User talk:Любослов Езыкин

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Welcome![edit]

Hello, Любослов Езыкин, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions.

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Again, welcome!—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); February 24, 2011; 18:59 (UTC)

{{Proto}}[edit]

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I tried many times to edit a very helpful template for linguistic articles, but template code is a little difficult for me, I can’t get it.

I just need {{proto|ISO 639 code or full name|word|meaning}}, it looks like {{lang}} and {{etymology}} templates.

For example {{proto|sla|dva|two}} should make Proto-Slavic *dva 'two'. Explanation:

  • the language name should be prefixed with Proto- and link to its wiki article if it exists,
  • the word should be in italic, in unicode, have an asterisk before it, and link to its wiktionary article if it exists;
  • the meaning should have the single quotes as it's accepted in linguistics for glosses.

I will sincerely appreciate everybody who would help me to edit this template and to make the similar one in the Russian Wikipedia.

Not my field - can I suggest reading Help:Template? posting at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Templates? Maybe someone else will suggest other ideas - I'll leave the help me up.  Ronhjones  (Talk) 23:47, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
I've got it doing what you want. There may be a more graceful way of coding it, but {{proto|sla|dva|two}} will now appear as you wanted it: Proto-Slavic *dva "two", variable one will control both the description, and the language appendix at wiktionary that gets linked, and variable two chooses the page in the appendix. I think that is what you wanted, but it does not check to see if the wiktionary article exists, so for instance Proto-Slavic *monty "monty" will link to a blank wiktionary page. I don't know if there is a way to check if a wiktionary page exists. Monty845 21:37, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for your attention, it seems simpler than I thought. I've just added some common Proto-languages, will it work with them? Now I suppose a link to the Wiktionary is not so necessary as different reconstructed proto-forms exist, and the Wiktionary is scanty, better to delete it from the template at all. As far as I know it is impossible to check the existence of a dictionary entry as #ifexist does not work with interwikis.--Luboslov Yezykin (talk) 00:23, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Great, it works!--Luboslov Yezykin (talk) 00:30, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Non-Latin Name[edit]

Your user name is OK. but could I ask you to read WP:SIG#Non-Latin, Thanks  Ronhjones  (Talk) 23:52, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

  • Hm, I set up my signature in Latin very long ago, in Cyrillic it can appear only in technical pages such as history and so on. I firstly signed up in the Russian Wikipedia and it automatically registered me here with Cyrillic. How better transliterate my name is shown on my user page.--Luboslov Yezykin (talk) 00:03, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Russia task forces[edit]

Hello! You often make important contributions to the topics related to Russian language. That's why I believe you might be interested in joining WikiProject Russia and some of the project's task forces. In particular, I suggest you to sign up for the Language and literature of Russia, Demographics and ethnography of Russia and History of Russia. The full list of task forces may be found on the main page of WikiProject Russia, top right corner, or in the Template:WikiProject Russia/Navbox.

Also, here is an invitation for you to give an interview for the Signpost newspaper:

  • The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Russia for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering.

GreyHood Talk 18:56, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

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Proto-Slavic[edit]

Concerning the series of reverts and semi-reverts between us at Proto-Slavic:

  • I don't have Channon (1971) on hand anymore, but until we can establish that I was an idiot when I included the information from it (like if you have a copy of it yourself), I don't think we can bank on the idea that *eu couldn't change to *u, especially since we're talking about a language where *oi became *ě. If you have a source that says otherwise, or that *ju was an intermediate stage, I'm open-minded.
  • I thought putting the *oi's changes to *ě and *i on the same line might draw people to the footnote a little more strongly, it's otherwise a little confusing/technically inaccurate. This is a minor thing and not worth fighting about if you feel strongly about the way you've arranged it.
  • It seems weird to say that *ě derived "either from *oi or *ai." Even if it's unclear whether the phonetic character of the merger of Proto-Balto-Slavic *o and *a was more a-like or o-like, there is surely a regular way of transcribing it (which I believe is *oi). Saying it is the source of either of those makes it seem as though it's a tossup as to whether the o-a merger occurred before or after the monophthongization of diphthongs, which I'm pretty sure is false. Thoughts? — Ƶ§œš¹ [ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ] 03:29, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
  • Sorry, that I have not answered immediately, anyway:
  1. I have used wrong verb so it has lead you to misunderstanding. I mean "couldn't" is not about linguistic ability (yes, in Latin *eu has changed to u) but about the real fact. *eu has not changed to a simple u as it has changed to ju~i̯u. So if you write *eu → u you are just simply wrong.
  2. I do not clearly understand your point, but maybe it's better to move the explanation about oi* → i from the footnotes to the text.
  3. Before I did my "either … or" edit I've tried to clear this subject to myself, but the sole thing I could find that different authors are using different notations, and there is no agreement between linguists as well as a clear explanation of this differences (though I have some guesses). For example (only for English authors): Cubberly (Russian: a linguistic introduction, 2002, p. 22) uses *oi (as well as *ai), Schenker (The Slavonic Languages, 1993, p. 71) uses the "āi+ăi" mix *ā̆i, Lunt (Old Church Slavonic Grammar, 2001, p. 199) uses *ai. But more often in other books it's said that "ě derived either from *oi or *ai", as, I suppose, authors do not want to sort out this hypothetical issue. Because they don't know the phonetic value, they just know cognates from other IE languages (and these cognates contain "either oi or ai"). So I think we must reflect this disagreement to the reader (it would be better if we explain it also) and can not just chose one variant because you think it's "surely a regular way" but there is not such.--Luboslov Yezykin (talk) 13:21, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
  1. Do you have a source that backs that up?
  2. We can have a note right below the list of vowels. I'll demonstrate and you tell me if you think it works well.
  3. If you are trying to represent scholarly disagreement as to the character of this particular Proto-Balto-Slavic vowel, I don't think that is the best way to do it. It makes it confusing, as I've explained. Elsewhere in the article, this vowel is represented as *oi, and I think we should be consistent. The best place to put that sort of parsing is in the last paragraph of the "Split from Indo-European" section, which briefly covers the merger.
Ƶ§œš¹ [ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ] 15:14, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
  1. Of course, there are such sources. In every scientific description of Proto-Slavic/Old Slavonic/Slavic languages you can find this change, it's a well-known fact. Here are some examples - Sussex, Cubberly, 2006: 34 and Schenker, 1993: 71 (from the source list in the article). I'm surprised that you don't know it (if you're editing the article "Proto-Slavic", you surely must know it).
  2. OK. I don't insist on the form. It's just important not to delete this significant peculiarity at all.
  3. The problem is not only in the disagreement between linguists. Actually it is unknown what quality had this pre-yat' diphthong in Late Proto-Slavic. We, of course, can accept that ăi, āi, ŏi, ōi all changed to oi, and use this notation throughout the article in spite of its conventionality. But we should expand or rewrite the "from IE to EPS" and "from EPS to LPS" parts (not only about the merger). Now it is very obscure and insufficient. After the reading of the article it is difficult to comprehend (for a reader) how and from what all these vowels came and what it all means. Maybe later I'll try to add some information.--Luboslov Yezykin (talk) 17:19, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
After taking a second look, I realized that Channon (1971) isn't the source of the *ou > *u entry, it's Padgett (2003), which I do have access to. Here is the relevant quote, with notation altered to fit with the transcription system at Proto-Slavic

"Of particular interest here is the new high central unrounded vowel *y, derived from *ū. This vowel resulted from a chain shift affecting Late Common Slavic whereby the diphthongs *ou and *eu shifted to *u, while former *ū shifted to *y... [Given a shift of *ou to *u,] Common Slavic faced two logical possibilities. First, former *u could remain unchanged, so that the shift would lead to a neutralization of the contrast between *u and former *ou... Alternatively, contrast could be preserved by shifting former *u to a new place, as in (36b). In Common Slavic, it was the latter that occurred..." (p. 71)

So, according to Padgett, both of these diphthongs changed to *u, which explains the existence of *y.
Still, it's possible that Padgett is saying something different from the authors you mention. I don't have access to either source. Do you think you could quote from them as I have done for you? — Ƶ§œš¹ [ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ] 18:08, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Surely he (or the editor of his work) has make a mistake and just missed j. In all the cases where IE has *eu in Slavic there is ju/ю not u/у. Not only "my" authors saying it but all slavists. This is a bare linguistic fact. For example, already mentioned Cubberly, Russian: a linguistic introduction, 2002, p. 22.--Luboslov Yezykin (talk) 19:04, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Hmmm, the source you've provided says it became *(j)u, which must be different from *ju. This change is under the header that explains the process is one of monophthongization, but *eu > *ju is not monophthongization. Maybe the (j) represents a variety of "soft" realizations of a preceding consonant, only some of which are *j. Does Cubberly or anyone else elaborate on this? — Ƶ§œš¹ [ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ] 19:22, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Separately from your important remark I've also thought over a little about this thing. J is not a vowel so, from the other point, eu merged with ou/au, but the former being after the soft consonants. It indeed became a monophthong (that is u) but also palatalized any preceding consonant. I suppose that Padgett could miss j intentionally. And in the article j should not be missed but just put into the brackets - (j)u. OK? P.S. See also Lunt (2001), p. 201.--Luboslov Yezykin (talk) 20:36, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
As for oi. After ŏ ō merged with ā ă, only two āi/ăi became possible from four IE diphthongs. Then ā shortened as a part of a diphthong [citation needed here, but now I've forgot in what work it was said]. And finally in Late Proto-Slavic ă rounded to o. So oi-notation has got some sense for me.--Luboslov Yezykin (talk) 21:03, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I think *(j)u is a good choice, though we should provide a note about what (j) means and cite a source that explicitly lays this meaning out. — Ƶ§œš¹ [ãːɱ ˈfɹ̠ˤʷɪ̃ə̃nlɪ] 21:41, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

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Response[edit]

Hey. I responded to your comments here--http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk/Humanities#Jewish_Population_in_Russia_Proper_in_1914. Please respond whenever you can. Also, I have a question--do you know of any sources which state the Jewish population for each SSR (Soviet Socialist Republic) in 1945, 1949, 1950, or some other time in the late 1940s? There was no Soviet census for 20 years between 1939 and 1959, so I'm wondering what the Soviet Jewish population looked like right after World War II. Thank you very much. Futurist110 (talk) 03:44, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

One of your statements in your response was unclear. Can you please clarify it? (I told you which statement on that Reference Desk page). Thank you very much. Futurist110 (talk) 19:53, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
I responded to you again. Futurist110 (talk) 22:41, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

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Reverting 'name' back to 'term' on Kievan Rus' page[edit]

Привет, Любослов. I've reverted your change to 'name' from 'term'. I have no particular interest in which is used but, in its context, 'term' is the correct term (pardon the pun). The expression in English is, "The term was coined...", not "The name was coined...". Hope you don't mind. Cheers! EDIT: Scratch that. Someone else already beat me to it. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:04, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Oh my god![edit]

Somebody has corrected my Russian! Thanks. I only took Russian 101, and we never even got to plural or instrumental. Vo mojei familii my ne howorime po-Moskowski, ale "po-naszomu". μηδείς (talk) 21:44, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

No bother. I just tried to help you to know Russian a little bit better. When you know your own mistakes, you do not make them again next time.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 12:15, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Average computer configuration by years[edit]

Answered (finally!). See Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2013 September 3#Average computer configuration by years. --220 of Borg 08:32, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Soslan[edit]

Hi Luboslov, thanks for making that article so much better. Azylber (talk) 16:29, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

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September 2013[edit]

Information icon Hello, I'm Ukrained2012. I noticed that you recently removed some content from Russkiy Mir Foundation without explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry: I restored the removed content. If you would like to experiment, you can use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks! Ukrained2012 (talk) 15:05, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Where did she put the pepper?[edit]

I have a story you might enjoy. My grandmother, who was Rusyn (born in what is now Закарпатская область) used to cook at the Church hall on Saturdays with women from the homeland. They all spoke Rusyn, but there are differnt dialects, and some words differ in placement of stress. The word for pepper is пóпер in her dialect, but her best friend, Anna, accented that word on the final vowel, not the o. One day Anna was cooking soup, and wanted the pepper, which another lady who had already gone home had been using. She couldn't find where the other woman had put it. So, in her accent, instead of asking everyone, "Где пóпер дела?" she asked them, "Где попéр дела?" That was 30 years ago, and I still laugh every time I hear it. μηδείς (talk) 00:45, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, no offence, but frankly, I don't get it. Can you explain? In Russian there are also many words with two stresses (classic tvórog vs.tvoróg etc.) and this fact does not look funny.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 12:10, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
Sure. What does "Где пoпердела" mean in Russian? That is how she pronounced "Где пóпер дела". μηδείς (talk) 21:43, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
In Russian it's поперде́ла /pəpʲɪrˈdʲelə/ vs. попе́р дела /pɐˈpʲer‿ˈdʲelə/. Close but not enough. But now I understand. :)--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 13:32, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
Oh, interesting, so you do use poper as a word? I thought that was only Rusyn. The point was not that the two expressions are said identically in Rusyn. They aren't. The point was that in Anna' dialect where'd she put the pepper was the sam as the rude question in everyone else's dialect. Well, glad you did get the joke. μηδείς (talk) 17:06, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
No, only pérets. But I suppose it can be in dialects (I should check). It does not sound rude or funny in Russian as the different stress obscures the humorous similarity. I do not know what is the stress in Rusyn poperdety. Do you? Only on penult or antipenult? :)--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 17:30, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
In Old Russian there was пъперъ, поперъ, пьпьръ, пеперъ, which finally became перъ, from which перец (suffix -ец). Пряный "spicy" also came from older пепряный "peppered" (in today Russian the latter is перчёный from перчить "to pepper").--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 17:46, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
It depends on the dialect, and since the vowels are not reduced (no akane or ikane); the meaning is usually clear regardless of stress. The original situation was free stress from common slavonic, but there is a strong tendency toward penultimate stress, which forms an isogloss with Polish and Eastern Slovak. Some examples are in Rusyn, the Russian она and его are wóna and jého, and the -овать infinitives end in -owáti with penultimate stress, unreduced vowels, and в is pronounced /w/ instead of /v/ before a and o (it can also be /v/ and /f/ in other circumstances which I haven't analyzed--probably free variation to some extent. The greetings at Easter are: "Hrístos voskrés" "Sláwite jého!", so you can see the stress is not always penultimate (although this is like an influence of the liturgy, obviously, and initial stress in commands is a feature of PIE). μηδείς (talk) 19:16, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
Oops, that's ...vo istinu voskres. Slawite jeho is in response to Hristos rozhdajetsja. μηδείς (talk) 00:51, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Barnstar![edit]

The Citation Barnstar The Citation Barnstar
For your help at the Language Reference Desk getting sources for mulignan μηδείς (talk) 02:00, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
Thanks to GoogleBooks! ;) --Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 11:32, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

I don't think you get enough barnstars[edit]

Tireless Contributor Barnstar Hires.gif The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
I am giving you this one because it spins. But you deserve it for your work at the Ref Desks. μηδείς (talk) 04:26, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

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