User talk:Abecedare

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search


Ramanuja page[edit]

Hi just saw you undid my changes for Ramanuja? May I know the reason? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 01:10, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

@RamanujaDasa: I had outlined my reasons in the edit-summary, but to expand:
  1. the website you cited is not a reliable source for the claim,
  2. the claim (Ramanuja "is the first person to fight for equal rights among all human beings"), as most claims about superlatives (first, best, greatest), is a redflag assertion that either requires an extraordinarily solid source to support it, or we need to attribute the opinion to the persons/groups who hold it. And the latter would be justified only if the opinion and the persons holding it are notable enough as judged by whether secondary reliable sources cite that opinion. As an example, Donald Bradman's opinions of Tendulkar's batting is worth noting in the Sachin Tendulkar article; what Barack Obama or Narendra Modi think of it, if anything, is not.
Abecedare (talk) 01:36, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

I am confused now. In the same wikipedia page it is already mentioned the below: He treated all people as equal without considering their castes. At that time low caste people were prohibited inside the temples. He led the low caste people into the temples in many places. Due to this, he is praised as a "social reformer".[9]

Is it not the proof for him being the first person to fight for equal rights? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:52, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

The question is not whether Ramanuja was a social reformer with respect to caste and access to temples. That may well be true (although the current source cited in the article is pretty poor for the purpose). But that does not make him the first person to fight for equal rights. If you want to include the latter claim (which is surely false!), you'll at least need a reliable source that actually says that, and then attribute that opinion to the source. Abecedare (talk) 17:36, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

But it is well documented that no one fought for equal rights in the history before Ramanuja. You may say it as social reforming, but the same thing is called "Civil Rights", "Equal Rights" in west.
More over the most authentic acharya and great scholar like His Holiness Sri Chinna Jeeyar Swamiji stamps the authority of Ramanuja based on all the available scriptures.
It is already a big shame that Ramanuja name and his works been submerged and we need to fight for it.
— Preceding unsigned comment added by RamanujaDasa (talkcontribs) 16:03, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

@RamanujaDasa:, I don't find the claim, "no one fought for equal rights in the history before Ramanuja" to be credible but we can't, and don't really have to, settle this debate amongst ourselves since wikipedia content goes by what reliable sources say. Since you believe the point is well-documented, it should be easy to back up the claim with such sources and we can continue the discussion at that point. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 19:02, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

As per the reliable sources section of wikipedia, His Holiness Sri Chinna Jeeyar Swamiji words are to be taken as authority. I guess we are not deciding it among ourselves. We are just debating the denial of the truth about Ramanuja's works. Also, the same sources that you have agreed upon for social reformer comments hold good here too. When you say that something is not credible, on what authority we can say it. History says that. We cannot deny the history. If one does not understand/see from the history, we can generally speak and impress on their own belief. By the way, either of us are not scholars or experts in this matter. Why don't we just listen to the experts and scholars like His Holiness Chinna Jeeyar and other likes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RamanujaDasa (talkcontribs) 16:50, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

@RamanujaDasa: If you want a third opinion on whether is an adequate source for the claim "Ramanuja is the father of Equality. He is the first person to fight for equal rights among all human beings.", you can ask at wikipedia's reliable sources noticeboard. Abecedare (talk) 17:27, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Closure of case[edit]

Can I ask why you closed the case without action and without enforcing policies? The precedent is now clear. AusLondonder (talk) 03:41, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

@AusLondonder:, as I stated in my summary and as many uninvolved users pointed in the thread, editors at the article talk page could have assumed good faith and been politer. That said, their conduct hardly rose to the level that would invite admin sanctions in the form of blocks or even trouting. Keeping the ANI thread open any longer would just make the exchanges more rancorous and uncivil, which is neither good for the editors involved or for wikipedia. So I sincerely urge you to accept the community acknowledgement of your contributions and good faith, and move on. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 03:49, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Ancient India[edit]

Dear Abecedare,

Firstly, thanks for warning me. I will use article's talkpage before editing here after.

But my point in my previous edit is: In the Ancient India section,for my summary on mentioning of rivers;

A simple question, if any one talks about a child, don't they need to know about his/her parents? In the same way, when one talks about a civilization, don't they need to know about the river which led the civilization to flourish? Because if there is no river, there is no civilization, as there is no mother, there is no child. Here, Ancient India is the child and Sarasvati River is the mother.

Thank You, Abecedare. -- BodduLokesh (talk) 15:00, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

@BodduLokesh: I hope you noticed that that Kautilya3 already added the name of Sarasvati river in the section, and as I commented on the talk-page I have no objections to that part of your edit. This also illustrates the main advantage of using talk-pages to discern where the disagreement (if any) lies, and come up with solutions agreeable to all (and consistent with sources and wikipedia policies!). If you haven't yet, you should take a look at the recommended bold-revert-discuss edit-strategy, which I find very helpful when dealing with other good-faith editors. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 15:21, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
Instead of the Aryans, it's now the IVC which has become "the craddle of civilisation"? Essentialism, always essentialism, instead of contingency, complexity, and world-wide systems. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 20:19, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
Yup. And actual history is too rough and bumpy to serve as a tool. Needs to be shaped and sharpened to suit ones purpose. Abecedare (talk) 02:24, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
@Joshua Jonathan: The Aryans were the IVC. Don't you get it? :) Kautilya3 (talk) 11:06, 9 May 2015 (UTC)
@Kautilya3:, you just blew my mind with that! It's like The Sixth Sense, only with "I speak Sanksrit now" instead of "I see dead people", and IVCers realizing at the end that they were Aryans all along. :) Abecedare (talk) 19:07, 9 May 2015 (UTC)


If nothing happens at the ANI thread in, say, the next 12 hours then I think OccultZone's deployment of the sanctions template might have to be escalated to the enforcement pages. I was hoping that some admin might use their discretion and save us all more work but, yet again, it seems that they run scared of India-related stuff. I'm not sure that I blame them! - Sitush (talk) 05:07, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

Yes it is disappointing. I can see though how from an outside perspective disputes over whether an idol can be dated to 400 AD or not; whether a particular Tamil poem is due or not; why Swami Vivekananda and Tamils or Aludaya Pillaiyar Tiruchabai viruttam do not meet the notability standards; ... can appear non-obvious and even esoteric issues to editors not familiar with the subject area (and I intentionally avoided calling upon admins active in WPINDIA, to avoid canvassing/involved concerns). Lets wait and see if someone takes up the issue; would like to avoid AE because this issue should be resolvable using normal process and simply applying universal rules such as WP:DE. Abecedare (talk) 05:19, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

List of schools[edit]

Hi I understand your concern.
1. I only linked to schools which DONT have their own website.
2. I have nothing to do with that website. It is NOT mine.
3. I am cognitive of the fact that they are nofollow tags. Since this isnt for marketing, its irrelevant.

Those links were for the comfort of anybody wanting more in-depth information about those schools; something which for one is impossible to be done on Wikipedia, and secondly would make Wiki into a directory of sorts, which is majorly against policy.

Hope you will understand.

Highfever2015 (talk) 02:34, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

@Highfever2015:, the editing looked suspicious because almost all your edits involved adding links to website, but I can see how those edits could be made in good faith. Don't worry about it; just don't add further links to the website since it doesn't qualify as a reliable source on wikipedia (because we don't know who runs it, their editorial policies, and how conscientious they are about verifying the information on their website and keeping it updated. Also their Advertising policy and twitter feed don't engender confidence.)
If you have any further questions about this issue or editing in general, feel free to ask. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 14:55, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Imperial seal of the Mughal Empire[edit]

I'm currently only have little access to the net, and just before this technical problem, a sock of a persistent troublemaker Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Mughal Lohar/Archive arrived and edit warred over the Mughal flag at multiple pages. You interacted with it on Talk:Flag of the Mughal Empire. I think that damage is fixed mostly, but I checked the contributions list and saw that Imperial seal of the Mughal Empire was created. It's fully unsourced but there can be a marginal chance that it might be not a hoax. Anyway see what you can dig up on it or if busy, I'll come back and see it. Also, note Category:Suspected_Wikipedia sockpuppets of Mughal_Lohar which shows the sock's lack of imagination with usernames or its extremely similar pattern of editing; it would be good of you watch out for it too. PS: I just survived three days with no net, I can't believe I'm still sane. -Joel. (Ugog Nizdast (talk)) 09:48, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Mughal Lohar! The good old days are coming back:) I got rid of the page, valid or not blocked editors cannot create articles. --regentspark (comment) 15:09, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
As if the business of proliferating fictional flags was no bad enough, now we have socks involved ?! Thanks RP for cutting the Gordian knot
I had thought that deleting the Mughal flag template would have solved most of the problem, but it hardly seems to have made a dent. The following files still are used in dozens of articles from where they need to be removed (join the posse! pinging @Sitush: for help):
Abecedare (talk) 16:58, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
I've been removing them as and when I find the things - maybe three or four a day. Mughal Lohar, eh? Long time since I saw that name. - Sitush (talk) 17:03, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Refer this link for all articles using it File:Flag of the Mughal Empire.svg#filelinks. - Ninney (talk) 17:23, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. Those lists should contain no mainspace article. Join the clean-up gang. Can use edit-summary, "remove fictional flag; see discussion at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2015 April 30#Template:Country data Mughal Empire and Talk:Flag of the Mughal Empire#Fictional flags redux.3F" if to indicate where this has been discussed before. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 17:45, 18 May 2015 (UTC)


I don't know, Abecedare--you might still squeak by. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Drmies (talk) 11:05, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

LOL! A less likely example of squeaky bum time would be hard to find. - Sitush (talk) 11:33, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Phew he made it! *starts taking down his hair dolls and shrine* (PS congratulations) Mkdwtalk 19:39, 19 May 2015 (UTC)


A bit premature but I have this feeling that the crat chat will be in your favor :) Offline for a bit so an early welcome back to the mop squad! --regentspark (comment) 19:00, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Welcome back[edit]

Abecedare, I'm pleased to be able to reverse my previous decision and restore your administrator privileges after your recent fresh request for adminship. I think someone mentioned this is the first re-adminship after lengthy inactivity and it's quite an impressive vote of confidence from the community at that - happy to have you back! –xenotalk 19:34, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Xeno. Abecedare (talk) 19:36, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Congratulations and Best Wishes.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 19:37, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Support and support! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:41, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Congrats, and thanks for returning! Jusdafax 20:00, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Congratulations, and thank you for stepping up. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 23:51, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Wow, congratulations. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 02:50, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Nihil obstat! Full support! Well done! Congratulations! Jianhui67 TC 03:12, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Break a leg! Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 03:48, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks everyone. Abecedare (talk) 05:00, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
  • And from me as well, congratulations. It's great to see you getting the tools back. As an aside, I don't know of any other editor who can claim to having two successful RfAs ending in unanimous support with 100+ participants. Kurtis (talk) 15:31, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
    That's what I was thinking as well. Two unanimous support RfAs must be a record on Wikipedia. --regentspark (comment) 19:01, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
Surely a record. Still mystified why my new technique for putting on pants tripped me up this morning. :) Abecedare (talk) 22:44, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Congratulations, and thanks for volunteering your time and energy. North America1000 13:44, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Re-congrats on re-adminship! —SpacemanSpiff 14:33, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Welcome back - don't forget to wash the old T-shirt for reuse in these times of economic hardship!  Philg88 talk 15:45, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks all. And why bother with the washing; will only get mud-stained again? :) Abecedare (talk) 16:52, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Non-incorporation of changes on Beti Bachao Beti Padhao page[edit]

I had changes the content already existing in the wikipage of Beti Bachao Beti Padhao (BBBP). This was however deleted due to conflict of interest. I do respect the policies of Wikipedia, but want to make a humble submission that an exception may be made to government schemes and policies. The content must be verifiable from the horse's mouth. BBBP is a recent initiative of Modi government and content that reaches the public at large must be at least informative. You may like to visit Vikaspedia (an initiative similar to Wikipedia, but dealing only with government schemes and policies in India). I had earlier contributed content on BBBP for Vikaspedia as well[1] But still open for discussion and with no intention of challenging the policies...:) Suruchi AggarwalAggarwalsuruchi (talk) 07:04, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

@Aggarwalsuruchi: The primary reason for my reverting your edit was that it was a copyright violatation of content from vikaspedia, whose copyright is, if I am understanding correctly, held by CDAC. If instead you are the rightful owner of the copyright, see Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for instructions on how such material can be donated to wikipedia under a free license.
Secondly, any content on wikipedia has to comply with its content policies, especially verifiability and neutral point of view (the coi policy has been formulated mainly because editors close to the subject may be unable to write neutrally about it). We simply cannot replicate a government website since our aim is not to promote the subject, but to inform the reader about it. So while Government of India sources are fine for some basic content on the scheme, ideally the bulk of the article should be based upon what independent sources say about BBBP. Finally, the wikipedia article also needs to comply with wikipedia's manual of style, which dictates how an article is structured and formatted.
I would recommend that you start a discussion on the article talk page outlining the changes that you'd like to propose and the sources that would support such additions. This won't be an instantaneous or even quick process, but hopefully will help us all improve wikipedia's coverage of the topic. Abecedare (talk) 07:28, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


Ajit Doval[edit]

Hello, you can keep Ajit Doval on your watchlist for repeated POV editing. --Human3015 Say Hey!! • 10:31, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Good day, dear admin! I have been watching this debate for a while and it has gotten to the point where you may need to step in. I think the original phrasing that "Doval claimed leverage in Baluchistan" was perfectly adequate. He is the National Security Advisor and it is his job to be a hawk. One might also summarise the Pakistani reaction in one sentence. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 12:22, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
RP has stepped in and protected it, and its on my watchlist now.
Btw, on a quick read the Views section, which seems to be the locus of the dispute, doesn't convey much information to me (and, presumably to readers not already immersed in the issues). Now that the edit-warring is not an immediate issue, will take some time to get up to speed on the content debate and comment on the talk page by tomorrow. Abecedare (talk) 15:34, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Have started a discussion section on the aricle talkpage to try to get the discussion back on topic. Note that my involvement is not in a "administrative" capacity; will leave that to RP et al. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 16:54, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Roger. Good suggestions. Let us see what these editors are able to do. Cheers, Kautilya3 (talk) 19:14, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

I was not aware of stealth canvassing(What it means, why is it restricted)[edit]

regarding ANI discussion

my statement

You need to post there as i was not aware of these lines in the canvassing page.

" Stealth canvassing: Contacting users off-wiki (by e-mail or IRC, for example) to persuade them to join in discussions (unless there is a specific reason not to use talk pages) ".

Because the way people are commenting about "My E-mails" other users can create an impression that i was trying to ask people say "delete" or "keep" . And you know my E-mail was not against any user. I asked you to join the discussion.How i will know whether you or any unknown editor will vote in favour or against ?. When Mar4d and Topgun are accusing me of canvassing, someone needs to tell them about the details of that E-Mail.C E (talk) 15:31, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Replied on your talk page to keep discussion in one place. Abecedare (talk) 15:50, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Pics and ref removal[edit]

This kind of edit took place at Visakhapatnam page. Could you check if it is proper.--Vin09 (talk) 05:53, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Assume you are referring to this edit. If you prefer the previous montage you can simply restore it and invite the user to discuss the change on the article talk page. Pinging @Av9: as an fyi. Abecedare (talk) 06:20, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
I have followed your method of talk page. If you can comment there it would be more helpful. Talk:Visakhapatnam#Lead.--Vin09 (talk) 06:50, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
Have the page watchlisted and will follow the discussion. Will also leave a message for Av9 so that this so this does not break out into a slow-edit war. Abecedare (talk) 14:09, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
Left a note at the article talkpage since theer are quite a few editors involved. Abecedare (talk) 14:15, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Fancy flexing your regained admin muscle?[edit]

Impersonation account - Sitush g (talk · contribs) - Sitush (talk) 06:08, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Done. Abecedare (talk) 06:17, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. That will ease you in. Now I should line up a really complex history merge as a proper test ... ;) - Sitush (talk) 06:22, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
Anytime, Sitush jee. :) Abecedare (talk) 06:25, 23 May 2015 (UTC)


Hi Abecedare, I have gotten myself on somebody's radar at User talk:Cwobeel and first thing they did was reverted my most recent article edit with a completely bogus edit summary. (diff) I don't wish to speak with this individual, but I would like my work to be respected. Advise? Regards, Edit semi-protected (talk) 06:59, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

@Edit semi-protected: Can't say that I fully understand the background, but having read the conversation at you talk page and at Cwobeel's, what I see are some frayed tempers and some heightened suspicions (which often happens when one is editing in contentious areas on wikipedia!). But the conversations are also reasonably polite by the standards of some of these areas, and no one is stating their suspicion as fact.
So, instead of trying to analyze past actions and comments, here is what I would suggest you do: post a comment at Talk:Trans-Pacific Partnership linking to or quoting your edit, and ask for suggestions on if, how, and where to best include the information you had added. You can mention User:TheGracefulSlick's reversion and quote their edit-summary, but don't try to characterize it as "bogus" (or anything else). There are enough editors on that talk page and this should be easy to resolve through discussion. Hope that helps! Abecedare (talk) 07:39, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
Thank you much for taking the time to help. Having your efforts flat-out reverted hurts, especially when the edit summary runs completely counter to what was intended. I will go to the talk page and state my case, but want no interaction with TGS. Edit semi-protected (talk) 08:04, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
Yes I know (from experience!) how annoying it can be to see ones carefully crafted edit reverted in toto especially given how much easier the latter action is to the former. But then again, this is a standard and even recommended editing approach both on wikipedia and in any collaborative environment, and I have done more than my share of "reverting". So one needs to learn to accept it w/o personalizing the content dispute. Hope your discussion is fruitful. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 08:11, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Hope I did this correctly[edit]

I'm getting my feet wet on closing - [1] Please let me know if I did it correctly. If I did not, I apologize. --Atsme📞📧 13:47, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, Atsme.
I tweaked it slightly so that the {{archivetop}} template is within the section. That way it is easier to edit/modify. In the previous configuration, one would need to edit the preceding section to make any changes to the {{archivetop}}, which can get confusing. Also it would have been better to say that result was (for example) "user was left a note" to indicate at a glance how the issue was resolved.
None of the above are significant issues and I wouldn't have even noticed or bothered with the tweak if you had not asked. Hope the comments help in future ANI maintenance efforts though. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 14:12, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
Absolutely, and thanks again. This is exactly how we learn to do it the right way. 👌--Atsme📞📧 14:23, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Congratulating Wikipedia[edit]

Oh, hey, I just noticed you have resumed the mantle of adminship. The encyclopedia is to be congratulated! Bishonen | talk 14:56, 23 May 2015 (UTC).

Thanks. And now I'll be wasting spending the next hour catching up with Greek mythology. <shaking fist emoji> Abecedare (talk) 14:59, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
I made the link more specific. Bishonen | talk 16:26, 23 May 2015 (UTC).
Thanks. No, "lived happily ever after" option in the Greek world, eh? Can see the attraction of hedonism over stoicism. :) Abecedare (talk) 18:30, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Humarinews again[edit]

Still being used in Axact for BLP statements and in BOL. Dougweller (talk) 20:53, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Pretty sure it's the same spammer at two IPs ( (talk · contribs) and (talk · contribs)). Reverted for now and will keep an eye for reinsertion. Abecedare (talk) 21:29, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Diana Santoke[edit]

Now that User:Beautifuldiana's 72hr block has ended they are recreating the Diana Santoke (hoax) page at User:Beautifuldiana/sandbox. Is it worth nipping it in the bud straight away? Thanks! RichardOSmith (talk) 12:34, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

RfC: Request for new infobox Template for Indian States and Territories[edit]

Thanks for commenting on the RfC, and your sugestions. If you can please Suggest me some more section to be added in the infobox template. And I am an experienced coder and can code the whole template. The template refferenced in the RfC is just a Sample that what could be added in-to the template. If it appears to you that some-thing is missing you can suggest on my talk page or edit the sample infobox. Prymshbmg (talk) 13:07, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Will reply with some initial suggestions at the RFC page so that others can add to them. Abecedare (talk) 14:16, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

A cup of coffee for you![edit]

Cup-o-coffee-simple.svg Thank for contribution Prymshbmg (talk) 13:08, 24 May 2015 (UTC)


He did get three or four right out of those nearly more than 100 listings. Thanks for spotting the run and helping in reverting the mess. — Yash! (Y) 06:05, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your help too in the clean-up, Yash. Abecedare (talk) 14:57, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Hey Abecedare, in retrospect, that looked more like me trying to take over, rather than make a suggestion. It probably felt like I was stepping on your toes; sorry about that. I think this is already clear, but just to be sure, the block was 100% justified and well executed, I'm just trying to bend over backwards to help someone who might just be kind of embarrased. --Floquenbeam (talk) 15:17, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
"looked more like...": Didn't look/feel like that to me at all.
I am all for your attempts and the only reason I didn't undo the block myself following your suggestion was because I thought that you probably already had a specific note in mind, and two voices may work better than one in any case. Hope it works! Abecedare (talk) 15:23, 26 May 2015 (UTC)