User talk:Mark Miller

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The Signpost: 30 July 2014[edit]

This week's article for improvement (week 32, 2014)[edit]

WDW Lucky.jpg

Lucky the Dinosaur at Walt Disney World was the first animatronic creation to walk on land

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:


Previous selections: Vatican Library • Jazz band

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Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:03, 4 August 2014 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions


I suppose, if two people who know photography suggest something, you should at least try an alternative. I've uploaded one. I may be overreacting from one too many people seeing one of my restorations of sepia toned images, and immediately desaturating it and suggesting it as an alt, which makes you somewhat resistant. That may be an overreaction in this case, given photographic prints' contrast can be adjusted readily by changing development time from the negative. Adam Cuerden (talk) 05:59, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 06 August 2014[edit]

RFC at Wikipedia for page protection[edit]

Last call for opinions on RFC at Wikipedia page for page protection extension. User:Pundit is in support of increasing gender equality at Wikipedia and another user is opposed to User:Pundit's efforts. RFC ends on the 14th. LawrencePrincipe (talk) 19:38, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 33, 2014)[edit]


Sheridan Le Fanu was one of the leading ghost story writers of the nineteenth century

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Ghost story

Previous selections: Animatronics • Vatican Library

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Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:01, 11 August 2014 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

This week's article for improvement (week 34, 2014)[edit]

Guillaume Delisle North West Africa 1707.jpg

A historical map of West Africa from 1707

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

History of West Africa

Previous selections: Ghost story • Animatronics

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Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:11, 18 August 2014 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

The Signpost: 13 August 2014[edit]

GOCE July drive and August blitz[edit]

Guild of Copy Editors July 2014 backlog elimination drive wrap-up
Writing Magnifying.PNG

Participation: Thanks to everyone who participated in the July drive. Of the 40 people who signed up this drive, 22 copy edited at least one article. Final results, including barnstars awarded, are available here.

Progress report: We reduced our article backlog from 2400 articles to 2199 articles in July. This is a new month-end record low for the backlog. Nice work, everyone!

Blitz: The August blitz will run from August 24–30. The blitz will focus on articles from the GOCE's Requests page. Awards will be given out to everyone who copy edits at least one of the target articles. The blitz will run from August 24–30. Sign up here!

Cheers from your GOCE coordinators Jonesey95, Baffle gab1978, and Miniapolis.

To discontinue receiving GOCE newsletters, please remove your name from our mailing list. Newsletter delivered by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:11, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

The Dramahz[edit]

I'm out of diet coke and popcorn, so I've gotta leave for the day. However, in regards to Deb and her edits - I don't think she was particularly paying attention to the editor and the page, considering the edits were quite far apart. I think she was just patrolling Special:PendingChanges and reverted for not having an edit summary (which seems odd to me - though she may have meant something else...?). I don't think she's in any kind of wrong here, other than perhaps not paying closer attention or being more clear. Dusti*Let's talk!* 00:03, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

I am not concerned with the drama, but Deb did indeed misuse their ability by declining the IP's posts while their posts were automatically accepted....but that could well be a mistake that one could see as just not paying enough attention to what they are doing.--Mark Miller (talk) 00:07, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
By the way....I love the pic of you and your spouse. How wonderful that is!--Mark Miller (talk) 00:10, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
Just to let you know, I was off the scene for a day or so and did not respond to the incident report until this morning. It wasn't intentional. Deb (talk) 11:43, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
@Deb: that's what I figured. It's all good. @Mark: would you like some soup? Freshly made :) Dusti*Let's talk!* 11:57, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
@Deb:, thanks for the heads up. It sounds very much like you are saying your revert was for BLP concerns about inaccurate birthdates. I have to agree (myself) that birthdates are a BLP me...I know. Happy editing!
That soup is very cold now. ;-)--Mark Miller (talk) 19:54, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 20 August 2014[edit]

This week's article for improvement (week 35, 2014)[edit]

Magnificent CME Erupts on the Sun - August 31.jpg

A solar flare erupts from the Sun, an example of solar activity.

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Solar activity

Previous selections: History of West Africa • Ghost story

Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:03, 25 August 2014 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

This made me smile[edit]

Hello MM. I do hope that you will forgive this intrusion on your talk page. I noticed that your post a Betty's talk page was exactly 666 characters in total. Considering that the post was about The Rocky Horror Picture Show that smile grew into a chuckle. A coincidence like that is too fun not to note. OTOH I know that you are working hard to resolve things in a serious manner so if this bit of frivolity causes offense please feel free to remove this post with my apologies. Thanks for your time and cheers. MarnetteD|Talk 00:32, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

@MarnetteD:LOL! I love it! Frivolity is exactly what I needed at this point. Good job!--Mark Miller (talk) 00:37, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
I'm glad it helped. Hang in there and happy editing - whenever possible!! MarnetteD|Talk 00:40, 26 August 2014 (UTC)


Based on File:Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement1.svg, I hope you should know I feel like you were calling me an ass hat. I have the right to remove such comments based on WP:RPA, a Wikipedia policy. Your reversions not only break that policy but also 3RR. You provided no justification that even attempts to argue that WP:RPA is not applicable. Would you like me to report this to ANI, Mediation, or Arbitration?--ɱ (talk) 22:12, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Since the terminology that you use mj is nowhere in this edit it looks like you, in removing Mark's edits, are far more in violation of talk page guidelines than Mark is. You may want to beware of the WP:BOOMERANG in any reports that you file. Also, you have claimed more than once now, that SNUGGUMS having only edited for a year here at WikiP means that you can discount them in discussions on talk pages. That does violate numerous policies here at Wikipedia. I can but praise Mark for pointing that out in the comments that you tried to remove. MarnetteD|Talk 22:34, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
Your talk page stalker comments are not appreciated. Firstly, I have stated my justification for removing his comments. They are a clear violation of WP:RPA, a policy. Also, I merely reminded the new editor (only once, thank you) that his account is a year old; please stop stretching the meaning of my words- I never said that he couldn't or shouldn't discuss things based upon that. You should be disgusted by Mark, as someone who earned user rights, who is only rudely insulting me while I'm attempting to fix the Wikipedia article that Snuggums was disruptively editing.
Please mind your own business, this is a discussion between me and Mark Miller.--ɱ (talk) 23:37, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
Before I say anything else I want to thank ɱ for coming to my talk page to discuss this. That is very much the proper thing to do.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:57, 26 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes, ɱ I believe you should report this if you feel it is a personal attack that violates the policy. But I have the same "right" or really "expectations" as you to return my posts that your remove. Opinion is one thing but when I reverted your deletion it should have stopped there, but you kept removing my comments and I believe I have every reason to return them. My talk page stalkers are welcome to post whatever their opinion is as long as it does not cross a line and that did not. Your appreciation of others is really the issue make comments that tell others you don't have to AGF due to your own perceptions of their activity which outweighs yours. There is no logic there but is also just not correct to Wikipedia collaboration standards or our policies and guidelines.--Mark Miller (talk) 00:05, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
I wasn't removing any of your comments besides the one relevant to me. And per RPA: "On other talk pages, especially where such text is directed against you, removal should typically be limited to clear-cut cases where it is obvious the text is a true personal attack." It seemed very obvious to me that this was a personal attack, as I mention with relation to Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement. And my appreciation may have been slim, but please read User talk:Ɱ#Did you notice. It was very apparent that this editor was not acting in good faith. And thus I had no appreciation for him, or for your immediate support of him and harsh comments back to me. I hope you understand.--ɱ (talk) 00:26, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
Also, when I write on a user talk page, it's often because I have an issue with the editor that I want to settle with them. I don't want any others jumping into the conversation uninvited, and it's traditionally very rude.--ɱ (talk) 00:30, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
Again, any one of my talk page stalkers is welcome to reply to you, to me or anyone else on this page as long as they do not cross a line so please be careful as I don't take kindly to attempts to chase people off my own talk page.--Mark Miller (talk) 00:38, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
I read through all of that and your being far to "pushy" on that page. Just because you think something is a personal attack actually doe snot mean you are right or that you can even just remove it and then edit war to keep it out. They were my posts and they did not rise to the level of an actual personal attack as I was discussing your contribution to that discussion. I even went back after you deleted them and changed part of it that I felt might not be very nice. The part where I said you should eat your words. In the past I have seen admin tell editors that that is just an uncivil comment and doesn't improve situations. I think I know very much why you have little appreciation of the other editor...but you are responsible for your own comments and what you said had nothing to do with their action but only your perceptions of them. a personal attack. Would you be willing to compromise and remove both your comments and my own. If that is acceptable I can support the removal of both your comment to the other editor and my own. How does that sound?--Mark Miller (talk) 00:38, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
MJ, you might want to re-read what a personal attack is, and you might want to re-read that policy that you stated up above. Mark is not in violation of the 3 revert rule, nor did he attack you. If you find his comments sensitive, you may want to go back and read his edit summaries and log off for awhile. We're not censored, and quite frankly he said it quite nicer than I would have. Dusti*Let's talk!* 01:06, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

() Dusti, I disagree wholeheartedly. Mark, I do agree mostly with what you're saying, and I would be glad to accept your compromise. Feel free to delete any or all of my comments on that page.--ɱ (talk) 01:23, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Compromise reached.--Mark Miller (talk) 01:26, 27 August 2014 (UTC)


Thank you for the wiki lessons, I need to find someone to do my page. I'm new to all of this wiki stuff. Yes I'm Dino, yes I am me, Yes I am David. I have a lot going on. The person who originally did my wikipedia passed away and I didn't think anything of fixing it until recently. (David R. Wells Jr. (talk) 04:03, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your help[edit]

I removed my request as suggested by you from the admins noticeboard, I did notify the user about what you said not just added templates. I didn't use the second part which you pointed out that even the article says that it's not his nickame. So thanks for that if further editing happens, I will point out that part also. Thanks for your time and help.Rivaner (talk) 11:10, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

@Rivaner:, I didn't actually suggest you remove it, only that I didn't know what an admin could do...yet. But perhaps it is better for the moment.--Mark Miller (talk) 11:12, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 27 August 2014[edit]

WikiCup 2014 August newsletter[edit]

The final of the 2014 WikiCup begins in a few short minutes! Our eight finalists are listed below, along with their placement in Round 4:

  1. Smithsonian Institution Godot13 (submissions), a WikiCup newcomer, finished top of Pool A and was the round's highest scorer. Godot is a featured picture specialist, claiming large numbers of points due to high-quality scans of historical documents, especially banknotes.
  2. Scotland Casliber (submissions) is a WikiCup veteran, having been a finalist every year since 2010. In the semi-final, he was Pool B's highest scorer. Cas's points primarily come from articles on the natural sciences.
  3. Nepal Czar (submissions) was Pool A's runner-up. Czar's points come mostly from content related to independent video games, including both articles and topics.
  4. Oh, better far to live and die / Under the brave black flag I fly... Adam Cuerden (submissions) was Pool B's runner-up. Another featured picture specialist, many of Adam's points come from the restoration of historical media. He has been a WikiCup finalist twice before.
  5. Wales Cwmhiraeth (submissions) won the WikiCup in 2012 and 2013, and enters this final as the first wildcard. She focuses on biology-related articles, and has worked on several high-importance articles.
  6. Florida 12george1 (submissions) is the second wildcard. George's points come primarily from meteorology-related articles. This year and last year, George was the first person in the competition to score.
  7. Colorado Sturmvogel 66 (submissions), the third wildcard, was the 2010 champion and a finalist last year. His writes mostly on military history, especially naval history.
  8. Canada Bloom6132 (submissions), the fourth and final wildcard, has participated in previous WikiCups, but not reached any finals. Bloom's points are mostly thanks to did you knows, featured lists and good articles related to sport and national symbols.

We say goodbye to this year's semi-finalists. Herm Matty.007 (submissions), Ohio ThaddeusB (submissions), United States WikiRedactor (submissions), Idaho Figureskatingfan (submissions), Greece Yellow Evan (submissions), Portugal Prism (submissions) and Bartošovice v Orlických horách Cloudz679 (submissions) have all performed well to reach this stage of the competition, and we hope they will all be joining us again next year.

There are two upcoming competitions unrelated to the WikiCup which may be of interest to those who receive this newsletter. The Stub Contest will run through September, and revolves around expanding stub articles, especially high-importance or old stubs. In addition, a proposal has been made for a new competition, the GA Cup, which the organisers plan to run next year. This competition is based on the WikiCup and aims to reduce the good article review backlog.

There is now a thread for brainstorming on how next year's WikiCup competition should work. Please come along and share your thoughts- What works? What doesn't work? What needs changing? Signups for next year's competition will be open soon; we will be in touch. If, at this stage of the competition, you are keen to help the with the WikiCup, please do what you can to participate in review processes. Our finalists will find things much easier if the backlogs at good article candidates, featured article candidates, featured picture candidates and the rest are kept at a minimum. As ever, questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn (talk · contribs) The ed17 (talk · contribs) and Miyagawa (talk · contribs) 22:09, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 36, 2014)[edit]

Nunivak maskette.jpg

A Nunivak Cup'ig man with raven maskette – in the Raven Tales the raven is the Creator god

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Raven Tales

Previous selections: Solar activity • History of West Africa

Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:01, 1 September 2014 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions

The Signpost: 03 September 2014[edit]

Something completely different[edit]

I know you have an interest in gay rights and anti-gay violence, and I think we have an article that chronicles ant-gay violence--I ran into it a while ago. Anyway, this was in de Volkskrant (another resistance paper!). Try Google Translate and see what it gives you for "losbandigheid". I didn't see it on my phone in the NPR thread, so I'll just give you the Dutch link so you can maybe see if you can do something with it--I'd translate it for you but it's way past my bedtime, and apparently I'm on a bender. :) Drmies (talk) 05:30, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

I will look at this tomorrow, as it does indeed interest me, but I am off to bed myself.--Mark Miller (talk) 05:34, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
"Losbandigheid" means something like "moral laxity". It's just an excuse, of course, to harass and maybe convict; it reminds me of the "moral turpitude" business we have in Alabama, which is nothing but a tool to keep certain groups of people from voting. Anywayz, I asked you because I don't remember where this might go and what the conventions are for such articles, like whether legal charges are enough already, or whether there needs to be a conviction before we record it. Thing is, of course, that this kind of harassment doesn't require a conviction in order to harass: the mere accusation is destructive already. Hope you slept better than I did: I'm still pissed, and my boy got up a few times, which is why I'm sitting here at this ungodly time. Drmies (talk) 11:36, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
Given that most individuals in an ant colony are female, I'm surprised to see homosexual violence is a problem for them. NE Ent 12:57, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
I slept very late...and the day is going way too fast. Getting away from me. I will check this out in a bit. Sorry that you didn't sleep well Drmies. I woke up a few times myself with my dog having nightmares.--Mark Miller (talk) 21:32, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

This week's article for improvement (week 37, 2014)[edit]

Jvc gz-mg555-02.jpg

A handheld camcorder ia a typical consumer electronics device

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Consumer electronics

Previous selections: Raven Tales • Solar activity

Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:02, 8 September 2014 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions


I may be off for an extended period or I might get bored and return soon. Can't tell for sure. But off for the time being. Happy editing everyone.--Mark Miller (talk) 20:52, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

I have e-mail again...[edit]

My email is now functioning.--Mark Miller (talk) 03:35, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Removal of Criticism Section - Income Inequality ...[edit]

Hello Mark. I appreciate the advice given at the teahouse. I noticed that the criticism section of income inequality was completely removed. The justification for this was that it was excessive relative to the rest of the article. If each of the criticisms listed were legitimate and properly footnoted from reliable sources, why would this be an issue? Is the purpose of the article to advocate a particular point of view ... and thus any evidence or discussion to the contrary is therefore insubmissable? If so, I understand. But then does Wiki support another article with a counter position? The case put forth in the article itself is full of repetitive verbiage and replete with conjecture and political one-sidedness (i.e. the "Policy Responses" section). Interesting that only the section of criticism has been struck, in its entirety, from the page.

Doing my best here, Mark ...[edit]

Hi. I have provided some discussion input in the article talk section, trying to address your issues. I have addressed all footnote issues and given some input on how the criticisms should be incorporated into the article. Thanks. Tolinjr (talk) 01:21, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Tolinjr, thanks! I'll take a look in a bit. I got a little sick this evening and just popped in now to check messages.--Mark Miller (talk) 02:34, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
  • Sorry to hear that. Appreciate the help.Tolinjr (talk) 14:40, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Editor retention[edit]

Regarding this discussion, I don't believe anyone objects to doing more with editor retention; it's just a question as to what page would be best placed at the name "Wikipedia:Editor retention" (which is already a redirect to WP:WER, from your previous attempt to rename the page). Rather than simply moving the current project page to this location, it may be worthwhile to craft a new page that, from its inception, is aimed at the Wikipedia community as a whole. Good luck! isaacl (talk) 17:14, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

I don't actually see that from the discussion. It actually appears that the few editors that have given their opinion object to leaving the project space. I have no idea what your point was about the redirect but I do get your point about crafting a new page. I believe even our BLP guidelines and DRN took that route. I was trying to do a move to keep all involved but, I have no current interest in crafting another page. Perhaps someone else will take that up.--Mark Miller (talk) 22:19, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
Just noting that someone visiting the page "Wikipedia:Editor retention" will automatically go to the "Wikipedia:Wikiproject Editor Retention" page, so there's no practical difference achieved by renaming the WP:WER page. Whatever initiatives you plan to pursue can be done with the current pages, regardless of what they're named, so I encourage you to proceed. The other commenters liked having a WikiProject page; they didn't object to your ideas on having wider discussions. isaacl (talk) 22:32, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
I think there is a practical reason for the page, but agree that initiatives can also be discussed through the current project. I do think you have actually reminded me that a move/change of the current project is not what I should be striving for. There is no solid reasoning for losing the project page but adding to it with another page is the route other projects have taken.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:57, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

The Signpost: 10 September 2014[edit]

This week's article for improvement (week 38, 2014)[edit]

Aqueduct of Segovia 08.jpg

Arches were used in Ancient Roman architecture to build aqueducts, such as the Aqueduct of Segovia

Hello, Mark Miller.

The following is WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selection:

Ancient Roman architecture

Previous selections: Consumer electronics • Raven Tales

Get involved with the TAFI project! You can...
Posted by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of EuroCarGT (talk) 00:02, 15 September 2014 (UTC) • Opt-out instructions


Hey Mark Miller,

I noticed on another Disambiguation page the term is defined:

Are you going to go about removing the definition? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChicagoGuy11 (talkcontribs) 04:47, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Are you going to remember to sign your posts?--Mark Miller (talk) 18:59, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Edit warring policy[edit]

I was having a discussion earlier today with an interesting chap named User:Lithistman about edit warring by admins. As a result of that discussion, I made an edit to the EW policy which of course, was promptly reverted by an admin. I started a discussion about it here. If you have some ideas as to how to improve this proposal (or if you want to criticize it like many others) that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 07:15, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

I was semi watching that through the edit summaries.--Mark Miller (talk) 07:22, 17 September 2014 (UTC)