the new header Tnavbar all of the previous "tough spots" that I recalled seeing previously came back to mind and I went about editing in the header... which is why it's use is already so extensive. Thanks for contacting me about the centering issue and spurring me on in that regard. Cheers! Netscott 11:37, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Statistics[edit]

You gave a statistic for what you call 'bare' years. I am not sure how you define that. Can you let me know where you got it from?

You gave me some pointers to statistics before and I filed them carefully but have forgotten where. I pulled up 40 'Random articles' tested them against my 'dates' tool. It wanted to edit 16 of them. That depressing 40% rate works out at 480,000 articles in Wikipedia. bobblewik 19:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Bot approval[edit]

I have taken a break from WP:BOTS, when I "left" I thought Essjay's proposed system would be put to use and I am surprised it has not.

Perhaps the whole process should be modelled after Articles for deletion. Each bot gets a subpage (intially used for first running approval, and later for flag approval). On the subpage, discussion occurs and an approval group member "closes" the discussion with a decision (after 7 days or whatever). Two distinct sections would be set up on Bots/Requests for approvals - initial run approval and flag approval. When flag approval is granted, the bot operator lists a request at Requested bot flags (linking to the discussion etc).

Or you could just document and use the the last bit - the use of Requested bot flags. This would solve your current flag problem I think (and I don't know why it isn't being used at the moment).

I don't have the inclination to introduce this new method, but maybe you or others do.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Only the owner process is documented, not the approvals group process". Is this asking if a different system should be introduced? Or you want to remove its "arbitrary, virtually self appointed" nature (which is perhaps odd, but seems to work well)? I can't think of a safe alternative that works, and haven't seen one proposed.--Commander Keane 12:18, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Days of the week and months[edit]

Thanks for your comments. You are doing great work, thanks. Incidentally, one of the reasons why I mentioned User:Bobblewik/monobook.js/datebits.js is because it deals with 'month+year'. I just wanted to be sure that you are aware of that. Feel free to ignore it or use it as you think best. No response required. Regards bobblewik 16:52, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

|}

"Vandalism" on Jane Gazzo's article[edit]

Hi Rich. 88.108.227.2 has twice removed relevant material from the article on Jane Gazzo --- which I continue to put back. Any ideas what can be done ? Bests --- Bob Wikiklrsc 15:05, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Rich, for your excellent suggestions and reply. Will do as you recommended. Bests Ever. --- Bob Wikiklrsc 15:15, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Rich, the anonymous contributor User:88.108.227.2 has done it again for a third time. I have done as you suggested, left a message on the anon's discussion page User_talk:88.108.227.2, and on Jane Gazzo's article discussion Talk:Jane_Gazzo, but I fear it will happen incessantly. Unfortunately, I have limited access to the internet in the next while, so it will be terribly difficult for me to guard against it or discuss or revert it. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 17:44, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rich. Thanks for your kind reply. Okay, I will follow your advice. But some administrative action might need to be taken sometime soon, as you and the community deem necessary and appropriate. Bests ever. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 17:51, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay, Rich. Many thanks. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 17:52, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rich. Hmm. Point taken. It is a fan page of Jane's and keeps track of what she is doing in the music and entertainment business, albeit esconced in Tony's blog. "Occasionally acceptable links ... fan sites" in WP:EL might qualify ? Please let me know what you recommend and I will remove the link if it is objectionable by WP guidelines. Or you can remove it yourself if you think it is in violation as I am about to lose my access for the day or next few days possibly. I mean it is a fan page, but informative as to her doings around and it is the only way we currently have to know what Jane Gazzo might be up to. The anon contributor made no such cogent explanation as you did. Many Thanks as ever for you help and kindness. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 18:12, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rich. Anon editor User:88.108.227.2 continues to remove it without explanation. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 13:12, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your help as ever, Rich. We'll see how it emerges. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 16:34, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rich. Anonymous contributor 88.108.227.2 has seemingly morphed into 88.108.130.43 and is adding seemingly spurious information to Jane Gazzo's article. At least, I can't verify that Jane Gazzo has an in-flight radio show on Emirates Airlines (88.108.130.43 mis-spelled this as "Emiritz"), quoting the contributor: " ... as well as the 'Download' in-flight radio show on Emiritz Airlines." I think this is spurious, but I have heard nothing about it, even though it is conceptually possible. I googled and tried to find any mention of it and failed to do so. Also, the airline is Emirates Airline, not as presented by the anonymous editor. I will edit it out and leave it for discussion again. I hope that's the right approach. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 17:50, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rich. Thanks for your kind help in fixing this matter and verifying that Jane Gazzo is doing the in-flight show on Emirates Airline. Bests as always. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 17:31, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Infobox country changes[edit]

Hi Rich,
I reverted your edits to Template:Infobox country. It seems to have messed up the census fields. I did not see what the error could have been. I'd try again in a sandbox. Also, please see Template_talk:Infobox_Country#Census for more details. Regards,—MJCdetroit 21:40, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks[edit]

For your reversion of my mistake on that template. Rich Farmbrough 22:07 23 June 2006 (GMT).

Sense in editing within comments?[edit]

Hi, just a question about SmackBot's edits to List of people by name: Taa-Taj [2]:

You're editing away links inside comments - those are quites taken from other pages via a script, and left here just for reference, not intended to be uncommented ever. Don't know if it's worth it spending even bot cycles on removing them. Your thought? --Alvestrand 21:10, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Your right that it's not worth editing these pieces of text, and in fact they should be avoided, like quotes, template names, image names URLs etc.. The difficulty in doing this is one of the reasons that there are not more bot edits. However I am working on code to avoid these edits, and I believe others may be too, so this should be a thing of the past in due course. Rich Farmbrough 21:16 25 June 2006 (GMT).

SmackBot's bot flag[edit]

Hi. Per Robchurch's approval [3], I have granted your bot a bot flag. Regards, Redux 13:49, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

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PLEASE FOLLOW THE FORMAT[edit]

Please STOP changing Trivia to Miscallania. There was a format that you had to follow. Please stop changing it. Lil Flip246 17:22, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Disagreed. I like "Miscellania" better. "Trivia" is something trivial. `'mikka (t) 18:10, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Lil Flip246:
  1. Please don't SHOUT.
  2. Those edits were a fortnight ago, you're acting as if I'm changing them as you change them back.
  3. What "format" do I "have to follow"?
  4. See Mikka's comment on my talk page. Also see WP:Trivia.
Rich Farmbrough 18:23 27 June 2006 (GMT).
Sorry about that. I was just shocked how everything changed. Lil Flip246 22:15, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Lists of Registered Historic Places in XX County, Michigan[edit]

Hi, I noticed you editing a lot of the dates in these articles. I'm not sure if you're interested in such a cleanup task, but nearly all of the dates on these lists are exactly one month off from the dates in the national register listing database at NPS. The dates there are in numeric form and I suspect that whomever imported the data applied an incorrect algorithm to convert the dates into text. This is why there were dates such as February 31 -- which should have been January 31. Anyhow, ensuring that the actual dates are correct would involve either reimporting the data or massively tedious manual verification and correction. I think it might be best if the incorrect date information were simply removed from these articles. A very very few have been manually corrected, but in my estimation, the loss of such a detail would be negligible. I think removing the month, day portion and leaving only the year would be more than adequate and certainly bettern than incorrect information. Anyhow, I know that you're proficient either using AWB or with a bot to handle such mass edits, so I just wanted to suggest this as a possible project. Cheers. olderwiser 13:20, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

PGNx Media[edit]

Hello Rich, I noticed that you edited out the date links but didn't comment on whether the article should be removed. If you have time, I would appreciate any suggestions in order to keep the article. Thanks for your time. Thinkjose 00:38, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you! Thinkjose 17:38, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


Date Articles[edit]

Bluemoose is using AWB to change back the [[{{PAGENAME}}]] feature you added to the date articles. When I asked him about it he claimed that this "notice" (his words) was no longer necessary, and he reverted my corrections. Whether Bluemoose is correct or not, I do not know, so I thought I'd bring this to your attention. I'd appreciate it if you would let each of us know how the 367 date articles should be formatted. See April 30 for an example. Cheers, Rklawton 15:34, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Mussolini[edit]

The entire article (or most of it) is a copyvio of the Jewish Virtual Library biography. We need to use the information, but rewrite it. It's almost obvious that it was derived from that web site. Aaрон Кинни (t) 22:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Okay. Sorry, but I was confused over this, because it's very difficult to discern if there is a copyvio in play or if ours is the original, sometimes. So should I just reinstate the intro text? I'm not real sure. Aaрон Кинни (t) 22:35, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


Sep11 Wiki[edit]

Hi, I'm Sannita, an it.wiki user.

I've seen you're admin on Sep11.wiki. Just a question: is it possible to find a "downloadble" version of the Memorial?

Just asking you 'cause I'm concerning on creating new articles on 9/11 and I've seen that the Wiki-Memorial is about to close.

I've already copied some infos, but I fear not to manage to finish my task "in time", you know.

So, may you help me? Please contact me on my talk page.

See ya. -- Sannita 23:41, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

"Date fragments delinked"[edit]

Please be careful here. Sometimes you must disambiguate, not delink, as in the case of march. (seePasodoble). `'mikka (t) 18:09, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. Yes, I saw that a very few uses were of a different sort of march (and indeed there is a film called May, among other things). But they don't have to be linked, and being unlinked is better than being linked to the wrong place. Still I am pleased to have achieved edits like this one. Rich Farmbrough 18:16 27 June 2006 (GMT).

Just wondering, but why are you delinking dates to begin with? I personaly don't see how Wikipedia gains anything from having less links to other articles, so is there some style guide or convention I'm not aware of? --Aknorals 09:04, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

It's only worth linking date like entities in a very few contexts.
  1. Where the date is itself important - so that there is value in following the link - decreasingly often as WP grows.
  2. When the text is about the entity e.g. a link to 2000 or 2001 in The Millennium.
  3. When a date includes a day and month, and formatting preferences will be invoked by linking it, e.g. 10 April 1962.
  4. There is also the process of linking to "[Year] [month] in <subject>" via a piped link, e.g. 1999 in television as 1999 - this eventually can suffer the same problem as the first point, and is seen by some as an undesireable Easter egg - i.e. taking te user to a difernt plce than expected..

See WP:DATE for details, and the talk page for 48 archived pages of wrangling over the exact meaning of "links valuable in context" and "the correct use of the non-breaking space" or "the endash". Rich Farmbrough 13:19 1 July 2006 (GMT).


Automated archival[edit]

Hey, I see that you have an automated archival service. Is there a way that I can have it too? bobblewik 12:47, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

IBM Research lab analysis of Wikipedia[edit]

Hi Rich. I ran into this on the IBM Research site. An analysis of some of Wikipedia, what they call a "history flow", to some extent, visually. FYI. [4] Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 13:26, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rich. Thanks for your kind reply as ever. I thought it was indeed fascinating, too. BTW, I tried to put a link and some text to it in the article on History_Flow but it dis-allowed it because the domain alphaworks\.ibm\.com is on the spam blacklist ??? What to do ? One can't update the article !

Spam protection filter From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Jump to: navigation, search The page you tried to save was blocked by the spam filter because it contained a link to a blacklisted website. If you didn't add the link (see below), it was probably already in the current version of the page. Alternately, it might have been added by spyware on your computer.

You will need to remove all instances of the blacklisted URL before you can save.

If you believe that the link should not be listed on the spam blacklist, or that the spam filter is mistakenly blocking the edit, please leave a request on the spam blacklist talk page. The following is the section of the page that triggered the filter:

The following text is what triggered our spam filter: http:(slash slash)www.alphaworks.ibm.com

Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 13:56, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Rich for changing the IBM History Flow tool article so it can be saved and updated. I am not sure, besides the obvious, why the IBM Alphaworks URL is in the Wikipedia Spam Blacklist. (?) [5]. Is there no way of finessing it besides chopping up the URL ... Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 14:53, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rich. Thanks for the information. I guess we'll leave it as it is until further action. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 12:22, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Rich, for the information about the software pointed at in the external links. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 12:25, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Barnstar[edit]

For thousands of your excellent AWB-assisted edits I award you this Working Man's Barnstar. Jogers (talk) 19:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for getting rid of these unnecessary date links. Your work is appreciated. Regards, Jogers (talk) 19:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

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Track listing formatting[edit]

Do you use a regular expression to place songs in quotation marks like this and this or do you just fix it by hand? Jogers (talk) 12:29, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! I guess it will take me some time before I figure out how it works. Take a look at the regexes I use to clean up album articles (User:Jogers/AWB). You may find something useful there. Jogers (talk) 12:44, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
It didn't work properly here. I hope that helps. Jogers (talk) 13:04, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Here is another mistake. And my XML file: settings.xml. I'm afraid that most of these settings shouldn't be used in an automated bot, though. They are far from perfect yet and I still fix many things by hand. Jogers (talk) 13:39, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
There is another problem [6]. "(Die Elektrik)" is a part of the title in this case. I have no idea how such thing could automatically be distinguished from information about composers. Jogers (talk) 14:10, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks a lot! This is very convenient, I used to line them up by hand. By the way, when I make an edit like this I usually remove any remaining characters from the "Reviews" field so the professional reviews section of the infobox doesn't show up. Do you have any idea how to automatize this? Jogers (talk) 15:55, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I'll try this out. Thank you for everything. If you improved any of these settings I would be very glad to know. My improvements and additions are usually reflected here. Regards, Jogers (talk) 17:43, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. I didn't have any problems with "this album" stuff. Some very unusual string of characters must have appeared in the text you tried to edit. The WikiProject Albums discourage from using piped links to "years in music" (see Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums#Style (Dating)) so this is why I remove them. Please be more careful with your edits. Here I don't know what happened, it must have something to do with your settings. Here the term "Album EP" doesn't make much sense. Here the list of reviews got screwed. Jogers (talk) 07:41, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


University of Richmond / Cry_Wolf[edit]

Thanks for cleaning up the year links on the University of Richmond page. But you also deleted underscores in links to the movie "Cry_Wolf." The proper title of the film does include the underscores. I've restored them, but wanted to let you know for future reference. WildCowboy 03:29, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Date links[edit]

On what grounds are you killing all of these on sight? Rebecca 23:18, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

RE: Protect Page[edit]

Hi, I noticed you said you'd clean up articles and preotect pages. You can do the one now, and the other is (should be) extremely rare. Rich Farmbrough 14:58 4 May 2006 (UTC).

Saw on my talk page you'd like some help protecting a page and cleaning it up just tell me what it is and I'll check it out Thanks, Mahogany
What I meant was, you don't need to be an admin to clean up pages, although it helps if you have lots of vandalism to roll back. I was referring to your comments on Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Xchrisblackx 2.Rich Farmbrough 16:57, 4 May 2006 (UTC).

AID[edit]

AIDlogo2.png
Thank you for your support of the Article Improvement Drive.
This week Recycling was selected to be improved to featured article status.
Hope you can help…

about 12:00, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Page of Sweet[edit]

forwenednes f. insolence, ANS 79-89.

forweoren == forworen

forweornan == forwiernan

forweornian to dry up, wither, fade, grow old,

 rot, decay, Æ.

forweorpan³ to throw, cast out, cast down,

 drive off, reject, throw away, squander, B.
 ['forwerpe']

forweorpnes f. migration, MtLl-7.

forweorðan³ (y) To perish, pass away, vanish,

 Mt; AO,CP,Æ.  f. on mōde be grieved.
 ['forworth']

forweorðenes == forwordenes

forweorðfullic excellent, Bo65¹⁵.

forweosnian == forwisnian

forwercan == forwyrcan; forwerd == foreweard

forwered == forwerod

forwerednes f. old age, SPs70¹⁸.

*forweren (WW217¹⁵) == forworen

forwerennes (RPs70¹⁸) == forwerednes

forwernedlice continently, W284⁸. [forwiernan]

forwerod worn out, very old, Æ. [werian]

forwesing f. destroying.

forwest == forewost

forwiernan (e, eo, i, y) to hinder, prohibit, prevent, repel, refuse, repudiate, deny, withhold, oppose, AO,B(y); CP.

for-wird, -wirn- == for-wyrd, -wiern-

forwisnian (eo) to wither away, dry up, decay, rot.

forwitan == forewitan

forwltolnes f. intelligence, diligence. [== fore-]

forwlencan to fill with pride, puff up, CP. ['forwlench']

forword I. n. iota, MtL¹⁸. II. == foreweard

forwordenes f. destruction, failure.

forwordenlic perishable, W263¹³.

forworen (pp. of *forweosan) decrepit, decayed

 OEG2109.

forworhta == forwyrhta

forwracned banished, RB82².

forwrecan⁵ to drive forth, carry away : expel,

 banish. 

forwrēgan to accuse, calumniate, Chr.

 ['forwray']

forwrēon¹ to cover over, LkR23⁴⁵.

forwrītan¹ to cut in two, B2705.

forwrīðan¹ to bind up, LCD 122a.

forwundian to wound, Chr, ['forwound']

forwundorlic very wonderful, GD, adv.

-līce.

forwurðan == forweorðan

forwyrcan (e) to do wrong, sin, Æ,CP. forworht

 mann criminal, CP : ruin, undo,
 destroy, Cr; Æ.AO.CP : condemn, convict,
 curse : forfeit : barricade, obstruct, close up.

forwyrd fn. destruction, ruin, fall, death,

 Æ.CP. [forweorðan]

*forwyrdan to perish, ANDR.

forwyrdendlic perishable.

forwyrht n. misdeed, MF 160.

forwyrhta m. agent, deputy : evil-doer, malefactor,

 ruined person.  [fore-]

forwyrnan (Æ) == forwiernan

forwyrnednes f. restraint, self-denial, continence,

 BH160¹⁰.

forwyrpnes f. casting out, LPs21⁷.

foryld == foreald; foryldan == forieldan

foryrman to reduce to poverty, bring low,

BH.W. [earm]

fossere m. spade. [L. fossorium]

*fōster == fōstor

fōstor n. sustenance, maintenance, food,

 nourishment, Lcd;Æ. ['foster']

fōstorbearn n. foster-child.

fōstorbrōðor m. 'foster-brother,' WW.

fōstorcild (e²) n. foster-child, ÆL.

fōstorfæder m. 'foster-father,' MH,

fōstorland n. land granted for the support of

 the recipients, Ct.  ['fosterland']

fōstorlēan n. payment for maintenance, LL

 442[2];MEN* [**EN small caps] 152.

fōstorling m. foster-child, nursling, WW.

 ['fosterling']

fōstormann m. bondsman, security.

fōstormōdor f. 'foster-mother,' MH.

*fōstornōð m. pasture, sustenance, EPs 22².

fōstorsweostor f. foster-sister.

fōstrað (e²) m. food : manna.

fōstrian to 'foster,' nourish, Sc(ē).

fōstring m. disciple, NG.

fōstur =- fōstor

fōt m. ds. fēt, fōte, nap. fēfc, fōtas foot (as

 limb and as measure), B,LL,NG; Æ,AO,
 CP.

fōtādl fn. gout in the feet.

fōtādlig having gout in the feet.

fōtbred n. foot-board, stirrup, WW107⁶.

fōtclātð m. 'commissura'? MtL9¹⁶.

±fōtcopsian, ±fōtcypsan to fetter, Pss.

fōt-cosp, -cops m. foot-fetter, Æ.

fōtcoðu f. gout in the feet, OEG.

fōtece m. gout in the feet, LCD*[**CD in small caps].

fōter n. darnel, tares, MtL13²⁷.

fōtfeter f. fetter for the feet, WW 1168. :

fōtgangende going on foot, OEG5254.

fōtgemearc n. foot-measurement, space of a

 foot, B3043.

fōtgemet n. foot-fetter, EPsl04¹⁸.

fōtgewǣde fn? covering for the feet, RB88¹⁴.

+fōtian to hasten up, MkL15⁴⁴.

fōt-lāst (Æ), -lǣst mf. footprint, spoor.

fōtlic on foot, pedestrian.

fōtmǣl n. foot-measure.

fōtmælum adv. step by step, by degrees,

 CM 883.

fōtrāp m. the loose part of the sheet by which

a sail is trimmed to the wind, 'propes,' WW
167¹¹.

fōtsceamol (e², e³, u³) m. footstool, Æ.

fōtsceanea m. foreleg, Lcd 1·*362. [v. 'shank']

fōtsetl n. footstool, CHE 1053C.

fōtsid reaching to the feet, NC289.

fōtspor n. footprints, spoor, LCD.*[**CD small caps]

fōtspure n.foot-rest,foot-support, CHR 1070E*[**small caps].

fōtstān m. base, pedestal, Æ.

fōtstapol m. footstep, LPsl7³⁷. Rich Farmbrough 14:40, 1 July 2006 (UTC).

California Adventure[edit]

I uploaded a scan of the back cover http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Music_From_Disney%27s_California_Adventure_%282001_CD%29 before 02:47, 10 July 2006 (UTC)


SmackBot on <i> tags[edit]

SmackBot seems to automatically replace <i> and </i> with ''. This is correct in many cases, where the italics are used for emphasis, but the two expressions are not always equivalent. For instance, Smackbot edited the article Embassy of the United States in Baghdad to remove italics tags around "The Times". In my opinion, this is not semantically correct, because the italics do not indicate emphasis, but instead designate The Times as a publication. Twinxor t 02:47, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Signpost updated for July 10th[edit]

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Please help[edit]

I asked to be unblocked, but David Levy won't budge. I promise not to commit any blockable offenses. CoolKatt number 99999 20:11, 11 July 2006 (UTC)


User:CoolKatt number 99999[edit]

Might be worth considering an early unblock if you think the user is unlikely to repeat offend. Bear in mind, of course, a block is not a punishment but a means of protecting the wiki. Regards, Rich Farmbrough 20:32 11 July 2006 (GMT).

Immediately upon blocking, I offered to lift the block on the condition that CoolKatt discuss the disputed matter in good faith on the article's talk page and not revert again for at least 24 hours. CoolKatt then proceeded to post a message there, threatening to nominate the article for deletion if other editors refused to comply with his/her demands. Since that point, he/she has continually evaded the block (made possible by a bug that's currently being fixed) and threatened other users.
FYI, I reverted the addition of CoolKatt's message because of the aforementioned block evasion. (He/she shouldn't have been able to edit this page.) —David Levy 20:43, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Timeline of fictional future events[edit]

I thought years were supposed to be linked from that article, just as if it were a real "century" or "millennium" article. You recently removed the year links (and eliminated a number of dateth, which is good.) — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 15:27, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I debated putting the years back in, and can do quickly if you think it's a good idea (I was there primarily to deal with the month links). However for the 20th/21st C there will be eventually entries for almost every year, so the value of the links seem limited. Post about 2050 (?) the years redirect to centuries an millenia anyway. Let me know what you think. Rich Farmbrough 16:01 15 July 2006 (GMT).

Dates[edit]

Hi there: I guess I'm wrong, but I thought it was a Wiki convention if a year number was included in an article to make a link of it? Your bot has delinked a number in articles on my watch-list. No problem, just asking.--Anthony.bradbury 21:55, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Most helpful; thank you.--Anthony.bradbury 22:10, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
Rich, I've always adnired your stance on this controversial topic and I wondered if you might be interested in [7]
Apologies if you are not. --Guinnog 22:29, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Bobblewik[edit]

You said: "Just to let you know that those who are familiar with this saga know that Bobblewik isn't using a bot." Is there anywhere were I can read about that? And were did he offer to talk to his detractors? (I guess that last one is his talk page). If you can get Bobblewik to explain why he removed the links he removed on related talk pages or in his edit summaries, feel free to use your administrator powers to unblock him yourself. - Mgm|(talk) 23:14, 16 July 2006 (UTC)


copyvio and ori redler[edit]

Hi Rich. I am going to be out of town some this week, and probably working on some personal side projects. I don't really have the time to track down what User:Ori Redler is doing, but today I had a quick look. I noticed on his talk page that you had asked him to follow procedure in the past, would you mind having a look at his edit history (no comments, natch) and/or helping him out so that we can get the copyvios tagged properly and those tagged improperly removed. I'm starting to think we're losing content to the big black copyvio banner. ... aa:talk 03:41, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

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Smackbot and "delinking months and days of week"?[edit]

Can I ask you a question? I often see SmackBot "[d]elink months and days of week &/or general fixes using AWB". Why would the bot delink months and days of the week? I had always been under the impression that it was good to hyperlink dates so that they would show up in the person's native date format -- e.g., June 26, 2006 is going to appear for me, when I save this and look back at it, like "June 26, 2006" -- but someone might see it as "26 June 2006" if that's how they have it set in Special:Preferences (see Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)). Can you fill me in on the rationale behind this? — Mike 01:48, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

You are right (I do quite alot of date linking for these format reasons), but not as far as things like linking just "Thursday" or "November" are concerned. Rich Farmbrough 08:49 24 July 2006 (GMT).

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Clare Nasir article[edit]

Hi Rich. User:195.93.21.33 continues to vandalise Clare Nasir. I revert it, but maybe there's a bigger problem ? Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 20:42, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind reply, Rich, and help. I thought it might be the case of an AOL vandal, but was unsure positively. Cheers! --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 12:36, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Spelling[edit]

I'm sure this has been mentioned already, but "ISBN formatting problems &/or genreal fixes using AWB" (my emphasis)? Cheers --Pak21 17:29, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Rich Farmbrough 20:36 26 July 2006 (GMT).


Homelessness article vandalism[edit]

Hi Rich. Anonymous contributor, User:66.156.10.152 callously vandalised the Homelessness article, and I had a hard time fixing it since there were some legitimate changes since. It must have gone under the anti-vandalism bot's radar. Seems like a singular event for this contributor. I hope it stays that way. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 17:45, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Lebanon[edit]

Please see Talk:Lebanon for discussion about an edit you made to the Lebanon article. - Mark 04:05, 29 July 2006 (UTC)




weaklypaedia[edit]

Hopiakuta 05:17, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Responding to:

Hi

The picture you refer to is Image:Brothers Baptiste NIH.jpg.

You are correct that WP is biased towards The Western world Male interests Techno stuff English language subjects

On the first point you could look to Baidu Baike, on the fourth to 1 (etc). It is generally reckoned (by the "eventualists") that other subjects (than male and techno) will eventually catch up, and coverage is at least useful.

Perhaps you would like to write an article on Jeunes Agape to put this picture to better use.

Rgds, Rich Farmbrough 23:05 28 July 2006 (GMT).

Your list is:

Western world

Male interests

Techno stuff

English language subjects

Although these biases are bothersome, I have others on which I do obsess more, particularly regarding this photograph.

Please note that in the manner in which it had been presented, where I had originally seen it, on a "policy" page, they had been made to appear as each of:

vandals;

sockpuppets;

thieves;

communists;

others that I can't recall,...

Something seemed displaced, so, I looked closer.

I, suddenly, realized that they had been:

AfroAmerican;

twins;

disabled. None of the other [previous] categories seemed worthy.

I, therefore, felt that this would be confirmation that wiki, Mr. Wales, whatever, are:

handicappist;

antitwin;

racist.

Handicappism is a sort of racism directed @ oppressing disabled, opposing disability-access, enforcing bigotry, discrimination. Try asking politically-active disabled regarding the reaction to handicappist, handicappism.

Please note that it is not likely that these men even would know that we've written about them.

Please explain why you would encourage me to write on websites located in Walmart's favorite dictatorship??

?????????????????????????????????

That is just slightly Northeast of several of Exxon's preferred dictatorships.

As for scribing a better wikiarticle: well, I wrote one about racism. Naturally, it's deleted;

they've even denied me the historylog, repetitively.

It is not always simple to knock-over a wall.

Thank You,

DonFphrnqTaub Persina

Hopiakuta 05:17, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


Żagań.[edit]

Hello, Rich. Could you write an article about my city (Żagań) on Simple English Wikipedia? Kondzio1990 17:34, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Done, just for you. Rich Farmbrough 18:28 28 July 2006 (GMT).
Thank you very much. :-) Kondzio1990 11:02, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

License tagging for Image:Paperdolls.jpg[edit]

Thanks for uploading Image:Paperdolls.jpg. Wikipedia gets thousands of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Wikipedia, the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an image tag applied to the image description page indicating the copyright status of the image. This uniform and easy-to-understand method of indicating the license status allows potential re-users of the images to know what they are allowed to do with the images.

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Hopiakuta 16:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Rich_Farmbrough,

user:Rich_Farmbrough,

Thank You.

You've given me partial success.

Finally.

As you can see, it's been more than a month ago that I had discovered this photograph:

< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:71.102.31.67 >;

< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:71.102.31.67 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jeunes_Agape&oldid=66503755 >;

< http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Long_term_abuse/The_Doppleganger&oldid=59341492 >.

It is, now, beginning to receive some of its deserved honor.

Excellent.

I do hope that if I would suggest edits, they would not be automatically deleted.

Also, now, are you willing to assist me to retrieve the content deleted where I had attempted to create a page to confront this issue??

Please??

How can we prevent this from recurring??

Well, thank you f/ what you've assisted w/ just now.

Thank You,

DonFphrnqTaub Persina

Hopiakuta 16:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


Hopiakuta 16:52, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


User copy of page[edit]

User:Hopiakuta/Racism here with history. Incidentally, if you leave a message on my talk page, I will see it, there's no need to leave it elsewhere. As to the location of WP, it is spread around the world, and people have copies of it everywhere, so theres no need to discriminate against it on the grounds of geography. You may be interested in the articles on Ableism and Disablism as well as [8]. I'm not aware of any any work on twinism. On the matter of the use of the photograph, the page wasn't a policy page as such, and as you may know Teresa Knott removed the image as soon as she was aware of it. I don't think the poster intended it to be interpreted as a literal picture of the vandal - just two people where one was easy to confuse with the other. Similarly on the "female cyclist vandal" page a picture of a female cyclist does not imply that the the vandal is either a female or a cyclist, (although both are possible), that the kitten vandal is a kitten and so forth. Incidentally I was looking for a picture of paper dolls for the doppleganger page and found a GFDL one on Wikia. Regards, Rich Farmbrough 21:30 29 July 2006 (GMT).


Thank You very much.

This is the page that I want,

need:

< http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Hopiakuta/Racism&oldid=65242381 >.

"...if you leave a message on my talk page,..."

If I'd done more, it was to emphatically thank you, honor you f/ assisting me, in a way that others would know that you had come through.

Please do note that many others had not, even where they had suggested that they would.

As you can see from my page history, I only began, successful, comments a month ago. Ms. T. K. did alter the photograph; I am thankful. She did so subsequent to my posting various messages to pages where she had been posting. I believe that that is how she saw it.

I do suspect that that you've made the alterations that you've made subsequent to my messages.

If it was something else, that's okay; but, I do suspect that I'm correct.

Thank You f/ the references.

As f/ your explanation f/ the rampantly widespread racism, handicappism {handicappist}, bigotry, oppression, classism, bias,....

Please check on twentieth-century history:

Roughly half of racism in intentional.

Half is inadvertent.

Frequently, the solutions have actually compounded the original crime!! There are many such examples here.

&, as f/ kittens, if they would learn to typewrite, that would certainly alter this website.

Have you seen the pictures of President Vlad Putin's kitteny navel expedition [not "naval"]??

I do prefer "Tawny_Kitaen | Julie Kitaen".


I do know that we disagree on what the problem is; however, despite that, where may I present it, in a way that actual dialogue shall occur??

I've, already, presented it on many wikipages. I do need someplace better.


Thank You.

Hopiakuta 23:01, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

--Hopiakuta 23:01, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

AWB album fixes suggestion[edit]

Please consider adding the template redirect evasion (Album infobox → Infobox Album) to your settings. Jogers (talk) 09:23, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Added Rich Farmbrough 16:10 30 July 2006 (GMT).

Signpost updated for July 31st[edit]

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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bose Headphone Family[edit]

I know that you have worked on Bose related pages before and I was hoping that I could get you involved with the discussion here! Thanks -- UKPhoenix79 07:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

US as abbreviation for United States[edit]

I saw you've been botting US to U.S.—is this reflecting some new WP policy? I think the version with periods looks awful, and it would seem to fall under the dictum of "leave it the way the author wrote it" unless superseded by some other style rule. /blahedo (t) 05:28, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

The (very old) guidance can be found under Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Acronyms_and_abbreviations:- When abbreviating United States, please use "U.S."; that is the more common style in that country. When referring to the United States in a long abbreviation (USA, USN, USAF), periods should not be used. When including the United States in a list of countries, do not abbreviate the "United States" (for example, "France and the United States", not "France and the U.S."). You can find detailed discussions on the talk page archive. Rich Farmbrough 09:34 6 August 2006 (GMT).

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Vandalism on Clare Nasir's article ... again[edit]

Hi Rich. User:195.93.21.33 vandalised Clare Nasir again. I reverted out the changes. Just to let you know. Thanks and Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 21:46, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rich. Anonymous contributors User:195.93.21.33 and User:195.93.21.67 et al., continue to put spurious material into Clare Nasir's article and her husband, Chris Hawkins. Annoyingly, quite frequently. Any ideas ? Or maybe I'm missing something obvious ! Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 19:42, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rich. Thanks. Umm ... I couldn't at all verify the cake bit or that Clare is leaving GMTV (I would really doubt that). It seemed fiddly, especially given other seemingly lewd article additions by anons to both Clare Nasir's article and her husband's, Chris Hawkins. Wasn't sure what to do. Whatever you feel is appropriate. Please give any guidance to me that you can, besides the common sense I might still possess. ;) I guess I could ask Chris, but that would be awkward given the nature of the additions. Bests and Thanks. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 22:04, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Rich, for all your help and guidance, as ever. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 22:17, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

WHA?[edit]

It seems you put in some very strange spam on the Slipknot (album) page. "Welcome to the Gerbil Cove"? Really.Schwarzes Nacht 13:00, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Try this diff [9]. I've left a {{tl:test1}}. Rich Farmbrough 21:17 10 August 2006 (GMT).


WP:AWB and Yo-Yo Ma Plays Ennio Morricone[edit]

===>Issues While I appreciate you fixing redirects and taking out the unnecessary nowiki tags, your edit on the tracklisting to this album made the formatting much worse. Take a look. You may want to do more previews before saving or figure out some new formula for these tracklistings. -Justin (koavf), talk, mail 15:59, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I knew I'd got it wrong and was searching for the article (I was distracted on the way to edit it). There's also a mistake in one with some Morse code, that I meant to fix manually, and am now searching for. I will find it... Thanks again. Rich Farmbrough 16:04 30 July 2006 (GMT).
found it Moving Pictures (album) Rich Farmbrough 18:08 30 July 2006 (GMT).


9/11 Wiki[edit]

Willy on Wheels has been spotted at the September 11 Wiki. I've reverted his moves, and am requesting that he is blocked. Thanks! timrem 21:06, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


Tracklist Fixes[edit]

Re: Fuhai no Koibito et al. Is hyphen now the official punctuation for separating track title from track length? I always thought it was mdash (three days ago I had a guy going through some pages I watch changing dash to mdash, so your edits come as kind of a surprise to me). I work on a lot of album pages and I'd like to know which symbol to use.

Coach Z Ale 21:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

No, it's ndash. See [Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albums#Track_listing]. rgds. Rich Farmbrough 22:00 10 August 2006 (GMT).


US vs U.S.[edit]

I appreciate that the American usage is "U.S." but Wikipedia convention is to use a common style within a page, and the page on transatlantic aircraft plot is written in the British usage (being a British event), so should use "US". I wouldn't be particularly bothered by this, except there are various paragraphs with "UK" and "U.S." in close proximity, and the mixed usage looks very odd. (And yes, I do realise that the general Wikipedia policy is in the opposite direction.) Bluap 14:20, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


Logarithmic convolution[edit]

Thank you for copying Logarithmic convolution, your help with WP:PMEX is appreciated. I have a remark though. It is good that when you copy things you put a bit more care in how accurately things are copied (1≠ l), if LaTeX is properly formatted, and that the style correspond to existing Wikipedia conventions. I did some fixes which may illustrate better what I mean. You can reply here if you have comments. Cheers, Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 20:13, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I was mislead by the tex source "\ast_l" . Rich Farmbrough 21:39 12 August 2006 (GMT).

Now That's What I Call Music[edit]

Rich, I think that the changes you are making to some of the Now That's What I Call Music entries are wrong, and not to the format described in Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Albums/Archive_6#Various_Artists. If there is an update to this, please point me at it. -- Jbattersby 18:39, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, I'll avoid them for now. Feel free to revert if you like. Having said that, the discussion at albums was inconclusive (as are a lot of discussions in that project - don't know why). Perhaps it's time to give some more thought to updating the guideline page?
Starting those articles makes you a kindred spirit, as I entered and corrected a lot of Now! track listings on the Free CDDB, may years ago. Rich Farmbrough 18:59 14 August 2006 (GMT).


International_Institute_of_Management[edit]

There's quite a debate on the deletion of this article and I've tried to verify what i could, change the tone a bit and weigh in to keep and improve. Could you look at what I've got there and see if the neutrality and verifiability tags are still needed? Also, if it merits keeping? As always, many thanks. Cheers,Your inclusionist pal in the U.S.--Beth Wellington 20:52, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your comment on the tags. It was deleted, but I restored it. The article was likewise deleted. Oh well--Beth Wellington 15:31, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

No probs. My comment wasn't deleted, though. Rgds Rich Farmbrough 11:38 19 August 2006 (GMT).


External link -> external links[edit]

Could you please identify the additional link in the section which was named "external link" on the article Electoral district of Castle Hill? Thanks!Garrie 22:11, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Of course. It is this one:

<!-- doesn't exist yet * [http://www.seo.nsw.gov.au/electoral_districts/district_index/the_hills District profile from the State Electoral Office] -->

<grin> Regards Rich Farmbrough 23:57 14 August 2006 (GMT).
Well that got me lmao. Garrie 00:12, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


Signpost updated for August 14[edit]

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User:Rich Farmbrough/Club Penguin[edit]

Are you nominating your user subpage for deletion? If so, can you use the {{db-author}} or {{db-owner}} tags to be sure, please?  (aeropagitica)   (talk)  22:11, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

No, thanks, Just recreated a delete page for deletion review. Rich Farmbrough 22:32 15 August 2006 (GMT).


coor dms template and AWB[edit]

How did you set AWB to apply the coor dms template? --Shanedidona 14:36, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

<datagridFAR find="(\d+)°(\d+)'(\d+)"\s*(N|S)o(u|r)th,\s*(\d+)°(\d+)'(\d+)"\s*(W|E)(est|ast)" replacewith="{{coor dms|$1|$2|$3|$4|$6|$7|$8|$9|city}}" />
However be careful it's not tested for the southern or eastern hemispheres. Rich Farmbrough 19:24 16 August 2006 (GMT).

Do I set that as a rule in AWB? --Shanedidona 19:39, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

You can paste it into the XML file, or put

(\d+)°(\d+)'(\d+)"\s*(N|S)o(u|r)th,\s*(\d+)°(\d+)'(\d+)"\s*(W|E)(est|ast)

in the left column and {{coor dms|$1|$2|$3|$4|$6|$7|$8|$9|city}}

in the right, tick the regex box. I did think of doing the radio masts with it. Rich Farmbrough 19:43 16 August 2006 (GMT).

Note you also want to change the "city" parameter to something more appropraite,, perhaps "landmark", I can't remember. Rich Farmbrough 19:44 16 August 2006 (GMT).


Linking years[edit]

I started de-linking years after I saw comments made by you to the effect that should be done, but there seems to be some dispute about this. I'm not an expert on MoS, and I wonder if you could add anything to the debate. It started on User talk:Harro5 and has continued on my talk page and on Rebecca's talk page. Tyrenius 05:12, 18 August 2006 (UTC)


ISBNs for Sutton Court[edit]

Thanks for pointing out the ISBN problems on Sutton Court. I think I've fixed tem all but would be grateful if yu'd check.— Rod talk 21:11, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

That was quick. I've hyphenated them. They look fine. Rich Farmbrough 21:21 22 August 2006 (GMT).


Date links[edit]

Debate continues. Tyrenius 21:37, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Mirabilis Media stub[edit]

Hello, made some modifications to the Mirabilis Media company stub. How can I complete the information on this company (shareholders, executives, etc?) and also wehn do we know it's not a stub anymore?

Best Regards.

Welcome to WP. I would suggest you ask for help on the Romanian WP, however there is a book called Who Owns Who that may help with corporate ownership. Rich Farmbrough 11:05 5 August 2006 (GMT).
(It's a judgement call when something ceases to be a stub.)
Thank you for your fast reply. I understand now that being or not a stub it's somewhow relative.
I can continue to edit that article, and I hope it would be accepted, as long as I am the owner of the company. My intention is to write three more chapters: history, internet properties (detailing the websites that company owns, and shareolders structure).
Best Regards.


OK, you should be aware of a few things:
Rich Farmbrough 15:00 5 August 2006 (UTC).

Long Island (Boston) v. Long Island, Massachusetts[edit]

Hi Rich. Question about nomenclature of articles. I basically made an article, for Long Island (Boston) using the form, "Long Island (Boston)" User:Halibut_Thyme changed this to Long Island, Massachusetts without discussion. None of the linking articles linking to it were changed. Any ideas ? I left a note on the contributor's page and no response so far: User_talk:Halibut_Thyme Bests and Thanks in advance. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 13:34, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Aye, Rich, Boston is not only in America. There is the original St. BOtolph'S TOwN (Boston) in Lincolnshire . However, there may be a lot of Long Island's in Massachusetts, as well ! I didn't seed the original article: I just added a lot of material to it after research. It seems to have been a talking point 13 February 2006 in Talk:Enclave#Long_Island. Also, the article links to Long Island (Boston) were left pointing to a redirect instead of the new article. That should be fixed. Hmm. So you're recommending that the main article stay as Long Island, Massachusetts ? Bests and Thanks. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 19:21, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Okay, Rich. Thanks for all the ideas. I am not sure of the statistical distribution of convention in WP for such an ambiguity. I will go all the way and make a 'Long Island, Boston, Massachusetts' article and move it all there. Okay ? And change the links. Ah, glad you're close to Lincs. Nice place. As I remember, Wikipedian Chris Horry (User:Zerbey --- notice in the photo Chris is wearing a NY Yankee baseball hat ... something which is anathema to a Boston, Massachusetts person ;)) is from the original Boston in Lincs ! Let me know that you agree with the move to the new article title. Thanks and Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 21:28, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rich. Done. Move to Long Island, Boston, Massachusetts. Some tidying left with links. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 21:02, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rich. All done as far as I can see. It now is Long Island, Boston, Massachusetts. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 14:57, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi. Unfortunately none of this discussion got recorded on the article's talk page. So I was blissfully unaware of it when I renamed Long Island, Boston, Massachusetts to Long Island (Massachusetts). If I'd known I would have discussed it first. Still I stand by my reasoning - please see Talk:Long Island (Massachusetts). -- Chris j wood 09:56, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Chris. I just wish I had known you were going to unilaterally do this. Oh well. The article should stay in one place now. It's been moved too often recently. I have given it as a reference to historians, scholars, and people at large. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 13:26, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Miscellanea vs trivia[edit]

I noticed a couple recent edits of yours on album pages changing the Trivia sections to Miscellanea. What's the reasoning behind this? I didn't find anything with a few quick searches :\ ~Gertlex 05:25, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

The reason is that "Trivia" is information which is not really of use or interest. Ideally information that is of interest should be in the article body, information that is not should not be in the article at all. Nonetheless miscellaneous useful information may need a section of it's own - calling that section "Trivia" invites the addition of facts such as "Harold Lloyd took more cream in his coffee making this film, than in the two previous films put together." You may well find a better name than I have used, if so, please change it and let me know. See also Wikipedia:Trivia. Rich Farmbrough 20:04 20 August 2006 (GMT).

SmackBot[edit]

Rich, your latested bot task request has been approved: [10]. — xaosflux Talk 15:06, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. Rich Farmbrough 18:59 19 August 2006 (GMT).

"External links"[edit]

Rich, this may relate to SmackBot more than you, but Wiki standard practice is to always make the header "External links" (plural) even if there's only one external link today.

Atlant 00:18, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Sadly even that is no consensus. Rich Farmbrough 06:47 22 August 2006 (GMT).
 :-( . But thanks for letting me know!
Atlant 12:03, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Signpost updated for August 21[edit]

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Signing articles[edit]

Hi Rich. Contributor User_talk:Frank_J_Larkin did a nice job on the Moon Island and Hangman Island articles. He signed his name and town, "Frank J. Larkin Acton, MA" at the bottom of the article. I removed it and left a message on his discussion page. We don't sign articles as far as I know, right ? Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 15:36, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Theta Beta Potata PUNK HOUSE Deletion Review[edit]

Theta Beta Potata[edit]

This article was first started by me and was deleted back in May '06. I was reading the punk house article and saw that the link for the TBP article was no longer red so I clicked on it and there was an article back up, started by another user. I dont know who started it because, it was deleted soon after I saw it. The decision made in the "Article for Deletion" debate should be reconsidered. The article is about a punk house not a fratenal organization. It seems that the debate, run by User:ChrisB and results were reported by User:Mailer Diablo. I will post this on their talk pages. This is the first time I have requested a deletion review so please let me know what else I need to do. If there is anything. I am on wikipedia frequently and I want to learn. Thanks. Xsxex 16:28, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Clare Nasir article vandalism again[edit]

Rich, the moment someone lifted the protection on the Clare Nasir article, User:195.93.21.33 came right in immediately and vandalised it. Oh well. A shame. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 21:10, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Rich, for your kind attention. It is a bit frustrating. Cheers. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 21:17, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I know it was not quite immediately, but it felt so, subjectively. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 21:22, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Happened again, Rich, on 24th August. Vandalised by User:195.93.21.33, again, as is his habit. Reverted, but am at a loss. There are much more important things to do. *sigh* Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 18:26, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Rich, as ever, for your kind help. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 18:35, 25 August 2006 (UTC)


ISBN-'s[edit]

Hi noticed an insertion of - into an art I had been working on, could you point me to the rules on this, as all I have seen to date is the block of numbers on others entries. Thanks. SatuSuro 01:19, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

They are based on a table found on the ISBN Agency's web site here. I assume you know that the first part is language group, the second publisher (within lang group) the third a serial number and the last a check digit.

Regards, Rich Farmbrough 19:04 19 August 2006 (GMT).

Gawd I do hope you dont feel a need to go through my contributions list there are hundreds of arts with the - 's missing :) SatuSuro 13:44, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
Fear not, my trusty SmackBot will be roped in to help. Rich Farmbrough 15:11 20 August 2006 (GMT).
  • Question: The unhyphenated ISBNs work fine for looking up a book, that's what we use in MARC records here in the library, and each one is unique. I agree that the standard says "The ten-digit number is divided into four parts of variable length, which must be separated clearly by hyphens or spaces" although it allows the hypens (spaces) to be omitted for data processing. So far as I can see, the hyphens do help you read the number if you know the code, but are not necessary. Or am I missing something? Bejnar 23:28, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
No you are quite right. To identify the book you need the number, for the extra information you need either the hyphens or the appropriate part of the hyphenation rules. Rich Farmbrough 18:46 29 August 2006 (GMT).

ISBNs in Indian Institutes of Technology[edit]

Hi,

I have fixed all I can find. Can you please check again to see if any other invalid ISBN in the article. Thanks, — Ambuj Saxena (talk) 15:03, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

This one I think is wrong becasue the check digit doesn't match ISBN 81-7033-526-9. Rich Farmbrough 15:08 23 August 2006 (GMT).
The source I used quoted it wrongly. I searched the net and found another source which quoted another ISBN (with a different last digit) having consistant digits. I have made the corrections. Thanks for pointing it out. — Ambuj Saxena (talk) 15:29, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

The Tale of Genji[edit]

I see you changed the hyphenation of an ISBN in The Tale of Genji, but also added a tag for an Category:Articles with invalid ISBNs. I followed the ISBN link, and the A9 (Amazon) search came up with the proper book. Other searches also returned correctly. What is invalid about the ISBN? Neier 23:20, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, the -0 comes up on Amazon.com, but not the -2. The Japanese site that is linked from the ISBN page doesn't seem to care about the final digit at all. 0, 2, 8, 9, all worked. So, you're calculations seem to be correct. Neier 23:33, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Chew Valley & the front page[edit]

Hi, as you spotted Chew Valley is to be on the front page next week. I'm going to be away on holiday & will have no web access so will not be able to counter any vandalism etc - would you be able to keep an eye on the page for me before & during 31st August? — Rod talk 14:42, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Rod, I'll do what I can beforehand, but the main page FA is always closely watched anyway, so have a relaxing holiday. Rich Farmbrough 14:44 24 August 2006 (GMT).

Otago Peninsula[edit]

Hi Rich - I notice you added an "invalid ISBN" tag to the Otago Peninsula article. Which ISBNs are the invalid ones? I have a couple of those books sitting in front of me, and the primary author of the article is User:Peter Entwisle, who is also the author of two of the listed books. Grutness...wha? 03:44, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

According to my calculations User:Rich_Farmbrough\Invalid_ISBNs, The Australian National University. ISBN 0-7315-0342-1. Rgds Rich Farmbrough 07:16 25 August 2006 (GMT).
Then your calculations are wrong. The ISBN on that book is identical to as it is written in the article - look here or here for confirmation of this fact. The same is true of the two books listed at Dunedin Public Art Gallery. In that instance, not only are the two ISBNs identical in book and article, but the books were both written by a primary writer of the article. Please double-check your information, because judging by the other comments below it looks like you are marking a lot of articles at the moment with incorrect allegations about ISBN numbers. Grutness...wha? 00:17, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
It seems the Australian National University has made a mistake and used both ISBN 0-7315-0342-1 (incorrect) and ISBN 0-7315-0342-2 (correct) for two different books. See here and here. Mushroom (Talk) 00:39, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
It also seems Dunedin used two ISBNs for the same book: ISBN 0-473-00263-0 (incorrect) and ISBN 0-473-00263-9 (correct), see here and here. Mushroom (Talk) 00:52, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
OK... that makes sense. Sorry about the grumbling :) Grutness...wha? 01:52, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

SCOTLAND'S FORgotten VALOUR[edit]

Commonwealth --> Commonwealth of Nations for VC's. Thanks for picking this up.

Really the title of the book (and the WP article) is Scotland's Forgotten Valour. To quote the article:

the typography of the title on the book uses capitalisation to contrast emphasis ("SCOTLAND'S FORgotten VALOUR"), to communicate additional meaning, namely a reference to the For Valour inscription on the medal -- and presumably the idea that valour is so much a part of the national character as to justify suggesting that "Scotland exists for the sake of valour".)

If you look it up on Amazon or isbndb, there is no special capitalisation - just Scotland's Forgotten Valour. Colonies Chris 13:35, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Invalid ISBN tag in Evan Mecham[edit]

I noticed that you recently added this article to Category:Articles with invalid ISBNs, and based upon User:Rich Farmbrough\Invalid ISBNs the ISBN that is apparently at issue is the one for the Watkins book. While I do not know what methodology you used to determine that the ISBN was incorrect, I am able to state that the number in the article matches the numbers listed for the book in the Library of Congress catalog and the Amazon listing for the book. The formatting of the number also matches the formatting used on the back cover of my local library's copy of the book. As a result of this information verifying the book's ISBN, I have reverted your addition of the article to this category. --Allen3 talk 15:23, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

The article said ISBN 0-668-09051-6 it is actually 0-688-09051-6, a subtle difference (I have corrected the article). The check (for most ISBNs I have labelled - some have digits missing) is by comparing the check digit (the last) whith what it would be assuming the rest of the number is correct. I don't label an incorrect hyphenation, I fix that. Regards, Rich Farmbrough 15:41 25 August 2006 (GMT).
That's what I get for reducing my caffeine consumption. Thanks --Allen3 talk 15:47, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Battleships[edit]

Hi there; I obviously have no problem of any kind with editors editing articles that I have written: but you have categorised a number of articles originally by me as "invalid ISBNs". And they are not; the ISBN numbers are those printed within the reference books used. Whether they have been changed I know not, but that would in any case not invalidate my point.--Anthony.bradbury 21:22, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Anthony, can you point me to one or two of the articles where I may be wrong? Rich Farmbrough 21:28 25 August 2006 (GMT).
Uneless you have now found and fixed ISBN's in which case, that's fine. Rich Farmbrough 21:31 25 August 2006 (GMT).

HMS Temeraire (1876), HMS Inflexible (1876), HMS Rodney (1884) and Ajax class battleships. I have reverted your incorrect edits - I have Parkes and Conway open beside me as I write, with the ISBN numbers in full view. I hope that you, or your bot if you are using one ,will not feel the need to make similar incorrect edits on the other sixty or so ship articles I have written?--Anthony.bradbury 21:43, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Newton's identities[edit]

Hi, Rich, what precisely is the problem with the ISBN's? I obtained them directly from the books themselves. Did someone vandalize them since I added them, or what? ---CH 21:37, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I've met Peter Cameron at QMC. Back on topic 981-02-4561-6 seems to be wrong as I calculate the check digit to be 0 (assuming the rest were correct), and indeed our own Schur polynomial, written by you (grin) confirms that it should be 981-02-4541-6. Rich Farmbrough 21:43 25 August 2006 (GMT).

See you were right about Landau & Lifschitz Classical Theory of Fields. I just changed last digit. The UW Library catalog gives another ISBN, probably because they have hardcover and I used the paperback Pergamon fourth edition.

Peter Cameron: good oh! I really enjoy his papers and books, in fact I am getting back into permutation groups at the moment (see Erlangen Program). Thanks for checking. Obviously I have been somewhat hasty in adding some of the ISBNs.---CH 21:48, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

ISBNs[edit]

Looking at other recent entries on your talk page, it is clear that I am not alone in my dismay at your approach to ISBNs. May i suggest that you review your procedures?--Anthony.bradbury 21:45, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Read the entries, and see who was right. Rich Farmbrough 21:49 25 August 2006 (GMT).
Rich, I am not trying to start a fight; I am just saying that the ISBN numbers on the articles which I authored are the numbers printed on the flyleaves of the reference books in question. If they are printed wrong, so be it. Conway comes in five volumes;the volume from which I am drawing data relates to ships built between 1860 and 1905.--Anthony.bradbury 21:58, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the info. I just want to get to the bottom of this, of course I can have made a mistake. Rich Farmbrough 22:03 25 August 2006 (GMT).

Does the number vary with the year of publication? My copy of this volume is dated 1979 (Conway Maritime Press Ltd).--Anthony.bradbury 22:11, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

It can do if it's a different edition, I need to go back a step, though:

OK, let's see these are the HMS articles I found problems with

  1. HMS Electra (H27) ISBN 0-8600-7300-0 : 9 (HMS Electra (Frederick Miller Ltd, London, 1959)) get to that later.
  2. HMS Inflexible (1876) ISBN 0-85952-6043 : 6 - this is Parkes some other articles e.g. Nathaniel Barnaby it is ISBN 0-85052-6043
  3. HMS Polychrest ISBN 0000649916 : 0 (spurious zero - fixed.)
  4. HMS Rodney (1884) ISBN 09-85052-604 : 0 - this is Parkes with an extra "9"
  5. HMS Temeraire (1876) ISBN 09-85052-604 : 0 - this is Parkes with an extra "9"

So summary is Parkes is ISBN 0-85052-6043

RgdsRich Farmbrough 22:24 25 August 2006 (GMT).

Whatever you say. I make no comment about HMS Electra or HMS Polychrest, which I played no part in creating. As for Rodney, Temeraire and Inflexible, I just copied the printed ISBN on the inside cover of the book. It is 0-85052-6043 (Parkes} as all the articles state. If your calculations give a different number, then either your calculations or my printed copy of the book is wrong. Best wishes.--Anthony.bradbury 22:33, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Anthony, it doesn't really matter, since all the articles are now fixed, but the last number you gave me is correct (bar a hyphen) and the articles were wrong, as my calculations suggested. "Inflexible" you fixed (but you labelled the fix a revert - having thought I changed the number, which I didn't), the other two I've removed the spurious "9" they now start 0-8 not 09-8. Regards. Rich Farmbrough 22:54 25 August 2006 (GMT).

No. I am sorry, and if my copy of the book is wrong then fair enough. But the hyphen is NOT wrong. The ISBN number for Parkes is 0-85052-6043. It is NOT 0-85052-604-3. Or the book is wrong. I am sitting here with it in front of me.--Anthony.bradbury 23:01, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
OK that's interesting, thanks. Rich Farmbrough 23:07 25 August 2006 (GMT).
And yes, the book should have the hyphen. Rich Farmbrough 23:12 25 August 2006 (GMT).

Ok, fine. But on my word of honour, it doesn't. Obviously you know what you are talking about. But I don't. Could you please tell me why you are so sure that you are right and the book is wrong?--Anthony.bradbury 23:16, 25 August 2006 (UTC)


Yes of course, I would have anyway but I didn't want to bore you. An ISBN is made up of four parts, the first identifies the "language area" a sort of nebulous concept, but 0 is English for example, However this part can be longer so that 99451 (or something like it) represents Congo . This means you can have lots of books in the English (or French - 2) sections, and not so many in the Congo - which makes sense. The next chunk is the publisher, and the same system applies. "Big" publishers get short numbers like Penguin - 14, and Yale I think 300. Then you get a serial number chosen by the publisher, this takes it to 9 digits, for example 0-593-01518 is an English book by Bantam Press, and probably their 1518th book. The last part is a check digit (or X) in this case 5 so the full ISBN is 0-593-01518-5. So that is what the four parts are. As to layout, the international ISBN agency "ISBN User Manual" states "The ten-digit number is divided into four parts of variable length, which must be separated clearly by hyphens or spaces" although it allows these to be omitted for internal data processing. (On Wikipedia we can't use spaces, because the ISBN magic doesn't work with them.) (Incidentally looking at a book on my desk, the ISBN is correctly hyphenated on the back above the bar code, and in the book's publishing data page, but not on the inside flap.) To confuse matters this will be changing on 1st Jan 2007, with the addition of a 978- before all ISBNs to make them compatible with EANs and allow more numbers to be introduced later with a 979- prefix.

Hope that makes sense, Rich Farmbrough 23:39 25 August 2006 (GMT).

Fair enough. Totally fair enough. I will insert the hyphen in all future articles, and go back and retro-insert it in the previous ones. But not now, because its time for bed!--Anthony.bradbury 23:50, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Me too!

ISBNs again[edit]

Hi--Exactly what is wrong with the ISBN 0-89886-238-8, which is the corrected entry I put on the Masherbrum page, which matches the LOC and Amazon, and which checks out (I cut and pasted into an auto-ISBN checker)? Thanks, Spireguy 22:22, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, your correction was correct, thanks for fixing it. Timing error on my part. Rich Farmbrough 22:28 25 August 2006 (GMT).

Articles with invalid ISBNs[edit]

You have now added this category to a number of articles for which I provided references. What is that about? I entered the ISBN numbers exactly as they appeared in the books. I find it hard to believe that so many of the ISBNs for books that I've used as references are invalid. -- Donald Albury(Talk) 23:20, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Donald, can you give me an example or two, preferably on my talk page (click my surname).Rich Farmbrough 23:42 25 August 2006 (GMT).
I see now that they all involve the same library book. Let me check it out tomorrow and get back to you. - Donald Albury(Talk) 23:53, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Sorry to have bothered you. I've got them sorted now, including one or two articles you hadn't visited yet. -- Donald Albury 20:30, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Good work. Rich Farmbrough 20:31 26 August 2006 (GMT).

Another timing error[edit]

Hogan Cup - I noticed the error when you listed it and fixed it, and you then added the article to ones with incorrect ISBN's, even though it had already been fixed. While checking ISBN's is very useful, I would suggest that you either adding the category when checking, or double check if adding it at a later date. Otherwise, if it is fixed in the time between checking and categorising, no one knows why you're adding the category. Might I suggest a HTML comment in the form of "add cat + <-- please check isbn's xxxxx-xxx-xxxxx and yyyy-yyyy-yyyyy --> which would cover most cases, and also let people know what isbn's are invalid where there are a lot of them). Regards, MartinRe 23:50, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Martin. Rich Farmbrough 23:53 25 August 2006 (GMT).

FYI, Smackbot detecting unfilled out infobox book[edit]

I noticed on this page: Alanna: The First Adventure that the invalid ISBN template got added due to the editor copying Wikipedia:WikiProject_Novels/ArticleTemplate without modifying this line:

 | isbn           = ~ISBN ~999999999~ (~hardcover~ edition) (prefer 1st edition)~

That line doesn't get displayed on the infobox when they forget to edit, so you are probably safe to leave it alone.

Thanks, RainbowCrane | Talk 02:10, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks that's a useful tip. Rich Farmbrough 15:53 26 August 2006 (GMT).

Actually it was this bit:

< !-- ==Release details== -->
< !-- ~*year, country, publisher ISBN 1234567890, Pub date DD Month Year, binding~ -->
< !--major publication history to be included here, not everything if too extensive-->
< !--example-->
< !--*1999, USA, C.S. Black & sons ISBN 8768768760, Pub date 1 April 1999, Hardback -->

I think. All similar examples have been dealt with. Rich Farmbrough 09:33 31 August 2006 (GMT).

ISBN.[edit]

What's wrong with the ISBN numbers at Robert Sheaffer? I got them directly from the book. Bubba73 (talk), 02:50, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Ditto on Kendrick Frazier. Bubba73 (talk), 02:52, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Whoops. I found a typo in the second one. I'll check the other one. Bubba73 (talk), 02:58, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Ditto. Both were my typos. Sorry about that.  !Bubba73 (talk), 03:03, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

It would be useful if you would mark which ISBNs are flawed, instead of just that there is a bad ISBN in an article. Some of these have a lot of ISBNs. - Jmabel | Talk 05:31, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

For example here you added Category:Articles with invalid ISBNs to Vilna Troupe. There are only two ISBNs in the article. Both look valid to me, and the University of Chicago appears to have both books ([11] [12]). - Jmabel | Talk 06:33, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
Hi, unfortunately this is not simple. And I'm sorry I re-added this to the category after you had fixed it, that was a mistake on my part. However if you look at Category:Articles with invalid ISBNs you will see a pointer to Rich_Farmbrough%5CInvalid_ISBNs where you can look up most of the articles currently in the category and find that in Vilna Troupe the problem ISBN identified was ISBN 973982722 1 whose check digit computes to 5 (as corrected by you). Thanks for fixing the ISBN and sorry again for readding the article. Rich Farmbrough 16:54 26 August 2006 (GMT).
Hmm. Would it be possible instead of just adding a category to add a template with a link to that page (or an equivalent in Wikipedia space)? It would make it easier for people to follow up. - Jmabel | Talk 18:03, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Homelessness article flags, etc.[edit]

Hi Rich. Anonymous contributor User:70.191.174.29 (User_talk:70.191.174.29) has put several flags up on the article on Homelessness. I think they're inappropriate. Many of us have worked hard on that article, and cited sources all over the place. And professionals in the field have read it, and have been quite impressed with it. The kinds of edits by that anonymous contributor User:70.191.174.29 have been odd. For example, changing, "Free-care clinics, especially for the homeless, exist and are usually over-burdened with patients. ..." to "Free-care clinics, especially for the homeless, exist but may be over-burdened with patients". That's a plain fact that was referenced. It's a highly questionable edit. I am going to remove the two new flags. Actually, I have taken the chance to roll back the article to a what I believe is a stable and sensible point. It was out of control. We can all start from that point and work our way by rational discussions up to where we want to be. I don't want to be involved in any Wikipedia wars, as I am a Wikipedia pacifist in practice. Please let me know your opinion. Thanks and Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 14:29, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Consider also the plea made to me by User:Patcat88 "homeless article going to hell" on my talk page (User talk:Wikiklrsc) ... I am not an admin, just a contributor and editor. I put talking points on the Talk:Homelessness and the other anonymous editor's talk page User_talk:70.191.174.29 for Wikipedia peace and sanity. I think I did, but also hope that I did the right thing. I have precious little time to edit and contribute, let alone internet access enough these days. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 16:32, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Rich, for your contribution and help. I hope it is back under control now. Point well taken, Rich. I have always agreed that the article is largely from an American point of view. I tried to change that _a bit_ in the history section. Unfortunately, I didn't have good data or the time to find it all, for most other countries. I moved much into the article at Homelessness in the United States, Homelessness in Canada and the like. I hope other contributors will help to make it more universal, as I will endeavour to do, in future. Bests and Thanks. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 17:49, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Rich, you said in my talk page (User talk:Wikiklrsc): 'and needs some of the "archeolofy" removing from it.' ... whither "archeolofy" ? Archaeology ? A nonce word for 'archaic loftiness' ? Help. Regards. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 18:06, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

"vi: (1) substitutions made." ... thought it might be. ;) Bests and Thanks. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 18:11, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rich. So far, it all seems to have worked out well in the end. See User_talk:70.191.174.29. We'll all work together as it should be ! Bests and Thanks. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 16:37, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

The plague you made on the article of keyboard protectors[edit]

Please consider carefully your choice of words before you press the button "save page" after editing wildly. Hereby, I advise you to use the show preview function wisely so that you will find out how ridiculous is your mischief before saving the page. Yfjonas 15:53, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

I hate to break it to you, but the original article, while showing a sharp and expressive mind, and a strong vocabulary, was in somewhat strange English to say the least, as was your comment on my talk page. Rgds, Rich Farmbrough 17:14 26 August 2006 (GMT).

ISBN request[edit]

Could you pls run your ISBN tool on User:Hlj/CWbibliography? Thanks, Hal Jespersen 16:22, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I've hyphenated them. the following appear to be incorrect:

ISBN 0-89029-080-7 : 6 (calculated checksum)
ISBN 0-89919-760-6 : 4
ISBN 0-89029-015-4 : 6

Rich Farmbrough 16:59 27 August 2006 (GMT).

Thank you. I rechecked those 3 #s with the books themselves and they are as printed on the jackets. So somebody screwed up somewhere. Hal Jespersen 17:17, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

According to Amazon they are

  1. 0-89029-780-0
  2. 0-89919-790-6
  3. 0-89029-715-4

Rgds, Rich Farmbrough 17:28 27 August 2006 (GMT).

Thanks again. I guess I'll go with Amazon's. Hal Jespersen 17:43, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
WP:CITE gives examples, Smith, J. How to cite your sources, Random House, 2005. ISBN 1607000X and others, dropping any hyphens and any spaces but retaining a space between ISBN and the first number. The Library of Congress will accept an ISBN as a specific search in its Library Catalogs but only if all of the spaces and hyphens are removed, similarly. Like, ISBN 160700X as one example or ISBN 0890297800 as another example. Whatever works, have fun. Terryeo 23:26, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Questionable links ? added by an anonymous editor[edit]

Hi Rich. User:74.130.68.242 (User talk:74.130.68.242) (Special:Contributions/74.130.68.242) added a specific link [13] to many articles, including the article on a Homeless shelter, in order to collect a list of shelters in various US states. I wonder if it belongs in Wikipedia as it appears, although seemingly altruistic, a non-informational solicitation. Thoughts? Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc

Looks like whomp has it under control. Rich Farmbrough 22:28 27 August 2006 (GMT).

Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Projects/hiddenStructure[edit]

Rich Farmbrough said: What was/is this? Rich Farmbrough 23:28 27 August 2006 (GMT).

IIRC, someone requested that I do a search of the entire en.wikipedia datadump for templates that included something specific that needed to be fixed. I'm sure that project is long finished.

Usually I make notes when I create lists like that, I'm blanking it now.

-- That Guy, From That Show! 03:26, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

WP:RFBOT[edit]

Please note your recent requests for expansion have been approved: {{Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approvals/SmackBot 7and8}} Thank you, — xaosflux Talk 03:39, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Moving an article[edit]

Hi Rich. I didn't know about the "move" tab when I did the move from Long Island (Boston) to Long Island, Boston, Massachusetts. Sorry. Thanks for the enlightenment ! Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 12:51, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

SmackBot request[edit]

Could I ask you to add Wikipedia:WikiProject Warhammer 40,000/References to the list of pages SmackBot will do ISBN reformatting for? I hope the reason for this request is fairly obvious. Cheers --Pak21 17:50, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Done Rich Farmbrough 18:03 28 August 2006 (GMT).
Thanks --Pak21 09:51, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

ISBN reformatting[edit]

Hi Rich. Your bot has popped up on my watchlist a few times recently, and I must say I'm impressed with the ISBN reformatting. Nice work! (In saying this I'm assuming you're formatting them correctly, since I know next to nothing about how they should be formatted :)) --kingboyk 20:33, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the compliment. Yes, I have been as careful as I can, and after the first 12,000 edits no-one has complained about the formatting being wrong per se, although one guy thinks it's a waste of time, and one was convinced that they should be a block of characters. Incidentally there are about 2,600 regular expressions making up the hyphenation rule base, although it could be done in less. ISBN's that don't fit the hyphenation rules are labelled as invalid, and I have done a separate run to categorise those which don't match their checksum - many of which editors have already fixed. Rich Farmbrough 22:13 28 August 2006 (GMT).
2600 regular expressions?! My oh my. --kingboyk 08:06, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Ebaums world vandalism[edit]

Have a look at this edit. Copy the new location into your address bar, hit enter, and it redirects you to [14], a 404 address. HawkerTyphoon 22:13, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Damn good question. Hit the admin noticeboard, maybe someone can shed light on it?
Domain names can only contain ASCII characters, but most of the world use non-latin scripts or want accents. So the IETF came up with a way to allow any Unicode character in a domain name component: you take out the non-ASCII characters, put "xn--" in front, and append "-" followed by some ASCII characters which specify which non-ASCII chars were removed, and where they were removed from. In this case, the "-nqh" encodes "a Greek lowercase omicron, after the w". Web browsers etc are supposed to automagically "deUnicodeise" URLs (and, um, reUnicodeise them too).
The take-home message is that any ASCIIised domain name containing "xn--" is an IDNA.
Since Wikipedia stores URLs in their Unicode form (as we should), to find URLs containing IDNAs you'd have to search for non-ASCII characters in the "host" part of the URL - maybe ^[a-z]+:/+[!-.0-~][^!-.0-~] would work, assuming we don't have URLs containing usernames or passwords with non-ASCII characters.
I hope this helps; sorry for over-explaining.
What I actually came here to do was thank you for having SmackBot go around and prettify all the ISBNs I've inserted into articles. So: thanks!
Cheers, CWC(talk) 03:04, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the info, and it's a pleasure. Rich Farmbrough 13:34 29 August 2006 (GMT).

ISBNs on Nakhichevan[edit]

Great work on the ISBN reformatting!

Could you have your bot re-format the ISBN tags on the Nakhichevan article? Thanks! -- Clevelander 23:15, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Will do. Rich Farmbrough 15:57 29 August 2006 (GMT).
Done. Rich Farmbrough 18:23 29 August 2006 (GMT).

The bot and ISBN-13[edit]

It is a waste of edits to merely checksum and add hyphens to ISBN-10 data, when we know that ISBN-13 will be the standard in four months. Automatic conversion is fairly trivial: discard the trailing check digit, prefix a "978", and calculate a new check digit according to these instructions (which differ from those for ISBN-10). The hyphenation is almost identical, only the leading "978" is separated from the rest with a hyphen. You can test your program against this online converter.

For example, to convert "ISBN 1598165747", which would be hyphenated as "1-59816-574-7", we:

  • Drop the trailing digit, here "7"; result: "159816574".
  • Prefix "978"; result: "978159816574".
  • Multiply odd digit positions by 3, where the rightmost digit is considered odd; result: 9,21,8,3,5,27,8,3,6,15,7,12.
  • Sum; result: 124.
  • Subtract the last digit from 10, and take the last digit of the answer; result: 6.
  • Append this check digit to number; result: "9781598165746".
  • Hyphenate; result: "978-1-59816-574-6".

It's really easy to do. However, I would recommend not converting invalid ISBN-10 data, to ease fixing. A beneficial side-effect would be to make the bad ISBN-10 numbers stand out from the converted ISBN-13 numbers. An unhelpful side-effect is that once bad numbers are fixed, they are likely to remain in the old format until the bot returns.

We must begin to change over. Naturally, there will be a few difficulties. The numbers printed in the books will no longer exactly match the numbers in the articles. Booksellers in the USA and Canada, especially those specializing in old books, may be slow to recognize the ISBN-13 form. And there will always be some resistance to change.

I suppose conversion could be limited to books in print, except I know of no free online source for that information. Or, we could provide both ISBNs. --KSmrqT 00:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I was looking at something like this User:Rich Farmbrough/ISBN template as the next stage. Thus (almost) all ISBN's would change at the right second, and the template could be substed out later. The test template works but doesn't support hyphens. So a new template is required which is actually easy to code, I'll do it later today or tomorrow. Rich Farmbrough 10:02 29 August 2006 (GMT).
With regard to changing over to ISBN-13 all at once, there could be problems with that.
  • Major libraries, such as Library of Congress, may not convert their catalogs all at once. Similarly Worldcat.
  • Our readers who search the web to buy the book will get Google hits on the ISBN-10 version, not the new one.
  • Existing physical books may most reliably be referred to with the ISBN used to purchase them, since editions can change.
If I cite a book from my own bookshelf, and an ISBN is already printed in it, should I post a different ISBN on Wikipedia?
But if I bring a new book home that has an ISBN-13, obviously I would use that for citations. EdJohnston 02:28, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Flagging an ISBN-13 wrongly *[edit]

I reverted your bot's edit flagging an ISBN as invalid. As far as I can see, it's correct, and it's identical to the ISBN listed on the Cambridge University Press website. I suspect that the bot labels all 13-digit ISBNs as invalid. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 01:57, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll check back over the list for any othe false positives. Rich Farmbrough 15:59 29 August 2006 (GMT).


Signpost updated for August 28th[edit]

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SmackBot/References query[edit]

It did a lovely job on the tone cluster and Henry Cowell ISBNs. I'm not sure it's directly relevant, but earlier today (before SmackBot's involvement...I think) I started having a problem with the References in "Tone cluster." The article comes up with "ghost' or "echo" (or whatever's the proper term of art) refs--so what should be note 1 reads inline and in the References (called "Notes") section as note 13 (or sometimes 7...or 10...or...). Everything connects properly in an informational way, but lord does it look awful, not to mention confusing. Any idea what the source of the problem is, and how to solve it? Best, Dan — DCGeist 04:35, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

No--I'm still seeing what should be footnote callout "1" as callout "13"--and then the text of the footnote appearing in the References (dba "Notes") both as note 1 and as note 13. All in all, instead of the proper total of 26 notes, I read 38 notes. I've checked a few other footnoted Wikipedia articles to make sure it's not an issue with my browser--no problem anywhere else. But you're reading it AOK--26 notes, not 38? Hardly know what to think. Thanks for checking. —DCGeist 09:34, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Tried shift-reload. No luck. Some gremlin must just be telling me to stop working on the article. Thanks again. Best, Dan —DCGeist 09:54, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Note this was Bugzilla:7162 Rich Farmbrough 10:08 1 September 2006 (GMT).


SmackBot and ISBN[edit]

I've noticed your bot making changes to a lot of book articles. Can you point me to a standard for quoting ISBN, as I've (wrongly?) always just quoted them as one long number in articles I write. If this is wrong, I'd like to be able to improve how I do it. Thanks --Guinnog 10:54, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

They are based on a table found on the ISBN Agency's web site here. I assume you know that the first part is language group, the second publisher (within lang group) the third a serial number and the last a check digit.

Regards, Rich Farmbrough 13:20 29 August 2006 (GMT).

Gosh! Fascinating. Thank you. No, apart from the checksum I didn't know any of that. --Guinnog 13:25, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


Hyphenated ISBNs[edit]

Great work on hyphenating ISBNs. I don't use hyphens, manually (I think the reward isn't worth the effort!), but if it's this easy to get them right with AWB, then hats off to you. :) —Serein 19:39, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


Ghost notes[edit]

While I'm reading "ISBN" and--this hour, at least--"tone cluster" as just fine. This seems like a Wikipedia server glitch, perhaps. I doubt it has anything to do with SmackBot (it doesn't even look from the history like the ISBN article's had SmackBot on it--recently anyway), but why don't you put SmackBot on string piano (another under my care) and let's see what, if anything, happens. —DCGeist 21:13, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes I was working on references, so I thought it was a WP problem not SB related. I would just like to have more data before logging a bug (but perhaps it's already been logged). Off to the back burner with it. Rich Farmbrough 21:50 29 August 2006 (GMT).
Already logged at Bugzilla:7162 Rich Farmbrough 08:51 30 August 2006 (GMT).

Articles with invalid ISBNs category[edit]

Rich, there is a problem with Category:Articles with invalid ISBNs -- it contains entries of articles not in the category. I posted something about this on the Village pump, believing it could be affecting other categories. In addition, User:SEWilco has written on my talk page "I just wanted to point out an unrelated oddity: The category text has some Template:tl usage which is not being transcluded". Alan Pascoe 08:34, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

RfA thanks[edit]

Guinnessglass.jpg Thank you very much for participating in my RFA, which closed successfully today with a result of (62/18/3). I will go very carefully at first, trying to make sure I don't mess up too badly using the tools, and will begin by re-reading all the high-quality feedback I received during the process, not least from those who opposed me. Any further advice/guidance will be gratefully accepted. I hope I will live up to your trust! Guinnog 14:30, 30 August 2006 (UTC)}


SmackBot's Edit Summary[edit]

Hi Rich. I've witnessed your bot's amazing work, and would like to nitpick by offering a suggestion. The edit summary left by SmackBot currents reads, "ISBN formatting &/or general fixes using AWB" -- the use of "and/" is redundant. Other than that, keep it running! Xiner 16:30, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Quite right! However it is clear, and not everone is a mathematician. It should really be "and sometimes" for this particular run. Rich Farmbrough 09:26 31 August 2006 (GMT).

ISBN[edit]

Thank you for the information, we will scan for any other occurances of this problem. Rich Farmbrough 15:34 30 August 2006 (GMT).

Re. "we will scan for any other occurances of this problem": is that built-in to the bot's algorithm? Is that re-iterate previous operations of the bot on this issue, before proceeding? Sorry, "we will scan for any other occurances of this problem" is not much of clear answer. --Francis Schonken 18:38, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Both and also identify any candidates which would have been a problem. Rich Farmbrough 18:40 30 August 2006 (GMT).
There were a total of 10 articles where this could have been a problem, all have been dealt with. Rich Farmbrough 09:32 31 August 2006 (GMT).
I did not say that the algorithm would be the same as mediawikis. ISBN XXX is valid under the mediawiki software, but completely invalid in real life as is ISBN 12312-1231-23131-3-4-34-1-3-1432

. Rich Farmbrough 11:14 31 August 2006 (GMT).

Incidentally calling someone a liar, or incompetant, even prefaced with the word "apparently" is both a breach of WP:NPA and not a good way to make co-operative progress. Rich Farmbrough 11:20 31 August 2006 (GMT).
Sorry, I don't know how to put this more precise, but whatever the bot does to "evaluate" an ISBN, it should first start to READ the numbers of the ISBN *exactly the same way" the automatic function does. If the bot reads "ISBN 0803913303 - " as if the hyphen is part of the ISBN {{invalid isbn|0803913303 - }} ([15]), while the usual algorithm has no trouble discerning that the hyphen is in this case not part of the ISBN (and certainly not part of an "invalid" ISBN) the bot programming should be changed.
I happened to have typed that ISBN [16], unless your bot stops insulting people that they don't know how to type valid ISBN's, while they apparently do know how to type them, it should be stopped entirely. --Francis Schonken 11:38, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I understand what you want, and it is the same as what I want, really. That the bot make no mistakes. That is not the same as what you are asking for. However the bot run is finished to all intents and purposes, so I now need to address any problem edits after the fact. And I welcome anyone who tells me of a problem edit, because I can then fix it, and possibly a class of problems. And I accept that some people will be angry/annoyed, and that some of the edits will turn out to be correct, and some turn out to be wrong, and in one case the publisher had put an invalid number on the book. But really I have a few problems with a lot of your comments. If you can't be cheerful and freindly, can't you simply restrict yourself to stating the apparent problem, and requesting feedback, without resorting to commands, threats or insults? E.G. "Rich - this edit is wrong, I think your bot is counting the dash as part of the ISBN. Can you let me know what you do to fix it?" It's quicker for both parties, and less stress probably. Rich Farmbrough 12:00 31 August 2006 (GMT).


SmackBot problems with certain infoboxes *[edit]

Hopefully I'm not covering old ground here, I had a quick look and couldn't see anything! Some articles contain infoboxes with attributes such as "ISBN2=isbn no.", such as The Colour of Magic, for example; however, the bot's inserting a space between the attribute name's "ISBN" and "2" leaving the infobox with an undefined attribute. I don't know if it's a particularly prevalent problem or if it's just related to the Discworld series, but thought it was worth mentioning. Cheers,

-- Chris (blathercontribs) Flag of the United Kingdom (3-5).svg 22:29, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Chris, thanks for letting me know, Rich Farmbrough 09:20 31 August 2006 (GMT).


Buggy SmackBot edit[edit]

Here it had added formatting to image filename, causing the image to not display.

-- LoneFox 06:51, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, this should not happen, will pass to developers. Rich Farmbrough 10:03 31 August 2006 (GMT).

Please help removing insults[edit]

I thought

Apparently, SmackBot evaluates the viability of an ISBN differently from how the automatic ISBN function does (the ISBN function has no trouble to only include the ISBN number, excluding other numbers that follow on the same line). ([17])

more than friendly enough. That was my first comment. I had no clue this was linked with hyphens. I'm still not sure it is *exclusively* linked with hyphens.

Fair enough. At the time neither was I, I thought it was hyphens followed digits. What I did was
  • Fix the article in question.
  • Scanned for similar articles (finding ten, nine more and the original).
  • Changed the robot rules to deal with the situation correctly.
  • Fixed the articles and or ran the process against those articles. (Belt and braces approach.)
Rich Farmbrough 13:35 31 August 2006 (GMT).

It would be impolite if I would try to nail down the technical cause of a problem, for a bot for which I have no insight in its internal workings. I can only indicate the problem.

That's fine. Rich Farmbrough 13:35 31 August 2006 (GMT).

Apparently you had nailed the technical problem (which I derived from your consequent manual edit of Socrate)), but had not provided a solution. Sorry, if I raised my voice as a consequence of your lack of appropriate reaction (I was correct in assuming you were only trying to sooth temporarily, in order not to have to improve the bot).

See above.Rich Farmbrough 13:35 31 August 2006 (GMT).

But insults don't help, you're right there. For that reason I moved {{Invalid isbn}} to {{Please check ISBN}}. I'm sure you can get a bot or semibot change every occurence of {{Invalid isbn| to {{Please check ISBN| in a swiff (there are less than 50 pages transcluding that template currently – oops, wrong count, there are over 1000). Then you prevent that an error of the bot turns into an insult of the person who added a "false positive" ISBN. Thanks. --Francis Schonken 12:52, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, OK, I can live with that if it makes you happy. Rich Farmbrough 13:35 31 August 2006 (GMT).
I suppose I'd better put a bot approval request in. Rich Farmbrough, 13:18 4 September 2006 (GMT).

Wikipedia:List of Wikipedians by number of edits[edit]

Is it posible to use the bot that used to work for this for other wikis? --Cat out 16:39, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't know, I expect so. I only ran a script against a datbase dump, that tool was sadly lost, however the historic relic from it Wikipedia:List of ips by number of edits shows that some IP's would have been among the top editors. I was thinking of (writing and) testing a new script against ang.wikipedia.org, since it's fairly trivial. Rich Farmbrough 16:49 29 August 2006 (GMT).
Interesting. Is there a privacy issue with that page? bobblewik 18:12, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I don't see that there would be. Rich Farmbrough 18:44 29 August 2006 (GMT).
OK, thanks. Just a thought. bobblewik 18:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


ISBN hyphenation: Wikipedia policy?[edit]

I have noticed your SmackBot hyphenating the ISBNs in several articles I work on. While I originally had them hyphenated myself, I was instructed to change that in a peer review a while back. Has there been a change in policy that they are now supposed to be hyphenated, or have you taken this upon yourself to do? Elric of Grans 23:59, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Elric, please let me know which Peer review. Hyphenation (or spaces) is the standard according to the International ISBN Agency, and we can't use spaces. Rich Farmbrough 08:28 30 August 2006 (GMT).
It was in this one. I seem to recall there being more discussion on it, but part of the discussion in that PR also disappeared somewhere along the way – my guess is that it was among that. Could your bot also stop being 'helpful' with categories? I am getting sick of reverting that three or four times a day. To get categories sorted alphabetically you often need to place them above templates, but your bot keeps moving them back to the bottom (which ends up giving me a mish-mashed order). Elric of Grans 23:04, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Well it's done for now. I understand what your saying about categories, it raises two interesting points a. how should categories be ordered, and b. what to do about transcluded categories. The first has been thrashed out, and the conclusion reaced that alpahbetical order is not necessarily best (AWB used to order categories). The second is more probelmatical, I believe, for example that in general maintainance categories (and hence templates) should go after normal categories - and I thnk this is widely suported in principle. On the other hand it is common practice to put cleanup and wikify right at the top of articles. One off the things that AWB does in it's general options is to put interwiki at the end, and non-trancluded categories immediately before, so I will copy part of your comment and this reply onto the AWB talk page for discussion. Rich Farmbrough 09:43 31 August 2006 (GMT).
Here Rich Farmbrough 09:48 31 August 2006 (GMT).

Hi Rich, I spotted you and the bot hyphenating ISBNs in my watchlists and (correctly as it turned out) picking up some errors in a few of my ISBNs, which I've now corrected and de-cat-ed as ISBN errors; and I've read the ISBN FAQs. No disagreements; the question is what is wiki magic - I can't find it thru search? Pyrotec 19:51, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

That thing which makes ISBNs show as links without special mark-up. In general anything on the wiki that does something "automagically". Rich Farmbrough 20:35 31 August 2006 (GMT).


A minor bot issue[edit]

I noticed that your SmackBot recently edited David Duke, and wikified the name "David Duke" in a reference, thus creating a redundant wiki link. Is this supposed to happen? --Ryodox 23:26, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. It actually un-wikified the link. Rgds, Rich Farmbrough 09:59 31 August 2006 (GMT).
Oh, right. Stupid me; I somehow managed to confuse the new edit with the previous version.
--Ryodox 16:56, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


Chew Valley[edit]

Not a problem - and well done on the edits to it today --Mnemeson 15:52, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


Images not showing up after Smackbot runs[edit]

Rich, you wrote this on my talk page:

Yep, I found, I think, about 24 articles with two or more nested []s, only a few had ISBNs, so I was able to ensure the problem did not re-occur for this project. And of course programmers count "0, 1, many" so I hope that AWB will be made perfect soon! Any comments to my talk page please. Rich Farmbrough 11:08 31 August 2006 (GMT).

You said also that Smackbot caused the image not to show up due to 2 external links being in an image caption. One of the links was at the end of a caption. ISBNs were not a part of this particular problem. But are you saying that 24 images did not show up after that run of Smackbot? And has the problem been fixed? I need to know whether I can put 2 external links in a caption, especially if one link is at the end of the caption where the brackets stack up and confuse the bot. What about 3 or 4 external links in a caption? Does the problem only occur if one of the links is at the end of the image caption? --Timeshifter 19:24, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

No I forget the details, but I think one other article had been broken, possibly. The problem with the tool has been fixed Wikipedia_talk:AutoWikiBrowser#Nested_square_brackets_bug by the main developer and author of the tool, so apart from people using old versions, which won't last long (the tool itself will insist on being updated), you should be fine to put what you like. In fact you shouldn't worry too much anyway because it's easy to roll back an edit if needed. Rich Farmbrough 20:29 31 August 2006 (GMT).
Thanks. It looks like the problem has been fixed. The other note about it here on the same page says that the problem was occuring with just one external link in the caption too, if the link was at the end of the caption. But it has been fixed in any case.--Timeshifter 11:37, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


Date unlinking[edit]

I have seen you unlink dates. However, Wikipedia:Manual of Style (links)#Dates and numbers still lays out the Wikipedia style of linking dates and I know not of a rule prohibiting it. Are you enforcing a rule I am not aware of? --Liberlogos 05:42, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the reference you give ("Where a date contains day, month, and year — 25 March, 2004 — or day and month — February 10 — a link will permit the date preferences of the reader to operate. Day, month, and year must all be linked for the preference to work correctly.") is one I agree with, and I have linked many thousands of dates in these formats, see for example this diff from last night. However Wikipedia:Only make links that are relevant to the context means that entities such as bare years or other date fragments (e.g. "Monday", "1994", "May", "June 2015" should rarely be linked (although there are dissenters). (In the infancy of WP all these entities were linked as there was a plan to extract meta - data from them. Similarly there is a request to the mediawiki developers to provide a different way of allowing date prefernces to work than linking.) Rgs, Rich Farmbrough 09:12 1 September 2006 (GMT).

Published ISBN is invalid[edit]

I just removed the invalid ISBN category from the I'saka language article after double checking the book and a couple of library catalogues. Then I read up on ISBNs, calculated the checksum myself, and realized that the ISBN is indeed invalid. What should I do? The purpose of the category is the mark that something needs fixing, but it doesn't seem that there's anything to be fixed. Answer here and I'll take any action necessary. -- Ngio 12:27, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

ISBN Check can give "minimal change" ISBNs for invalid ones. In this case, should it possibly be 0858834545? Cheers --Pak21 12:38, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, but that's not it. The book I'm talking about is in the Australian National Library catalogue with the invalid ISBN [18]; this is also the ISBN printed in the book itself. -- Ngio 13:08, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Interestingly this is No. 554 in a series. This would indicate that the publisher incorrectly calculated the checksum. So while, ideally we should contact the ISBN authority, to find the correct solution, I would be inclined to put a temporary note in the article, since from the first of January the check digit will no longer be relevant, and it looks like the rest of the number is correct anyway. The article will then be a special case we have to work around for a while. Rich Farmbrough 13:17 29 August 2006 (GMT).
OK, so let's just leave things as they are. I'll copy this discussion to Talk:I'saka language. -- Ngio 14:28, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Additional comments there - interesting. Rich Farmbrough 20:02 29 August 2006 (GMT).
This particular book is in catalog.loc.gov, where the ISBN field is marked 'Cancelled ISBN'. It's possible that they do this whenever they receive a book for cataloging that has the wrong check digit. EdJohnston 01:51, 2 September 2006 (UTC)



Wikifying dates[edit]

Whichever bot you use to do this is deleting the comma between the day and the year in dates that are in the format Month day, year. This is an example.Chidom talk  18:41, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. It's OK because the wikimagic that renders dates according to preferences puts them in. SO you should see no difference between May 1,123 and May 1123. Rgds, Rich Farmbrough, 18:49 1 September 2006 (GMT).
P.S. I fixed a big red Cite error on that article. Rich Farmbrough, 18:49 1 September 2006 (GMT).
Thanks. Wikimagic—something else I learned. As for the red link, I got one and missed the other ::::sigh::::; thanks for catching it.Chidom talk  18:57, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


Buckingham Palace article invalid ISBN on Olwen Headley's book[edit]

Hello Rich. Since I had an ISBN problem the other day I looked into a recent exchange you had with FClef about Buckingham Palace. In this case I suspect the ISBN really is wrong, so I sympathize with SmackBot. My comment to FClef was made here [19]. If FClef found this number in the actual book, we have to assume a mistake at the publisher's end. It's possible you could enumerate what you think should happen each time an ISBN is flagged. E.g. if it has a wrong check digit when printed in the book, should we just remove the ISBN from the article? EdJohnston 19:07, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I haven't spoken to FClef yet, I have just researched the book, and can confirm a leading 0 should be added. This may be because of the change from the British SBN to ISBN. Rich Farmbrough, 20:37 1 September 2006 (GMT).
Fixing the ISBN allows us to notice that Headley should be Hedley. Under that spelling the correct book shows up in the British Library! Also several books by that author at LOC though not that particular one. So we have to credit SmackBot on this one. EdJohnston 21:23, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


Trabancos River[edit]

Thanks for the fixes. I saw what SmackBot had done, but left it in because I have no familiarity with ISBN...err...validity issues. Are the ISBN numbers proper? I relied entirely on the Spanish language featured article authors when adding the references.--Fuhghettaboutit 22:23, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, they're all valid in that article. Rgds, Rich Farmbrough, 22:29 1 September 2006 (GMT).


A London Life[edit]

Removed bad trailing digit from ISBN, needs proper hyphenation. Published in 1962, I couldn't find a properly-hyphenated version ot this ISBN on the web. EdJohnston 03:05, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

KSmrq has kindly fixed this one. Rich Farmbrough, 09:35 2 September 2006 (GMT).

Olwen Headley Buckingham Palace book[edit]

Hi Rich - thanks for correcting this. –– FClef (talk) 12:08, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Grabby Award edits[edit]

You/the bot changed all the non-breaking hyphens: ‑ (&#8209;) to regular hyphens in this article; they were put there for a reason. Why the change?Chidom talk  23:34, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I'll have to look this evening. Thanks for letting me know. Rich Farmbrough 07:25 1 September 2006 (GMT).
I assume you mean Adult Erotic Gay Video Awards: this edit does not change any non-breaking hyphens. Rich Farmbrough 10:15 1 September 2006 (GMT).

Sorry I wasn't clearer; it's not the article on the awards; it's the listing of the recipients of the awards (Grabby recipients): This edit changed the non-breaking hyphens to regular ones.Chidom talk  17:47, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

They are still the same character I think. See below.

New[edit]

co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creator

Old[edit]

co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creatorco‑creatorco‑creator co‑creator co‑creator co‑creator

Rich Farmbrough, 18:37 1 September 2006 (GMT).

Incidentally it is not part of the HTML specification I believe, and on my browser (firefox) looks very short, almost dot like until I zoom in. Rgds, Rich Farmbrough, 18:40 1 September 2006 (GMT).

  • Well, shut my mouth and I'll be a bug-eyed mule! I suppose I could have tested the necessity of them; I got the HTML code from here, which seems to be a pretty thorough list. In most cases, a line break can occur at a regular hyphen, which is why I put them in. As for firefox, dunno why it doesn't handle the HTML properly. By the way, your hard work at all this is not unappreciated—thanks!Chidom talk  18:45, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Nice to be appreciated! Rich Farmbrough, 18:52 1 September 2006 (GMT).
  1. Thanks for you note about hyphens, in the example, the "old" has the HTML numeric encoding of the unicode as ASCII characters, which get interpreted by the browser, the "new" has I believe, the unicode character iteslf. Experimenting with the width of my browser window I wasn't able to make either break on the hyphens.
  2. I think there was an "invalid ISBN" on Dalek, as a dalekite you may care to take a look.

Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 14:50 4 September 2006 (GMT).


quick clarification: They are not the same character (they often have the same glyph, but have different line breaking behaviour). . Nor are characters defined by the HTML specification. Instead, characters are defined by the Unicode specification, which is then normatively referenced by the HTML specification. --Nantonos 08:57, 3 September 2006 (UTC)


Users and IPs[edit]

Is there any way for you to check if a user and an IP are the same?{Halbared 07:02, 2 September 2006 (UTC)}

checkuser Rich Farmbrough, 09:38 2 September 2006 (GMT).
Thanks for that Rich. I have tried to archive my talk page, but I don't think I have done it correctly, can you advise please?(Halbared 14:01, 2 September 2006 (UTC))
Hey Rich, how can I email you?(Halbared 13:09, 3 September 2006 (UTC))

The phrase 'Cancelled ISBN' already appears in Wikipedia[edit]

See the Ralph_Ginzburg article.

From the article:

100 Years of Lynchings edited by Ralph Ginzburg (New York: Lancer Books, 1962; Baltimore, MD: Black Classic Press, 1988, cancelled ISBN 933121180

The situation is murky, however. There could be some politics involved in the 'cancelling' of this ISBN, due to the various obscenity trials of Ginzburg. For instance, the number given in their records (above) is only 9 digits, where we expect 10 for an ISBN! If you put a zero in front of it, you get a valid ISBN, which however does not return anything when you search for it in LOC. So this is not a good example. It's just a case (confusing at best) where they use the phrase 'Cancelled ISBN'.

The pages containing publisher errors where 'Cancelled ISBN' could be needed are (so far):

  • 2-10-4 Both the old and new ISBNs for the Jack Farrell book are invalid. Marked as 'No ISBN available'. See my note on Talk:2-10-4.
  • A Certain Woman, Now marked as 'No ISBN available'. History comment says 'Please supply corrected ISBN if found.'
  • I'saka language, Now marked as 'No ISBN available'. Left link to online article by same authors.
  • Ahmad al-Alawi Now marked as 'No ISBN available'. Comment left in Talk page.
  • Ajahn Sobin S. Namto Now marked as 'No ISBN available'. Comment left in Talk page.
From Wikipedia's ISBN page I found this document, [20], which asserts: "Most national bibliographies and especially the Books in Print correct ISBN mistakes. The systems then provide cross references ("incorrect ISBN -> correct ISBN")."
It would be good to see an example of that, anywhere! EdJohnston 17:58, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Since writing the above I was able to get access to www.booksinprint.com. I found that it will not even ACCEPT an invalid ISBN in the search field. So much for the elegant (but nonexistent) solution hypothesized by the IETF document above. (I believe that Books In Print [Bowker] IS the American custodian of the ISBN system). How about we just DELETE from the articles all the ISBNs that are published invalid, of course after explaining properly on each Talk page why that's a reasonable thing to do? Otherwise these cancelled items (of which there might be 200 or so in all of Wikipedia) will need to be processed by hand after every robot visit. EdJohnston 00:37, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


Clarification on R.R. Bowker and ISBNs[edit]

From http://www.isbn.org/standards/home/index.asp:

"As the U.S. ISBN Agency, R R Bowker is the exclusive US source of publisher prefixes and accompanying ranges of ISBN numbers for eligible publishers. It provides information and advice on the uses of the ISBN System to publishers and the book trade and promotes the use of the Bookland EAN bar code format. In addition to their ISBN prefixes, publishers also register their titles for inclusion in the Bowker Books In Print databases."

So Bowker could police the invalid ISBNs if they chose to. At present there is no evidence that they try to correct mistakes or keep records on the ISBNs that are published invalid. You just can't search Books in Print for the invalid ones (though you can search Amazon and sometimes find the book you want). EdJohnston 03:02, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


Chew Valley edits[edit]

Thanks for your edits on Chew Valley while I was away. — Rod talk 07:39, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

you wrote: "Could you look at the "invalid ISBN's"., also for [[Chew Magma], Chew Lake and Chew, at some point?" I presume you mean Chew Magna & Chew Valley Lake but Chew is not anything to do with me or the valley - was there another one?— Rod talk 20:31, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
I've now fixed these ISBNs (with one exception I couldn't find which I've removed). I thought ISBNs were unique and fixed but obviously not.— Rod talk 08:22, 4 September 2006 (UTC)


Internet radio article[edit]

Hi Rich. I re-arranged the external links on the Internet radio article. One section, I made, "sample internet radio stations". It seems to be an advert area for odd-bit stations. I am not sure it should be there at all. Should it be deleted ? Thoughts ? Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 13:52, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

ISBN hyphenation[edit]

I'm not convinced that hyphenation adds value; in fact, it may even be a liability in web searches. Also, correct hyphenation depends on the number. For example,

99921-58-10-7
9971-5-0210-0
960-87363-3-1
80-86119-13-0
4-8457-0667-9
0-14-015098-6
0-446-60098-9
0-8044-2957-X
0-85386-070-X
0-901690-54-6
0-9500000-0-0

are all correct. Worse still, the proper hyphenation is not determined by a centralized international authority, and requires consulting ever-changing tables like this one. There is a regular pattern for 10-digit numbers beginning with "0", but even books published in English need not be in that group. Is your bot prepared to cope? --KSmrqT 19:52, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it is up to date with the full hyphenation table. Rich Farmbrough, 19:58 3 September 2006 (GMT).
Where did you find a full international hypenation table? --KSmrqT 20:20, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
The table was found on the ISBN Agency's web site here. Rich Farmbrough, 20:28 3 September 2006 (GMT).
After the world converts to 13-digit ISBNs, won't it be hard to visually scan them (or copy them with pencil and paper) if they are unhyphenated? A better system would be fixed grouping of digits, as in the social security number. But that's out of our control. Perhaps WP could offer a script to do the hyphenation. Or add isbn.org/convertpub.asp to the Special:Booksources page so editors could use it routinely. EdJohnston 20:38, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
Last point is excellent. Rich Farmbrough, 20:42 3 September 2006 (GMT).
My reg-exes are published under the WP:AWB pages. Rich Farmbrough, 14:17 4 September 2006 (GMT).
Could you be more specific? I didn't see regular expressions anywhere, but I also don't know where to look. --KSmrqT 05:02, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Settings - they are auto generated from the table, and hence are a little long winded. Rich Farmbrough, 20:47 7 September 2006 (GMT).


Pygmies & Dwarves[edit]

FYI, re this edit, <str> doesn't strike text, <s> does. Guettarda 12:51, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


You're gonna love this one![edit]

Hi

My neck of the woods is the Westcountry in the UK. I was "wandering" around articles there when I spotted something that I was not sure about. Moretonhampstead - at the end of the page it states "This page contains information orginally provided by Moretonhampstead Development Trust" and I wondered about copyvio. Looking back I saw that it originally said "Written by the Moretonhampstead Development Trust" and that your edit [21] was the one that changed it. I guess I'm not really worried (and not experienced enough to knwo better!) but is this ok? Sorry to bug you but having found it I thought I ought to ask. Regards --Nigel (Talk) 16:35, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Makes perfect sense to me and all part of the learning curve. Thanks for the speedy answer - regards --Nigel (Talk) 18:18, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


Proposal to mark published-invalid ISBNs as 'No ISBN available'[edit]

Yet another invalid-as-published ISBN turned up in a book by Johan Cartigny in the Ahmad al-Alawi article. In this case I took the number out and marked the Cartigny book as 'No ISBN available', but left commentary as to what was happening. (See Talk:Ahmad al-Alawi as well). I left the invalid template in hidden text as a souvenir of the problem. Upon saving, the page took itself out of the invalid ISBN category, as expected. I hope this saves some work long term, because if you leave no mark on the page, a future editor could put back the bad ISBN, and if you leave the page in the invalid Category, the next ISBN-fixer will try again to fix it.

If this approach is not one you would adopt, please let me know, since I am working my way down through the Category to fix the invalid ones. As I go, I am only intending to suppress from the visible page the ones that were invalid-as-published).

Bowker's decision to refuse to search for the invalid ones has some logic to it, because the alternative is so much fuss and bother. Essentially Bowker is forcing the publisher of the invalid number to re-issue the book properly if they want to sell any copies through Books in Print. EdJohnston 19:02, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


Signpost updated for September 5th.[edit]

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Note to self[edit]

1930206151. Rich Farmbrough 11:42 31 August 2006 (GMT).

13 digit ISBN[edit]

I looked at the following invalid isbn:

  • J.K. Beatty, C.C. Petersen, A. Chaikin, ed. (1999). The New Solar System (4th ed.). Cambridge press. ISBN 9780521645874. 

It seemed completly invalid at first, until I realised. Its using the 13 digit ISBN number. Unfortunatly, most libraries doesn't appear to track 13 digit isbn numbers yet. Don't know if you're accounting for this yet or not. Kevin_b_er 20:45, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Kevin, I'm working on it. It's one of the reasons I'm doing the project in the first place (see Template:Auto isbn). Thanks for the info. Rich Farmbrough, 20:52 1 September 2006 (GMT).
ISBN 9780521645874 is not an ISBN is an EAN article code for the ISBN which is possibly 052164587X. (note the difference final character which is check digit on a different scheme than the full EAN code). The EAN code is what is used for the bar coding used. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 12:57, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
Just when you thought you knew something the world shifts from under your feet - thanks for the update. Nice use of shifting terminology EAN loses it's "European" meaning and ISBN-13 is shrunk to ISBN; leaving us all to be confused. :: Kevinalewis : (Talk Page)/(Desk) 13:36, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

On August 19 you fixed a broken (13 digit, written with spaces) ISBN in Margaret Mahy to one written with hyphens and 10 digits. However, you did not alter the last digit accordingly, so the link was broken. The trailing -0 has now been changed to -7. Please always verify that the resulting ISBN link works and actually points to the right book. ISBNs with 13 digits aren't broken per se, but having white space among the digits is wrong. When changing between 10 digits and 13 digits, the prefix is almost always 978 (except when it's 979), but the last digit, the checksum, also changes. --LA2 20:25, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, that was stupid of me. Rich Farmbrough, 20:58 7 September 2006 (GMT).

A Certain Woman: publisher error on ISBN?[edit]

From going down your list of books with invalid ISBNs, I came across one that looks like a publisher's error: [22] 1. Check digit doesn't match so it's invalid, 2. Book not in Library of Congress, 3. Not in Amazon, 4. Copy for sale on Ebay for $39.00, found by Google for the given ISBN, 5. Worldcat shows it at Harvard College Library where they have the entry shown below (with the bad ISBN). 6. Google shows another copy at a library in Holland, also with the bad ISBN.

Author : Arishima, Takeo, 1878-1923.
Title : A certain woman / Arishima Takeo ; translated, and with an introd. by Kenneth Strong.
Published : Tokyo : University of Tokyo Press ; [Forest Grove, Or. : distributed by ISBS], c1978.
Location : Harvard-Yenching W 5933 04 Holdings Availability
Location : Widener WID-LC PL801.R5 A813 x Holdings Availability
Description : 382 p. ; 24 cm.
Series : UNESCO collection of representative works : Japanese series
Notes : Translation of Aru onna.
Notes : Includes bibliographical references.
ISBN : 0680082377 :

I don't believe I can update the article to fix this, without just plain removing the ISBN. Or, I could add a note that ISBN is invalid due to a possible error by the publisher, but it can still be used for some web searches. Do you have a recommendation? The benefit to our readers from checking ISBNs is mostly when there is a GOOD ISBN somewhere in the world and we have a BAD one. If there is NO good ISBN, we should put in a suitable flag. Maybe a template?

I checked with the British Library, so yes, I think just a note at this point. There was another book like this, but i can't find the discussion. Rich Farmbrough, 13:08 2 September 2006 (GMT).
#Published ISBN is invalid here. Rich Farmbrough, 13:32 2 September 2006 (GMT).

I prefer to join the English page[edit]

Some users gave me advices how to edit my page and how I can introduce myself but there is still the same problem. I click to main page and then I'm trying to open the "edit page" but there still appears this f....ng index. I open this index and then there is an ampty page, I recognise that there, beside thet Start menu, appears a link which says "download", I click download and then another index(2) opens and so on.

I've solved my problem[edit]

I've already solved my problem by my own, but thanks for giving me advices

SmackBot is rejecting *valid* ISBN-13s[edit]

From American conservatism:

        +        *Bruce Frohnen et al eds. ''American Conservatism: An Encyclopedia'' (2006) ISBN 9781932236446 {{invalid isbn|9781932236446}}, the most detailed reference book

But don't feel bad, Amazon rejects it as well! Amazon finds the book after you use isbn.org/converterpub.asp to make an ISBN-10 from the ISBN-13. EdJohnston 03:31, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

WP:RFBOT[edit]

Task IX has been approved for immediate use, see Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/SmackBot for details. — xaosflux Talk 02:08, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Jan 1, 2007 and 13-digit ISBN[edit]

Regarding the Jan 1, 2007 deadline, it's incorrect to assume that as of Jan 1 all ISBNs will be issued as 13-digit. From the [ISBN.org website http://www.isbn.org/standards/home/isbn/transition.asp], this quote:

The new 979 prefix will not be utilized until all 978 pre-fixes have been assigned. However, 13 digit ISBNs that begin with 979 can never be converted to 10 digit ISBNs. They have no 10 digit counterpart.

So as of Jan. 1 we should be prepared to start getting 13-digit ISBNs, but we'll still get mostly 10-digit ISBNs - especially since the ISBNs are entered for the most part by "real users" and not folks in the book industry.

Also, it's questionable whether we should be converting 10-digit ISBNs to 13-digit ISBNs for linking. That will probably work for vendor maintained databases, such as WorldCat, or for major catalogs, such as LoC or British Library. But I seriously doubt that most libraries are going to scan their DBs to reindex their 10-digit ISBNs as 13-digit. It will probably require a software upgrade on a library's part for their OPAC to understand the incoming 13-digit '978' as a valid 10-digit.

In addition, if the book has a 10-digit on the back and that's what the user put in their reference, that seems like the correct ISBN to display in the reference. 10-digits should still work for linking for the forseeable future, otherwise OPAC vendors would break almost every ISBN link into their OPAC.

I'm going to put this comment on the Auto isbn template page as well.

Thanks. RainbowCrane | Talk 15:21, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rainbow, the "sunrise" for 13 digit ISBNs was 1 January 2005. As to the support of 979s, I hope and believe this present exercise (with ISBNs, not Wikipedia) will be long out of the way before we need worry about them. I'm sure that most systems will continue ot support 10 digit ISBNS for a long time, but they are not required to. In terms of supporting 13 digit ISBNs all significant systems will need to support them natively, legacy data can be dealt with in two ways, either by checking the converted number as well as the input number (which is a trivial piece of programming) or by running a conversion routine on the data, which is almost as trivial, the hard part, potentially, being the change to allow longer numbers, which will have been needed anyway. Regardless we need to keep thinking about the best process, as I say "auto isbn" can be used in a number of different ways. Rich Farmbrough, 16:23 8 September 2006 (GMT).
While all OPAC vendors will probably be ready, my point was that many, many libraries won't upgrade for a while. I work in the library tech industry, and my company (who shall remain nameless) typically has to support legacy software releases for 6 months or a year, at minimum, because libraries have to coordinate upgrades with their school year, fiscal year, etc. So it's probably not going to work to switch to 13-digit for linking a book that has a 10-digit ISBN printed on the back - the links will break. We should trust our editors to enter the ISBN that's actually shown on the book, and use that ISBN for linking. If there's a 13-digit on the book and someone has cataloged it then it should be valid for linking, and we're fine, but we shouldn't convert all 10s to 13s.
Thanks RainbowCrane | Talk 16:46, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Easter egg link in your FAQ[edit]

Under the Dates section, point 4, you link to Easter egg, but contextually it should probably go to Easter egg (media). Just a thought. --Bdoserror 16:15, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Cheers. Rich Farmbrough, 16:23 8 September 2006 (GMT).

Deletion of quotes from the Poverty article[edit]

Hi Rich. Any comments on this deletion and discussion on the Poverty article ? User_talk:Ultramarine#Quotations_you_deleted_from_the_Poverty_article. Thanks and Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 18:34, 8 September 2006 (UTC) (talk)

Hi Rich. Thanks for your kind response. If I understand what you said, I would agree that quotations, for example, could be included in Wikipedia, as well as Wikiquote, etc. There is no easy linkage between WP and WQ. So, can one put pertinent quotes in articles in WP without having been told to put them in WQ or for fear they will get expurgated from WP ? --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 13:26, 9 September 2006 (UTC) (User talk:Wikiklrsc)

Ohio State ISBN[edit]

Thanks for the info. I just made the change, and it works fine.--Sam Harmon 21:37, 8 September 2006 (UTC)


ISBN puzzle[edit]

Your smackbot placed invalid ISBN tags on several ISBNs in the Thomas Edison article. Apparently, from what I can make out in the ISBN article, we have to change the ISBN printed in older books to longer ones and remove the dashes. You page has FAQ but I don't see simple basic instructions for updating these arcane digit strings to some modern standard. Perhaps you could be so kind as to add a paragraph to the ISBN article telling explicitly and in simple terms what we should do to update ISBN numbers. I have never understood the point of them, nor have I ever heard of anyone making use of them. Most people go to a library or Amazon,com and find a book by author or title. It seem like it would make as much sense to add the Library of Congress catalog card number. But I really hate to see something I painstakingly typed into an article labelled as INVALID as if I had been careless typing (Typos happen all to often in fact). So when I checked some of the ISBNs which were invalid against what was printed in the book, I thought maybe the Bot had slipped a cog. Thanks Edison 22:14, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

This actually seems a bit more complicated. You've quoted amazon as having 0703304682, which it does for a book called "Edison a Biography", however the book in question is apparently just titled "Edison" which Amazon has as 0070330468 [23], these of course may indeed be the same book but it is certainly confusing. --pgk 22:37, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the info on SBNs, as I said elsewhere I'm certainly not an expert, just responding to a {{helpme}} request, and my little knowledge of stuffing a zero on the front appeared to work... --pgk 22:45, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
Pgk/Edison, the 0-07-033046-8 number that pgk found is probably the correct one. Reasons:
  1. The layout is consistent with the book
  2. (Most importantly) 0-07- is McGraw Hill's publisher ID
  3. The checksum is correct
I suspect that somewhere someone added a number on the end (as I did), and the data got "borged" - after all the purpose of ISBN searches is to enable people to find a book, so it makes sense to allow as many possible variants.
Good detective work pgk! Rich Farmbrough, 08:39 9 September 2006 (GMT).

Woojgie's ISBNs[edit]

I took the ISBN Nrs from the actual books on my shelf, I don't know how your automated computer routine came up with a different ISBN.--Woogie10w 22:49, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi Woogie, I'm afraid I will need a little more information. Which article would be a start. Rich Farmbrough, 08:39 9 September 2006 (GMT).
Woogie10w is refering to the World War II casualties article. Shanes 08:31, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for adding the zero, anyway Amazon also drops it for Dower's book ISBN Nr.--Woogie10w 16:47, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Ok, both needed a leading zero. for example. Maybe SBN -> ISBN or just the 0 got left off for some reason. Rich Farmbrough, 09:25 9 September 2006 (GMT).

invalid ISBN[edit]

Your bot inserted an invalid ISBN notice to [Quartal and quintal harmony]. See: [24] and [25]

But the ISBN is quite valid: Amazon link, and DTV.

Is your bot equipped to verify ISBNs of books written in other languages? - Rainwarrior 00:46, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Ah! I missed one of the numbers. Okay, that makes me feel better about the bot. Thanks! (I should probably go fix the original German page it was taken from too...) - Rainwarrior 06:46, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Yes it should work regardless of language area. Rich Farmbrough, 11:07 10 September 2006 (GMT).

Another invalid ISBN[edit]

Smackbot flagged ISBN 186448408X (Leichhardt: On the margins of the city, by Peter Reynolds) as being invalid on a number of articles, for example Ballast Point, New South Wales. It's an Australian book published by Allen & Unwin in 1997 and the ISBN was taken out of the front cover. The state library finds it OK here. Am I missing something? amitch 08:46, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Erm where to start...
  1. SB spotted the 9 digit incorrect number and labelled it with invalid
  2. You changed the number by adding an X on using AWB (presumably having got the X from the above library?), but changed it in the invalid tag as well.
  3. SB changed the name of the tag to something considered politer.

So no problem, you could simply remove the tag. I have done so for Ballast Point, and hyphenated the ISBN 1-86448-408-X. Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 09:41 9 September 2006 (GMT).

Stop![edit]

Stop deleting my work, it takes time you know! from homersimpson742

More fun with ISBNs[edit]

  • How about a shortcut (like WP:INV) to save having to type: Category:Articles with invalid ISBNs. Should I create one?
  • By the way, every warning I have seen lately about an ISBN-13 is incorrect.
  • Can you point to the SmackBot code that does the check digit? I looked at the regexes but suspected I wasn't seeing the true source code.
  • SmackBot is still being confused by trailing hyphens. This sequence at Archimedes got it upset:
    ISBN 0-691-08421-1 - republished translation...
    I deleted the trailing hyphen and removed the warning. EdJohnston 04:10, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

PopMatters[edit]

Hi. I don't think you should be italicising instances of PopMatters – website titles aren't included in the italics guidelines at MoS:T. Thanks. --CapitalLetterBeginning 14:39, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Thanks for your note. Italics are used on the basis that it is a periodical/magazine. Our article describes it as such, do you think that's OK? Rich Farmbrough, 14:51 10 September 2006 (GMT).
Hmm, I don't really agree with the usage as I see webzines as being distinct from print periodicals/magazines. To give a few examples, Pitchfork Media, PlayLouder and Stylus Magazine are all similar in style and their titles are not italicised. --CapitalLetterBeginning 15:00, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
I've changed "magazine" in the opening line of the PopMatters article to "webzine" now. --CapitalLetterBeginning 15:05, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
SO I see, :). Rich Farmbrough, 15:08 10 September 2006 (GMT).

Spurious edits by User:24.119.239.54[edit]

Rich, User:24.119.239.54 has made some spurious edits Special:Contributions/24.119.239.54 to a number of articles, e.g. the one on Homelessness, most of which seem to border on vandalism. I've tried to re-edit the articles, but not all. The usual ideas ? Thanks and Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 15:13, 10 September 2006 (UTC) (talk)

Task X[edit]

Go ahead and run the template fix tasks for the bot, as it is approved.Voice-of-All 19:04, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Obligated = called?[edit]

For what reason did you change use of the word obligated to called in Iron Ring? I've never heard this terminology before, is it at one of the sources? BigNate37(T) 22:16, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Signpost updated for September 11th.[edit]

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Smackbot[edit]

Why add a template to an article just to say the below template is misplaced? (Diana Oughton, etc.) Why not set the bot to wipe or hide the template tag, leave a comment, and put the offending tag on the talk? -Ste|vertigo 01:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

This is SB's edit. The following edit put the template on. The template is designed to warn if it is on an article page, it is not a seperate action. I have moved the template to a talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 10:08 13 September 2006 (GMT).
whoops! -Ste|vertigo 14:22, 13 September 2006 (UTC)


Block Request[edit]

Please block sep11:User:Georgia guy, he has been vandalizing the Sept. 11 wiki. Thank you. Timrem 03:56, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Done, thanks. Rich Farmbrough, 10:08 13 September 2006 (GMT).

Sorry to bother you again, but sep11:User:Georgia gal has been making some of the same edits as Georgia guy had been... Timrem 20:02, 13 September 2006 (UTC)


ISBN bot error, maybe[edit]

From Bill Gothard:

The ISBN seems to be valid. Its in a lot of places, including amazon. Another site confirms the checkdigit to be correct, though the LOC ISBN converter says it can't hyphenate it properly. Any help on this would be great. Kevin_b_er 04:00, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

As I understand it, no ISBN should start with a 6, it is a reserved range. I've looked unsuccesfully for information about other books published by the same people, perhaps you could email the publishers? Rich Farmbrough, 10:28 13 September 2006 (GMT).
There are] a lot of google hits for "ISBN 6" but not as many as if it were valid...

SFriendly.gifRich Farmbrough, 11:10 13 September 2006 (GMT).

After research at Books in Print and other places, my guess is that some distributor has hijacked the ISBN field (using '6' as a prefix) and is putting their own inventory number in the rest of the field. This would temporarily work for them, because it could never collide with a real ISBN. If this surmise is right, then we should do nothing different than what we already do. That is, we should accept an ISBN as valid only when it is accepted by isbn.org/converterpub.asp. This means that we'd continue to require that the full set of ISBN rules be obeyed. We already know that Amazon doesn't care about validity, so it would not be a surprise that they just accept the word of the distributor. Bill Gothard's four books that are cataloged at LOC all have normal (valid-looking) ISBNs. It turns out the "How to Evaluate Music" is actually a cassette package anyway. So following my own (proposed) rule I'd mark this one as 'No ISBN available', hoping that if it has a real ISBN, someone might provide it in the future. I already checked that it has no OCLC number. EdJohnston 18:32, 13 September 2006 (UTC)


Clare Nasir's article[edit]

Hi Rich. Someone (User:Jaranda) un-protected Clare Nasir's article. Worried but holding. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 18:11, 13 September 2006 (UTC) (talk)


sep11.wiki deletion reviews[edit]

Hey, I noticed you are active on the September 11 wiki. Maybe you can chime in at the current deletion review of sep11:Amadou Arflika and sep11:Mohammed Abed Al-Kareem which for whatever reason seems to have been lodged here on en.wiki. ~ trialsanderrors 21:25, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Winter Soldier[edit]

Hmm, interesting. I wonder how an apparently new anon would have found that. I'm fairly new to this article, having just seen the film. It's surprising that even now, so many years later, the testimony in the film is so disturbing to people that they want to cast doubt on the participants' credibility. I think people probably don't want the things discussed in the film to have really been true. If one doesn't learn from the past... Badagnani 22:31, 15 September 2006 (UTC)


Album format fixes[edit]

  • I do a lot of work with electronic music albums, so I just wanted to say thanks for doing all the format fixing with tracklists and all that. Keep up the awesome! Wickethewok 01:35, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Block on User:64.59.144.21[edit]

Rich, we got a complaint to unblock-en-l from a user using 64.59.144.21 that they'd been blocked, right after fixing vandalism to Joseph Goldberger (which you apparently mistakenly reverted but which was subsequently otherwise fixed).

Can you confirm that the current bock on 64.59.144.21 is anon-only, not a full IP address block? The block log note isn't clear.

Thank you. Georgewilliamherbert 23:29, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Album fixes[edit]

Hi, great job on the album article/infobox fixes. Just one thing I have fixed on a number of articles now, but I figured it might just be better to ask you about it: Is it necessary to exchange <li> tags with asterisks (e.g. as you did on Futures (album) or The Early November/I Am the Avalanche)? I'm sure it's (possibly even in most cases) useful, but I have only seen it mess up the continuity of numberings that don't begin at 1. Maybe you could change your AWB settings? Have a great day, HarryCane 13:31, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the update on the ol/li tags. Concerning Telegraphs in Negative/Mouths Trapped in Static... it's a different issue than the examples I posted earlier (bonus tracks on import/special editions) and I agree, a numbering starting from 16 is a little superfluous. Especially if the first track is in fact track 1 (on the CD), rather than that the first 15 tracks on the disc contain nothing but silence. Yet, I am not familiar with the band/album, and if it appears this way on the back of the case and since Wikipedia/html allows it, I think it doesn't hurt anyone if it's kept this way. I fixed the double numbering though, for aesthetics. Maybe a discussion should be started on the talk page. --HarryCane 15:31, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


- –[edit]

Your AWB edits on album articles seem to have a common error, they add an extra dash in album track lists, so it appears as "- –" rather than just "–", an example being a recent edit [26].

So far it's happened to every album I've been watching, and it's getting rather annoying, please check your edits before saving them. ¬rehevkor¬ 22:19, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Caused by italic track lengths. That particular problem has now been fixed. Rich Farmbrough, 09:24 20 September 2006 (GMT).


Thanks for the help[edit]

WikiThanks.png Thank you for blocking Dralobv. Obviously, your help was invaluable, as it always has been :-)MrFishGo Fish 16:40, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


Barnstar[edit]

Hope you don't mind, but I thought your endeavours should be recognised! --Guinnog 21:25, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


Infobox album modification[edit]

Hi there, since I see you are pretty active cleaning up album infoboxes, I thought I would let you know. Right now, the new infobox has only one problem: when the type is not recognized, and the background color is in hexadecimal, the infobox breaks (like Team Invasion Presents Keyshia Cole). Could you replace the background color with a value, or delete the background color (which is going to be the next modification for the template)? Just wanting to know. Thanks in advance. -- ReyBrujo 21:37, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

The background color is to be dropped. The template will select the background color from the chosen type. The {{Extra chronology}} has been replaced with {{Extra chronology 2}}, and the {{Extra album cover}} should be replaced with {{Extra album cover 2}} (or the contents of this later merged into the former one). -- ReyBrujo 22:06, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
The {{Extra chronology}} is used with the Single infobox, so it needs to keep the Background parameter. That is why a copy was made. After the album infobox is fixed, it should be possible to merge the extra templates just one. -- ReyBrujo 22:27, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


WP:NC(GN)[edit]

I apologize for spamming your talk page, but since you had contributed in the past to the WP:NC(GN) proposal, which is currently ready for a wider consultation, I thought you might want to give it another look now and, hopefully, suggest some final improvements. Thanks. --Lysytalk 22:58, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


Signpost updated for September 18th.[edit]

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ISBN 9780763629885[edit]

Your bot labelled this as a faulty ISBN, while a simple Google search shows it is correct. Did the bot didn't know about 13-digit ISBNs yet or is there another reason this got tagged? Article in question was Sam Stern, which I am cleaning. - Mgm|(talk) 12:33, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

  • I came across a page that said wikipedia ISBNs shouldn't have dashes when I clicked one of them... - Mgm|(talk) 04:56, 20 September 2006 (UTC)


Album infobox colors[edit]

Hello, you've done quite a few cleanups on album pages I've been working on as well, so you're probably the right person to ask. What's the deal with the colors now, are they determined by what type is entered or is light blue just the default which is used when no color is specified? Regards - Cyrus XIII 21:05, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the album type now determines the colour. And there is a new colour scheme, which can be changed much more easily. See Wikipedia:WikiProject_Albums and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject_Albums for details. Rich Farmbrough, 21:49 19 September 2006 (GMT).
Thanks for the heads-up. :) - Cyrus XIII 22:04, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Sam Leach/Vinnyk/Last Memento Of The Beatles[edit]

It looks like there has been another attempt to revive some of the fictions associated with this piece of merchandise: [27] shows. Could you help, please? DavidFarmbrough 09:21, 21 September 2006 (UTC)


Vincent Ruello[edit]

Hi there! I notice you locked this article again... I deleted it yesterday as part of a general campaign to clear out "protected deleted" pages after three months or so (see the admin noticeboard; the idea is that they're usually created by bored high schoolers who will drop the joke after awhile; there's currently about 3000 prot/del pages which are google-indexed and show up on Special:Random, which is undesirable). Of course this does not apply to all prot/del pages since some are the work of persistent vandals. Anyway I don't particularly care about this Vincent either way but I thought I'd give you a heads-up. Yours, >Radiant< 16:35, 21 September 2006 (UTC)


Clare Nasir article vandalism[edit]

Hi Rich. It didn't take too long after the article on Clare Nasir was unprotected for User:195.93.21.33 to vandalise it again, as is the anonymous user's habit. *Sigh* Any ideas ? I know it's a broken record. Luckily someone else reverted it. Bests and Thanks. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 18:19, 21 September 2006 (UTC) (User talk:Wikiklrsc)

About your List of common ISBN errors[edit]

Hi Rich, you sent me a pointer to this list on Sept. 5. Can you clarify what it means? What are the fields after each ISBN? I could use a list to fix ISBNs more quickly, if the same book is cited on more than one page.

On another subject, do you know why the word 'Wikipedia' has to be spelled out when looking for a list such as Wikipedia:List of pages with Invalid ISBNs? I was typing 'WP' instead and it didn't work. Thanks, EdJohnston 17:27, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

The calculated checksum, the number of occurrences (twice for some reason) and notes.
WP is a shortcut so pages like WP:AGF actually exist in the article space I think, and are redirects to Wikipedia namespace. Rich Farmbrough, 17:53 22 September 2006 (GMT).


RE:Rating-5[edit]

A 10 rating was something I had previously decided against creating. However, I just realised now (literally just now, even though it's so simple) that you could simply double the template. e.g. to get 7.5/10 use {{Rating|5|5}}{{Rating|2.5|5}} to get 5/5 stars2.5/5 stars. But if you want to compose one from the SVGs, by all means, go ahead (I think I public-domained them) - Рэдхот 18:27, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I actually just noticed that the description which is auto-added to the images makes it a bit messy. But if you want to extend it properly by modifying the SVGs you can. (Or creating a new template) - Рэдхот 18:29, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


isbn[edit]

Well groovey!
Signed
International Anthropos of funk LoveMonkey 18:37, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


About your edits on article Acute abdomen[edit]

Hi,

please note that a large portion of that article was copyvio. Could save you some work adding the {{wikify}} tag in the future.

--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 22:19, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


Signpost updated for September 25th.[edit]

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Useful edit summaries[edit]

Re: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Yoshiki_Takaya&diff=73917952&oldid=71059180

If you'd have written "Wikipedia:As_of#Deprecated "As of" pages, also non-rendered whitespace changes" in the edit summary rather than "Ced" (copy edit? copy editing involves changing something that's actually visible, no?) it'd've saved me five minutes wondering what you were on and looking through the MoS. I guess maybe your time is more important than other people's. 'Depreciation' doesn't say *why* it's worth me typing 11 extra characters of course, or worth you going round making edits that don't change the rendered page. --zippedmartin 04:58, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Fair comment about the edit summary. The idea behind deprecating the pages is to enable simpler review of "as-of" pages for updating: the whole mechanism may soon be replaced with Template:Update after and others. Rich Farmbrough, 08:51 27 September 2006 (GMT).
Thanks for the reply, especially as it wasn't the most recent of your edits... As of is a bit of an ugly backlink hack, but does have the benefit of getting the date visible in the article (and in not too artificial a manner), which I think's important for readers in some circumstances. Something worth noting in any template debate, maybe. --zippedmartin 13:46, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Bot request[edit]

Your request for approval at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/SmackBot Task X was not completed fully or added to the Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval page. Are you planning on finishing this request or should it be archived and/or deleted? -- RM 04:27, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Edit count[edit]

I noticed here that you have the highest edit count for a non-bot account - congratulations! 0L1 17:26, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Cheers, Rich Farmbrough, 18:52 30 September 2006 (GMT).

Thanks for fixing the Indian Paths of Pennsylvania ISBN[edit]

Thanks for fixing the Indian Paths of Pennsylvania ISBN in Culbertson's Path. I had seen the tag that the ISBN was invalid, but it came off my personal copy of the book and I could not find a valid ISBN on line. I will replace the old ISBN with the working one on the six or seven other places I cite this book. Thanks again, I appreciate this very much, Ruhrfisch 01:13, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Admin intervention against vandalism[edit]

User:John254 had added a blatant vandalism tag, and the IP had vandalised twice more since than. The blatant vandal text says - 'without further warning'. Am I missing something? Catchpole 21:40, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

"Am I missing something" No, maybe I was. I'm reluctant to block when the user has been warned for their last act, so I missed the earlier "blatent". Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 21:54 1 October 2006 (GMT).

Wikipedians by number of edits[edit]

CC, you asked about gettign these data for another wiki, which one? Rich Farmbrough, 15:58 30 September 2006 (GMT).

Tr.wiki. :) --Cat out 16:24, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
Rich Farmbrough, 19:40 30 September 2006 (GMT).

Many thanks for putting this together again. Like most, I edit at a similar pace whether I'm being tallied or not, but IT is more fun this way. A low-tech guy, I haven't a clue how difficult this might be, but I imagine lots. Sfahey 13:39, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

British Royal Residences[edit]

Just to let you know, the link to the above on your talk page does not go anywhere. It links to a page that says no such category exists. Your list of dates don't link to anywhere either. Natalieduerinckx 19:50, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

The category has been moved. Which list of dates do you mean? Rich Farmbrough, 21:20 2 October 2006 (GMT).

I apolozise, I think I misunderstood your list of strange examples of dates on your user page, for real links. I tried to click on my birth date and it did not work, thats all. Silly of me to think that such an experienced user would make a mistake! Natalieduerinckx 22:22, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Signpost updated for October 2nd.[edit]

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Internet Search Environment Number recently added to ISBN page[edit]

Rich, I'm writing about an apparent publicity campaign for a thing called the ISEN, or Internet Search Environment Number. An anonymous user just added a link to it on the ISBN page: [28]. In fact I see your name in the edit history of ISEN so you must have heard ot fit.

This led me to the ISEN page, that appears to me a candidate for deletion, due to WP:N and WP:SPAM. There is no international committee, no standards proposal here, no actual products tagged with the new proposed number, there is only a patent. There aren't even any white papers or full-length explanations. I'm thinking of starting a PROD or AfD on the ISEN article but probably wouldn't do so if I'm the only one who is bothered! Do you have an opinion?

I just saw this note by Rich Litwin [29] so I might write to him as well. I left a message on the talk page of the publicizer of the ISEN, at User_talk:24.166.27.241 but so far there is no response. EdJohnston 20:46, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Looking for advice on dealing with abusive & destructive editor[edit]

Hi, doesn't repeatedly blanking discussions from talk pages count as vandalism? The editor I have a complaint has done this many times on Talk:Hardcore punk. If it doesn't count as vandalism, what other options are there to stop an editor from repeatedly making destructive and innacurate edits to an article, posting personal attacks, deleting legitimate tags and citation requests, and has using several sock puppets instead of signing up for an account. The Wikipedia procedures and help pages are unjustifiably complicated, and not many people are willing to offer direct advice. Dealing with the offender directly does not seem like a viable option, since he is clearly out of control.Spylab 22:16, 3 October 2006 (UTC)Spylab


I would have no compunction about blocking this individual, in fact I've both welcomed and warned him on his user page, and left a warnings on at least one of his IP pages. However I don't like to block after the final warning unless vandalism recurs. If he vandalises again, let me know, or relist on the intervention page. You could list on 3RR now. Rich Farmbrough, 23:04 3 October 2006 (GMT).

The vandal referred to above has been adding innacurate vanity references to this article. Recently he has tampered with talk pages, reverted other edits, posted personal attacks, and used sock puppets.

I have never seen a more blatant case of abuse from an out-of-control user. It is difficult to understand why an admin would fail to act, given such clear evidence of abuse. Auto movil 22:51, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi the problem was presented as below:

Punknyc (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log), 75.215.220.237 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · edit filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) and his countless sock puppets have: 1) repeatedly inserted uncited content into the hardcore punk article, overemphasizing the role of Bob Sallese, 2) has deleted legitimate facts, tags, and discussions, and 3) has made several personal attacks in his edit comments and on the Talk:Hardcore punk page. I have posted the proper warnings on the User:Punknyc talk page.Spylab 20:45, 3 October 2006 (UTC)Spylab

As it says at the top of the page "This page is intended to get administrator attention quickly when dealing with obvious and persistent vandals. For other problems with user behaviour requiring administrator intervention please report to WP:AN/I."
No time for more now. Rich Farmbrough, 23:04 3 October 2006 (GMT).

This is an obvious and persistent vandal. Therefore, this page is the correct venue from which to get administrator attention quickly.

The speed and industry at which this vandal, under numerous IP addresses, has reverted and/or changed this page over a period of roughly two years, outstrips the ability of reasonable users to correct the page. Please refer this matter to another admin if there is an issue of insufficient time to address Wikipedia matters. Auto movil 23:13, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

The vandalism began again today, on schedule. I have used one revert so far. Please review the article hardcore punk for continued vandalism by the user described above, who continues to violate multiple Wikipedia guidelines without sanction. Auto movil 16:16, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


Thanks for helping to resolve this issue fairly and promptly.

Best, Auto movil 17:15, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Offed ISCI[edit]

I asked Rlitwin, a librarian, to comment on the remaining external links on the ISBN page. He endorsed everything else, but said: "I don't know anything about ISCI. It seems to be an advertising industry standard? Not qualified to comment on that one."

Since it stands for *Industry* Standard Commercial Identifier, and since WP readers are unlikely to be looking up TV commercials by number, I decided we could probably do without it. EdJohnston 22:24, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

On to greater heights: the ESBN[edit]

Just now I was editing the ISBN page and noticed that ESBN is mentioned in the link section, and it points to esbn.org. That link isn't working! The numly.com site now has no mention of an ESBN. There is a surviving thing called ESN (Electronic Serial Number) but it only applies to things electronic. For instance, electronic books but not paper books. The ESN is the same as the Numly Number.

If the ESBN doesn't exist any more, does that make the ESBN article a candidate for speedy deletion? :-) EdJohnston 03:40, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

G11'd. Rich Farmbrough, 08:53 4 October 2006 (GMT).

Thanks! While you're at it, there is also a redirect ESBN -> Electronic Standard Book Number. EdJohnston 13:41, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Glitch in SmackBot[edit]

SmackBot currently changes "External link" to "External links", which is a valid change, but the edit summary is incorrect: "External links is plural as there are more than one". This is not the reason that validates the change. The change is valid because "External links" is the correct name, whether there happens to be one link in the section for externals links, or whether there happens to be more than one link in the section for external links, is not important. Gronky 12:46, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Sadly even that is no consensus. Rich Farmbrough, 12:49 5 October 2006 (GMT).
Amazing. How absurd. I've requested a rethink. Thanks for the link. Gronky 13:17, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Reference to References[edit]

Hey, Smackbot just changed "Reference" to "References" when there was only one reference on Odigitrievsky Cathedral InvictaHOG 19:04, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

How very odd. Perhaps because it was the last section and was seen as including the "categories". Thanks. Rich Farmbrough, 19:51 5 October 2006 (GMT).

P.S. Easily fixed for the future. Rich Farmbrough, 19:51 5 October 2006 (GMT).

Afd[edit]

Hi. Would you mind having a look at my contribution to an Afd and let me know if I've overstated the case? It's Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/David_Eden. Not sure if you're a routine "Afd closer", I just want to know if I've gone over the top! Thanks --Dweller 22:40, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Not over the top, although I know what you mean. Looks like a stub worth saving. Rich Farmbrough, 22:47 5 October 2006 (GMT).
Thanks. --Dweller 22:49, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

NYPUNK[edit]

Hi Richard, I took a look. Perhaps you could request a check user to see whether the IPs and accounts are related. I think you're probably right to proceed with semi-protection rather than blocking for the time being. SlimVirgin (talk) 07:22, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

ISBN, Source help.[edit]

Please review the format the ISBN source for Olympic Pool (Montreal). Thanks. Flibirigit 21:10, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Parc olympique : Montréal / réd. Anne Gardon

Ville LaSalle : Les Messageries de presse Benjamin, 1992 48 p. : ill. ; 29 cm CDU : 072.5 COTE : MA 8943

hre.

The format is (now) correct, can't confirm the content. Regards Rich Farmbrough, 21:44 7 October 2006 (GMT).

Monterey clipper[edit]

Thanks for your correction and fixes. This note is to let you know I reverted the numbering scheme for the notes. The wiki system of notes is not good, but my hope is someone will make it better. -- meatclerk 04:48, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

PopMatters not in italics[edit]

Could you make SmackBot deitalicize PopMatters? It has been pointed out that it shouldn't be italicized because it is not a magazine as the article said before. Cheers, Jogers (talk) 16:50, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

vote[edit]

Hi Fellow-WikiPedian, This thing came up: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Where Troy Once Stood. Would you like to vote? Antiphus 20:08, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Nice bot[edit]

The title says it all. ReverendG 03:08, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Bot problem[edit]

Your SmackBot just edited Louden Up Now, and in doing so it made a little problem. The band is !!!, and if the artist is listed like that, it breaks the table it's in. So, I had artist = [[!!!]] instead of [[!!!]]. However, your bot changed it back to [[!!!]] which broke the table. Is there anything you can do so that it doesn't do that again? Could you have it ignore [[!!!]]? Joltman 16:28, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the response. Just wanted to let you know there are two other articles with the same issue, !!! and Take Ecstasy With Me/Get Up, so you'll probably want to exclude them too. Joltman 17:07, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Problem with SmackBot[edit]

Please take a look at this. I guess that the bot needs some tweaking. Regards, Jogers (talk) 20:43, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, but it's pretty much manual from here on in. Rich Farmbrough, 21:02 9 October 2006 (GMT).

Don't want speedy deletion of Thomas Temple article[edit]

Hi Rich. Can you help on this ? User_talk:Mapetite526#Speedy_Deletion_of_Thomas_Temple_article_.3F. Thanks. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 22:04, 9 October 2006 (UTC) (talk)

Many thanks, Rich, for your kind help as ever. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 12:39, 10 October 2006 (UTC) (talk)

Signpost updated for October 9th.[edit]

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Admin help needed[edit]

I have reason to believe that User:Alec - U.K. is a vandal in diguise, he has been doing a lot of edits that are questionable, mixed with other edits that appear on the surface to be ok. However, it's quite possible he is slowly inserting incorrect information. He has made a large number of changes to railway stations, some of then clearly messing things up, others making substantial changes to inforamtion I cannot verify, together with a lot of oddball changes that are not per se wrong. I got your name as listed making a recent change to Streatham Hill railway station. My gut feel is that all his edits for all articles should be reverted as a precaution. --ArmadilloFromHell 02:46, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I've looked, these seem well intentioned edits. I'll keep an eye, two when I can spare them. Rich Farmbrough, 11:58 13 October 2006 (GMT).

Clare Nasir and the vandal[edit]

Hi Rich. Of course, User:195.93.21.33 continues to vandalise Clare Nasir's article ! Luckily someone else found it this time. (cf. User_talk:195.93.21.33#Vandalism_of_Clare_Nasir.27s_article_again) Is there nothing that can be reasonably done ? I know, I know ... Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 19:58, 14 October 2006 (UTC) (talk)

Extended block this time. Rich Farmbrough, 20:24 14 October 2006 (GMT).
I have less patience with AOL IPs now, there are so many ways for the innocent to avoid being caught. Rich Farmbrough, 20:25 14 October 2006 (GMT).

Thanks, Rich, for your kind response and attention to the matter. I take your points on AOL now. Oddly enough, whilst editing other materials, I was just re-reading "Up the Organization" by Robert Townsend (1970) and especially (for a serious semi-demi-giggle) "The Peter Principle" by Dr. Laurence J. Peter (1969). Perhaps it was a synchronistic reading. ;) Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 20:45, 14 October 2006 (UTC) (talk)

Ernham RFC[edit]

Hi. I'm not here to argue with you, your contribution is very welcome and important (outside view). However I would like to give you my thoughts. Taking action like this is not something I do lightly. I have never had cause until now. Yes I have taken the personal attacks personally, including persistently being called a vandal. However I've ignored many instances of being called a vandal before raising the issue. In fact rather than getting more and more annoyed by it I have disengaged more and more; In the latest discussion:

  • [30] Please stop calling me a vandal
  • [31] After again being called a vandal and a stalker my response was "I'll ignore the last sentence. Please stop calling me a vandal. Vandalism is defined as "any addition, deletion, or change of content made in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia." I object in the strongest possible terms to any suggestion that I have vandalised any page. Please consider withdrawing your many remarks (talk page and edit summaries) calling me a vandal. "
  • [32] I told the user that due to the refusal to withdraw the vandal comment and continued abuse I saw no reason for continuing the discussion.

In a nutshell I'm concerned that after many warnings the user is continuing personal attacks and incivility rather than reconsidering their attitude. I don't want to drive this user away, I've helped where I can: help with ext. links and help with 3RR reporting. Thanks for your time, Mark83 21:17, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

I do understand - I read the user's talk page and a fair few diffs when I was looking at his "unblock" request. I think the other editors restraint was commendable. I wanted to share an approach that has got me out of flame wars before they started in the past. It is easy to see "our" point of view - i.e. that of an established, experienced editor, when looking at this type of dispute, harder to see that of a relative "newbie" we don't know. Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 21:29 14 October 2006 (GMT).

Re: Substed inforboxen[edit]

Yes, I was going to check how many articles were left in the category, and found only 58. Someone must have been working pretty hard there! I noticed it was subst'ed, and was thinking about replacing it with the infobox, but your suggestion does sense. I think it should not be too hard, I will base myself in existing ones like prod and afd. -- ReyBrujo 21:37, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

RfC, alas.[edit]

I submitted an RfC on the user PUNKNYC, whom you warned about adding vanity content into the Hardcore Punk article. The warning went unheeded; he's still at it with the same persistence.

See RfC here.

Could you certify that you issued a warning? Thanks! Auto movil 21:59, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

SmackBot finding new ISBN errors?[edit]

Rich, I notice in SmackBot's log that he is hyphenating some more ISBNs. Does that mean there will be some new invalids added to the list? And is there any news on whether ISBN-13's can be checked successfully? EdJohnston 04:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi Ed, this is one of SmackBot's standard tasks, although it is now more intelligent (i.e. fixes incorrect hyphenations) it is aimed at articles with "ISBN:". It may well have picked up invalid ISBNs, but not likely to be more than a few, I probably need to improve the regular scan. Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 10:46 15 October 2006 (GMT).
Thanks for your reply.. On another matter, near the bottom of your user page, there is a cryptic error message about 'Allowed memory size'. Did you mean to have it there? EdJohnston 12:35, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
Congratualtions on being first to spot. I had a lot of WP errors there, most were moved off to a subpage, I left that by accident, but rather liked it. Rich Farmbrough, 12:37 15 October 2006 (GMT).

Question[edit]

Hi there! Long time no see. Could you tell me what "Ced" in an edit summary means? --HappyCamper 15:50, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, "copy edit". I don't remember where I've come across your edits on Wikipedia before. SmackBot? My memory is failing me too. I know you've been here longer than me, and I've been here for more than a year and a half now. "One of the good guys around" I recall. --HappyCamper 16:08, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

ISBN hyphenation[edit]

How do you determine the correct hyphenation for ISBNs? I use User:Diberri's PubMed tool sometimes to create book references, but it just leaves the ISBN as one long number. If Diberri knew how to calculate the correct hyphenation, and could incorporate it into his tool, that might reduce the number of ISBN hyphenations that need to be done by Smackbot. And it would make me feel better to know that I'm doing the citation right the first time, instead of waiting for Smackbot to fix it for me. Lyrl Talk Contribs 00:13, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Forgive me for interjecting an idea, after seeing your question to Rich Farmbrough. I tried out Diberri's tool. It's very handy and I might use it myself. However, it does lack that final step of hyphenating the ISBN. At present www.isbn.org/converterpub.asp is what I use for hyphenating. Perhaps Diberri's tool could be modified to invoke this as well? The advantage of the isbn.org script is it also does a full validity check, so it protects you against inserting an invalid ISBN into Wikipedia. I don't know if the source code for converterpub.asp is available, but you can always invoke the program via their website. EdJohnston 03:07, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Hyphenation rules are here. Ed points out an online resource on my talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 09:23 16 October 2006 (GMT).

Update to Template:Update_after[edit]

Hi! I've made changes to Template:Update after (it now links to Category:Wikipedia articles in need of updating and As of), and made significant changes to the documentation at Template:Update_after (including documenting the built-in ability to add a comment, and a changes in where it's allowable to be used); please review, and provide comments at Template talk:Update after if you think any are appropriate. Thanks! --Scott McNay 03:50, 16 October 2006 (UTC).

Date quibbles[edit]

Hi there.

I've just partially reverted some changes you made to Dependency of Ireland on Great Britain Act 1719; you'd changed 23/11/1719 to a conventional written date. However, this is part of the title of the cited work, not normal text, and as such should probably be left in the unusual form - could you keep an eye out for situations like this in future? Shimgray | talk | 18:11, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I followed the link, although I didn't see the "Cite", I was still happy to change it. But I am biased against xx/xx/xxxx dates... I'm happy to leave it as well. Rich Farmbrough, 21:22 16 October 2006 (GMT).
I'm not too fond of them either, I confess, but I do worry about changing the title of things - there's always the risk it'll confuse matters for someone following the cite later. Shimgray | talk | 22:58, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Signpost updated for October 16th.[edit]

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Quite odd...[edit]

Hi Rich, Could you step into Hardcore Punk for a moment? The same user as before is refusing to respond to the RfC on his actions, while still editing/reverting, etc. as usual. Even more oddly, his latest comeback is, "User:Auto movil should respond to the RfC concerning his persistent violations" -- when there is no such RfC. One is supposed to assume good faith, but it's honestly becoming hard to assume that this isn't some kind of weird practical joke -- or a psychological test of some sort... Auto movil 03:26, 18 October 2006 (UTC)


WPCD2[edit]

Richard, I am not sure if you are the right person to talk to. I am in the process of starting the second WP CD version which will run to about 4000 articles. At present the clean up of these articles is done by script and then volunteer (we have lots of physical volunteers here). I wondered if stealing some of smackbots ideas might help us increase the proportion of the clean up which could be done automatically or give us more flags. I can obviously write a script to detect say "hello mum" on pages but am really after some kind of list of changes needed. Feel like helping? --BozMo talk 08:21, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Article list is here, subject to screening by volunteers on suitability for children and possible late additions from 0.5. Dream is to release a 2007 CD selection just in time for Christmas and get a Sunday paper to distribute it for free with the supplement. Timing depends though on whether the clean up and CSS etc from last year still works (which basically depends on if the wikimedia software has changed since I clean up in HTML). There have been 27000 downloads of the first WPCD, some of which we know for certain we on copied over 100 times so we are probably going to put a bit more effort in generally this time.

Um,[edit]

He just keeps reverting the edits, won't respond to the RfC or abide by warnings. The new thing is to make up counter-accusations, accusing others of exactly what he's doing (e.g., my talk page).

This is the gentleman at Hardcore Punk, btw. What happens if someone just ignores an RfC, ignores final warnings, etc? Is there another process that can be put into effect? Auto movil 19:45, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for stepping in. Auto movil 03:20, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

NETZ Page[edit]

Thanks for your help and guiding me for article on NETZ.Shub_iitkgp

Roy Harper albums[edit]

Thanks for your help with the Roy Harper stuff I have been working on. However, a lot of the album colors, Live, Studio, Compilation etc... are now messed up. Can you put them back ??? Stephenjh

Hi, I have not intentionally changed any colours. Can you give me an example? Rich Farmbrough, 11:21 17 September 2006 (GMT).
HI this is due to changes in the colours generated by template:Infobox Album. Rich Farmbrough, 13:09 18 September 2006 (GMT).

I was quite careful to use the correct colours, but even though the colour is defined as e.g. Orange (Studio album) it shows as light blue. It is fairly straightforward to see the errors where they exist, it has affected a number of Roy Harper albums and I was asking for your assistance as you have had input into most of the 17 Harper album reviews I worked on, and also made changes to the Infobox coding. Stephenjh

Hello, the Infobox Album has changed recently, it takes the album type and generates the colour from that, so that the "background" parameter is now useless (and will be removed in time). The colour scheme has also changed, more details at template:Infobox Album and template talk:Infobox Album. Rich Farmbrough, 09:08 19 September 2006 (GMT).
  • The colour scheme hadn't changed last time I looked! Ah well, I guess I'll have to allow others (or bots) to change everything as I simply don't have the time to create articles that need to be constantly updated due to colour and formatting fickleness \ updates. I thought they were fairly "solid" and informative articles too... Stephenjh

Please archive 08:26, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

question about a band whose page you edited[edit]

I noticed that you edited the entry for The Fray's Movement EP (2002). I was wondering if I could ask you a question or two about this CD (I thought since you edited the page, you might know the answer). I apologize if this area is the wrong place to ask. Is there any way I could email you? Thank you very much in advance for your help. Sincerely, Elizabeth Moore (elizabeth m moore at yale edu)

If you look just under the search box, you will see a number of links called the toolbox. One of them is "email this user". Unfortuantely I know nothing about The Fray or their albums, I have been making a number of stylistic and technical changes to many album pages. However the cover does look like a picture of the inside of a Metro Cammel underground train (or maybe not).

SFriendly.gif Rich Farmbrough, 09:06 21 September 2006 (GMT).

Please archive 08:26, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Note to self[edit]

Check User:Webmasters response. Rich Farmbrough, 21:32 7 October 2006 (GMT).

Please archive 08:26, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

1994 San Marino Grand Prix[edit]

Heya, just a quick point about the F1 race reports such as the above, the dates in the Infobox are automatically wikilinked, there's no need to add the brackets (and doing so simply causes the brackets to be visible in the article). Thanks, Alexj2002 19:21, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Please archive 08:26, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Date fragments[edit]

Hi, Rich! I've just spotted this edit of yours, and I thought I'd ask for a favor.

Linking single years is a habit I acquired in the past two years, and which is very hard to get rid of. I often catch myself linking single years without even thinking that I really shouldn't be doing it. One example is the dates of the Censuses, such as those you corrected in the diff above.

There are currently mighty many references to the 1989 Soviet Census and to the 2002 Russian Census. All of them are constructed as follows:

Population: xxx,xxx (2002 Census); yyy,yyy (1989 Census)

Since you are obviously not making all the changes by hand, would you consider adding an algorithm replacing the formatting above with this:

Population: xxx,xxxx (2002 Census); yyy,yyy (1989 Census)

I'll make an effort to switch, too; it's just that I really don't want to go back and change all existing formatting by hand.

This, of course, is by no means urgent, but I'd appreciate if you could let me know if it could be done. Thanks!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 18:26, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi, this is fairly straightforward, I have started on the fixes. Rich Farmbrough, 22:06 20 October 2006 (GMT).
Can you look at Kemerovo pop 522,6 thousand - does tht mean 6,522? Rich Farmbrough, 22:34 20 October 2006 (GMT).
Thanks for catching it and for your help with cleaning this up. Population of Kemerovo is around half a million; I corrected the numbers. The number has most likely been added by a Russian—in Russian, a comma is used as a decimal separator, and a space to separate thousands. Just a useless fact you might be interested in knowing :)—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 23:36, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Pleasure. Should all be done now. Rich Farmbrough, 21:29 22 October 2006 (GMT).
Thank you again for your time and efforts. While my three-day watchlist now stands at 1,500 items, that inconvenience is well-offset by the fact that I won't have to make all those changes manually :) Please let me know if there is anything I can help with.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 14:20, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Signpost updated for October 23rd.[edit]

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Dates in Global spread of H5N1 in 2006[edit]

Thank you for taking the time to do these. After spending a lot of hours changing the refs to {{cite}}, it's really gratifying to see you take up the torch and bring them to the next level. Thanks! Waitak 14:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

User:162.39.180.2 link-spammed a lot of Education related articles[edit]

Hi Rich. User:162.39.180.2 just put a spurious external link (under the guise of a link called "Education Software") into many many articles on education, etc. (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=162.39.180.2) Unfortunately, I just now don't have time to fix them. I just wanted to point it out. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 18:01, 27 October 2006 (UTC) (talk)

User:Zuzz has reverted all except one, now fixed. Thanks for letting me know. Rich Farmbrough, 19:18 27 October 2006 (GMT).

Thanks, Rich, very much. Bests. --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 19:59, 27 October 2006 (UTC) (talk)

Signpost updated for October 30th.[edit]

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Admin[edit]

Do you think I should run again? AzaToth 20:32, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedians by number of edits[edit]

You know on the top of Wikipedia:List of Wikipedians by number of edits it says:

This list is derived from "stub-meta-history.xml.gz" dated around 23 September 2006 found at http://download.wikimedia.org/enwiki/20060920/.

I was looking around on there and I found another successful dump of information of "stub-meta-history.xml.gz" located at http://download.wikimedia.org/enwiki/20061104/

Could you see if you could update it with this information? semper fiMoe 02:21, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I have been watching the dumps, so enwiki-20041104-stub-meta-history is download:ing, currently at 21%, with 65 hours remaining. For some reason it's transferring at 10k, perhaps the server has been throttled. Rich Farmbrough, 12:44 6 November 2006 (GMT).


Albert Fish[edit]

If your still interested in more on Albert Fish, I have access to the New York Times archive for a month. They have several large articles in pdf format. Do you know if you can recover the ASCII text from a pdf document? I know the NYT does an OCR scan and that text is stored in the pdf as an index so you can find the article in a text search. I wantr to be able to recover some of the pre 1923 articles without retyping them. Even just for short quotes, its easy to make a transcription error. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 17:51, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Jumping in here to say that the version of Adobe Acrobat Professional that I'm using (7.0 for Mac) has the ability to save a PDF file as text. You could always try that. A security feature might conceivably block it, but it's worth a try. Naturally this only works when the PDF has associated text, which is true in your case. EdJohnston 20:28, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Your input would be appreciated[edit]

I've started a Virtual classroom for Wikipedians to learn by each others' example. Currently we are comparing the user interfaces we each use in making use of and work on Wikipedia (operating systems, programs, browsers, extensions, scripts, settings/features, navigation set ups, etc). You are one of the most advanced users I've ever come across, and I hope you will stop by and share with us how you have your computer set up for working on Wikipedia, so the rest of us can learn by your example. Interiot has been kind enough to help get things started by describing some tools and techniques he uses, and I hope you will too. Sincerely,  The Transhumanist   02:31, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Signpost updated for November 6th.[edit]

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Thanks for the input[edit]

I appreciate it. I learned some interesting points from your tips. I'm sure others will too. Thank you.  The Transhumanist   11:47, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Secrets of SmackBot?[edit]

Hello Rich! Tawkerbot and Werdnabot seem to require an administrator to block them if they malfunction. SmackBot is more user-friendly because it will stop if anyone posts a comment to its Talk page. Was it hard to add this capability? Should the other robots consider the same thing? EdJohnston 18:27, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

It was easy because SmackBot is really just an account. It's edits are either done using Firefox and Javascript and hence I will see the "New messages" box, or more commonly AWB which stops on a talk page message anyway. Having said that I have had a few anon IP's leaving "moo" or whatever on the talk page, which is annoying. TB and WB are both more likely to be subject of vandalistic attacks, so it may not be a good idea for them. Rich Farmbrough, 19:21 8 November 2006 (GMT).

Virtual classroom update[edit]

I've written a translation of Interiot's "geekspeak" post. It took me hours to figure out what he was talking about. Some pretty cool tricks, now described in easy to follow steps. I've also thrown in some of my own tricks, have updated my notes on the interface I use, and have answered students questions in the questions and comments section at the bottom of the page. Let me know if the page is helping in any way. Hope to see ya there again soon.  The Transhumanist   23:38, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I read it. Unfortunately I can't get middle-click to work for me at the moment, it's right click <T> for me. Rich Farmbrough, 10:23 11 November 2006 (GMT).

Unilateral removal of the history section in ABC article[edit]

Hi Rich

We have an unpleasant situation about to develop over this action by one "cyberjunkie" ("cj"), who decided all of a sudden that he'd move the entire History section of the ABC article to a new daughter article, without replacing it with a summary. The history section was almost entirely written more than a year ago.

Since this action on 12 September, the section has languished with no text at all under its title, save a link to the daughter article.The action has, in effect, gutted the article, leaving what appear to be insubstantial fragments without a core. It's must be odd to the newcomer to be denied a summary of the history and to move straight onto a chunky section on "funding and relationship with government" without knowing where how the institution arose.

Now, it's not that I disagree with him that the History section was written in greater detail than you'd normally expect in summary style. (A related issue is that the rest of the article may need to be fleshed out in the opposite direction to achieve satisfactory summary coverage of the topic—perhaps the optimal balance needs to be debated on the talk page.) What I do object to is

  • (1) his failure to raise the matter on the talk page beforehand, and
  • (2) provide replacement text with the summary style that he's using as his stated rationale for the removal.

The edit comment for the removal was "split (will summarise later)", whereas I'd have been pleased to see a summary written before the removal, for immediate replacement.

I've raised the matter on the talk page, and Cyberjunkie has responded negatively:

I think a total blank is worse than a long history. Please create a summary soon. Your action has resulted in damage to the overall article, IMV. Tony 11:16, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Whereas, I disagree. --cj | talk 12:41, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I can see that this is getting nowhere. I wonder whether you agree that he should either undertake to write a summary section in the near future (I suggest three or four paragraphs) or reinstate the text and raise the issue on the talk page.

I'd appreciate knowing your opinion. The ABC's talk page is here. Tony 13:52, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply, Rich. Not entirely sorted, since the text that has been provided recently needs to be significantly longer, IMV. But at least it's not a gaping hole. Tony 03:24, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Rating-3 template[edit]

Hey Rich, I'll be more than happy to take care of that (might make a rating-6 also, as they've been known to exist). I'll get the code set up in a few hours, and create the images when I get home from work. I'll let you know when Rating-3 is complete, and set links on the existing templates. I think we need to find an appropriate place to advertise these, as I've not seen a mention of them anywhere in the Wikiprojects. Not sure where would be most appropriate though. Also been thinking about modifying the existing templates to accept 0.1 incriments of input, while still using the half-star icons, but I'll worry about that later. Thoughts? -- Huntster T@C 20:13, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Aye, I saw that comment, which is what got me thinking about allowing actual imput of 6.9 which would render the approximate amount of stars and alt text. It's just a concept idea, and I don't know how difficult it would be to impliment it. -- Huntster T@C 20:23, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Just letting you know that {{Template:Rating-3}} and {{Template:Rating-6}} have now been created. I still need to create the graphics, but I should have that done around 12-14:00 ET Monday. Also, that full decimal system works fine, and I don't see any need for additional graphics outside of the half-star system already in place. Cheers! -- Huntster T@C 04:56, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay, just updating that images are finished and everything is ready to go. I wanted to ask, though, about your Rating-10 template. The resulting image is very wide, and somewhat unwieldy with the current infoboxes. To that end, would you mind if I created some custom, smaller stars for this template, and rework the code? My thought is to reduce the size to about 60 to 70% of current, so it is longer than the other ratings, but not so wide that it doesn't fit well inside the infobox. -- Huntster T@C 19:14, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, make any sane changes you like. Rich Farmbrough, 20:52 13 November 2006 (GMT).
Alright, changes finally made to {{Template:Rating-10}}. If you don't like it, please revert. -- Huntster T@C 10:57, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Delinking Dates[edit]

Hi Rich. So what's the policy with linking dates? I thought I had read some Wiki guide that said linking dates is helpful because it lets people display dates in different formats. Is that not the case? Personally, I couldn't care less, but I want to do the right thing. Thanks! Dfass 14:19, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, absolutely right. But formatting will only be applied where the month and day number are present - e.g. April 13 or 12 May1977. Things like "2002", "January" and "March 1997" by themselves should only be linked under normal "make links only where relevent in context" guidelines. E.G. "May" in the article Maypole or maybe "1066" in Battle of Hastings, "Friday" in Sabbath and so forth. Rich Farmbrough, 14:41 13 November 2006 (GMT).
OK, thanks a lot. Makes sense. Appreciated. (Saves me time, too!) Dfass 14:57, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Another thing you may find useful to know is house style on headings WP:MSH. Basically things are only capitalised if they would be in normal English usage. Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 17:08 13 November 2006 (GMT).

NETZ[edit]

I've put NETZ up for speedy deletion since it is essentially empty / provides little or no context. Hu 21:10, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I suggest that you or the other editor put up the {{inuse}} tag if the intention is seriously to provide content. Hu 21:37, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Signpost updated for November 13th.[edit]

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Edit counter[edit]

The better solution for edit-counting might be (barring integration with Wikimedia) to take an rc feed as AntiVandal-Bot does and once a user has been queried keep their counts updated. I could run a baseline of non-deleted edits at a given dump date, but it would be of limited use becasue of synchronisation issues. What do you think? Rich Farmbrough, 12:03 14 November 2006 (GMT).

1) at that point, you'd more or less have another toolserver. And while we do need either the existing toolserver to work, or a new one to be created, I don't have the skill to do it. And 2) I don't see the point in making a specialized toolserver that only does edit counts, because there are many other pretty important apps that run on the toolserver (probably more important than edit counting). --Interiot 12:53, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I was thinking on the current toolserver. It would be zero load on the main servers. Perhaps I need to apply for a toolserver account. Rich Farmbrough, 21:57 14 November 2006 (GMT).
Additional help is always welcomed. As I said, we really do have a large number of tools that are very useful to run, and several are more important than the edit counter (for instance, commons has a tool that checks whether an image is used on any server before deleting a commons image. Since enwiki and other servers don't replicate to the toolserver, commons deleters have to check these servers by hand every time they delete an image... that's just one toolserver tool that's important to get working). So if you'd like to help, it really would be best to get the general database replication working. Working on only the edit counter would be working on a bandaid that will be discarded once the/a toolserver starts working again.
DaBpunkt has been working on importing a recent static dump of the enwiki database, but it's crashing for an unknown reason every time they try to import it. --Interiot 22:08, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes replication would render it moot, but is the problem on the toolserver? Rich Farmbrough, 22:15 14 November 2006 (GMT).
Incidentally I've been trying for about 10 days to download a partial dump, there's serious problems there too. Rich Farmbrough, 22:19 14 November 2006 (GMT).
MySQL crashes when they import the static dump. I haven't heard whether they know why it might be crashing, but one would think that if it's the toolserver mysql that's crashing, that the problem is likely on the toolserver side. (is that what you were asking?) --Interiot 22:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
No, not really, I was asking about the main reason that replication stopped in the first place, which seemed to be because of the way the en wiki was set up. Perhaps it's worth talking to DaBpunkt as you suggest. Rich Farmbrough, 22:40 14 November 2006 (GMT).
Oh, that. Um, first it was an architecture change (multiple masters to replicate from, which MySQL doesn't do natively). But DaBpunkt hacked a way around that. His replication code was a little buggy at first, but we've fixed almost all the bugs we know about. Then the increasing number of edits by all wikis overwhelmed the disk I/O the toolserver has, so they stopped enwiki just so dewiki and all the others wouldn't indefinitely lag. They ordered a new RAID card, got someone to drive out to Amsterdam, found out it was incompatible. Ordered a second one, drove out there, got it installed okay. So replag was 100+ days by then, so they had to import a static dump rather than trying to replicate the whole way through 100 days, and last I heard they were having problems importing the dump. --Interiot 22:50, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Ollie Harrington[edit]

Dunno if this is an AWB problem or what, but you just added Category:Living people and Category:Year of birth unknown to the article, and Harrington is dead and his birthyear is in the article. I've fixed it, but thought you might want to know in case something is off with AWB. Gamaliel 00:23, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

My fault, I was confused by the subst'ed {{:tl:lifetime}}, out of which AWB pulled the categories. I had meant to go back to the article. Proabaly best not to subst that template though. Rich Farmbrough, 10:01 15 November 2006 (GMT).

Signature[edit]

Hoi: I saw over on Transhumanist's page you had modified your signature to work with only three tildes. I tried playing around with some {{date}} and {{time}} changes to my sig, but I couldn't get them to work without leaving weird templates and stuff in the signature. I also tried adding in ~~~~~ which struck me as fairly clever, but I guess the developers disabled recursive signatures... So how did you do it? --Gwern (contribs) 00:45, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Preferences raw ''[[User:Rich Farmbrough|Rich]] [[User talk:Rich Farmbrough|Farmbrough]]'', {{subst:CURRENTTIME}} [[{{subst:CURRENTDAY}} {{subst:CURRENTMONTHNAME}}]] [[{{subst:CURRENTYEAR}}]] (GMT). And it took me some time to figure out... Rich Farmbrough, 09:33 15 November 2006 (GMT).
Neat! I'm adding it over on Transhumanist in case anyone else was wondering. --Gwern (contribs) 19:19 15 November 2006 (GMT)

Virtual classroom lesson #2[edit]

Well, we've moved on to our second lesson in the Virtual classroom, though each lesson is continuous so we may see more additions to the interface share and compare discussions as well. The current topic of discussion is "stubbing," with a short course to kick things off provided by our resident expert on the subject, Grutness.

To help keep track of what's going on, here's a template you can place at the top of your userpage or talk page:

Discussions planned for the future include scripts, and another on bots. But my head is still spinning from comparing interfaces. I still have some questions left to ask on that subject!

Hope to see you at the Virtual classroom again soon.  The Transhumanist    14:09, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


Re: User:The Transhumanist/Virtual classroom#Some script-related questions[edit]

I've left you some questions about your monobook.js at the virtual classroom.  The Transhumanist   12:47, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Citing articles without ISBN numbers?[edit]

I saw your bot leave a note on a Royal Enfield isbn tag, and thought you might be able to help me with a citation query? User:Seasalt/Ducati Sources shows some primary sources (Ian Falloon magazine articles) used in Ducati Motor Holding, Ducati Quattrovalvole motorcycles and Ducati V-twin motorcycles. I cannot find any ISBN number in them. If these are even able to be used, what format would i properly cite them in? Just one example should suffice. --Seasalt 03:32, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Don't magazines use ISSNs? --Gwern (contribs) 06:16 18 November 2006 (GMT)
Gwern is correct ISSN XXXX-XXXX. You can either use {{:tl:Cite journal}} or follow Wikipedia:Citing_sources (or, of course make it up as you go along). Rich Farmbrough, 10:18 18 November 2006 (GMT).
Yes, if you can find an ISSN for this magazine. Searching online proved fruitless. --KSmrqT 20:04, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
The ISSN portal allows a month's free trial access. Rich Farmbrough, 21:41 18 November 2006 (GMT).

So far, fruitless. no sign of issn. Have sent query to publishers and local issn office. Do you have to have an issn or isbn number in a reference? The Citing sources harvard referencing paragraph seems to suggest that Publisher or ISSN/ISBN is acceptable?Seasalt 12:29, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

No absolutely not a requirement. And indeed ISBNs are edition specific, so can be a hinderance in some ways. Rich Farmbrough, 12:35 19 November 2006 (GMT).
If no ISSN can be found, I think it might be sufficient to give complete ordering information for the actual magazine that you have. That would include the mailing address of the publisher. However, when I went to the web site of the apparent publisher, Federal Publishing Company of Australia, they did not include any magazine called 'Modern Ducati'. This kind of problem makes you wonder if the magazine actually exists, or if the person who originally checked the article wrote the info down correctly. As an alternative, you might look to use one of Ian Falloon's books on Ducati motorcycles, which definitely exist and can be found on Amazon. EdJohnston 03:24, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Every piece of information included with a reference can help a reader find the source, so we like to include id numbers like ISBN and ISSN when we have them. We also like to include the publisher and the date and other auxiliary information. It can happen that a book has been published in hardcover and softcover versions, and by more than one publishing house. Older classics may be republished with commentary, or in a new translation. Multiple editions may exist. Sometimes these things are critical; often, not. The most important thing is, if you have a helpful or vital reference, include what information you have. Maybe someone else can fill in missing data, if it exists.
Consider two examples: William Shakespeare's tragedy Othello, and Douglas Adams' comedy The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. Besides modern versions, we can find two different "original" versions of the Shakespeare online at the British Library site. And Adams' tale exists in numerous variations, including radio, book, and television. If we are speaking of these works in general terms, it probably doesn't matter which version we consult; but if we are doing critical analysis, the differences may be the heart of our discussion. --KSmrqT 08:56, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
And on a more prosaic level, any reference to page numbers in a book, needs a clear definition of the edition used. Rich Farmbrough, 11:15 20 November 2006 (GMT).

Thanks for your support![edit]

Admin mop.PNG A week ago I nominated myself, hoping to be able to help Wikipedia as an administrator as much as a WikiGnome. I am very glad many others shared my thoughts, including you. Thank you for your trust! Be sure I will use these tools to protect and prevent and not to harass or punish. Should you feel I am overreacting, pat me so that I can correct myself. With some luck, this won't modify the time I spend at the different WikiProjects, including Album. Thanks again! ReyBrujo 20:51, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Replacing 13-digit ISBN by 16-digit codes[edit]

Hi Rich. I don't understand this edit by your bot. It replaced a 13-digit ISBN by a 16-digit code. I reverted it for the moment; could you please check? Cheers, Jitse Niesen (talk) 05:51, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Many thanks, this was an odd bug, well worth catching. Thanks for your help on other ISBNs. PLease let me know if you see any more strangeness, and if it's since now, please halt the bot. Rich Farmbrough, 12:54 19 November 2006 (GMT).

Moving (US) pages to (U.S.)[edit]

Could I ask you to undo those moves until we settle the debate? I mean the disambiguators, not pages like First aerial victory by the U.S. military, those I don't mind at all.

Thanks a lot! hike395 07:29, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

OK, I guess we can leave them inconsistent for a while. Thanks hike395 04:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Sago Mine Disaster[edit]

Hope you're well. Could you check for the vandalism by the anon. user and delete it without reversing the entry. Didn't notice it when I made a small change. I couldn't figure a way to go to line 114 without scrolling down. Is there a way?

This same anon. user did a minor vandalism on my user page, but I fixed that. I suspect someone should keep an eye on his larky edits.

P.S. The anti-wiki blog e y e o n l i n e reached huge proportions until he quieted down on in August My novelist friend in FL has no idea who he is, despite the fact that he portrays himself as a famous writer. Eye keeps deriding me by name. Such is the lot for those of us who write without alias, alas. Cheers, --Beth Wellington 22:57, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Thanks for your reply. Was trying to avoid the deletion from an earlier version, so as to preserve later changes. That's why I asked for an easy way to get to a specific line.

Thanks for the link. The wikiarticle says that U n g a r e t t i, the poet Mr. P translated for G r a n d s t r e e t, etc., is one of the foremost of his country in his century, but looking at said translations <allinfoaboutpoetry.com/features/ungaretti> I can't agree, unless something was, by Mr. P, "lost in translation." And to set the record straight I neither know E m e r e r s o n personally, nor operate any fan clubs. And she lives on the opposite side of Virginia. Sort of like saying everybody in Wales knows everybody in London. I never responded, neither on his blog nor mine, since Mr. P does seem to be perpetually p'd off at us and to have a lot more time than I do to pursue his snit.  :} --Beth Wellington 17:00, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

  • I'm not a programmer so I won't be writing any java script. off for Thanksgiving and need to turn in an article, first. Check this out, if you want to do instead of pursuing Mr. P:

Commentary: Mountaintop Removal Sites - "Strip Mining on Steroids" Beth Wellington's commentary delves into the complex history of this controversial mining operation, with background that highlights corporate and public interest positions, as well as relevant legislative history.

http://www.llrx.com/extras/mountaintopremoval.htm

(Still a draft, but she wanted something by Sunday night and she sends out notices to her list of updates.)--Beth Wellington 17:39, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

--Beth Wellington 17:39, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Editcountitis[edit]

Hey Rich!

Thanks for updating the list. As an editor with severe editcountitis, I always get a thrill out of seeing the new list. As I understand things, it's not very easy to update because it's so unwieldy, so thanks for taking the time and effort. Oh, and congrats on staying on top 'o the list. :)

Happy editing, Firsfron of Ronchester 04:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

It's a pleasure. Rich Farmbrough, 10:57 21 November 2006 (GMT).

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Thanks for catching my forgetting to date the wikify tag, etc[edit]

I completely forgot to date my wikify, etc, tags on a bunch of articles.. thanks for the catch. Perel 08:44, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

ISBNs[edit]

Yeah, in the rest of the world I usually see them with hyphens, but here on Wikipedia I've seen them more often without - as long as the hyphenated ISBNs bring you to the right page, it's fine with me. ThanksTvoz 07:54, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Just an opinion on an image's fair use[edit]

Just thought I'd request your inputs as a third party. Image:Iraqi Sniper.jpg is an image from NY times. It is a controversial photo that raised some eyebrows in USA for being unpatriotic (sources provided in image summary). user slimvirgin notes in the talk page that it doesn't fall under fair use since it's of some commercial value, though it's almost 1/2 year old photo. I can scale down the resolution if needed but I have uploaded this just like the Muhammad cartoon for the image itself being a bit controversial. pl give some pointers in this direction or point me to someone who might be well versed in these image issues. Thanks. Idleguy 08:34, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

SmackBot, uncat, and stubs[edit]

I notice that SmackBot is adding {{uncat}} to articles that have stub categories. This proved somewhat contentious when Bluebot was doing this: see the discussion at WT:CAT, and the bot's talk page. I suggested by way of a compromise measure instead tagging these with {{uncatstub}}, which puts them in a separate maintenance category, which met with some agreement, and hopefully keeps all parties at-least-somewhat-happy. (And I've been redoing these that way with Alaibot.) If you're agreeable to doing so, and it's not too inconvenient to tweak the script, could you tag those that way too? Thanks. Alai 21:54, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

OK, just checking you were aware of the discussion -- though I think my bot may be passing you in that regard. :) A handful being tagged with {{uncat}} probably won't attract much controversy, just so long as it's not greatly enlarging the uncat-cat, as BB was. Alai 22:04, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Your very high edit count[edit]

May I ask how you have acquired an edit count of over 150,000? What do you do on Wikipedia? You must feel utterly exhuasted! Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 21:05, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I read WP, and fix errors I find. When I fix an error I like to fix all instances of it, sometimes this can be done by hand, sometimes it has to be. Where possible I get my bot (SmackBot) to do it, but even then I will run a few hundred edits testing the process. For example almost every album article has been modified by SmackBot, but there are other changes that can't be fully automated. Rich Farmbrough, 21:54 25 November 2006 (GMT).
I see. Thankyou for your prompt reply. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 21:57, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Ah ha! You're a cyborg...half bot, half man...I knew it!  :-) —Doug Bell talk 05:01, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

WP:RFBOT[edit]

Your recent bot approvals request has been Approved for Trial. Please see the request page for details. -- RM 18:03, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

WP:RFBOT[edit]

Your recent bot approvals request has been approved. Please see the request page for details. -- RM 18:39, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Ejaculation[edit]

Why did you revert my comment on that talk page? It's not like it was vandalism, as it's not the actual article. It was merely having a sense of humour. The Duke of Rich Farmbrough 03:24, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

SmackBot and the unreferenced tag[edit]

Looks like a good start. I know some other maintenance tags have the "All articles X" supercat, but do you think that's really necessary since we have Category:Articles lacking sources? I was hoping to be able to 'move' {{unreferenced}} instances to only subcategories so we could walk through the above category, but you know more about AWB than I do. What do you advise (up to and including me getting AWB to help out)? Nevermind, did a few edits and I see where it removes it from the supercat. Pretty slick. -- nae'blis 04:58, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your support at RFA[edit]

I wasn't going to send thank-you cards, but the emotional impact of hitting WP:100 (and doing so unanimously!) changed my mind. So I appreciate your very considered support for me at RFA, and hope you'll let me know if I can do anything for you in the future. Cheers! -- nae'blis 00:06, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

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I'm sorry...[edit]

...but what are you talking about? I loaned my account to my friend yesterday, so if he did something using my account I apologize. The Duke of Rich Farmbrough 06:41, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, yeah.. Rich Farmbrough, 23:06 29 November 2006 (GMT).

Thanks for the info Chief! --Darrendeng 09:40, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

WHIPS[edit]

Hi, Rich Farmbrough. Thank your for your correction at "WHIPS"

Could you please explain me the meaning of "Ced Date fragments". To avoid this error in the future I must understand the whys.

Thank you.Randroide 11:05, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

O.K. Copy that, specially the part about the dates linking. Thank you, Rich Farmbrough. Randroide 11:13, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikifying dates[edit]

Is it really necessary to wlink every single date in an article, no matter how insignificant it may be to the article? Two of the three you recently did in Bitis arietans are only for when I accessed certain external links and have nothing to do with the article. No offense, but isn't this overdoing it a bit? (PS -- You can answer here, as I've temporarily added your talk page on my watchlist.) --Jwinius 11:53, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

When a date includes a day and month, user formatting preferences ("my prefernces" "Date and time") will be invoked by linking it, e.g. [[10 April]] can show as either April 10 or 10 April, and hence should almost always be linked. Any associated year should also be linked viz: 10 April 1962 because the software can display this as 1962-04-10 for those who have their date preferences set to ISO. In due course a feature may be added to MediaWiki allow a different syntax from linking to do this. Rich Farmbrough, 12:21 29 November 2006 (GMT).
That's swell, but what's the point? I can understand wlinking the date of a famous person's birth or death, for example, since that might be significant to some readers ("Oh, look: he died on the same day as such-and-such was born!"), but why wlink something so arbitrary as the date that an external link was accessed? --Jwinius 12:44, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
It's not the linking that's important, it's the formatting. (The wikisyntax currently overloads the double square brackets operator. The developers have been asked to provide a different syntax.) If you have your date preferences set you will see all these dates in your preferred format, otherwise you will see a mish-mash of formats. Rich Farmbrough, 14:05 29 November 2006 (GMT).
Oops! Sorry, I wasn't reading you right at first, but I do now. I'll be sure to follow your example from now on. Cheers! --Jwinius 02:27, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

SmackBot behavior[edit]

You should change SmackBot to use {{linkless}} instead of {{orphan}} because 'orphan' redirects to 'linkless'. — Chris53516 (Talk) 21:44, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Here's a strange Edit summary recently entered:

(diff) (hist) . . m Thermite; 13:43:52 . . SmackBot (Talk | contribs) (Proj album changes/Fmt track listing/Date fragments delinked &/or gen fixes using AWB)

It sure doesn't look like it corresponds to the change made. FYI. — EncMstr 22:04, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Dating tags[edit]

Acknowledge message. Thanks. --meatclerk 22:01, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Error but not obvioisly bad enough to stop Smackbot for.[edit]

See [33]. There are two issues here 1) I'm not sure it should be subbing in talk space 2) it certainly shouldn't be subbing in when it has nowikis around it. JoshuaZ 07:51, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Rich Farmbrough, 07:54 1 December 2006 (GMT).
I've rolled back a few more that I saw in the bots recent contribs. All with the nowiki template around them. JoshuaZ 07:56, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks again. Should avoid nowikis now. Rich Farmbrough, 07:57 1 December 2006 (GMT).
Note that some of them may have the nowikis slightly farther away from the template in question such as this one. JoshuaZ 07:59, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Actually, looking at some of the recent ones I had to revert (I've only looked at a small fraction of its edits) it may make sense to only do it on talk pages if the tag is in the header. (see for example [34] ). Last comment about your bot. I promise. JoshuaZ 08:03, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Hmm. All live transclusions should get something done to them so that they eventually get human attention, even if that is to "nowiki" them. And I think all the nowiki's are being avoided, that example would be just before I made the change. Your comments are most welcome, as they have improved what's being done. Rich Farmbrough, 09:27 1 December 2006 (GMT).

There was an edit made to Talk:Gaussian integral at 7:59 GMT today that broke both these rules (talk space and nowiki). That is, after your comment at 7:57; dunno if you've fixed it since. Cheers, Lunch 22:35, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, in future I'll only be looking at pages where the template is invoked so less likely to be a problem, but I will test to see if theres a bug, or just a timing or other mistake by me. Rich Farmbrough, 22:52 1 December 2006 (GMT).

Date linking[edit]

Hi. I wondered if you would be interested in contributing to User talk:Guinnog/date linking? --Guinnog 18:24, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Subst tags[edit]

Sorry, I was told 2 weeks ago by another editor to use the subst tag to reduce strain on the servers and prevent blanking of the tag. Would you be so kind as to point me towards a resource that explains when and when not to use them? Cheers. L0b0t 21:18, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Always use it for prod and afd, or they won't work properly. Wikipedia:Template substitution explains the pros and cons, reasons to subst and not, and gives lists of "always, sometimes and never". Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 21:24 1 December 2006 (GMT).
Thanks, I will learn it and follow it in future. Cheers. L0b0t 21:35, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

ISSN link question[edit]

Please see my entry at Talk:International_Standard_Serial_Number; I'm hoping you can figure out a fix! :-) I was getting ready to fix some ISSNs and ISBNs, and now realize I have a headache, and better not do so now. Regards, Keesiewonder 14:25, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

See my response on the above talk page for a temporary ISSN checker you can use. EdJohnston 18:19, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Excellent! Somehow, I knew you'd come up with something. Thank you! Keesiewonder 22:34, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Smackbot and {{notability}} / {{importance}}[edit]

You chose an unfortunate moment to start date-tagging these; per this discussion, I'd been back-sorting these by month of original tagging, and had it down to a remainder, almost all from November... which have now been tagged as December, which will now be rather large by the time the month is out. Perhaps I should have mentioned this earlier... Alai 17:06, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I've just done something similar for "unreferenced", although more rough and ready (I missed the nuance of cl_timestamp). We could move all the dec category to nov fairly simply, what do you think? Rich Farmbrough, 19:37 2 December 2006 (GMT).
P.S. Annoying that the dump has failed yet again. Rich Farmbrough, 19:39 2 December 2006 (GMT).
I didn't think of using the timestamp myself, until Radiant suggested it. I was thinking of something along those lines: but don't do them all, I have a list of the category contents from early-ish on Dec 1st, I'll use that. Alai 19:41, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for doing APUG. Rich Farmbrough, 19:46 2 December 2006 (GMT).

Peanuts on popular culture[edit]

Thanks for your prompt follow-up on the glitch, and your advice on this article. I removed the unreferenced tag and gave my reasons. Someone put it back and gave his or her reasons. Good enough! At least it no longer exists in am informational vacuum. Have a great day! Karen | Talk | contribs 23:21, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

{{admin}}[edit]

Please take a look at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#WP:LA. Cheers, NoSeptember 08:16, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Importance Template[edit]

Thanks![35] I thought it should take a date field, but I couldn't remember the syntax and {{importance}} doesn't specify how. I'll have to remember that one. -- JLaTondre 15:26, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

My pleasure, but don't worry, various bots date such monthly maintenance templates. Rich Farmbrough, 15:28 3 December 2006 (GMT).

ISBNs and the SmackBot[edit]

Please take a look at this edit: It breaks the info box for Discworld. I don't know if you should exception it or if you can write the code to see it as not an ISBN to fix. Thanks, Dimitrii 02:14, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Health Wiki Research[edit]

A colleague and I are conducting a study on health wikis. We are looking at how wikis co-construct health information and create communities. We noticed that you are a frequent contributor to Wikipedia on health topics.

Please consider taking our survey here.

This research will help wikipedia and other wikis understand how health information is co-created and used.

We are from James Madison University in Harrisonburg, Virginia. The project was approved by our university research committee and members of the Wikipedia Foundation.

Thanks, --Sharlene Thompson 18:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia Research Project Results[edit]

The results from my research project are available User:Nonplus/survey. Nonplus 13:37, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Rich Farmbrough, 13:40 5 December 2006 (GMT).

Signpost updated for December 4th.[edit]

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Linking years when the day/month is present[edit]

I see you fixed my date formatting at Christopher Spencer (author) from [[May 25]] 1969 to [[May 25]] [[1969]]. I thought wikilinking the year was always optional, but I've discovered I was wrong. Has it always been like that, or has it changed? Regards, Mr Stephen 15:05, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Certainly for a very long time. It is of course only a guideline. Rich Farmbrough, 15:06 5 December 2006 (GMT).
Thanks for the information. Memo to self: read the MOS again. Regards, Mr Stephen 16:12, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Formatting[edit]

Hi Rich. I'm wondering why you reformat edits, specifically by removing the spacing in headings. -- Fyslee 17:11, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Just how I (and a lot of editors) prefer it. Rich Farmbrough, 22:32 5 December 2006 (GMT).

Minor Smackbot problem[edit]

In this edit on Washington State Route 240, obviously the word Reference should have been capitalized, and I have no preference for the placement of the stub category -- but in moving it to the bottom, you added an extra line of whitespace. Reverted here.

Like I said... it's a very minor Smackbot problem. ;-) -- NORTH talk 00:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your note. This is standard WP:AWB behaviour if "general fixes" is selected, presumably for readability of the wikisource. As you say, very minor one way or the other. Rich Farmbrough, 09:45 9 December 2006 (GMT).

Your move of Oregon Superintendent of Public Instruction for capitalization[edit]

Just double checking, since the applicable MOS article states:

When referring to a specific office, generally use uppercase: "The British Prime Minister is Tony Blair."

It then waffles by adding that other manuals indicate lower case in the absence of the article, "the," and does not seem to contemplate the use of the title of an elected official as the title of an article at all.

So, I looked for guidance by titles of correlary articles elsewhere in Wikipedia (e.g., California Superintendent of Public Instruction), and styled accordingly.

I'm new enough at this that I am certainly not making a protest. I am just wondering if there an amplified version of the MOS somewhere that might address this issue more fully, so that I can avoid titling articles in a manner which requires such moves in the future. -- J-M Jgilhousen 10:42, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

You may very well be right. I wasn't asking for a revert, simply clarification. I am attempting to at least appear educable. You know, old dogs, etc. -- J-M Jgilhousen 10:48, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Pacific Western University[edit]

Was this an AWB edit? Either way, it's not wise to perform such edits on protected pages, particularly those protected as Office Actions. Chick Bowen 23:09, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, just saw that you'd posted about this on the talk page first. Even though you got no response from Danny there, I'd still say in future it would be best to avoid such edits. Chick Bowen 23:12, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, common sense says that it's OK to make the edit, paranoia says don't. WP runs on a bit of both! But PWU was the only article on the whole of WP with an undated tag of that kind, so as the change was non-substantive I went ahead. However it does leave the situation with these Office actions as very unsatisfactory, even if understandable to some extent. Rich Farmbrough, 23:17 6 December 2006 (GMT).
I understand what you mean about paranoia, but my thinking is that the best way to avoid debate about what counts as a substantive edit is not to edit them at all. Yes, I agree that the whole situation is unsatisfactory, but there seems to be an agreement (one that Danny has enforced rather strenuously) that WP:Office is the only policy to which IAR doesn't apply. I meant my comment originally solely as advice, though, take it or leave it. Chick Bowen 23:29, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes, taken in that spirit. Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 23:37 6 December 2006 (GMT).

Template parameters, named vs. ordinal[edit]

Hi, be careful with these. Some use "date=" and some use {{{1}}} and some are undated. While it would proabably be good to make them all "date=" it would need to be planned carefully. Your recent changes to Template:Unreferencedsect threw hundreds of articles out of their dated categories. Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 14:58 7 December 2006 (GMT).

Ok. Thanks for catching that. Are named parameters generally favored over ordinal ones? While it is a bit more work for the user, named parameters will allow for easier modification to the template (an important thing in a wiki), and don't cause problems with meta-templates which take multiple parameters, like {{tlx}} and {{tlrow}}. Hmm. -- PatrickFisher 15:06, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
The answer is, as usual, "it depends". But with these cleanup templates a number of bots add the date parameter, so the extra work is negligable. And having the bots do it means you don't get things like "Devember" as I typed earlier today, or more subtley "december"- lower case "d". Also if you add a named parameter to a template and it is unused, it doesn't matter, as you hint above. Rich Farmbrough, 15:17 7 December 2006 (GMT).

Countess de Castiglione[edit]

Hi

I was just wondering why this article may need a "cleanup"...

Thx for answering

Sincerily Paris75000 21:30, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I didn't tag it, merely dated the tag. However Ihave attempted to cleanup links, dates, capitalisation etc. Have a look. Rich Farmbrough, 21:40 8 December 2006 (GMT).


Thx, best greetings, Bye Paris75000 21:45, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Doing something about the ridiculous date autoformatting/linking mess[edit]

Dear Rich—you may be interested in putting your name to, or at least commenting on this new push to get the developers to create a parallel syntax that separates autoformatting and linking functions. IMV, it would go a long way towards fixing the untidy blueing of trivial chronological items, and would probably calm the nastiness between the anti- and pro-linking factions in the project. The proposal is to retain the existing function, to reduce the risk of objection from pro-linkers. Tony 14:37, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, left out the link:

Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(dates_and_numbers)#A_new_parallel_syntax_for_autoformatting_dates —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tony1 (talkcontribs) 14:50, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

SmackBot and Linkless/Orphan tag[edit]

I see that SmackBot is currently changing {{linkless-date}} to {{orphan}}. Given that Template:Orphan redirects to Template:Linkless, wouldn't it be more consistent to change it to {{linkless}}?

Yours for nitty-gritty details.... --Alvestrand 19:29, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Would be nice to be consistent. Where should the debate be held? --Alvestrand 21:06, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Category:All articles lacking sources[edit]

I asked for the rationale for this category at Template talk:Unreferenced#Category:All articles lacking sources. Seeing that you created the category, I thought that you would probably be able to answer my question. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 02:57, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I've answered at Template talk:Unreferenced#Category:All articles lacking sources. Rich Farmbrough, 21:55 10 December 2006 (GMT).

The List[edit]

Hey Rich,

On the list you have User:Template namespace initialisation script listed as a regular user. Isn't this a bot? Firsfron of Ronchester 05:15, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, how strange... Rich Farmbrough, 11:28 10 December 2006 (GMT).
Ah User:Portal namespace initialisation script is flagged as a bot, but not User:Template namespace initialisation script. Mystery solved. I have manually changed it. Rich Farmbrough, 11:40 10 December 2006 (GMT).
See also [36] Rich Farmbrough, 11:43 10 December 2006 (GMT).

Can u help[edit]

Rich, it is probably unfortunate for u sometimes looking like someone who knows wiki procedure, but here's a query. (It may be outside yr ambit, but who to ask?) I made a very dumb edit referring to Russian "looting" of the BMW factory, (what was i thinking? aaaargh!), in a Cossack motorcycle article in the early hours one night. Because of my involvement, I'm a bit close to it to be safe talking to this guy that has made this post on the MotorcyclingProject discussion page. (IP address only). Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Motorcycling#Vandalism by POV and misinformation I do not want to do the wrong thing here. Seasalt 13:46, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Do you have any advice on dealing with this? Is this sort of post permitted? Seasalt 13:46, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, you could take it as a personal attack, or lack of [{WP:AGF]]. Or, if you can manage it, leave it alone. As an uninvolved party assuming good faith, it is clear to me from that talk page that your intentions were honorable, and that the IP has overreacted a bit, and not quite managed to calm down. Bottom line, the article is fixed, no-one is likely to think the worse of you (apart from the anon, possibly, whcih you can't do much about), forget it and move on. Rich Farmbrough, 14:01 8 December 2006 (GMT).
Special:Contributions/203.206.103.188 has now registered as Special:Contributions/M-72 and has continued his argument. He looks like a stayer. There are no admins or third parties who limit this? He seems to have good Russian motorcycle knowledge, looking at his posts so far, but WP:AGF does not seem to register. You will possibly be exasperated with me for asking, but if he is going to persist it is going to be very difficult. Seasalt 13:15, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you Rich. Just seeing a couple of posts made me feel better anyway. If I am lucky, he will read the Five Pillars, and ease up. Much appreciated. Seasalt 11:39, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Rest[edit]

Toufuku-ji hojyo3.JPG

Have a rest[edit]

The Xing aknowledges your hard work, and offers you a rest in his garden.

The Xing 19:15, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Anon IP[edit]

Personal attacks have no place on Wikipedia, and you will get blocked in short order if you persist with them. Rich Farmbrough, 20:13 10 December 2006 (GMT).

I believe, by showing up in my talk page, you are referring to NetSnipe's remarks to me of 'fucking care' and 'you are paranoid', right? And if not, why not? 81.131.101.50 20:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

ISBN vs. AWP[edit]

Hi Rich, I'm a relative new player who has a high interest in authors, book cataloging, ISBN tracking and such. I happened to go by the Margaret Truman page a bit ago and noticed that the ISBN groups on her page were messed up. I have researched and installed the ISBN data onto a number of author pages and living with a retired librarian I think I have a pretty good understanding of this system. In looking at the history on the Truman page I saw that you had done some formatting of the ISBN's using AWP. I just looked at the page on AP and just briefly reviewed it. I also have a copy of the work that I did on that page originally. My first (and only, at this point) is that AWP doesn't like ISBN. It has misaligned the ISBN structure on the Truman page. Please review the ISBN page on Wiki. Currently there is a 10 digit layout consisting of the following: X-XXX-XXXXX-X In 2007 it expands to 13 digits of X-XXX-XXXXXXXX-X. Both systems use a 4 block group. The main change is the expansion of the third block. I don't understand what AWP did but in some cases it changed the size of the 2nd data block and even eliminated the dashes. The main problem that I see is that the publishing industry has jumped the gun and started putting the 13 digit assignments in their new books but their structure is all over the spectrum and one publisher even created a five block data structure. For the time being, I would recommend taking a "wait and see" approach. You cannot rely on LoC (Library of Congress) since they use a straight number string with no dashes. The Wiki standard for ISBN states that a post-2007 ISBN might be four OR five data blocks. Additionally, there is no requirement for a publisher to assign an ISBN to a book or display it, HOWEVER, Bookstoreswill only deal with books bearing an ISBN. Isn't that just precious? And then there is the EAN barcode. I will re-correct the Truman page but I thought I'd let you know about this issue. Have a great day. 66.242.209.79 22:28, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Hello Rich and Ekotkie. I disagree with User:Ekotkie's recent changes to Margaret Truman, and I'm concerned he believes the publisher code is always 3 digits long. I replied at more length on his talk page [37]. EdJohnston 20:31, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry[edit]

Sorry, I realized too late that I wasn't logged on for my last msg. Ekotkie 22:30, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

date-links[edit]

Rich—I agree entirely with your comments in their own frame, but I'm very concerned that adding any detail beyond the current minimalist approach will sink the push with the developers. I even hope that they don't get back to us and ask for input on these, because that will invite a huge debate on their patch, and possibly capsize the request.

This is a fear that I've acquired from reading the previous attempt at Bugzilla, and from comments by MattWrigth et al. Keeping it minimalist also, in a way, empowers the developers, which is my strategy. Make it easy for them and make them feel in control.

Since whatever change they make should be relatively easy for them, technically, my strategy would be to go with it and make another request for improving the functionality down the track, when people have seen that "hey, it can be changed; it can be better". Further changes won't mean undoing much, I'm thinking.

What do you think?

Tony 00:31, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

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You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot 05:16, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Greeting, fellow bot operator[edit]

I see that you are listed as a fellow bot operator. I have been regorganising the wikipedia bot help pages to try and provide more information for those who want to learn how to create a bot or have quesitons relating to how to run a bot on wikipedia (more nuts-and-bolts than the existing policy page, which deals with what you are allowed to do, not how you would go about doing it). I've made a start at Wikipedia:Creating_a_bot but could do with any feedback at all. I could do with any programming-language specific information that you can provide as well as any suggestions for improving the article. I'm leaving this same message with 5 other bot operators, to encourage them to pass on the knowledge we have learned developing our bots to the "next generation" of wikipedia bot-builders! Cheers - PocklingtonDan 15:22, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Glad you liked the look of PockBot. Unfortunately, it seems someone might have blocked it at the moment, its having difficulty writing its results to wikipedia despite its code remaining unchanged. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by PocklingtonDan (talkcontribs) 17:08, 12 December 2006 (UTC).

bug in PocKleanBot[edit]

It shouldn't have written more than once. Dammit, a bug. Please feel free to block until I can fix this. - PocklingtonDan 19:44, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

No hurry for this[edit]

You might like to consider replacing: "You should use this section to discuss possible resolution of the problem and achieve consensus for action. Only when there is a consensus that the article is now cleaned up should you then de-list it by deleting the cleanup tag from the article, this causes the article to drop off the monthly cleanup-needed list page." with: "You can use this section to discuss possible resolution of the problem and achieve consensus for action. When there is a consensus that the article is cleaned up please remove the cleanup tag from the article."

Main reason, asking and offering instead of instructing, some wpians are very sensitive... Also no need to explain what the tag does, they probably either understand in a broad way, or don't care about the details. Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 20:01 12 December 2006 (GMT).

Thanks, done now. I have also found and fixed the bug that made it able to write twice tot he same user's tlak page, it was due to an earlier change when I went from pringting the templates to subst:ing them - PocklingtonDan 20:20, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Dan[edit]

Don't be downhearted. Rich Farmbrough, 21:01 12 December 2006 (GMT).

Thank you, but I have withdrawn the bot, it's too much hassle! - PocklingtonDan 08:32, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

WPCD[edit]

Hi Richard. Any chance you could run smackbot over http://2007-wikipedia-cd-selection.fixedreference.org/wp/index/alpha.htm and see if you can pick up any obvious recent added grafiti? --BozMo talk 17:12, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Mainly to check and get rid of obscenities (or tell me if they are part of an article) plus signature grafiti ;eqokgnw;evn type. --BozMo talk 18:12, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

OK thanks. I was given a bad steer then! --BozMo talk 21:05, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

References[edit]

Or more strictly references. There is a system that means the references (footnotes, whatever) can be entered in the text body, and show up together where <references /> is entered. So to edit the references just edit the whole article if it's short. Or clcik on the ^ next to the ref in question, whcih will take you to the place it occurs in the article. There is another system where the text is at the end, but it's used less now. Rich Farmbrough, 19:40 13 December 2006 (GMT).

Hi Rich, I dabbled a bit tonight with that ^ business and it worked like a dream. Wish I had known that earlier as I would have wiped out a few more faulty ISBN's I am puzzled a bit by the fact that in some cases, doing a full page edit doesn't always give you the data for reference items. I will stick with this other way when I need it. Thanks for the tip. BTW, did you use a bot to run that ISBN check in the first place? Did it install those "too long/too short templates? Nice touch. Going cross-eyed doing on-screen hunts for those templates. Lots of work ahead.Ekotkie 07:20, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi Ed, yes I used my bot account User:SmackBot. I started out removing ":" from "ISBN:" and it snowballed. I've just improved the regular expressions to label checksum errors, so I'm doing another run. (Previously I could only label the article as a whole.) I'm considering migrating ISBNs to 13 digits, but I know there would be a lot of disagreement about such a move. Rich Farmbrough, 09:23 14 December 2006 (GMT).

Update on previous findings about published-invalid ISBNs[edit]

Hello Rich. I felt that your Talk page deserved to have the latest info about published-invalid ISBNs. Rather than make edits to your archive page for 5 Sept 2006, here are some previous items, copied over and updated with new info.

2-10-4. Jack Farrell, 'North American Steam Locomotives: the Berkshire and Texas Types'. The ISBN originally given in WP was 91-571-3151-2, which is invalid. It seems most likely to be a copying error, rather than published invalid. (Can't be sure without seeing a physical copy of the book). I updated the WP article with the correct ISBN, 0-915713-15-2.

A Certain Woman, by Areo Takishima, published 1978. Now marked in WP as 'No ISBN available'. Originally published with ISBN 0680082377, which is invalid. The Library of Congress still has it entered under the bad ISBN and even finds it by that number using an ISBN search.

I'saka language lists 'I'saka grammar' by Mark Donohoe and Lila San Roque, published in 2004. Now marked as 'No ISBN available'. WP originally gave the ISBN 0-85883-554-4, which is invalid. No replacement for the bad ISBN is currently available. LOC lists the book in its catalog, but does not given an ISBN for it, and MARC offset 020 is an empty field.

Ahmad al-Alawi lists a book by Johan Cartigny, 'Cheikh Al Alawi. Documents et temoignages.' Listed in the Univ of Michigan catalog with ISBN 0290529021, which is invalid. Now marked as 'No ISBN available'.

Ajahn Sobin S. Namto lists a book called 'Insight meditation: practical steps to ultimate truth'. The WP editor who created the page says ISBN 947-8357-85-6 is printed in the book, which is invalid. Now marked as 'No ISBN available'. Comment left in Talk page.

Rose: A color of darkness, by Amon Liner. Published with the invalid ISBN 0-932112-09-2 printed in the book. Since then it has been re-issued with a valid ISBN, namely 0-932112-09-9. The WP article has been updated with the new number.

A Google search for the phrase 'Cancelled ISBN' also comes up with this hit: [38], which cites the book Andrew Wilton, 'Journey through the Alps', with 'cancelled ISBN' 3856347756. This book is found in the LOC but with no ISBN listed.

I had previously surmised that the Library of Congress was actually attempting to track good and bad ISBNs for the same book, using the terminology 'cancelled ISBN', but the records I have kept are not good enough to document any actual cases. Certainly the LOC do not seem to filter out bad ISBNs when you search, and in some cases they still deliver book records under their original bad ISBN, which is something that booksinprint.com and abebooks.com admirably refuse to do. Those libraries and services that overtly flag bad ISBNs are truly the most customer-friendly long-term, because not knowing you have a bad ISBN is just storing up trouble for the future. Unfortunately worldcat.org won't flag a bad ISBN and just tells you the book is not found. You still need to use isbn.org/converterpub.asp in case of doubt. EdJohnston 03:06, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

This is a trivial edit to delay Werdnabot's archiving of the bad ISBNs from your Talk page for a few more days! I suppose I could go ahead and start maintaining my own list of bad ISBNs as a sub-page, or even put it in Wikipedia space. EdJohnston 18:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Most copied to Category talk:Articles with invalid ISBNs . Rich Farmbrough, 12:55 14 December 2006 (GMT).
Thanks for finding a good place for the info! EdJohnston 16:50, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

ISBN page[edit]

Do you mind if I go through your list of duff ISBNs and strike out/delete those which have already been done? I was proposing in the first place to split it into more manageable sections. If you're intending to update it any time soon, would it be better if I waited for you? TIA HAND —Phil | Talk 17:27, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Go for it, but not if it's too much work, the new run will identify bad checksums in the article. Rich Farmbrough, 19:59 14 December 2006 (GMT).

Extra job for Smackbot[edit]

Apropos of the above, I notice that Smackbot has been doing a sterling job formatting ISBNs with proper hyphenation. However, I don't think the poor dear is noticing a rather annoying (and to me rather disturbing) bodge which seems to have sprouted up. There is at least one user who seems to think that  [[Special:Booksources/0441008534|ISBN 0-441-00853-4]]  is better than simply  ISBN 0-441-00853-4 , and Smackbot doesn't seem to notice this. I have checked with Tim Starling who seems to think there is no danger of the magic word ceasing to work any time soon. I was wondering whether Smackbot could be persuaded to remove the annoying extra layer of crud as part of its work? In the meantime, would you be amenable to sharing the AWB specs you are using for the ISBN stuff, which look to be pretty awesome. TIA HAND —Phil | Talk 17:44, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Answered on user talkp page, essentially saying yes. Rich Farmbrough, 13:12 15 December 2006 (GMT).

Delete some bad ISBNs as an experiment?[edit]

Rich, do you think User:Shantavira's suggestion might have some merit? (from [39]). The invalid ISBNs might simply be deleted, with an appropriate comment. We could try that out, for a sample of 20 bad ISBNs from the list, and see if the regular editors are moved to do something reasonable in response? There is a hidden benefit, that bad ISBNs are probably more common in less-used references that may not be all that important in Wikipedia. Of course, data is needed to prove this is wise. What do you think? EdJohnston 22:26, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Commented on the cat talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 09:36 15 December 2006 (GMT).

Bot double insertion of ISBN check template[edit]

See this edit on Overseas Chinese, inserted a {{Please check ISBN}} when one was already there. Thanks cab 00:29, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll need to smarten this up a bit. Rich Farmbrough, 09:35 15 December 2006 (GMT).

A couple of ISBNs which appear to be valid[edit]

SmackBot has tagged a couple of ISBN's in articles on my watchlist in the last few hours which appear to be valid. See Robert Muldoon and Moeraki. I can find these books in the National Library of New Zealand (via Special:Booksources) and in other New Zealand libraries using this ISBN. Is it possible that not all ISBN's adhere to the checksum rules that SmackBot is using?-gadfium 00:52, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

SmackBot edit of Flow-based programming (FBP)[edit]

FBP has (had) 4 sections all referring to other technologies which all have articles in Wikipedia, e.g. Jackson Structured Programming (JSP). I had titled each section with an article reference. SmackBot removed the square brackets, so now I have to change the wording a bit to work the article references back in, e.g. change "This methodology" to "The Jackson Structured Programming methodology". a) This seems unnecessary, although I don't mind doing it if it is really necessary, but b) People don't really like me making changes to this article as I am the inventor, so there is a risk of WP:COI, etc. Do you have recommendations? Thanks. Jpaulm 03:18, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

The reason you should avoid links in headers is that it creates problems linking to sections e.g. Flow-based programming#concepts. However I have reverted that particular change. Rich Farmbrough, 08:06 15 December 2006 (GMT).
The best way is probably to use the {{main}} template instead of putting links in the section header: see Flow-based programming now. HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 09:01, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Or possibly {{details}} Rich Farmbrough, 09:55 15 December 2006 (GMT).

Thanks, everyone! That's very pretty! I wasn't aware of the {{main}} template. Thanks for your help! Jpaulm 15:11, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

technical request[edit]

Rich—Thanks for your support on this matter, which means a lot from someone who's way up there in that list of who's done the most edits. I agree with your concerns about date-ranges and the blessed comma, but let's see if we can KISS (keep it simple, stupid) for the moment. We may be in a better possition to lobby for further changes subsequently. Smile.png Tony 03:37, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Yep, more than happy with that. Rich Farmbrough, 13:11 15 December 2006 (GMT).

SmackBot edit to quadratic programming[edit]

A recent edit by SmackBot was just to insert a single space between the interwiki language links and a stub tag (and nothing else). If you can, please change the bot's behavior so that it doesn't make such trivial edits. Thanks, Lunch 02:47, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, this shouldn't have happened, and I will try not to let it happen again. Rich Farmbrough, 08:24 15 December 2006 (GMT).

Okey dokey. No problem. Lunch 16:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Mergeinto broken by your bot[edit]

This edit to One-form broke a mergeinto tag. -- David Woolley 17:23, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, it's likely this was manually assisted mistyping. Rich Farmbrough, 10:09 16 December 2006 (GMT).

Fundamental Analysis[edit]

All the ratios you put in the discussion page at fundamental analysis are all at financial ratios. There is a link on the page already Retail Investor 02:32, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I noticed there were some ratios, but the reason I put the info there was that the place I moved it from was redirected there, with the old article left in place. Generally this represents an unfinished merge, and it is important under GFDL to attribute work. If this wasn't merged into the FA article, and is of no use elsewhere (unless it was copied there) then remove it from the talk page by all means. Rich Farmbrough, 10:09 16 December 2006 (GMT).

ISBN[edit]

Hi, According to Amazon.co.uk it is 0-7110-2521-5. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Portrait-Cheshire-Lines-Committee-Dyckhoff/dp/0711025215 Rgds, Rich Farmbrough, 15:22 16 December 2006 (GMT).

Rich. I've checked again. Either Amazon are wrong (could it be?) or it is a misprint in the book. Best wishes. Peter I. Vardy 15:26, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
Hi Peter, very occaisionally the book has the wrong number on it. See Category talk:Articles with invalid ISBNs. this wuld appear to be one of those. Rich Farmbrough, 17:57 16 December 2006 (GMT).
Rich. You're right again! Fascinating. I'm pretty new to Wikipedia and learn a lot every day. Happy Christmas. Peter I. Vardy 22:58, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

ISBN formatting use[edit]

Hi Rich Farmbrough. I often come across articles with an edit by your trusty bot which reformats ISBNs, for example, from 0871141027 to 0-87114-102-7:

SmackBot (Talk | contribs) (ISBN formatting/gen fixes using AWB)

It appears to make little difference to the WikiMedia magic ISBN keyword. Is there value in reformatting the number? — EncMstr 20:06, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

ISBNs should be thirteen characters long until the end of 2006 - according to the standard: nine digits, three dashes or spaces and one check digit than can be a digit or X. However wiki magic that makes ISBNs linkable will not work with spaces so we have to use the dash or close the characters up. Therefore I remove ":"s between the "ISBN" and the "number", and hyphenate the ISBN according to the rules published by the International ISBN Agency[40]. This means
  1. Wikimagic will now work
  2. The ISBN is correctly formatted
  3. language area and publisher can be told from the ISBN together with other hints.
At the same time I flag any invalid ISBNs, there are currently over 1600 articles in this category. Rich Farmbrough, 20:30 16 December 2006 (GMT).
You mean *ten* characters long, right? EdJohnston 03:52, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
No, I'm counting the seperators... Rich Farmbrough, 10:56 18 December 2006 (GMT).

where does smackbot get its dash(es)?[edit]

i notice i've been wasting your bot's time when i can't find the fully formated isbns, that is dashed into language publisher etc. i add them when i can, but often i have to use a library cat that leaves them out. how does smackbot find the full isbns? (can check here for reply)   bsnowball  11:28, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

The rules can be found here: http://www.isbn-international.org/en/identifiers/List-of-Ranges.pdf. But it's fine to leave it for the bot to fix as well. Rgds, Rich Farmbrough, 12:27 17 December 2006 (GMT).

Cathedrals[edit]

Thank you for leaving messages re inadequate ISBNs. I've fixed the problems.

--Amandajm 11:50, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Excellent! Rich Farmbrough, 12:29 17 December 2006 (GMT).

Smackbot makes typos?[edit]

I was quite entertained by this. Smackbot tried to leave a template on a page, but typo'd the template name: diff. I have fixed this one, but I hope it isn't making more.. Telsa (talk) 20:51, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Luckily that was the only one. Probably me typing. Thanks for letting me know. Rich Farmbrough, 22:46 17 December 2006 (GMT).

slamming the lack of botbrain[edit]

hey Rich - I hope you know I didn't mean you when I called your bot "brainless" (John Lennon edit summary). I was just being grumpy, because it removed some wikilinks ffrom a heading that I had been trying to preserve. But apparently links in headers are frowned on, and if it isn't your bot it'll be some other bot, so I gave up and incorporated the link into the text which, I have to admit, is probably better anyway. I am sure you have a brain. It's the bot's that I was questioning. (Hey, I'm happier if bots don't have brains - that's entirely too scary to contemplate.) No offense taken, I hope, because none was meant. Tvoz 03:46, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

No problem. Rich Farmbrough, 09:51 18 December 2006 (GMT).

New form for ISBNs?[edit]

I've noticed that SmackBot is changing the way the Isbns are listed. Is there a new form? The Isbns I have included in articles are (I thought) properly formatted (see diffs here: [41]

just curious and thanks. Jeffpw 09:37, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Jeff, the hyphens in ISBNs are not in a fixed pattern, but vary according to the way greater or smaller parts of the range are assigned to different publishers, and indeed different "lanuguage areas". See the ISBN article for more deatils or http://www.isbn-international.org/en/identifiers/List-of-Ranges.pdf for the full hyphenation rules. Rgds, Rich Farmbrough, 09:57 18 December 2006 (GMT).

Smack Bot[edit]

Hi - I'm trying to work how you write a bot. Would you give me the code for the above bot so I can fiddle? What language is it written in? Triangle e 11:53, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

The software I use is WP:AWB in C# - source and executables on sourcefourge. Some of the XML configuration files I wrote are available at Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Settings in regular expressions. Other frameworks available include pywikipedia in Python, and various bots published in perl. See also Wikipedia:Creating_a_bot and WP:BOT. Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 12:05 18 December 2006 (GMT).

Blocking SharedIPEDUs[edit]

Please use {{schoolblock}} as your reason for blocking school IPs. Do not use "repeated vandalism" as your reason since it only confounds other users on the same IP address and we get a lot of complaints sent to unblock-en-l from confused staff members. I'd appreciate it if you'd undo all your recent blocks and fix the block reason. Thanks. --  Netsnipe  ►  14:30, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

You could also take the effort to spellcheck your messages if you're not going to use standard blocking templates such as {{test5}} {{test7}} and {{anonblock}}. This example comes across as a bit unprofessional. --  Netsnipe  ►  14:37, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, I hadn't seen anonblock before - I was going to make one, or have standard way of inserting the message. The only problem with anonblock is that it says "currently" disabled - this will become out of date. Rich Farmbrough, 15:44 18 December 2006 (GMT).

using new nobots template but not opt-in - acceptable?[edit]

Thank you for your comments during PocKleanBot's recent bot RFA. I'm (manually! no spamming! :-P ) contacting the bot operators and admins who commented on the bot's RFA to find out what their position would be to running the bot obeying the new nobots template but not using opt-in. Would this be acceptable to you or not? I think the nobots template is a great idea and I wish it had been introduced years ago and was more widespread. The only problem I can see running the bot this way is that there's going to be a whole lot of people out there who haven't heard of the nobots template and a few of those more violently opposed to bots adding a message to their tlak page will doubtless get irate just like last time. I would be interested in hearing your comments. - PocklingtonDan 15:25, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

User:Pco[edit]

OK, she's withdrawn her legal threat, or says she has; wanna unblock her? (I generally don't reverse another admin's actions without consulting.) --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 18:18, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Already done by Jossi, message left last night. Rich Farmbrough, 09:19 19 December 2006 (GMT).

Thanks[edit]

Thanks, Rich! In terms of who else has been fixing the ISBNs, JesseW comes to mind. He also created the useful Template:OCLC, and has recommended worldcat use. Ekotkie has been helping recently, even after we jumped on him for his first ISBN correction. RainbowCrane started helping in late August after your previous ISBN run and did quite a few, but he's not edited since 19 Oct and I'm afraid he may have left WP. Kevin Breitenstein did a lot of ISBN fixes. I may have overlooked other people who also helped. EdJohnston 02:52, 19 December 2006 (UTC)


Likewise; thanks for noticing Rich.! John Vandenberg 03:30, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Signpost updated for December 18th.[edit]

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You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot 06:22, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

SmackBot[edit]

In one of its ISBN checking sweeps, I see smackbot is putting isbn followed by the corrected number. In some cases where the isbn is in a template this leads repetition of the word isbn, see for example [42]. (It might be easier to fix the template, let me know ;))Tim! 08:14, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

It would be preferable to change the templates, as it would create consistencey both with normal text and most other templates. I already differentiate between Isbn= and isbn=, which is not ideal - these are all traps for future editors. Will you change the template? Incidentally ISBN magic won't accept spaces (although they are valid delimiters - you can see the reason). Rich Farmbrough, 09:31 19 December 2006 (GMT).
OK the developers have made a liar of me, ISBN will accept spaces now, I think this will cause "breakage" due to run on (ISBN 1 123 123141 17/12/2006 for example) but is theoretically good. Rich Farmbrough, 09:34 19 December 2006 (GMT).

About the end of summer[edit]

I did some book articles, and the Template:Cite book(edit talk links history) was finicky about taking the dashes (as in wouldn't at all), not to mention the new ISBN13 instead of the soon to be done away with ISBN10. About then, the system software was supposed to start accepting the ISBN13's. Is this an additional update? Are you aware of this template and do you know whether the sub-template for the ISBN within is now taking what I see your talk is filled with comments and questions about. (I ran across an answer you gave here which raised the question.) Thanks -- I'm playing catch up-- had some RL crunch time. // FrankB 08:20, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Cordell, Bruce R.; Jeff Grubb, David Yu (September 2001). Manual of the Planes. Wizards of the Coast. ISBN 798-0-7869-1850-8. 

looks ok? Rich Farmbrough, 10:12 19 December 2006 (GMT).

  • Yeah, thanks-- I jes knew it wasn't ca. end of summer. Pardon the Brain fart. Up too late I guess--I could and should have just tested it myself. // FrankB 15:33, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
    • OH MY! LOL Me thimnks me D&D library is a bit dated--imagine that, being 25+ years old. The sad part, I didn't even see a title I recognize in the template
         ~;-(
          Wonder what I can get on ebay taking bids. Nawh! Be worth even more in another 25! // FrankB 15:43, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
      • People are collecting now - not so much the mainstream stuff, but 1st ed Deities, original, and some other stuff. I recently sold my diplomacy and chat magazines. Rich Farmbrough, 19:00 19 December 2006 (GMT).

Marfan Syndrome Article Graffiti Attacks[edit]

I have reviewed the history of changes on the Marfan Syndrome article over the past few weeks and have noticed an occasional graffito is written into the article. The vandals perpetrating these attacks usually do it without logging in, thus leaving no contributor trace. I recommend that whenever any of the responsibly acting contributors log in to do some more editing, first look at the most recent edit. If it is an anonymous edit, just revert the article to the previous edit before doing more edits. Leeirons 13:41, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Curious[edit]

Hi Rich, Everytime I feel like I'm making headway on ISBN's, more errors show up....((Sigh)) I have been running across a statement "Calculated check digit (X) doesn't match" In a couple cases, when I find the title and ISBN, they are in agreement with what is already there. My sources are Abebooks. Many times I will plug the ISBN into the "search for" and it will error out but I have had some that don't. This gets a bit time consuming with a number of windows opened up. For the most part if the number checks out I cancel the template and press on. That has only happened 3-4 times. I normally can spot the error. Thoughts?? I am tempted to set those aside. I have also found a couple titles that listed 13 digit ISBN's. I have loaded them in lieu of the 10. I don't know who else may be doing this but I don't want to get cross-wise with a process or future step. Any problems with this??Ekotkie 00:49, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I moved this from your userpage, I figured it was left there by mistake. Cheers KOS | talk 20:03, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks Kos Rich Farmbrough, 23:26 19 December 2006 (GMT).
And my thanks also. I think I was drinking too much coffee and the word "discussion" didn't looked like "User talk". Rich, I can assure you that I only remove templates on those ISBN's that I have corrected. If I can't fix it/find it, I leave it. I was just remarking to myself the other days about how I couldn't seem to get out of the "A's".....haha Abebooks has even been good about finding some of the foreign ones. Some care must be taken since some titles do not appear there exactly as someone has put on a Wiki page. Thanks to many page creators who do leave a good trail of data. It has aided me to a great degree to ensure I am posting even the right version of a book. Rich, the award you have bestowed was way too kind. You need to give one to your Bot. And kindly ask the Bot to slow down a tad......Ekotkie 01:34, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

isbn-check .de support for ISBN-13 is imminent[edit]

See Tomas Schild's comment EdJohnston 00:39, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

425 Greatest Books of All Time[edit]

As requested by Smackbot, notability has been added. Can template now be removed? Thanks. Pepso 11:50, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, of course. But SmackBot doesn't add the tags, merely dates them. MakeRocketGoNow added the tag. Rich Farmbrough, 14:55 20 December 2006 (GMT).

Cleanup[edit]

I assume that this robot tagging has to do with eo

To me was truncated. However I can perhaps partially reply: my bot is not generally tagging articles it is mainly dating existing tags to help with the cleanup effort. If that doesn't answer your partly asked question, please drop the rest of the question off at may talk page. Rich Farmbrough, 11:01 20 December 2006 (GMT).
Briefly, it's not clear to me what, if anything, needs to be cleaned up in Nomina Anatomica. Btarski 19:57, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Jack Hobbs article ISBN[edit]

The bot has flagged an ISBN in a reference in this article as invalid because it only has 9 digits. I took the ISBN from the publication data page of the book, which was published in the UK in 1969. Now it may not be an ISBN at all, as it didn't say that it was, but it certainly looked like one. I see that ISBNs had only begun to be used in the UK a couple of years before, so is it possible that they had not yet acquired the current format? One possiblity is that simply inserting a zero at the start of the number would make it valid, but doing this would be a guess on my part. It might be better simply to delete it. Any thoughts? Thanks. JH 10:46, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

You are right in every important respect. I have added the 0 and removed the tag. It is safe to do this for UK and some US books between about 1968 and 1972, I think. You can test on http://www.isbn-check .com/, or usually find the book on Amazon, Abebooks, Libray of Congress etc. by clicking on the ISBN. Best wishes, Rich Farmbrough, 11:09 20 December 2006 (GMT).
Thsnks for your help. JH 18:09, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Arthur M Young[edit]

Hi Rich. Strange one. The above was noted for ISBN correction.(understatement, it had 7 ISBN errors) The bot picked on one title, "The Bell Notes", BUT the page author listed three ISBN's for this entry based on reprints. The bot did not select which one was bad. I have only found one of the references in a correct condition. I can re-write that book reference to reflect the correct entry that I found but kind of hate to do that since only one of three is in error. I can only assume that the page author wanted to give as much reference data as possible. I have noticed that the bot does not always list the faulty ISBN in the template. This info is handy as I can compare the new data against a version of the bad data and see if it was merely an issue of a leading or trailing number that got dropped. In cases where it is not given I typically drop my new data into a blank spot so I can compare.(extra steps) Sometimes there is a radical difference between the bad ISBN and the new data I have found. Correctness, of course, is the order of the day.

Is there some way to indicate when a reviewer has looked at an entry and been unable to resolve a solution. I have no idea how many people are looking at the incorrect ISBN listings. It seems like many could be plowing over the same ground. Have a great dayEkotkie 19:15, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Another example. Arthur Rostron. There is a book listed by author Walter Lord. The book came out in 1955 yet it has an ISBN. Oh, there are reprints of this book that do have ISBN's but the date shouldn't be 1955. EdJohnson recommended using the latest data and I tend to agree but shouldn't that decision come from the page originator? If we follow that idea, we must be assured that a reviewer does, in fact, change/add the date used. There may be something in the 1955 book that didn't get carried through to one that does have an ISBN. Maybe not. I have spent extra time trying to match up dates (where given) with the actual book. Maybe, we should just give the ISBN and also list the associated date.
Rich, the comment location I was hoping for was to put it on the page of CAT INVALID right next to the page title. I don't see how to access that data and am not sure of an appropriate code to put in that area. Putting it in the template will still waste time for folks.Ekotkie 03:12, 21 December 2006 (UTC)Oops...I was logged offEkotkie 03:12, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

It's hard to give a general answer, but A Night to Remember is a popular book that must have sold 50 zillion copies. Also the two articles involved don't have any page references into the book, so it's unlikely they would care if you replace the old ISBN with the number of a current edition. If it was a rare scholarly book, perhaps it would make a difference. EdJohnston 04:32, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

CAT:INVALID[edit]

Due to overwhelming popular demand, there is now a shortcut: CAT:INVALID -> Category:Articles with invalid ISBNs. Of course you can type 'cat:invalid' for convenience. Since so many people are fixing ISBNs now, they'll want this :-). EdJohnston 19:23, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Mea culpa...[edit]

...and many thanks for the tip! Robertissimo 11:06, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Reference/s[edit]

Re.above plural. Thanks for reassuring me that it was contentious, sometime. I created the page only recently (my first) and did read it on a help page somewhere, not MoS, as you rightly point out. Is there somewhere to advise of inconsistency (yet another) in ref/cite/footnote help pages. Or have I just done so!? Note; to my mind singular is correct and latter 'accepted error' but not worried about it. Do hope citing is improved on wiki, I wasted a lot of time chasing my tail on help pages Best wishes for season Fred.e 16:16, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

ISBN - What are you talking about???[edit]

  ISBN
  Hi, the first ISBN in the "works" section seems invalid. Are you able to check it? Rich
  Farmbrough 19:02 20 December 2006 (UTC).
  • I have no idea what ARTICLE you are talking about? Can you be more specific? --Ludvikus 20:22, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Corrected as follows:

   * Ovladenie vremenem
   [ed.] Michael Hagemeister
   (Munchen: O. Sager, 1983)
   ISBN 3-87690-231-2  (& not ISBN 3-87690-232-1)

Yours truly, --Ludvikus 22:09, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Benito Mussolini[edit]

I've had a look at the April suggestion that this was a copyvio, and it seems to be true. Can we pass belated thanks back to the person who spotted this? Rich Farmbrough, 19:08 21 December 2006 (GMT).

Oh boy, that's crazy. I'll see what I can do. I'm not a OTRS person now, so I'll have to contact someone else to do it. -- Zanimum 21:05, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

ISBN Lyman School for Boys[edit]

I note that your BOT keeps changing the format of ISBN numbers for some unknown reason, leaving them in an inconsistent state. Could you please tell me what you think the "Correct" format of an ISBN is? Here is an example:
^ a b Miller, Jerome G. (1991). Last One Over the Wall. Ohio State University Press. ISBN 0-8142-0758-8.
^ a b c d e Johnson, Richard B. (2006). Abominable Firebug. iUniverse. ISBN 0-595-38667-9.

They used to be

0-8142-0758-8
0-5953-8667-0
n-nnnn-nnnn-n

Thanks ---LymanSchool 13:19, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

If I may interject, you seem to have the mistaken impression that the number of digits between hyphens should be fixed. That is not how the standard works, and for a good reason. A major publisher will need many more numbers for its books than a small publisher. Also, there are more small publishers than large ones. If the standard assigned equal ranges to each, it wouldn't work. So, the publisher with number 595 is a moderately large publisher, and gets a block of 5-digit numbers to distinguish their books; and the publisher with number 8142 is a moderately small publisher, and gets a block of 4-digit numbers. But wait, there's more. That leading "0" indicates an English-language publication, of which there are an enormous number. More general, we have a country code, with small countries that publish few works having a large code number leaving less room for publisher and item numbers.
Our ISBN article explains a little, and links to an official site that explains in detail. If you want to check the hyphenation, feed the digits to one of the on-line ISBN converters. You will find that "0-5953-8667-0" has an erroneous check digit (the final "0" should be a "9"), and that it should be hypenated as "0-595-38667-9". --KSmrqT 12:51, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Smackbot and uncategorized tag[edit]

Smackbot recently tagged The Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy as being uncategorized. The article, however, was already in a (stub) category. Was this edit intentional? Simões (talk/contribs) 18:29, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi, ideally it should have added {{uncatstub}}. But, yes, it is intentional. Rich Farmbrough, 00:38 23 December 2006 (GMT).

ISBN querie on Guy Middleton Page[edit]

. The ISBN printed on both the cover and the publishing data page of the book is as stated, 0-06-093507-3. I agree that the check digit appears to be 8, but shouldn't the printed number be given? We do not know if the error is in the base number or the check digit. The listing in Amazon gives the same number as in the book.

Excuse me while I jump in here. I just looked at the title and ISBN for this book and I made two minor corrections. In checking the ISBN in Abebooks I found that this is one of thse things that gets updated. Your listed ISBN is against "edition #14 and was put out in 2001" so I added those two points. Were you aware that there is a 2003 edition out (and maybe more)? I think your ISBN is ok.Ekotkie 03:27, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

The copy I have is the 2001 edition, which also gives ISSN of 1066-2712.

DonJay 20:06, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

The problem was actually the other book "The Film Encyclopedia by Ephraim Katz - Published by Collins - ISBN "0-06-074214-0"": Here the ISBN had the check digit from the 13 digit ISBN. I've put the 13 digit one in. Rich Farmbrough, 08:11 23 December 2006 (GMT).

ISBN hyphens[edit]

I noticed that SmackBot put hpyphens into ISBNs on History of rail transport in Great Britain to 1830m which is all well and good. However, I'm intigued as to how they are placed.... four ISBNs were changed from to no hyphens to 0-7153-7603-9, 1-898937-42-7, 0-434-98083-8 and 1-84033-077-5 respectively - four different ways of grouping the digits. Is there any deeper significance to the different ways of grouping? Tompw (talk) 22:38, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Yep, the second group of numbers represents the publisher, the system is designed for smaller publishers to get longer ID's (later in the numeric range - say beginning with 7,8 or 9), there are more of these (because they are allowed to be longer) but correspondingly less actual numbers - which is OK because they'll publish fewer books. See ISBN for more detail. Really big publishers (Penguin, Oxford, Cambridge) have the ids 00 to 19. Rich Farmbrough, 08:15 23 December 2006 (GMT).

Oops[edit]

Hi Rich, I just edited a bunch of "B's" and I wasn't logged in. Sorry.... I have started leaving (cannot find xxxx) statements in the B section. I hope to go back and do the same in the "A's" I finally caught up with that speedy little bot....Ekotkie 03:07, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Bot run[edit]

OK, the run is done. Why don't you consider making a new area of review and start it by moving all the "A's"left on the current invalid file. I have checked and no new "A's" have shown up. I am now into the "B's". Happy holiday Ekotkie 18:42, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh-oh....all of the A's have changed color back to true blue instead of haze blue (If someone has looked at an item) Any idea why that happened? How can we keep track of our progress?
Would you please put the Invalid ISBN Counter on that page just like the one you are using here on your page?Ekotkie 20:17, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Library of Congress can't find the 13 digit ISBNs[edit]

Rich, the Smackbot robot changed the 10 digit ISBNs to 13 digit ISBNs in UK Dispersion Modelling Bureau and in Unit Operations of Chemical Engineering. As a result, one could no longer click on the ISBNs and then look them up in the Library of Congress or other libraries ... whereas one could do that with the 10 digit ISBNs. I don't know how many other articles have had the same change made by the robot. (I reverted the changes made in the above two articles).

That defeats the purpose of including the ISBNs in the book citation template. Please stop the robot from changing to the 13 digit ISBN's until a solution is found to this problem. - mbeychok 18:50, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I'd concur with this - ten digit ISBNs don't become magically obsolete in a week, they just become superceded, but most of the resources will still expect ISBN-10s. Leaving aside the touchy issue of retroactively renumbering sources, this really doesn't seem to give us much practical benefit other than looking modern... Shimgray | talk | 19:00, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I've blocked the bot for now as this conversion seems to be registering multiple complaints. Dragons flight 19:36, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

See also: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#The_Smackbot_robot_is_making_ISBN_changes_that_are_no_good. Dragons flight 20:40, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the barnstar.[edit]

I'm on a hiatus from Wikipedia at the momement, generally due to my belief that we here at WP just have too many edits per second per reviewer, but I am happy about my ISBN/OCLC work, so thanks for the recognition. Your ISBN bot work has been certainly useful, too. JesseW, the juggling janitor 08:00, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Traffic[edit]

Hi, I have an idea to increase traffic to Wikipedia significantly. Many people are now using Wikipedia as a search engine. Wikipedia's searching has a snag which needs some good coding. There are perhaps more than 1 million misspelled searches being made every day... how do i know? I don't, it could be much more than one million, you find out. My idea, which has probably been thought of before is to supply a - Did you mean Such as Such? - by matching misspelled words and terms to their most relevant article. At present this is in place suggestion for terminology sorting based on relevancy, but not for misspellings. Please let me know what you think, and if you could assist with proposing it. Thanks. frummer 00:52, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

no, i think we need to get rid of redirects. There are a few reasons why. About the server load, whose the man to ask on that? About the algorithm, we can talk more about it once we know, there would be a trail period, i think. Another idea is to integrate a dropdown in the search field so as to enable searches in wikicommons, wiktionary etc in two clicks, similar to ie7's. frummer 09:26, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
? frummer 07:43, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Homelessness article and possible promotion again ?[edit]

Hi Rich. Happy Holidays ! I had a question about an addition by an anonymous editor who has posted the material before and it was taken out due to promotional reasons. The user, User: 71.231.50.116 added a section in the Homelessness article on "Ending Homelessness". It might be a promo for the organisation. Thoughts ? The user has been warned already and the material taken out. User talk:71.231.50.116. Best Wishes and Happy Christmas ! --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 19:24, 24 December 2006 (UTC) (talk)

Thanks Rich ! Merry Christmas ! --- (Bob) Wikiklrsc 14:07, 25 December 2006 (UTC) (talk

SmackBot ISBN edits[edit]

I've seen several cases where SmackBot found errors in ISBN numbers. In the article it leaves a message "please check ISBN ... too short". For the edit summary, it leaves "ISBN formatting/gen fixes using AWB)". If it is leaving a "please check", I think it would be better to leave a more descriptive edit summary, such as "please check ISBN", so a person will know to look at it. (I fixed a few today.) Bubba73 (talk), 23:35, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi, well done fixing ISBNs. Good idea about the edit summary, I will think about it before the next run. Thanks. Rich Farmbrough, 16:05 27 December 2006 (GMT).

ISBNs & 13 digits[edit]

Hi, I see your bot has been making lots of ISBN fixes in pages in my watch list - thanks. Will you be able to automatically change them to the 13 digit versions or do I need to start going through & doing them manually? — Rod talk 21:44, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Rod, yes in principle it can do it. I'm only 90% sure it's a good idea. If you have some articles suitable for testing the principle it would be a good pace to start. Rich Farmbrough, 21:47 21 December 2006 (GMT).
Why might it not be a good idea - presumably all the library catalogues , booksellers etc will be migrating to the 13 digit version?— Rod talk 08:34, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
Well the start date was 1/1/2005 and an awful lot don't seem to have done it yet, with 9 days to go. We could do with a proper survey. I quote myself...
It seems most European libraries are not accepting 13 digits yet. Compare:
Looking at the Karlsruhe the first returns many hists, the second hardly any
does a little better. Rich Farmbrough, 11:31 18 December 2006 (GMT).
Regards, Rich Farmbrough, 09:19 22 December 2006 (GMT).

OK well if none of the other sources are actually implementing it we could probably sensibly leave it for a while - I only asked because I've just sent a new document to the British Library & it had to have the 13 digit ISBN included.— Rod talk 10:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, that's a good sign anyway. I did have a scheme that would have swapped over at midnight - see {{auto isbn}}. Rich Farmbrough, 10:14 22 December 2006 (GMT).
I see you've done one (Robert Dunning) on Charterhouse, Somerset but it doesn't work when you click on the ISBN & go to amazon.co.uk (which I tend to use), for other test on pages I've done many of the refs on you could try Chew Valley or Chew Valley Lake, which are both FA or Chew Stoke, Chew Magna, Kennet and Avon Canal and Mendip Hills which are GA status.— Rod talk 12:50, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes, you're right, all the Amazon's fail, Barnes and Noble, Alibris and Abebooks all work. It's very patchy, and many people seem to be waiting to the last minute. (It's also hard to find a good ISBN for testing - anything popular enough to be world-wide seems to be publishe in many languages/fromats.) I've emailed Amazon. It may be possible (but silly in a way) to re-write book sources to coerce 13 digit ISBNs back to 10, if the right parser functions have been introduced. Anyway, I have done a few hundred articles to seed the collective conciousness, I may just let it trickle away (there are 84,000 ISBNy articles). Rich Farmbrough, 13:48 23 December 2006 (GMT).
Having had some time to think about this more, I'm considering using multiple ISBNs. By providing a 10-digit number we can allow easy entry and verification against what is printed in older books. By providing a 13-digit number we support the new standard. Better still, we support books that have both a hardcover and a softcover edition; these have distinct ISBNs. It's a little cumbersome, but maybe it's worth it. --KSmrqT 12:58, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
On the Chew Valley artcile I've tested "Ekwall, Eilert (1928). English River-Names. Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0-19-869119-8" & it fails on both Amazon & Barnes & Noble. The one I had to send to the BL had a different final digit in the 13 digit version as well as the initial 3 added ie 1-86043-399-5 becomes 978-1-86043-399-3 this may be complicating the additions?— Rod talk 14:18, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I had heard that a new 13-digit ISBN numbers were being introduced, and it's nice that Amazon now supports this new format, but is it really necessary for us to convert all of our existing references that have 10-digit ISBN numbers to 13-digit codes? None of the books I own have 13-digit ISBN numbers, so I'm in favor of leaving those references the way they are. You don't really expect us to convert all of the 10-digit codes, do you? If so, checking for mistakes is going to become that much more tedious. In my opinion, it would be better to do something else, like simply changing the labels for the old codes from "ISBN" to "ISBN-10" instead. --Jwinius 21:15, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

I hope you have consulted widely about this. Old ISBN contain errors and you risk introducing new ones, severing references to obscure citations, that may remain unnoticed. If your advice from librarians (not singular), reseachers, booksellers, et al condones your approach, I will say no more. Your chastising categorising could do with improvement too. Do you focus on what you like, not what you hate on Wikipaedia? A new user, Fred 14:44, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

User:SmackBot edits[edit]

Hello Rich! Great bot you're running, but I noticed SmackBot making a couple minor errors [43], [44]. See here for a few more. Hope you can figure out what went wrong! Cheers, Dar-Ape 16:32, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, fixed. Rich Farmbrough, 16:36 26 December 2006 (GMT).

Reference[edit]

Dear Mr Farmborough, Can you please give an explanation to:

... appropriate MoS. I come down on the plural, while I am against computers making number mistakes in onter contrexts, I prefer the consistancy. I also run ...

if there is one. Should I check my 'References library'? Toodles, Fred 16:44, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

SmackBot edit summaries[edit]

I was looking through the edit history of an article, and noticed that there's an error in the edit summary: Replace deprecated tmeplate using AWB. As you can proably see by now, template is spelled wrong in the edit summary. Can this be fixed? --GVOLTT 06:41, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Signpost updated for December 26th.[edit]

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Reference and ISBN[edit]

No doubt you are working your way through after your wikibreak, thanks for quick reply. I will sleep on all this, but the end user, the reader, reads the first category of the 'better than start' article as containing wrong information. And it does not. See the LISWA site previously forwarded.

But you are attempting to communicate with editors, I presume, in effect, 'There is a mistake here.' Otherwise you would simply remove it. Please remove cat if you haven't already. George Temple-Poole Fred 15:47, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Fred, I've fixed the ISBN in George Temple-Poole . Rgds, Rich Farmbrough, 15:00 28 December 2006 (GMT).

Thakur Sher Singh Parmar[edit]

I appreciate your intelligent hardwork n sincerity.No one can doubt your intentions , yet I must say you are unnecessarily making edits and unnecessarily making unrequired comments on Thakur Sher Singh Parmar page.Stop it, please. Amita karpe 14:44, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Hello, as far as I knoww I havenever commented on Thakur Sher Singh Parmar, although my WP:BOT did date the cleanup tags that were on it. Rich Farmbrough, 14:58 28 December 2006 (GMT).

P.S. I would suggest you choose a username and stick to it. RF.

History of Pakistan[edit]

This page has been blocked due to edit war by Indian contributors rewriting Pakistani history from Indian perspective. It has been blocked for too long. I would like to request that this page be unblocked. Siddiqui 17:12, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks.
Siddiqui 18:11, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

ISBN messes[edit]

Could you lend an answer to my question on this talk page Wikipedia_talk:List_of_pages_with_Invalid_ISBNs and/or clarify the reason why we have both a list and an category of invalid ISBNs? I've spent a fair amount of time recently cleaning up some ISBNs, and intend to do more as I'm able. I just don't want to do it 'wrong.' Thanks! Keesiewonder 20:43, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

  • Excellent; it is not a trouble for me to remove them once I fix them. Perhaps you can also weigh in on my issue here: Talk:Zeynelabidin_Zinar. I'd like to just replace the ISBN with the OCLC, but would appreciate a second opinion. Thanks! Keesiewonder 21:09, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi, hope you don't mind but I fixed a few of the identified ISBNs by looking them up at the National Library of Australia catalogue, and one at the equivalent Finnish catalogue. Usually it was one digit mistranscribed, or two transposed, that was causing the problem. Orderinchaos78 21:05, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your recent ISBN fixes. Your repaired versions looked OK to me. EdJohnston 22:15, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Tantiusques[edit]

Noting you made some minor edits to my Tantiusques article got me thinking about what a largely unnoticed and thankless task those sorts of edits are. Converting to metric, and vice versa, is a task I admit I've usually shirked. Therefore, this is a note to say "thanks". Happy New Year. HouseOfScandal 21:22, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

don't take it to heart[edit]

Don't take it to heart.I was merely trying to cross check if the mail system works or not by writing to you.I 'm convinced it works ,as I received reply from you.I did not mean it seriously.I had picked up your address randomly, as it didn't look indian.Rest assured I am sticking to my chosen identity.