User talk:Muwahid

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Islam sites

Hello, I see you adding sites to various Islam pages... and, well, you need to talk about them individually on those articles' talk pages. Firstly that is not typically how we do references... they are normally footnotes. Secondly wikipedia runs a lot more smoothly if we don't just have people arbitrarily doing things. If you talk about it then maybe you will strike compromise instead of thinking you can always get your way. If you need anything see my talk page. gren グレン 20:56, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for the reply. I haven't seen any of this discussion (I had two books read for class. I can't look at it now since I have class in not very long. Also, it is helpful if you sign your talk page posts with ~~~~ since it lets me see that you posted it and at what time. I will try to look into this more... if you want to tell me what pages you think it should be linked to I can check their discussion pages. It will probably be accepted or rejected on a page by page basis (I also would need to read the contents of the site). Thanks. gren グレン 21:05, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I will give you my advice in terms of this example of your edit. You added "This verse is often misunderstood to be misogynist, however, several Muslim writers have refuted this misconceptions on this verse. [1]". There are a few things wrong with that. Muslim writers have contested the meaning, not refuted it. Some Muslims believe they have the right to hit. We as an encyclopedia must acknowledge that some Muslims believe that and you must take it into account. Also, it is better to be clear. I recommend something like "Dr. Ahmad Shafaat, a (Shia/Sunni/Salafi/Submitters or liberal) Muslim scholar graduate of (XXX school or whatever give him his authority and shows he's not just some guy writing online) has debated this claim in (XXX way, or whatever way he has debated it but very briefly).¹. The footnote part is very important. you will add that and it will link to a footnote with the website linked which will show his view in full and a brief bibliographic entry... you could do some minor annotations to the bibligraphy if you wanted. You must make sure that this is not a complete minority view (I didn't read the whole thing to know) and if you can find someone more notable with the same view that is always preferred. This is my recommendation... if you have any questions ask just ask and I'll try to clarify. gren グレン 00:41, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

My guidelines for how to cite that were just an example... if he doesn't call himself any Muslim sect then that is fine, it was just an example on how to better clarify things. I do agree with you that some editors (as you mentioned) do prefer to say disparaging things because of their own bias... and, well, that is a problem we are trying to deal with. I still don't think you can use "refuted" firstly, writing from "all" perspectives as you say is talking about more than a billion -- of course, many of them are similar or fall in basic schools of thought... but, to say refuted is mathematical. There are proofs to refute that 1+1=3 no doubt. Also, as you say the he takes Muslim views.... and, I don't believe many Muslims claim to by misogynist. It will be people not too fond of Muslim teachings that say the Qur'an teaches misogynist. This is all inductive logic, not deductive. Refutation is deductive. You can probably honestly say that "most Muslims agree" but you cannot say refute. It is truly unencyclopedic and not neutral as we must be. I understand your point of view but it cannot be put that way. I have written a little thing... it's not so great... but, it displays a lot more neutrality and may stop the reverting wars from both sides. gren グレン 07:47, 10 August 2005 (UTC)