User talk:Wetman

User:Wetman

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This grackle has spotted you and is very pleased with your work! For having a thought provoking user page, filled with valuable instructions and examples that obviously show in the quality of your edits, I award you this Great-tailed Grackle! --User:Unfocused, 27 September 2005

To the most helpful, prolific and competent wikipedian I've met during my two years in the project. Presented by Ghirla ^-трёп- 17:51, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

		The Epic Barnstar
		For tireless vandalism reverts and all-around improvements to classical-themed articles, I hereby award Wetman the epic barnstar Erik the Red 2 (AVE·CAESAR) 01:47, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

The 100 DYK Medal for Wetman Thanks for your first hundred. Keep up the good work. With 50K plus edits then we need a few more for DYK, however we have over 100 articles so far. Thanks again Victuallers (talk) 21:43, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

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This user is one of the 400 most active Wikipedians.

CURRENT & NEW TALK

Online Ambassadors

I saw the quality of your contributions at DYK and clicked on over to your user page and was pretty impressed. Would you be interested in helping with the WP:Online_Ambassadors program? It's really a great opportunity to help university students become Wikipedia contributers. I hope you apply to become an ambassador, Sadads (talk) 16:12, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Your confidence inspires me. I've now applied.--Wetman (talk) 21:55, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Very good, we are reviewing the application now Sadads (talk) 00:06, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Baiae

Am I missing something? I was pretty sure this is a copyright violation. Nev1 (talk) 12:37, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

My error. I hadn't detected the copyright violation.-Wetman (talk) 04:11, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Burlesque (genre)

Hi. I see that you were the original person who created the article on Victorian theatrical burlesque [Burlesque (genre)], as distinguished from modern striptease burlesque. I see that someone has now merged the Burlesque (genre) article into Burlesque. See this. I missed that there had been a merge proposal, but I disagree with this merge. Here is what Burlesque (genre) looked like before the merge. Would you kindly look into this and comment here? Thanks for taking a look and commenting either way. All the best! -- Ssilvers (talk) 23:46, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

If the combined article drops no text or illustrations and incorporates added text examining the extension of "burlesque" to include its modern connotations, that would be a genuinely encyclopedic treatment.--Wetman (talk) 04:11, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia Ambassador Program Newsletter: 28 January 2011

The newsletter of the Wikipedia Ambassador Program – Volume 1, 28 January 2011 This is the first issue of the Wikipedia Ambassador Program newsletter. Please read it! It has important information about the the current wave of classes, instructions and advice, and other news about the ambassador program. Classes get active, students requesting mentors First mentor responsibilities Other news Things you can do

Delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 00:35, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Il Guerrin Meschino

Hello! Your submission of Il Guerrin Meschino at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Schwede66 04:46, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I thought they were being a little childish about what "reviewing" is, but I have left a further note about the hook, which doesn't appear to be cited. You may like to look at it and comment. Moonraker2 (talk) 05:36, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Humanist minuscule

Happy to oblige (and to have an excuse to dig out my calligraphy books). - PKM (talk) 04:11, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Il Guerrin Meschino

—HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 00:01, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Karkadann

Almost exactly five years ago you commented on the lamentable state of this article. Good things come to those who wait! Drmies (talk) 20:27, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Bravo, Drmies! Worth the wait. Wikipedia's quality has risen far in the last five years.--Wetman (talk) 20:47, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks in no small part to you. I should throw a barnstar your way, but it would get last between all those DYK medals. Hey, I'm actually catching up with you! (That is, I can see your taillight way up ahead.) Thanks for the compliment, and keep the quality articles coming. Drmies (talk) 20:52, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Article

Hello! Your submission of Olea oleaster at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Drmies (talk) 04:00, 9 February 2011 (UTC) Drmies (talk) 04:00, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Re: Egyptian temple

I'm glad you like the article. As for why the article wasn't created until now—well, most of the ancient Egypt section is crummy. A few years ago, before I joined the wikiproject, a few people did excellent work on Ancient Egypt and some of the New Kingdom pharaohs, but those people seem to be busy with real life now. Even when they were highly active here, they didn't work much in the area of religion. Ancient Egyptian religion is my primary interest on Wikipedia, and the absence of a temple article was the most glaring deficiency, so as soon as I could put together a decent article, I did. A. Parrot (talk) 07:18, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Well, it sets a standard.--Wetman (talk) 07:27, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, that's a really fine article. Johnbod (talk) 11:51, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Il Guerrin Meschino

I had a go at it. I have found a limited online text of Cursietti's edition here. Moonraker2 (talk) 10:36, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I couldn't open it. Thanks .--Wetman (talk) 10:46, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

All Saints Church, Little Wenham

Thanks for your comment on the DYK suggestions page. I too thought that it was Grade II* listed until I looked more carefully at the Heritage gateway page. At the top it says "Grade II*", and a little lower it says "GVII*". But still lower it says "The entry shall be amended to read:-" and lower again "GVI". In addition Grade I listed buildings in Babergh (where it uses its alternative dedication (maybe incorrectly) to St Lawrence) includes it as Grade I listed. I decided that the evidence is in favour of its grading having been raised from Grade II* to Grade I and have reverted your edit. Cheers. --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 10:51, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

That should be good enough for me, but the reference you've given, at the Wikipedia-originated list of Grade I listed buildings in Babergh, also gives Grade II* for this church; the list is as of 2001: here it is. Perhaps the change in listing is relevant to the article. Let me copy this to Talk:All Saints Church, Little Wenham#Listing. --Wetman (talk) 11:19, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

I know; it's based on the Images of England site, as you say, which was created as of 2001 and has not been (and will not be) updated. Which is why I and other editors writing on heritage in England use the Heritage Gateway site, which does seem to be updated. The problem with including the upgrading in the article is that I do not have a good-enough reference to confirm this; I have just made a conclusion from what I take to be a reliable source. (also copied) --Peter I. Vardy (talk) 11:29, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

That's surely good enough, I agree.--Wetman (talk) 11:50, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Olea oleaster

Orlady (talk) 00:04, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Humanist minuscule

Orlady (talk) 06:03, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia Ambassador Program Newsletter: 13 February 2011

The newsletter of the Wikipedia Ambassador Program – Volume 1, 28 January 2011 This is the second issue of the Wikipedia Ambassador Program Newsletter, with details about what's going on right now and where help is needed. Userboxes and profiles - Add an ambassador userbox to your page, and make sure you've added your mentor profile! Be a coordinating ambassador - Pick and class and make sure no students fall through the cracks. New screencasts - Short videos on watchlists and a number of other topics may be useful to students. Updates from Campus Ambassadors - Ambassadors are starting to report on classroom experiences, both on-wiki and on the Google Group. Other news - There's a new on-wiki application for being an Online Ambassador, and Editing Friday #2 is today! Things you can do - This is just a sample; if you're eager for something to do, there's plenty more.

Delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 18:26, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

Nomination of Bulfinch's Mythology for deletion

The article Bulfinch's Mythology is being discussed concerning whether it is suitable for inclusion as an article according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bulfinch's Mythology until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Sven Manguard Wha? 22:10, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

Nice reference for the Sirens v Muses myth

That was an excellent reference that you found for the Sirens v Muses. I've copied it to the two Lefkai islands -> Souda (island) and Leon (Souda Bay) and to Crete. It looks like they conjured up the myth during the first Byzantine period in Crete to name Aptera and the islands. But why did they think it was necessary to conjure up myths for these islands? (maybe it just made it easier to remember all the names). They did the same for the Agioi Theodoroi (islands) just north of Platania, Crete (a pair of islands that they claim were formed when a monster and its baby approached Crete - they were fended off by the local population). Then Dia (island) (pronounced Ntia by the local population) has the shape of a giant lizard when viewed from Knossos, so they came up with the story that a giant lizard was approaching Crete, and Zeus struck it with lightening whereupon it turned to stone and became the island of Ntia). At least the Muses v Sirens story is original (it's not giant monsters approaching the island). Is it possible that the reference that you found for the Sirens is the primary source? They also claim that the Paximadia islands were the birthplace of Apollo and Artemis probably because Leto was worshipped in Phaistos.  Nipsonanomhmata  ^(Talk) 05:44, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes it's a nice one: who is that Walter Copland Perry, who was writing so sensibly on the Sirens? I'm reading that there was a so-called Mouseion at Aptera and if that's so, I surmise that the seaside site as a competing ground for Muses and Sirens was quite an old idea. My Googletease peek at Maurizio Bettini and Luigi Spina, Il mito delle sirene: immagini e racconti dalla Grecia a oggi (2007) tells me La gara si era svolta nel cosiddetto mouseion, poco distante sia dalla città sia dal mare, un luogo dedicato... That is, the contest took place at the so-called mouseion near the village and the sea. I know nothing of this "so-called" Mouseion at Aptera, which, I see now, is mentioned without details in an article "Bilder aus Kreta" ("Pictures from Crete"), in Unsere zeit: Deutsche revue des Gegenwart 10.2 (1874:59). Btw, I doubt that Aptera has any actual etymological connection with feathers or wings, however; etymologies were just witty playthings for Greeks and Romans.--Wetman (talk) 06:11, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

I've never visited Aptera although I've driven past it. Maybe on another holiday. Just rethinking that the myth must have been generated before the Byzantine Empire because the Byzantine Empire was in to christianity and not pagan gods. If it were only possible to wind back the clock and see how it all happened instead of reading it in books.  Nipsonanomhmata  ^(Talk) 00:28, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

You're right about Byzantium, though myth had an elaborate literary life after the old religion was no longer felt, was even driven underground: see Dionysiaca. The essential mytheme of the Aptera story is: "Muses challenged by Sirens: Muses 1 Sirens 0". This nugget of myth suggests that at some distant pre-Classical time, a place holy to the Sirens was taken over as a place now holy to the Muses, a Museion, and the Sirens became disfigured, as creatures of terror now, not awe. Were their images cast into the sea? Before the seventh century BCE, but how long before?--Wetman (talk) 00:43, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

That makes a lot of sense.  Nipsonanomhmata  ^(Talk) 01:08, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Niblo's Garden

Hello!

While acknowledging your wiki-experience and authority, I was sorry to see that you deleted the reference to Niblo's Garden (the 'low-brow' entertainment hall in the Bronx).

Although appreciating the arts, my research (non-wikipedic) of the Bronx hall has nothing to do with the Opera House, and others pursuing a similar line now have no reference or disambiguation. That was why I included the information about the latter Niblo's Garden in the wikipedia article. Obscure or not today, the Bronx "Niblo's" was an established entertainment venue in its own right, in its own time.

I'll not interfere with your editing, but I believe the reference was valid for those who may be searching for information on the latter location, who now will only find it under the Lyceum entry, and likely only then by accident or persistant searching.

Kind regards,

Larry Hoefling (mchuston) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mchuston (talk • contribs) 18:58, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Back in September last year I made this edit to Niblo's Garden. Reviewing it, I see that my version was more accurate in two instances and added a useful link to A. T. Stewart, but it did not eliminate any reference (not my usual practice). --Wetman (talk) 19:43, 19 February 2011 (UTC)

Mentoring students: be sure to check in on them

This message is going out to all of the Online Ambassadors who are, or will be, serving as mentors this term.

Hi there! This is just a friendly reminder to check in on what your mentees are doing. If they've started making edits, take a look and help them out or do some example fixes for them, if they need it. And if they are doing good, let them know it!

If you aren't mentoring anyone yet, it looks like you will be soon; at least one large class is asking us to assign mentors for them, and students in a number of others haven't yet gotten to asking ambassadors to be their mentors, but may soon. --Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 20:09, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

groups of students in need of mentors

Hey Wetman. One of the classes working with the Wikipedia Ambassador Program, Jonathan Obar's Media and Telecommunication Policy, is working in small groups and would like us to assign a mentor to each group (rather than having students request the mentors they'd like, as other classes are doing).

I invite you to sign on as the mentor for one or more groups, especially if any of the topics catch your interest. To sign up, go to the course page and add yourself as "Mentor: you" in the section for that group. They students and/or professor or campus ambassadors should be cleaning things up soon to list all the usernames for each group and add a few more groups. Once you know who the students are in the group, you can leave them each a quick introduction to let them know you'll be mentoring their group.

Thanks!--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 19:11, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Silphium

Thank you for helping fix the references on the Silphium page. However, why did you re-add the statement that 'silphium is a species of Ferula' in the lead? I removed all references to its identity to the 'Identity' section because the question is too complex for the lead -- even the genus-level identification to Ferula is not undisputed.

And I think it should be 'possibly extinct' rather than 'probably extinct'. I'm not convinced we can have that much confidence. I did write 'probably' elsewhere, but that was in the context of the Ferula group of suggested identities -- rather than Cachrys ferulacea or Thapsia garganica etc.

Specifically: -it's not so clear Pliny was right about it being extinct in Cyrene, since Synesius of Cyrene wrote about seeing some growing there in the fifth century AD;

-even if it really was extirpated from Cyrene, the idea that it was a distinct species from some of the other Ferula used is ultimately an extrapolation (though perhaps a good one -- I'll have to look into the ranges). Pliny recognizes the stuff from Persia as silphium as well, just lower quality -- a difference in taste doesn't necessarily imply a difference in species.

I admit it's probably not Ferula asafoetida on biogeographic grounds, but can we definitely rule out F. tingitana, F. narthex, etc. (Even F. communis or F. foetida could get involved...) Vultur (talk) 10:09, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

In my edit at Silphium I simply restored a citation-supported statement that had eroded away, improved a badly-used "crux" (commerce has no "crux"), provided a citation that had been demanded, and made "Vinidarius" less specifically identified as an "author". I confess that I'd deleted "possibly", and when I put it back thoughtlessly substituted "probably": your idea that it's not "probably extinct" would be well served by more summary in the article of the published arguments for silphium's continued existence. Perhaps you'd make a start on Ferula tingitana. And perhaps some more detail drawn from the published reports on which you base your doubts and confidences would keep bumblers like me at bay.--Wetman (talk) 19:02, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

lament of Edward II

The DYK needs a tweak. Toodle-pip Johnbod (talk) 02:40, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Please be the mentor for the students working on Communications Act of 1934

Hi again, Wetman! I'm currently trying to assign mentors to all the remaining groups in Professor Obar's class. Would you be the mentor for the group of students working on Communications Act of 1934? If you can do it, thanks! If not, please let me know.--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 00:41, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

I signed myself in and contacted the one student with a userpage.--Wetman (talk) 00:52, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Awesome, thanks!--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 02:11, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Re "chimaira"

Regarding this edit — sorry about that — I was myopically looking in Kerenyi's The Gods of the Greeks, as oppossed to Heroes. Paul August ☎ 03:59, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

I was shocked. Shocked, I tell you... You, one of the handful of editors whose edits never need vetting: shocking! --Wetman (talk) 04:21, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

 ;-) Paul August ☎ 12:08, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Lament of Edward II

Gatoclass (talk) 10:04, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Hello

Hello, This is Andy from TC210 working on the communications act of 1934 and I am looking forward to working with you. Thank you for your time and generosity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Genorok (talk • contribs) 14:40, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Just come back here with any questions you have. This "diff" i.e. difference between two versions of the article showing the edit I recently made there highlights some queries I had for you editors. Matters of fact in the article are your joint responsibility. I'll just be helping you get there. --Wetman (talk) 18:01, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Palais-Royal: your rude remarks

You owe me an explanation for your outrageously rude remarks. This outburst is an appalling display of incivility and immaturity. You have never once spoken to me before in any way, and now you publicly spit on me and my contributions? I reject your remarks and I stand by all my edits. SteveStrummer (talk) 18:13, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, lurkers here may agree, that's a rather vivid post! We note that the architect's name has now been restored to the article! So my immaturity has in fact born fruit. I am convinced that when I said that Jacques Lemercier's name was "doubtless unfamiliar to the 're-editor'", that was accurate enough, as the honorable editor would have to admit, to remain honest. And perhaps I'm not the only one to giggle at " It was at these parties that the crème de la crème of French society came to see and be seen." A bit breathless, after all is said and done, no? I certainly didn't say it was preposterously inflated, did I?--Wetman (talk) 21:13, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Lurker: Yes, quite vivid. Yazan (talk) 21:18, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Are you quite sure you even read my reply? Go review the article's history: I did not write those words. And whoever did would surely be disgusted by such comments from a so-called "Wikipedia Ambassador". SteveStrummer (talk) 21:22, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

I make no claim to have read the editor's retort. Surely it's generally agreed, that whenever one makes twenty or so consecutive edits to an article, one may expect to be held to account for its content. I hope to be useful as a Wikipedia Ambassador, representing common sense, I hope, with a streak of humor, and continuing to earn StevetheStrummer's disgust.--Wetman (talk) 21:49, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

That's an astoundingly bad argument, but it matches your social grace and scholarly approach. Goodbye to you. SteveStrummer (talk) 22:04, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

* Door slams! *

Tch Tch Tch. I was trying to think of something clever about Miss Jean Brodie to add to this distressing thread, but have been greatly consoled to learn here that to be an astronaut "you have to be the crème de la crème" - which must be very nice for any socially aspiring aliens they may encounter. Giacomo Returned 22:37, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

PS:Talking of funny edits and expressions, am I only the person on the world who finds "The village is the location of Sleepy Hollow Cemetery" the most hystericaly funny name for a cemetery? No need to answer - I expect I am - I must do a bio of one of the residents, just so I can have the pleasure of writing: "He silently slipped away and was gently laid to rest in a sleepy hollow." Giacomo Returned 22:50, 6 March 2011 (UTC

Eleanor Perenyi, living and writing in Stonington, which is near Mystic, Connecticut, confessed to a little thrill of pleasure every time she wrote out the check for her utility bill, to Mystic Light and Power.--Wetman (talk) 23:31, 6 March 2011 (UTC))

Wetman's resources of patience and forbearance are in perennially short supply. Principles of triage require that no more of these reserves be expended than any one situation requires. Your understanding is appreciated.

Ladies' Mile Historic District

Thanks for putting the new picture into the article -- I was interrupted by fixing dinner.

To answer the question in your edit summary, I generally don't like to put images on the left side down by the "References" and "External links" sections, because the footnote numbers and bullets always seem too close to the picture for me. But the real problem is that I just not really happy with how the image turned out. I hate having the tower in the background, and miss seeing the second dome on 655 Sixth (which I had to crop out in order to close down the top of the image, or else it looked like the focus was the apartment tower. I'm going to try again tomorrow and see if I can get a shot looking down Sixth at the same 3 buildings, so the background will be other low-lying buildings and maybe I can leave in both domes. So I'm going to hold off on making any adjustments at this time, and see what tomorrow brings. If it's good enough, the buildings will be facing left and the image should work in the lede position. Best, and thanks, Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:45, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Btw, I've been noticing your good New York images at Commons. I patrol through the latest images there sometimes, apprehensive that good images get filed away like the Ark at the close of Indiana Jones and are never retrieved for the encyclopedia itself. --Wetman (talk) 06:37, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

That's great. I do my best to categorize all my uploads as widely (and accurately) as possible, so there's more of a chance that people will find them. Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:16, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Otherwise, what a waste!--Wetman (talk) 07:24, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Secretary hand

Would you be interested in expanding Secretary hand? - PKM (talk) 23:29, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Sure. I've made a start. Perhaps some additions will inspire others.--Wetman (talk) 06:05, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! - PKM (talk) 04:26, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

It would be better if I could actually read it. It's the very devil.--Wetman (talk) 06:27, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

I just bought a font set with two different Secretary hands. ;-) - PKM (talk) 03:26, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing Papyrus Fouad 266

I had left a lengthy note on the Talk page explaining what didn't make sense in the article, & instead of fixing them, he decided to respond on the Talk page. ::sigh:: (Had I known it was under consideration for DYK, I would have quashed that.) At least now, after your efforts, this article is readable, & the notability of the manuscript established -- although I'm certain more could be said about the document. And what is it with this odd desire to have an article on every Biblical manuscript in existence? Some are clearly of practically no interest even to scholars of Biblical texts. -- llywrch (talk) 23:00, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Dictionary thinking. Encyclopedic thinking is a stretch for many. Thanks for yr kind words: long time no see.--Wetman (talk) 23:29, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Just trying to contribute with the limited time I have. I might have more if I stopped trying to pontificate with essays like this. (Yr feedback on this -- even to confirm/deny I am making any sense or writing anything worth reading -- would be welcome.) -- llywrch (talk) 01:59, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, before I dive in, you may quote my Userpage: "Wikipedia is a reader's guide, not the last word on any subject. It answers questions like "Gentile da Fabriano? Was he a pope or something?" Thinking of Wikipedia as an encyclopedia encourages a hundred little pretensions and unhelpful attitudinizing." Heh heh...--Wetman (talk) 02:23, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

My tweaks are minor. I think it's a useful project. In my experience, non-editors seem to miss at Wikipedia the reassuring "knowledgable and paternal control from above" organizing principle, and don't see that the length of a Wikipedia article is not commensurate with its importance in the broadest scheme of things.--Wetman (talk) 02:53, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

I appreciate the tweaks -- a couple of them I will take under serious consideration -- but I was more concerned with the ideas I was grappling with. If nothing else, my thesis that we have no idea of what an encyclopedia is, or what it is good for. Which then means none of us know WTF we are doing -- except for a few who take the "collect all human knowledge" sales pitch seriously. And it means that latest thoughts & research on the encyclopedia genre is to be found on Wikipedia's talk pages -- maybe even WP:AN. (Though I hope not there; if I had my druthers, I can think of a number of essays in different userspaces.)

Thoughts? -- llywrch (talk) 05:45, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Lester is one of many editors who use WP as a convenient base for an online database, aiming at completeness, for a special area they are interested in, like others on warships, lemurs, fungi, hurricanes, English churches, and once upon a time Pokemon characters. At least he does not, like some, largely replicate an existing and more authoritative online database, but instead takes the information from large reference books that are only otherwise to be found in theological libraries. I see no harm in this, in fact collectively such efforts give WP much of its strength, and are useful to readers because WP is so much easier to find via Google than a specialist database. His English is pretty patchy, but his subjects are so obscure that I suppose a fair degree of contextual knowledge can be assumed in all but readers who arrived by hitting "random article". He is not great at context - some articles he has started are on MS that are textually of no great interest, but of considerable fame in art history for their illustrations, which he barely mentions. He is not very responsive to discussion, I've found - it's the cryptic titles he uses that annoy me. Also, is the library in Cairo housing the papyrus, actually and still called the Societé Royale de Papyrologie as he says? One rather doubts that. Johnbod (talk) 12:42, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

The history of encyclopedias since Isidore's is that in the long run they replace the primary sources that they report. That gives me an uneasy feeling sometimes.--Wetman (talk) 19:35, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

tiber river

I was wondering why did you delete the in game section on the tiber river (more info here). Crazymonkey1123 (Jacob) ^(Shout!) 23:49, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

query

Hi Wetman

I came across your work on Wikipedia via the Amalek discussion page, read your user page and found there much to appreciate. I'm writing to ask for your help. Would you be willing to field a few very specific questions for me with regard to how a Wikipedia editor would attempt to manage a questionable subject matter? I'm afraid I find myself out of my depth.

Thanks for your consideration, 24.148.109.199 (talk) 19:39, 14 March 2011 (UTC)Josh

I'd prefer to correspond right here, as my email is very private. Sure, if I can help I'd be glad to. Does "questionable subject matter" mean that the actual historic existence of the subject (the religion) was in doubt? The editor's first reaction would be to ask for citations of published text relating to the subject, to support statements made in the article.--Wetman (talk) 21:01, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the fast reply.

I understand about the need for privacy. So much so that I'm loath to discuss a work-in-progress in a public forum.

If you don't mind, I'll delate as we go, as I've done above ... that should keep things somewhat private.

... yes, by questionable I mean the religion is in doubt, and a person in the world, an expert, an editor, any knowledgable party would prima facie deny its existence. The trick is to will it into being even as the world greets it with a skeptical eye. Think early Mormons, think Scientology.

So if I understand correctly: you see an article of questionable epistemic claims (though putatively rooted in a "verified" "legitimate" religious tradition) supported by some pretty paltry citations. You don't shut it down automatically or mark it for speedy deletion? Sounds like first you send it to the discussion page. There you encounter one author, the article's creator ... what do you ask him to do? I'm looking not only for the right protocol, but also the words of the exchange, what you'd naturally say to someone who's article you question down to the core.

Thanks again. --24.148.109.199 (talk) 00:43, 15 March 2011 (UTC)Josh

Paltry citations would include archived newspaper articles, etc. about this new cult. If there were none, it would quite reasonably be deleted as Wikipedia: Non-notable, prima facie. A strong response is to list the new article at Wikipedia: Articles for Deletion, ("AfD") as an example of the kind of inventive essay (creating this "new religion" that doesn't actually exist) that is given the generic label Wikipedia: Original Research. Follow the two links and read through the archives to catch the general tone. Also, look into Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion and Wikipedia:Do not create hoaxes, which would soon be invoked, as would Wikipedia:Controversial articles. The links in the sidebar "What links here" will offer you some leads. Study posts at all the talkpages connected with these links, to get the range of reactions and develop your ear. --Wetman (talk) 08:38, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

A belated thanks ... exactly what I needed. Give a man a fish or teach him to go fishing, as the saying goes. Thanks for the fishing lesson. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.191.226.50 (talk) 22:52, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

About writing dialogue. Good dialogue sets the scene in passing references, demonstrates the character and thought processes and moves the action forward, with a minimum of dialogue that merely adds "local color." I imagine from its subject the piece at which you are working is humorous: see H.H. Munro "The Open Window". See what could be subtracted. --Wetman (talk) 23:11, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Marking articles students are working on

Howdy, Online Ambassador!

This is a quick message to all the ambassadors about marking and tracking which articles students are working on. For the classes working with the ambassador program, please look over any articles being worked on by students (in particular, any ones you are mentoring, but others who don't have mentors as well) and do these things:

1. Add {{WAP assignment | term = Spring 2011 }} to the articles' talk pages. (The other parameters of the {{WAP assignment}} template are helpful, so please add them as well, but the term = Spring 2011 one is most important.)
2. If the article is related to United States public policy, make sure the article the WikiProject banner is on the talk page: {{WikiProject United States Public Policy}}
3. Add Category:Article Feedback Pilot (a hidden category) to the article itself. The second phase of the Article Feedback Tool project has started, and this time we're trying to include all of the articles students are working on. Please test out the Article Feedback Tool, as well. The new version just deployed, so any bug reports or feedback will be appreciated by the tech team working on it.

And of course, don't forget to check in on the students, give them constructive feedback, praise them for positive contributions, award them {{The WikiPen}} if they are doing excellent work, and so on. And if you haven't done so, make sure any students you are mentoring are listed on your mentor profile.

Thanks! --Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 18:15, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject United States Public Policy: Communications Act of 1934

I heard you are our group mentor. Now, our group is going to update the information about Communications Act of 1934. I'm looking for an act had conflict with Communications Act of 1934 because I want to add some details of the Act of 1934. Do you know any act had conflict with the Act of 1934?? I tried to do googling to find that but I could find the revision of the Act of 1934 only. Could you give me the way to find the act I'm looking for if you do not know about it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nalihero (talk • contribs) 22:58, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi! I changed your heading so we'll all recognize it, and collect our posts under it, adding them below. (Btw, sign your posts here or at any Talkpage automatically by adding four tildes [ ~~~~ ] at the end.)--Wetman (talk) 01:33, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Let me give you a hint about your Watchlist, You'll want all pages you edit to appear automatically on your watchlist when you select it: select "my preferences", then choose Watchlist, and make sure you've checked the box "Add pages I edit to my watchlist": hell, why not check "Add pages I create to my watchlist". You'll be keeping track of all your Wikipedia edits for your course, and this is how to do it.--Wetman (talk) 01:52, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Now, though I can't help you much with the actual content of your edits, on which you're all being graded and where I'm no expert, I'd suggest that, according to the article Communications Act of 1934, the Telecommunications Act of 1996 modified it. You three should read the full text of the 1934 Act (or its official abstract)-- I found the on-line text in the article'sfirst reference-- and edit a clear brief summary of it into the article, which currently has only a skeleton outline; compare the 1994 Act to see just how the former act has been modified, and make that a section of your article. The 1934 Act "replaced the Federal Radio Commission with the Federal Communications Commission": now, looking at those articles (which you may want to modify, for credit), what was the difference? i.e., what was the original effect of the 1934 Act? What about the unsuccessful CelAntenna suit (what was its date anyway?) and the Safe Prisons Communications Act that I see mentioned? Are there legit questions at Talk:Communications Act of 1934 that one of you guys should respond to, when you have useful answers? All this I get merely from reading the article Communications Act of 1934, which you three probably want to establish as a Wikipedia: Good Article, yes?--Wetman (talk) 01:33, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Wetman, sorry I am a little late to the game, but I am a notorious procrastinator. I am glad to see that you are our mentor and can help us along with this project. If I have any questions I will make sure I come to you. Thank you Schlaude (talk) 01:53, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

You're not late at all. Hello! My remarks just above are for all of you.--Wetman (talk) 01:57, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Some days ago I made two edits to Communications Act of 1934, in the Wikipedian way, not knowing anything but what I was reading. Link to the article, then choose "page history": there's the whole transparent history! Mark the boxes next to my edits and "compare selected revisions" to get the "diff", that is the difference between versions. See the combined edits I made. I figured "Virgin" was vandalism and deleted it, an easy call. I also made a query to editors (like you all) invisibly. so it doesn't mark up the public text (it's "commented-out" in Wikispeak). The html for this is <!--text-->. I find this is a more direct way to ask an editor for clarification of a specific point that can be silently edited than a post at Talk:Communications Act of 1934, inviting commentary. --Wetman (talk) 02:08, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Service award level

There has been a major revision of the the Service Awards: the edit requirements for the higher levels have been greatly reduced, to make them reasonably attainable.

Because of this, your Service Award level has been changed, and you are now eligible for a higher level. I have taken the liberty of updating your award on your user page.

Herostratus (talk) 02:45, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Professor Obar Concerns

Got a message about an hour ago from Professor Obar of the Media and Telecommunication Policy project and I think it is viewed best in full:

Can you please communicate to the online mentors that I DO NOT want them moving student material into the main space for them. This is a big problem. I have noticed that this has happened with a number of the projects already, for example, in the broadband.gov article and the media cross-ownership article. We need the students to be doing this on their own, of course so they can learn how to do it, and also so that I can grade what they've done. How am I supposed to follow student submissions if the data is associated with online mentors? A BIG PROBLEM ALREADY... please help me with this. None of you responded to my post about this on the discussion page. This is about to get out of hand. Jaobar (talk) 05:27, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

With that, of course, please only give instructions on how to move, don't do it for them. Please only let them know what to do and let them do it themselves. If they run into problems, provide further instructions. Do not it for them. This seems to be making a mess of Prof. Obar's grading system and I would like to avoid that. Thanks. - Neutralhomer • Talk • Coor. Online Amb'dor • 06:12, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia Ambassador Program Newsletter: 21 March 2011

The newsletter of the Wikipedia Ambassador Program – Volume 3, 21 March 2011 This is the third issue of the Wikipedia Ambassador Program Newsletter, with details about what's going on right now and where help is needed. Where the courses are - A brief summary of how each of the 31 Public Policy Initiative courses are faring so far in the Spring 2011 term, as of 9-11 March. Feel free to add more detail. Tracking students' articles - Make sure students' articles are tagged with {{WAP assignment}} on the talk pages, and have the newly improved Article Feedback Tool active. Education portal in progress - Wikimedia staff have started work on an outreach portal for information about teaching with and about Wikipedia. Please help develop it! Online Ambassadors logistics - If you don't have a Wikipedia Ambassador sweatshirt, now's your chance to get one! (Also, some other more mundane, but important, details.) Steering committee preparing proposals - Look for discussions about two major proposals about the future ambassador program soon: the "Regional Ambassador" role, and elections for a new committee. Editing Friday returns - This Friday, join fellow ambassadors and others real-time collaboration on Wainwright Building.

Delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 22:28, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Once the Bechstein's pawned

There's a dubious list being created here [1], you might wish to comment on the talk page - I am already there, but not making much headway. Even if the term were acceptable and encyclopedic, is a "home" still a "home" - let alone "stately" when it has been a school since the 1920s, an army college or a prison - somehow I doubt it. Giacomo Returned 21:45, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

This editor is also active at Arabesque (see below) btw - in fact those are his main articles. Johnbod (talk) 20:19, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Arabesque

You might care to revisit the talk page here, starting with your last contribution in 2006 (though the article has greatly changed). Then, perhaps after a stiff drink, Arabesque (European art). Johnbod (talk) 16:03, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

This is not my field at all, so I won't interfere, but can one of you just answer me a question. I always think of "Arabesque" as mostly dodgy interior decoration (louche setees and shades of the harem) so if I had been asked to choose an image as representative of Arabesque. I would gave said this was a good example - am I right or wrong. Damn annoying if I have been under a misaprehension all these years; I thought the real thing was called Islamic or Byzantine. Good job my architectural writings stays firmly those influenced by my fellow countrymen. Giacomo Returned 18:44, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I'd have to say wrong for that one, though it's a fun style for the spare bedroom. Johnbod (talk) 19:37, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I had a feeling it may be. One should always know one's limitations and mine (my wife informs me) is interior decoration - so no news to me there. Just spotted your comment above - I feel on safer ground there, what a coincidence -it's a small world, isn't it? Giacomo Returned 21:15, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes the "Moorish taste" of the 19th century is not the "arabesque" of historical European design. Peter Ward-Jackson wrote an article on the arabesque in decorative design for an early (1970s) issue of the Bulletin of the Victoria and Albert Museum. Editing his statements into the article [[Arabesque (European art) might clarify it. It's somebody's hobby page, I sense, so I dare not touch it.--Wetman (talk) 00:25, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

MSU TC 210 Assignment 8

Wetman,

I am very new to using Wikipedia and still very inefficient when trying to add new content to the website. I have about 500 words to add the Michigan State University page about the Kellogg Hotel and Conference Center, but am thinking about making the Kellogg Center its own page. I was wondering if you could guide me with making the Kellogg Centers page add adding a few citations to my information.

Thank you, Derek Schlau / Schlaude (talk) 15:49, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

This is the best way to go. Add your brief section at Michigan State University or perhaps more relevantly, to Campus of Michigan State University, with a subheading ===Kellogg Hotel and Conference Center===. The first time the name comes up in your text, put the pair of square brackets round Kellogg Hotel and Conference Center. Then copy the whole text and hold it. Reduce the version at Campus of Michigan State University to a concise summary, maybe just a sentence or two. Preview then save your work. Now, click on the red link you've just made and paste your held text into your new article. Now you'll need to select a category and add your citations using the <ref>[url + title]</ref>. The formula

==Notes== {{Reflist}} will display your notes. Remember to log in with your MSU seminar leader this and all edits you make, for credit!--Wetman (talk) 22:47, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia Ambassador Program Newsletter: 22 April 2011

The newsletter of the Wikipedia Ambassador Program – Volume 4, 22 April 2011 This is the fourth issue of the Wikipedia Ambassador Program Newsletter, with details about what's going on right now and where help is needed. Voting begins for steering committee - The voting phase for the Wikipedia Ambassador Steering Committee election started this week, and will continue through 27 April. Seeking more Regional Ambassadors in the US - We are still looking for Regional Ambassadors for the United States! The deadline has been extended to Friday, April 29th. India pilot being organized now - Plans are currently underway for a pilot expansion of the Wikipedia Ambassador Program – in India! Hisham Mundol and other Wikimedia staff have begun recruiting Campus Ambassador candidates for Pune. Document DYK, peer review and other milestone at the trophy case - If students you are working with (or any others you notice) are doing work that makes to DYK, is nominated for Good Article status, or is just solid content worth marking, then please help us document the students' success at the trophy case. Ambassador program at Wikimania - We're planning a set of Wikipedia Ambassador Program presentations for Wikimania 2011, in Haifa this August. Changes to mailing list - A new low-volume mailing list, [Ambassador-announce-l], is being created. It will be reserved for key announcements and news, which we'd like all ambassadors to be subscribed to.

Delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) 16:38, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Greek history and Etruscans

Hello,

I see that you are interested in Greek History from your Wiki User page. So thought would be nice to know if you have a collection of sorts for links on Etruscan-Greek cross influence and history? Of course not just in Wikipedia. Would appreciate any help here. Thanks and regards Hangakiran (talk) 14:40, 25 April 2011 (UTC )

But every book on Etruscans relates Etruscan culture, such as we know it, to Greek.--Wetman (talk) 15:26, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Please help assess articles for Public Policy Initiative research

Hi Wetman,

Your work as an Online Ambassador is making a big contribution to Wikipedia. Right now, we're trying to measure just how much student work improves the quality of Wikipedia. If you'd like contribute to this research and get a firsthand look at the quality improvement that is happening through the project, please sign up to assess articles. Assessment is happening now, just use the quantitative metric and start assessing! Your help would be hugely appreciated!

Thank you, ARoth (Public Policy Initiative) (talk) 17:15, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia Ambassador sweatshirt

Hi! This is the last call for signing on for a Wikipedia Ambassador hooded sweatshirt (in case you missed the earlier message in one of the program newsletters about it). If you would like one, please email me with your name, mailing address, and (US) sweatshirt size. We have a limited number left, so it will be first-come, first-served. (If more than one size would work for you, note that as well.)

Cheers, Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 19:43, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Hello

How are you ? Well I have spent some time upgrading the Jaffna article and would like to know, whether you could look into it from CE point of view, if you had the time. Much appreciated for your help as always. Thanks Kanatonian (talk) 20:38, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Jean-Pierre Latz

Hello! Your submission of Jean-Pierre Latz at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and there still are some issues that may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! — Mr. Stradivarius ^♫ 18:42, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Re: Best Soul Gospel Performance, Male or Female

1990 is correct (see Grammy Awards of 1990). The award was presented in 1990 for albums and songs released in 1989, hence the discrepancy. --Another Believer _(Talk) 18:48, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Please take the Wikipedia Ambassador Program survey

Hi Ambassador,

We are at a pivotal point in the development of the Wikipedia Ambassador Program. Your feedback will help shape the program and role of Ambassadors in the future. Please take this 10 minute survey to help inform and improve the Wikipedia Ambassadors.

WMF will de-identify results and make them available to you. According to KwikSurveys' privacy policy: "Data and email addresses will not be sold, rented, leased or disclosed to 3rd parties." This link takes you to the online survey: http://kwiksurveys.com?u=WPAmbassador_talk

Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments, Thank You!

Amy Roth (Research Analyst, Public Policy Initiative) (talk) 20:47, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for your DYK review of Skipping Towards Gomorrah. You may be interested to note that there is a related article that I recently created, the new article Savage Love: Straight Answers from America's Most Popular Sex Columnist. I posted notices about its creation to the talk pages of relevant WikiProjects. ;) Cheers, -- Cirt (talk) 05:53, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

• Update: User Drrll (talk · contribs) tagged this article as "advert"; I removed the tag as there was zero explanation given on the talk page. What are your thoughts on this action? -- Cirt (talk) 09:20, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Eh, nevermind for now, I will wait to see if the user attempts to explain at the article's talk page. -- Cirt (talk) 09:23, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Though most books are suitable subjects for articles, that editor may have noted your posting to 6 pages about it and read that as spam.--Wetman (talk) 17:36, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Ah, incorrect. I was posting to talk pages of WikiProjects, to allow for community input! Quite the opposite. -- Cirt (talk) 17:44, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

"Incorrect" indeed.--Wetman (talk) 17:59, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! -- Cirt (talk) 17:59, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Jean-Pierre Latz

The DYK project (nominate) 16:03, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Peer review requested

re: Eastern span replacement of the San Francisco - Oakland Bay Bridge cc: User:Wetman, User:Giggett, User:Sam

Your peer review is requested.

I think that that this article has reached a point of stability and needs little to bring it up to "A" status (currently "B"), probably mostly a check of the external links for link rot. Other than that, which I and Giggett will do, would you care to review for tone, presentation, order, grammar, layout, style, etc. etc.?. One thing I am concerned about is that any change in status will attract image size ***, who will change the images to unreadable postage stamp size (after months of careful "magazine" layout, or who will object to the major sectionalization (after much work and consideration by myself and another editor, this was quickly undone by a previously unseen editor but also quickly reverted by myself), etc.

I would like to maintain this high level status until bridge opening in 2013 and then go for FA status. Your assistance this effort will be appreciated.

Please forward to any editors you think worthy of the invitation, particularly those of a technical, structural, or architectural inclination.

It is my personal belief that this structure will rank among the most significant modern structural+artistic achievements alongside the works of Santiago_Calatrava, Frank Lloyd Wright, and particularly, Jørn Utzon (Sydney Opera House), despite the fact that there is no single big name personality dominating this design.

Thanks, Leonard G. (talk) 23:43, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

*** (Fill in your favorite pejorative term here)

DYK for Jones's Wood

Materialscientist (talk) 08:05, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Copied solar tracker article

Hi Wetman:

Could you take a look at this - we have an external use that appears to violate our license terms.

User_talk:Anmclarke#Copied_solar_tracker_article

Thanks, Leonard G. (talk) 22:47, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Do you know where I can find the boilerplate for a polite letter? - Leonard G. (talk) 01:48, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps one of the lurkers here may know.--Wetman (talk) 15:02, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Wetman, some years ago, you pointed out on Talk:Canonical, that that article really should be a wiktionary article. I agree that it is not encyclopedic, so I recently rewrote it as a disambiguation page. An anon reverted. Would you care to look in on this? Thanks, --Macrakis (talk) 21:57, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Wrotham Park Lodge

Btw, this is up for speedy deletion. Simply south...... digging mountains for 5 years 13:23, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Curzon Street Baroque

I discovered for the first time this term the other day. Have you heard of it before? I've added it to a page here [2] and it does get a few google hits - it's the style I "sort of" have at home - perhaps you too, but did not realise it had a name - I wondered if you have any concrete books and sources to found a page on - I don't care for pages founded solely on google hits. What do you think? Giacomo Returned 17:48, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Osbert Lancaster invented the term, along with "Stockbroker Tudor" and "Pont Street Dutch" --in From Pillar to Post, I think. I should have had my grandmother's copy but never got it, so I haven't seen the book since ca 1960. Should "Curzon Street Baroque" be a section of Baroque Revival? You're getting there, I surmise, via the Rex Whistler bath at Upton House, Warwickshire. Osbert Lancaster's cartoon of an eclectic 20s interior though isn't as vivid as, say this detail of South Africa House.--Wetman (talk) 18:55, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

• I have passed South Africa House a bilion times (most recently this afternoon) and never noticed it really. The Bank of England I always marvel at - a palace on top of a palace, but I'd never seen, until you drew my atention to it, that SA House pulls the same trick. Yes, Upton House I saw a few days ago - sadly, not enough there for me to write it up, too altered and not a lot of documentation - amazing art colection though; it must have been fun being rich in the early 20th century all that stuff could be still acquired by a private collector with a few dollars to spare. Osbert lancaster also coined the term "Bankers' Georgian" - I think I wil try and acquite a copy of "Pillar to Post" is sounds just my thing. Giacomo Returned 21:52, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

PS:next door to SA House is the "Texas Embassy"; it was years before I realsied that Texas did not have an embassy and it was a restaurant! Giacomo Returned 21:54, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes, you'll get a huge charge out of the Lancaster book. Didn't I recommend it you a couple of years back? Try eBay: what a resource! --

I am looking for an opinion

An image of the Pullman Memorial Universalist Church appeared as an example of Richardsonian Romanesque on that page. They say "if the cap fits, wear it." Do you think that this cap fits? Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 05:01, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Hmm. The article's outsized image gallery with briefest captions is too lazy to be useful to the reader, in my opinion. The Richardsonian Romanesque elements in each illustrated example really should be identified in related text, and extraneous, non-Richardsonian-- and even non-Romanesque-- elements identified too. This would be harassed though as "original research" so I have no easy solution. The overall rustication, strips of windows, embedded tower, massive crossing clerestory, are all good Richardsonian elements in the Pullman design I'd say. Yes? But you'd never mistake it for an H.H. Richardson design. There's a Romanesque Revival article too; this example would be better there. --Wetman (talk) 07:32, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. (Better late than never} Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 18:17, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

You're never late, Einar.--Wetman (talk) 23:01, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Ambassador Program: assessment drive

Even though it's been quiet on-wiki, the Wikipedia Ambassador Program has been busy over the last few months getting ready for the next term. We're heading toward over 80 classes in the US, across all disciplines. You'll see courses start popping up here, and this time we want to match one or more Online Ambassadors to each class based on interest or expertise in the subject matter. If you see a class that you're interested, please contact the professor and/or me; the sooner the Ambassadors and professors get in communication, the better things go. Look for more in the coming weeks about next term.

In the meantime, with a little help I've identified all the articles students did significant work on in the last term. Many of the articles have never been assessed, or have ratings that are out of date from before the students improved them. Please help assess them! Pick a class, or just a few articles, and give them a rating (and add a relevant WikiProject banner if there isn't one), and then update the list of articles.

Once we have updated assessments for all these articles, we can get a better idea of how quality varied from course to course, and which approaches to running Wikipedia assignments and managing courses are most effective.

--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 17:31, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Zibellino

Is this the "studio of Bronzino" potrait of Isabella de' Medici with a zibellino, do you suppose? The source suggests Allori, but not with any certainty. - PKM (talk) 23:16, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes, that's the one. I was merely going by the source I gave, which isn't art history. Want to add it to the article and to Isabella de' Medici?--Wetman (talk) 23:27, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Yep. - PKM (talk) 00:24, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Online Ambassadors: Time to join pods

Hello! If you're planning to be an active Online Ambassador for the upcoming academic term, now is the time to join one or more pods. (A pod consists of the instructor, the Campus Ambassadors, and the Online Ambassadors for single class.) The Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) explains the expectations for being part of a pod as an Online Ambassador. (The MOU for pods in Canada is essentially the same.) In short, the role of Online Ambassadors this term consists of:

• Working closely with the instructor and Campus Ambassadors, providing advice and perspective as an experienced Wikipedian
• Helping students who ask for it (or helping them to find the help they need)
• Watching out for the class as a whole
• Helping students to get community feedback on their work

This replaces the 1-on-1 mentoring role for Online Ambassadors that we had in previous terms; rather than being responsible for individual students (some of whom don't want or help or are unresponsive), Online Ambassadors will be there to help whichever students in their class(es) ask for help.

You can browse the upcoming courses here: United States; Canada. More are being added as new pods become active and create their course pages.

Once you've found a class that you want to work with—especially if you some interest or expertise in the topic area—you should sign the MOU listing for that class and get in touch with the instructor. We're hoping to have at least two Online Ambassadors per pod, and more for the larger classes.

If you're up for supporting any kind of class and would like me to assign you to a pod in need of more Online Ambassadors, just let me know.

--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 16:37, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

PS: There are still a lot of student articles from the last term that haven't been rated. Please rate a few and update the list!

Pod suggestions

Hi Wetman! I'm in the process of trying to find Online Ambassadors to support each of the classes for this coming term, and I want to recommend a couple to you: Wikipedia:United States Education Program/Courses/Berkeley Sociology Poverty Course (Sandra Smith) and Wikipedia:United States Education Program/Courses/Theories of the State (Erik Olin Wright). If you're up for it, please check out the Memorandum of Understanding (linked above) which sketches the expectations for Online Ambassadors this term, and then you can sign on to a class and get in touch with the professor.

If there's another class you'd rather support (or if you're up for joining more than one pod), feel free! We're shooting for at least about 2 Online Ambassadors for each class.--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 16:04, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

One other that might appeal to your interests: Wikipedia:United States Education Program/Courses/Art and Terrorism (Diane Apostolos-Cappadona) --Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 16:19, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Edward Solly

Happy to help. Thanks for asking; interesting article. PKM (talk) 16:04, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

But, thank you. I thought the subject would interest you.

Question

Hi. Have you come across the term Virgo inter Virgines. I found it in some specualtion as to what the lost center panel of Campin's Werl triptych might have contained, but cannot find a definition, or even anything, at least in my limited books or the interwebs. The sentence is "...[might have] provided the setting for a Virgo inter Virgines". Ceoil (talk) 21:33, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

No it's not an iconographic subject I know; but I see at Googlescholar that " Works of art that depict the Virgin and Christ Child surrounded by Early Christian virgin martyrs were produced in significant numbers in Northern Europe," according to a dissertaion by SE Weed, The Virgo inter virgines: Art and the devotion to virgin saints in the Low Countries and Germany, 1400--1530 University of Pennsylvania, 2002. Van Eyck and Gerard David both treated the them, I see. And there's a "Master of the Virgo inter Virgines". Google it at Google scholar.--Wetman (talk) 20:31, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

We have a commons category, which contains just female-only sacra conversationes, though there are also images, perhaps derived from St Ursula & her 1,000 virgins, of the Virgin & Child surrounded by an anonymous scrum of girls, like this beautiful one in the Morgan Library [3], also this somewhat intermediate painting, also Gerard David, in Rouen. I don't think all the virgins here have specific identities. I suppose i'll have to do an article some time; it should be a redlink. Johnbod (talk) 12:37, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Mutiny at Sucro

If you have time could you look over Mutiny at Sucro, an article I recently started. Thanks.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 22:04, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Great improvements you made to the article. Thanks.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 16:45, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

It's a while since I heard from you. Glad you're still on the project. How could this story not already be covered by a Wikipedia article, eh? A passing brief notice in Second Punic War would tie the new article more firmly into the broader fabric. --Wetman (talk) 16:55, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Followed up on your suggestion. Great idea! You will never guess where I came across this - or maybe you could.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 19:02, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Livy of course! Did you know that Petrarch idolized this historian. I guess he used Livy for his source of Africa and De Viris Illustribus. As you know Africa is about the Second Punic War. Petrarch was crowned poet laureate in 1341 for his epic poem about Scipio Africanus. Petrarch's Africa is taken directly from Livy's extensive Roman work of the "Foundation of the City" Books 21 to 30. Mutiny at Sucro is in Book 28.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 19:40, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

What I find fasinating is the rebels' insignia they had on their arms. The way I am getting it is that the rebels at Sucro had an arm insignia of "fasces and axes" which was a representation of death. I am understanding the story then that they had to remove their insignia when they made a new alliance to Rome after they were scolded in a long speech by Africanus for high treason.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 21:40, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

The fasces binding the axe were/are a symbol of the power of the state over life and death. They had to renounce their own mutinous appropriation of the power behind the symbols, in putting the symbols of power aside.--Wetman (talk) 16:26, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Sounds typical of what I would imagine rebels would do.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 18:07, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Well, I must confess. I originally found the Mutiny at Sucro material in 3 large chapters in a 400 year old book (2011 - 400 = 1611) written in England. The referenced material was originally researched and written by Polybius however, then followed by Livy and others. It later was translated from Latin into English, which book I found. I was told not to reveal the book, however if you want to look over the 3 chapters just e-mail me and I will forward. Can not put it on Wikipedia.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 22:28, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

I am finding also in this book material on Andobales and Mandonius (Indibilis and Mandonius), especially pertaining to Inbidilis's daughters and Mandonius's wife. Maybe IF (big if) I can find enough sources I perhaps might write up an article on them. Do you have any ideas, especially in Primary Sources? I think I have all there is in Polybius and Livy which isn't much (or perhaps I have overlooked some and didn't see more). I would think there is some ancient sources somewhere since this old book talks alot of them and seem to think they play a big role in Scipio Africanus's life. I'll keep studying Polybius and Livy meanwhile and see if I can find more. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 00:02, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

If you can edit together what you find concerning Andobales in Polybius and Livy, you'll have done the job, I think. Double-check modern general references and prosopographies just to be sure.--Wetman (talk) 14:16, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Punishment

Going a little further on the Mutiny at Sucro, it says at the end of Livy 28:29 These were stripped to the waist and conducted into the middle of the assembly; all the apparatus of punishment was at once brought out; they were tied to the stake, scourged and finally beheaded. I am interested in the word "scourged" and IF in this case it would have something to do with a punishment related to burning.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 19:10, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

No, scourging is whipping.--Wetman (talk) 01:09, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Great! I asked the Reference Desk and they lead me to Scourge, which is what you say as whipping. I didn't know this and it is new to me. Apparently Jesus was scourged. The next chapter I am reading in this old book is revealing to me how ironic it is that the insignia the mutineers chose of fasces ("death") is what happened to the ringleaders. It is revealing to me in detail the punishment the ringleaders received. It appears the information for this chapter was obtained from Livy 28:29. It is talking about these instigators/ringleaders and the similitude of burning. At first I thought this was burning at the stake, however I now see the author really means the burning from being whipped. I got confused with the stake. It tells how these ringleaders were captured the night before and put into shackles and then brought out to the forum the next morning where they were punished and beheaded. I see that the author must have felt this event relating to the mutiny at Sucro was a very important event in Scipio Africanus's life to devote so many chapters on this. Thanks for answers and much thanks for improving the last two articles I started. I see now that Mutiny at Sucro is a DYK and on the main page.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 12:11, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Oh cool!--Wetman (talk) 14:27, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

From what I remember of my Jesuit childhood and forced studying of the lives (and more often deaths) of the saints, it's a particularly nasty form of flogging - small flints were tied into the knoted leather and it was usually a prelude to something even more grusome, usually involving red hot pincers and/or grid irons. I expect in this day and age some people pay for and enjoy the experience. Giacomo Returned 18:15, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

see Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities#Ancient Roman punishment in the middle for an excellent detailed explanation off the Latin by User:Gx872op.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 18:23, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

From further answers of above link it looks like this further new chapter I am reading is being revealed to me correctly.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 19:19, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Here is how I am seeing certain sentences in the chapter I am reading now of the old book: It talks of the mutiny instigators/ringleaders being called their names and they went to "the similitude of burning". Which I have now figured out was being tied to a stake then whipped that stung very much, liking to burning. Now here is what is really cool - the biblical meaning for Damascus. You'll be surprised how many times Damascus is used. The chapter continues and describes that they were brought to the forum and beheaded. This all seems to be coming off Livy 28:29 which to me is really cool.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 12:32, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Here is an example of what I am reading: 7 And the men (mutineers) which journeyed with them (ringleaders) stood speechless, saying no voice and seeing some beheaded bodies. This is where it appears to come from of Livy 28:29 The spectators were so benumbed by terror that no voice was raised against the severity of the punishment, not even a groan was heard. Seems like one and the same to me.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 15:19, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Fasces

Would the fasces normally just have one axe or perhaps a winged pair of axes in the 3rd century BC?--Doug Coldwell ^talk 23:18, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

A double-headed axe, not winged I don't think, but I don't know such an early visual representation.--Wetman (talk) 01:09, 15 September 2011 (UTC

I'm wrong about "double-headed".--Wetman (talk) 01:15, 15 September 2011 (UTC))

After further investigating, apparently the construction of the fasces involved a single axe. However in the chapter I am reading it definitely describes the rebel insignia as that of the fasces and as being "winged". Now in my mind this could be as the Insignia of the National Guard Bureau of the United States of America shows. Possibly their insignia had a crossed pair similar to this. Intesesting what the biblical word meaning of Tarsus is. Cool stuff isn't it.....--Doug Coldwell ^talk 12:54, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Interesting. Remember that the ancient city of Tarsus, Mersin still bore a Hittite name, that was transliterated into Greek then Latin. So connections with "winged" would have to be in the Hittite language for them to be real, not simply coincidences of sound.--Wetman (talk) 15:19, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't disagree with you, assuming you are referring to about 2000 years ago. I do believe you have hit on my point exactly. Assuming all this that I am deciphering was written some 2000 years ago, how is it that I can get details on the Mutiny at Sucro from it. Lets say it was written originally some 2000 years ago in ancient Greek, then recopied a bazillion times by various different copiest for some 500 years before it is translated from Greek into Latin. When it translated from Greek into Latin I can imagine much was lost in translation. Then it is copied and recopied a bazillion more times (keeping in mind how much information is added or subtracted by each copiest each time distorting the original information). Now around the 14th century it is translated from Latin into Medieval English, again losing much of the original information. Then it is recopied again a few more times until the printing press comes along, which slows down the inaccuracies. Now I get the 1611 version and see the Mutiny of Sucro in detail (example sentence in Punishment above). The points I see are pretty close to Livy material. Perhaps the Tarsus you describe and the Tarsus I describe are two different animals. The Tarsus I see is only a definition, as is Damascus above. When I fill in these definitions and follow certain rules in the deciphering process I get the Mutiny at Sucro story and other stories that relate to Scipio Africanus. To me something isn't quite right about this. It should be so scrambled from all the translations and recopying that it shouldn't have anything that resembles any story following any set of rules. It should be nothing but a scrambled mess, however I get exact stories with details that are accurate. Like I say, I found the Mutiny at Sucro and Indibilis and Mandonius originally from this deciphering. I knew nothing of this until it was revealed to me this way. Apparently no other Wikipedian knew of this either, since there was no articles on these. Then researching this of course I came up with references to write up articles, mostly coming from Livy and Polybius.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 18:51, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

There are 4 large chapters dedicated to Mutiny at Sucro that only a person with much study on Scipio Africanus would have known. In fact the "book" describes that this person wrote these chapters AFTER the matter on Africa. If you want to e-mail me I could forward the 4 chapters to you. I prefer not to give out any more details here on Wikipedia.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 21:45, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

You can get an overview of the reconstructed history of manuscript transmission of Livy's text from the introduction to the opening volume in Loeb Classical Library. Lots of Livy is missing, of course. A concise version of it would be good at the Wikipedia Livy article.--Wetman (talk) 23:12, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

You always come up with the greatest ideas.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 14:59, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Indibilis and Mandonius

If you have time could you look over Indibilis and Mandonius, an article I recently started. Thanks.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 13:26, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Was the Hanno at the Battle of Cissa Hanno, son of Bomilcar? If so, the link should be made. I did make a few minor copy edits. Very interesting stuff, Doug.--Wetman (talk) 13:58, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes. According to Polybius 3.42 ...giving them native guides and placing them under the command of Hanno, the son of Bomilcar the Suffete. Thanks for the editing and comments. Like I said, you'll never guess where I stumbled across Indibilis and Mandonius. I'll continue and see what else is revealed. Thanks again for your help.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 15:15, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

John of Padua

I've found an enigma. Do you happen to know anything about the enigmatic John of Padua? Did he exist or was he John Thorpe do you think? Giacomo Returned 19:06, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

John Summerson calls John of Padua ("Padua" isn't his surname) a "will-o'-the-wisp" called up by Horace Walpole, who assigned to him on the basis of his Italian name and the unique title 'Deviser of Buildings'-- together with Holbein-- the introduction of 'regular' architecture into England. Summerson quashes attributions to John of Padua in a few slightly snide remarks in Architecture in Britain 1530-1830, p. 6 and footnotes. Should I edit Summerson's scepticism into the article? I have no independent opinion, and I don't have the relevant King's Works volume.

Nice to see you on the job, as it were!--Wetman (talk) 00:37, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Porta Honoris, Caius College, Cambridge. No, seriously, there is look of Scrotum Towers there - John of Padua is the missing link

The phantom John of Padua first surfaced in the searches of George Vertue in records of the Office of Works, the poet Thomas Gray reported to his friend Horace Walpole (letter of 2 September 1760). Gray prefaces his remarks with the caveat "Mr Vertue's MSS (as I do not doubt you have experienced) will often put you on a false scent." It was Vertue who jumped to the conclusion that John of Padua designed Somerset House and Longleat, Burroughs the Master of Caius College had told Gray: "That it was from the similitude of style in those buildings and in the four gates of Keys College, he had imagined the latter to be also the work of John of Padua, and this was all the proof he had of it. Upon looking at these gates I plainly see that they might very well be the work of one man. From the College books I find that the east side, in which are the Portae Virtutis and Sapientiae, was built in 1566 and 1576." Gray goes on to quote a Latin entry in the books of 1575, ascribing the design of the Gate of Honour (Porta Honoris]] to Dr Caius himself (quam Doctor Caius (dum viveret) Architecto praescripserat elaborata). From this John of Padua appeared in Walpole's Anecdotes of Painting, with the ascription to him of Somerset House and Longleat.--Wetman (talk) 02:42, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

• Oh please add something to the page - anything - before I am accused of inventing him for my own nefarious purposes. I have a feeling he may have been involved in the architecture here. Giacomo Returned 07:25, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

I've added the Summerson material. You see that I'm working from my 1963 edition of Architecture in Britain. Does the current ninth edition mention "John of Padua"? If not, that might be added to a footnote. Why, Giano, this is like old times! --Wetman (talk) 13:46, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

• Indeed it is Wetman, your aditions were so nice I gave them top marks on that silly rate this page thing. I gave it full marks and clicked "I am highly knowledgeable about this topic" twice yesterday, so its looking pretty accurate and trustworthy at the moment - one does not really need references at all now. Giacomo Returned 19:34, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Hehe! Johnbod (talk) 19:47, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

\

Goodness, Giano, there certainly is a look of old Scrotum about it. Something about the camera angle that makes the dome seem to rise over the pediment like a moon, and the combination of a Gothic pinnacle at left with a triumphal arch motif that is so reminiscent of your great-aunt's back entrance-- er, to the Park at Scrotum I mean. --Wetman (talk) 15:39, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

• And of course the Bonqbustiere Archives will prove that John of Padua was none other than Nauseus the Incontinent, 3rd Earl of Scrotum. Giacomo Returned 17:16, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Battle of Cartagena (209 BC)

I am confused about the location of Mago Barca during this battle. Perhaps you understand or perhaps you know of an ancient Roman battle expert. Details are on above article Talk page.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 13:00, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm always in the dark about just what happens during battles. Perhaps an expert is lurking here. Anyone?--Wetman (talk) 16:31, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for reply. Even in the article on Mago Barca it says: Publius Cornelius Scipio the Younger, exploiting the lack of coordination among the Carthaginian generals, and the scattered location of their armies, ended up taking Cartagena in a daring expedition in 209 BC. Mago and his army was 3 days march from Cartagena at that time. I'll keep studying it.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 20:42, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

I do belive I solved the mystery. It turns out the Mago that was in charge of New Carthage was NOT Mago Barca, the brother of Hannibal. Apparently others got confused on this issue also. Now it makes more sense in the old book (chapter 5) I am deciphering. I sure am learning a lot about Scipio Africanus and the Second Punic War. Pretty interesting.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 21:37, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Update on courses and ambassador needs

Hello, Ambassadors!

I wanted to give you one last update on where we are this term, before my role as Online Facilitator wraps up at the end of this week. Already, there are over 800 students in U.S. classes who have signed up on course pages this term. About 40 classes are active, and we're expecting that many more again once all the classes are up and running.

On a personal note, it's been a huge honor to work with so many great Wikipedians over the last 15 months. Thanks so much to everyone who jumped in and decided to give the ambassador concept a try, and double thanks those of you who were involved early on. Your ideas and insights and enthusiasm have been the foundation of the program, and they will be the keys the future of the program.

Courses looking for Online Ambassadors

Still waiting to get involved with a class this term, or ready to take on more? We have seven classes that are already active and need OA support, and eleven more that have course pages started but don't have active students yet. Please consider joining one or more of these pods!

Active courses that really need Online Ambassadors:

• Sociology of Poverty
• Architectural Design
• Introduction to Educational Psychology
• Intro to Mass Communication
• Psychology Seminar
• Theories of the State
• Advanced Media Studies

Courses that may be active soon that need Online Ambassadors:

• Housing and Social Policy
• Anthropology, Wikipedia, and the Media
• History & Systems
• Horror Cinema
• Digital Media... just bits in a box
• Composition I
• Telecommunications Management
• Training Systems
• Stigma: Culture, Deviance, Identity
• Art and Terrorism
• Political Violence and Insurgency

--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 23:15, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Artemis (television series)

The article Artemis (television series) has been proposed for deletion. The proposed-deletion notice added to the article should explain why.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. meco (talk) 16:08, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

PROD reason

No evidence has been provided of where this television series is broadcast or that it actually exists at all.

The content in this article might have been preferable to just remove from Artemis altogether rather than spinning it off into a new article of its own. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 06:17, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

New Page Patrol survey

New page patrol – Survey Invitation Hello Wetman! The WMF is currently developing new tools to make new page patrolling much easier. Whether you  have patrolled many pages or only a few, we now need to  know about your experience. The survey takes only 6 minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other than to assist us in analyzing the results of the survey; the WMF will not use the information to identify you. If this invitation  also appears on other accounts you  may  have, please complete the  survey  once only.  If this has been sent to you in error and you have never patrolled new pages, please ignore it. Please click HERE to take part. Many thanks in advance for providing this essential feedback. You are receiving this invitation because you  have patrolled new pages. For more information, please see NPP Survey. Global message delivery 13:51, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Titbit of lunacy and Fidelity

The para beginning ["According to.." here; the next one keeps up the standard. No doubt it's an RS. Johnbod (talk) 20:25, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Do you have anything to add to Fidelity (art and symbolism); I've done some quick points. We don't seem to have a Category:Virtues. Johnbod (talk) 13:48, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Dear Wetman,

I and a colleague have edited a Wikipedia article as part of a class assignment, on the following topic Privacy Policy

Could you please comment on our edit and indicate your opinion of the edit? Any commentary is useful. The assignment is due oct.31 so it would be great if you could give us some input before that thank you, (Kanesham 14:33, 28 October 2011 (UTC)) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kanesham (talk • contribs)

Otium

This is my latest article. Feel free to make any improvements. --Doug Coldwell ^talk 18:51, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Expanded article. Any ideas for a DYK hook?--Doug Coldwell ^talk 11:36, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Doug, that may be your best article yet.--Wetman (talk) 19:12, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks...--Doug Coldwell ^talk 19:21, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Possibility of a Good Article with a little more work?--Doug Coldwell ^talk 22:17, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

It now has a Class C rating on the WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome project and WikiProject Latin project.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 22:17, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

I've made it more concise. Does it need more "fine tuning"? Good Article possibility?--Doug Coldwell ^talk 16:29, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

How do I get an reevaluation through the WikiProject Latin and WikiProject Classical and Rome to get a possible B-Class rating and perhaps a rating in "importance"?--Doug Coldwell ^talk 21:34, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

Answered.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 13:52, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Any ideas for further improvement on the article? Thanks.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 19:08, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

USEP discussion

You may be interested in a discussion about the future and the growth of the US education program along with the future of the Wikipedia Ambassador Project here. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 04:11, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Societé Royale de Papyrologie

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A tag has been placed on Societé Royale de Papyrologie requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an article with no content whatsoever, or whose contents consist only of external links, a "See also" section, book references, category tags, template tags, interwiki links, a rephrasing of the title, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. JC ^{Talk to me} _{My contributions} 06:00, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

John Vanderpoel

Thank you for your excellent suggestion that an article be created for John Vanderpoel. Another user saw your note on my talk page and created the article, and I expanded it. It is scheduled to appear on DYK in a few hours. Thanks again! MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 10:35, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

When I ran a search here, I was impressed with the number of American artists who studied with him. Good work! Adult culture is beginning to find its weight at Wikipedia. --Wetman (talk) 17:29, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia Stories Project

Aloha!

My name is Victor and I work with the Wikimedia Foundation, the non-profit organization that supports Wikipedia. We're chronicling the inspiring stories of the Wikipedia community around the world, including those from readers, editors, and donors. Stories are absolutely essential for any non-profit to persuade new people to support the cause, and we know the vast network of people who use Wikipedia have so much to share.

Until this year, Wikipedia has largely relied upon personal appeals from founder Jimmy Wales to drive our annual fundraising efforts. While effective, these appeals don't convey the incredible diversity of people who've come to rely upon Wikipedia every day.

I was referred to you by Philippe Beaudette, who had noticed that you had a great line on your userpage:

"I went to Harvard, but you'd never know it: I'm surely not still running on the education I received back then."

I'd really like the opportunity to interview you to tell your story, with the possibility of using it in our materials, on our community websites, or as part of this year’s fundraiser to encourage others to support Wikipedia.

I'm hoping you will elaborate on your story with me, either over the phone, by Skype, by facebook, by email, or any means you like. Please let me know if you're inclined to take part in the Wikipedia Stories Project and we'll set up a good time to discuss further.

Thank you,

Victor user:victorgrigas vgrigas@wikimedia.org

Victor, I treasure my anonymity at Wikipedia, every bit as much as I want to preserve a good reputation here for my pseudonym Wetman. The possibility that an extended quote from me, with a personal snapshot, might be used as part of the Wikimedia fund-raising campaign, fills me with dread. My father taught us all quite early on, that if we expected credit for everything we were going to do in life, we'd be bitterly disappointed again and again. That one receives no pay, that one owns no article, gets no credit, is part of the zen of Wikipedia: bracing and wholesome.

So, ask me what you will, right here, and I'll try to give a frank answer.

Hoping you'll understand my position.

Wetman (talk) 20:16, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification

Hi. When you recently edited Daniel Willard Streeter, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page George Putnam (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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George Haven Putnam was intended.--Wetman (talk) 17:38, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Abraham Lincoln's patent

Wetman,
Could you look over this article for copyediting, if you have time?
Thanks!--Doug Coldwell ^talk 15:56, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

I made just one very trivial edit. That's an interesting subject.--Wetman (talk) 01:38, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 12:31, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Wesley Critz George

The article Wesley Critz George has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

I would use BLP PROD, but this is an old article with no sources. Searching for sources appears to only bring up links to the book and mirrors of wikipedia.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. aprock (talk) 01:16, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I have deleted the proposal for deletion, having added references from the first of numerous pages concerning W.C. George that result from a search, not at Google, but at Google Scholar. Articles on authors are not deleted from Wikipedia simply because their ideas are distasteful. The financial support for W.C. George and the sources from whom it came need to be added to this article.--Wetman (talk) 18:03, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Methodists!

I discovered this little architectural gem on my travels through Oxfordshire last year, and thought it worth a page, so have just completed Burford Methodist Church; it could do with a little extra or at least some tidying from your hand. Happy New Year. Giacomo Returned 17:49, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Buon capo d'anno, Giano! Jolly interesting facade. I inserted "colossal" for the pilasters: you should add a statement about the use of a (Baroque) colossal order here. I tweaked the links. Who is this Jordan fellow? How did he come to commission such a front I wonder? --Wetman (talk) 18:49, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

No one seems to know who he was, his only claim to fame seems to have been building his little, but remarkable house in Burford. What was very interesting when we went inside was that it's full of market type antique stalls selling maps (some 16th century ones)- for under £1,000 they seemed genuine too - I do hope so! Giacomo Returned 22:39, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

• Only I could write about a Methodist church, not mention religion,and still have war break out [4]! Trouble just follows me about :-) 23:51, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Giano, you and Methodism are bound to be an explosive mixture imo. But you are clearly in the right here. Talking of which, it has led me to Wentworth Woodhouse, where the transition between the Baroque west and Palladian East front had become garbled. I've re-instated a sentence from 2007 & messed about a bit, but could someone with the books please check it out. Thanks. Hope you are well Wetman. Johnbod (talk) 17:46, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

I've made some edits intended to clarify the building history of Wentworth Woodhouse. A photo of Ralph Tunnicliffe's "wing" would be a great addition. I shall be at the other end of Yorkshire in May: perhaps I can manage it. --Wetman (talk) 18:38, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! If you ever get a chance to see the Dan Cruickshank tv prog mentioned at the bottom, it is well above the average of its sort, & these days about the only way to see inside. Johnbod (talk) 18:45, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

I avoid Wentworth Woodhouse for a very good reason. The very name sends me into a fury of rage. I find myself unable to form a sensible paragraph concerning it. I have some amazing private photographs taken in the 1920s and 30s; it was a senseless, wanton and vindictive act of class war, but a sensible letter to the owner may get you inside. Giacomo Returned 19:39, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

I share those feelings: I hope my paragraphs concerning that action are neutral enough in tone. The Socialist coal board also undermined Erddig during the same time and almost succeeded in destroying it. --Wetman (talk) 19:47, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Like everywhere else in the UK there were several uncategorized photos, from the 50,000 (is it) still uncategorized from the Geograph donation, & I have added these to Commons, & several to the article. But all are external, & of the East Front or follies. Does Pastiglia take your fancy? Johnbod (talk) 05:20, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Dear Wetman, I am a newbie! This is my first message. I found you on the "Ambassadors" list. I'm a professor of art history and would like to do a project with my students this semester to edit the article, "1795-1820 in Fashion." Would you be our mentor? I chose you because I noticed you had participated in editing that page before. I'll also email you to be sure you get my note. Many thanks, Amelia Rauser (Arauser)Arauser (talk) 19:49, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

request for mentoring! Art history students working on fashion 1795-1820

Wetman, I see (after leaving my last message) that you don't accept email, so I'll watch this page or see if you leave me a message on this site. If you like, you may email me at: amelia.rauser@fandm.edu Many thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arauser (talk • contribs) 19:55, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Hi! here I am. How can I help?--Wetman (talk) 22:08, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Editing Fashion 1795-1820

Is this the right forum/location to talk with you? Let me know. Meanwhile... First, my current idea is to have the students work to improve the Fashion 1795-1820 page. It needs more inline citations, and once we get looking at it we might well see other things, too. I don't want to step on the community's toes by just making the changes. Guidance on etiquette would be helpful. Second, should we register as a "pod" even though this will just be a relatively minor edit project? Third, once we decide what changes we'd like to make, would you be willing to mentor us on the process of editing and the conventions? I think it will be a really helpful exercise for the students to pay close attention to how a subject is discussed and what is involved in making an article scholarly, neutral, and well-supported. Maybe we could have a video chat or two with you. (I teach at Franklin & Marshall College and we don't yet have a campus ambassador.) Arauser (talk) 02:24, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Can we begin right here? My sense is that an actively improving article acts as a better magnet for informed interest than a "pod". My most basic advice is, not to edit into an article what you 'know', which may be objected to as "Original Research". Instead, begin with entering the gist of an excellent article, referencing it with the <ref name=""/> convention, perhaps including a particularly succinct quote, of the period or later, that illuminates a point. Go to 1795–1820 in fashion now, and put it on your watchlist, so that you'll be alerted whenever changes are made. Scan the talkpage, Talk:1795–1820 in fashion, to get up to speed on issues concerning that article, and use it for focused questions for the group of editors actively interested in the subject. I've put the article on my own Watchlist, to join the discussion there, as well as here. So we're begun, as simply as that! --Wetman (talk) 19:37, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you! I will think about all this and get started as you suggest. More soon. Arauser (talk) 14:22, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Meanwhile, here's an opinion essay by Mike Christie, which gives some general context for "Wikipedia in Academe – and vice versa". --Wetman (talk) 02:52, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Williamite

I was about to add that Petworth House was an example of Williamite architecture, but then read it and saw that it does not quite fit the "compact" description - so cannot be Williamite; or can it. Secondly, while I cannot find the term in any of my books - allthough there's plent about the architecture of this period, it occurred to me that perhaps Huis ten Bosch is the prototype? What do you think? Giacomo Returned 13:43, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

"Williamite" isn't a style designation I ever hear or very much like: Wrennish? I added "compact" to the style description thinking of Belton House and Stoke Edith. There are few English counterparts to Huis ten Bosch. And Petworth, that's too French. But, thinking of Dutch prototypes for the "William-and-Mary style" or "Late Stuart Domestic Architecture", etc, how about Het Loo? if judged block by block, it's Williamite in every sense!--Wetman (talk) 16:16, 15 January 2012 (UTC).

Possibly, but I was thinking that Huis ten Bosch's corps de logis [5] had a passing look of Belton - with a little imagination - especialy with the cupola. Giacomo Returned 17:43, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh yes indeed! Quite right you are, Giacomo.--Wetman (talk) 19:54, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

History of dance Project

Dear Wetman, I am a professor at Franklin & Marshall College, a colleague of Amelia Rauser, who mentioned she had also contacted you. We are both interested in creating Wikipedia assignments for our courses. In my case, that course is History of Western Theatre Dance (Renaissance to the present). I had contacted another online ambassador who seemed rather difficult to work with, so I asked Amelia about her experience and she said you were pleasant and helpful. So, I'm wondering if you can take on another mentorship? Here's the assignment I've created for my students:

- - - - Remember that our course focus is the History of Western Theatre Dance, renaissance to the present, which is the framework you should maintain when undertaking this assignment.

A. Look at the Wikipedia page on History of Dance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History of dance. Read it closely and evaluate it based on these observations: 1) Citations 2) Sources 3) Focus (styles, people, dance types, geographic locations, time periods, context, etc.) a) What is covered? b) What is missing? 4) Text and visual image balance 5) Depth of coverage 6) Links 7) Anything else that seems important to you to note.

B. and C. Follow any two of the links in this article (choose links appropriate to our course). Apply the same set of questions and criteria listed above to evaluating each of those pages.

D. Create a summary statement assessing the Wikipedia coverage of Western theatre-dance history based on your observations. You may follow the question/criteria list given above or articulate your assessment in another format.

E. Create a plan for your contribution to improving this coverage. Your plan must be discussed and approved by the professor to ensure that it is realistic and adequate to the expectations of the assignment. Examples: 1) Contribute 5-7 citations to substantiate (or not) claims in the articles you have selected. 2) Provide information on a red link (red links are areas Wikipedia would like to cover but has not yet had sufficient information to do so). 3) Fill out a subject covered too superficially or not at all (not even in a red link) in Wikipedia. 4) Change and/or correct information in a current article that is incomplete or inaccurate. 5) Something else, of your own devising.

Calendar: Jan. 26 - Bring in your notes and comments on your initial Wikipedia research, part A of assignment, with thoughts on what you’ll focus on for parts B and C. Although these are notes, prepare to hand in a copy to the teacher. Jan. 31 – Start work on completing your contributions to part A. Feb. 9 - Bring in notes for parts B and C of Wikipedia assignment. Again, submit a copy of the notes to the teacher. Feb. 23 - Part D due. This should be a formal, well-written paper of about 2-3 pages in length. Mar. 20 – Part E plan is due. You should have undertaken considerable research so that you know if this plan is realizable. Apr. 10 – Part E information in fully realized form due to the teacher today.

- - - - Thanks for your thoughts and feedback! Lynndance (talk) 00:38, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Too much preparation and not enough doing, that's my thought. It's the doing that's interesting. I'm assuming that the A to E Steps complement your course of reading and lectures/discussion on Western Theater Dance. Could you tell me the textbook[s] the course follows? Is this more of a series of lectures or a seminar discussion? I'd suggest you collapse these assignment parts, moving through them faster.

Why not incorporate these steps in sync with coursework:

• Declare right away that all class members are full members of the international academic community: discuss what expectations and responsibilities this entails. Have them read Wikipedia:Civility and Wikipedia:Etiquette and follow up some of the links in those articles. Ask them to select one particularly helpful further link and recommend it to other students at the following session. Discuss academic responsibilities.
• Read Wikipedia articles History of dance, Medieval dance, Renaissance dance, History of ballet. Have students select the more or less specific area of Western Theater Dance that's already most interesting to them, find and isolate the relevant Wikipedia articles and hand in a list of them (which helps you assess their comprehension of "relevance"). Specific to Wikipedia: students should familiarize themselves with the Page history and read through the Talkpage associated with each of "their" articles. Permit students to change, enlarge or reduce "their" group of articles as coursework progresses.
• Group project: copy the box Genealogical tree of Dance and, as the course progresses, emend it to include unrepresented genres that are at least as important as, for example, Hip-Hop, and indicate their "genealogical descent" lines. Search for and identify Wikipedia articles covering these genres.
• First Wiki assignment: Taking a) a chapter of the course text b) any well-presented article, incorporate the gist of it into the relevant Wikipedia article, with a reference following the <ref></ref> convention: students must be prepared for online criticism. This is the best way to start editing Wikipedia: beginning what what a student 'knows' leaves her open for criticisms of Wikipedia:Original Research.

Students' results should be shared with the whole group, perhaps. Let me know what you think of this.--Wetman (talk) 13:46, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

editing fashion history articles

Hi Wetman, I read your response to Lynn's query with interest. I like your idea of asking each student to compose an addition to the Wikipedia article based on a single essay they read, citing that essay as a reference. It makes sense that this is a solid way for a beginner to get started. It seems that each student should then be logged in and registered as an individual contributor, doing her own work (and receiving her own criticism from the global wiki community), rather than uploading all our edits as a group under one contributor name. Yes? Arauser (talk) 14:22, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, exactly so; that's the best way to begin. And the zen of Wikipedia (and of the world) is, criticism is lavish, praise scant. If a good job's been done, one learns to praise oneself.--Wetman (talk) 16:35, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

Mildred Seydell

Can you look at the lead sentence and see if this is proper grammer. See Talk. Thanks. If you don't know, who might?--Doug Coldwell ^talk 20:44, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Millet's The Gleaners

Does anyone know about a black and white print of the gleaners? Robinbird256 (talk) 03:19, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, Millet's well-known etching of the subject preceded the painting.--Wetman (talk) 04:07, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

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