User talk:AmateurEditor

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  — Kralizec! (talk) 02:49, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! AmateurEditor (talk) 04:24, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Cosmati[edit]

Why on earth would they bother, when the stuff was available in Italy? In any case, the only quarry was exhausted by the Late Antique period. Johnbod (talk) 20:40, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

I know that is the traditional view, but it has to be backed up. AmateurEditor (talk) 22:22, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
You want receipts?! Johnbod (talk) 23:51, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
I just want accuracy. The sentence was, "...the leading family workshop of marble craftsmen who created works by taking marble from ancient Roman ruins, and arranging the fragments in geometrical decorations." It's doubtful that they exclusively used Roman ruins to create their work, as was stated in the sentence. No doubt they used some, perhaps a lot, but this is hardly the dark ages we are talking about. As an aside, I think having the sentence as it was in the intro to the Cosmatesque article is misleading, as it would lead the casual reader to believe that all examples of the style itself were created from spoila. (Oddly, the proper place for the info, the Cosmati article, doesn't touch on it at all.) AmateurEditor (talk) 02:41, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Engels and Genocide discussion[edit]

Sorry, I was being inarticulate. I meant, "I cannot follow your argument linking Engels' obvious calls for cultural genocide to a physical liquidation policy." I'm happy to continue to disagree over this without further debate, as I think the paras in the article represent the debate in the sources adequately. Fifelfoo (talk) 03:25, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Gotcha. I'm glad we can agree to disagree and still arrive at a consensus. AmateurEditor (talk) 03:36, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
Speaking of how politely and civilly we manage to disagree, your edit to the WP:RS/N item for Globalmuseumoncommunism within Mass killings under Communist regimes was an excellent addition, and I'm rather proud of how neutrally we both put our statements asking for third editors. Well done us in how we disagree! Fifelfoo (talk) 02:36, 12 November 2009 (UTC)
Thank you. We do disagree well, don't we. It's too bad we don't agree more... AmateurEditor (talk) 02:44, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Mass killings under Communist regimes[edit]

Ambox warning pn.svg

An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Mass killings under Communist regimes. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Wikipedia:Notability and "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mass killings under Communist regimes. Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:34, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Notification[edit]

Just a note, you have been mentioned here, and it seems that editor who raised suspicions against you has failed to inform you himself.--Staberinde (talk) 21:54, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. I'll respond there. AmateurEditor (talk) 01:55, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Attack page[edit]

Warning

Please do not make personal attacks as you did at User:AmateurEditor/thefourdeuces. Wikipedia has a strict policy against personal attacks. Attack pages and images are not tolerated by Wikipedia and are speedily deleted. Users who continue to create or repost such pages and images, especially those in violation of our biographies of living persons policy, will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Thank you. The Four Deuces (talk) 22:36, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Question[edit]

Hi AmateurEditor, regarding User:AmateurEditor/thefourdeuces, could you clarify why you created the page? My understanding is that you can draft ArbCom evidence in user space, but can't create pages to disparage someone. PhilKnight (talk) 22:41, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Just want you to know I have removed the G10 tag as it is not appropriate. It would be better to prepare your case off line, so as not to fan the flames. May I suggest that you take this down on your own and work constructively to resolve your differences? Perhaps cool off and stay away form this other person?
As Phil has already commented, I will confer with him. Dlohcierekim 22:45, 17 November 2009 (UTC)
I will move this preparation offline, as it is clearly more public than I intended. I created the page to organize examples of disruptive editing by another editor in preparation for making a case I might need to present later, should the behavior continue. I didn't think anyone else would see it, as it isn't linked to from anywhere, other than my contributions page, which,I suppose, is where The Four Deuces found it. I will continue to work constructively to resolve differences with other editors. AmateurEditor (talk) 01:18, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Mass killings under Communist regimes[edit]

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An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Mass killings under Communist regimes. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Wikipedia:Notability and "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mass killings under Communist regimes (2nd nomination). Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:14, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

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Hello, AmateurEditor. You have new messages at Paul Siebert's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Non-free files in your user space[edit]

Information.svg Hey there AmateurEditor, thank you for your contributions. I am a bot, alerting you that non-free files are not allowed in user or talk space. I removed some files I found on User:AmateurEditor/list. In the future, please refrain from adding fair-use files to your user-space drafts or your talk page.

  • See a log of files removed today here.
  • Shut off the bot here.
  • Report errors here.

Thank you, -- DASHBot (talk) 05:05, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Unofficial colors[edit]

Seeing as it is a relevant piece of information, I feel it should stay. To my knowledge, the infobox has no 'unofficial colors' option, so it has to fit in the 'official color' header; that is why 'unofficial' is next to the word' red'. TN05 00:45, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

The infobox allows customization. I changed "Official colors" to "Unofficial colors" in the template. AmateurEditor (talk) 01:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

the four deuces[edit]

hi AmateurEditor, I found you on communist mass killing. tfd has accused me of sockpuppet, which was investigated and dropped. he follows me from article to article threating a 3rr each time i make a few edits, the last time he actually succeed and got me banned for 12hr. now he has started a community ban of me here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Request_for_community_ban_of_Darkstar1st having been an editor for longer than most, created at least one high traffic article, and a few hundred edits most of which have remained, i find myself in need of a helping hand. after reading your experience with tfd, i was hoping you might contribute what you could about tfd. he has successfully silenced me not by responding to my sources, but attacking me with soapbox, npov, etc. should you not want to get involved, i understand and will not revert your deletion of my words here Darkstar1st (talk) 21:09, 23 June 2010 (UTC) Darkstar1st (talk) 21:16, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Knowing how TFD can be, I sympathize, but I am not familiar with the issues here and I don't have much time right now for Wikipedia. Sorry. AmateurEditor (talk) 22:58, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
understood, evidentially i am now accused of canvassing as well... Darkstar1st (talk) 23:13, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

On Genocide and Crimes Against Humanity Committed in Albania during the Communist Regime for Political, Ideological and Religious Motives[edit]

An editor has proposed renaming this article. His original choice was "Albanian genocide law". However I oppose any change of name because no reliable sources provide a short form for the law and there is another law on "Genocide" under the Albanian criminal code,[1] while this law has been repealed. Please comment at the article's talk page. TFD (talk) 00:14, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

WP:Articles_for_deletion/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes_(3rd_nomination)#Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes exists[edit]

neutral notification Collect (talk) 12:52, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Mass killings under Communist regimes[edit]

I notice that you are interspersing arguments in the discussion page which will go unnoticed. Could you please present views at the bottom of the page. Before you do that though could you please determine what degree of acceptance those views have, since they seem to be Cold War ideas from the 1950s and the world has moved on. TFD (talk)

Well, I definitely don't want my post to go unnoticed. I thought about posting at the bottom of the page, but decided that might make things more confusing for others trying to read the threads and follow the back and forth of the arguments. Fortunately, you and Paul Siebert seem to have noticed. I'll let Igny and Fifelfoo know on their talk pages in case they've overlooked it. I would appreciate a response from you, as well, if you don't mind (particularly about explaining that one sentence).
About the degree of acceptance: I assume you mean the degree of acceptance of discussing the Communist mass killings collectively. That doesn't seem to be at all controversial from the brief research I have done. If there is contention on that issue, I am sure there would be some mention of it in book reviews or academic publications responding to the sources used in the article. If you could find that case made there it would greatly bolster your argument.
I don't agree that the article exemplifies old and outdated ideas from the 1950s. Sources used such as Valentino, Karlsson, the Black Book, and many others are fairly recent publications. AmateurEditor (talk) 23:01, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't edit Mass Killings Under Communist Regimes any more, though I occasionally contribute to the talk page. The last time I tried, the most active editors of that article got together and almost succeeded in getting me banned from editing Wikipedia. I don't need that kind of grief over an article that is hopelessly flawed no matter how it is reworked. No real encyclopedia has a article with a title anything like that. The subjects in the article should be covered under the various countries involved, not lumped together in a specious attempt to use Wikipedia for anti-Communist propaganda. Rick Norwood (talk) 14:15, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Rick, any editor willing to politely and frankly discuss their disagreements is fine by me. I remember your position about the article topic from at least one of the AfD's, and I don't want to re-argue the issue here, but I hope we can agree that the AfD's were the proper place to settle that matter. It seems to me that the POV tag is being used inappropriately as a stand-in for some editors to express their dislike of the topic, rather than fix any biased language within the article. AmateurEditor (talk) 22:07, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
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Hello, AmateurEditor. You have new messages at Paul Siebert's talk page.
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Thanks for restating your question at my talk page, I've replied there. Fifelfoo (talk) 03:57, 31 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your extended contribution on my talk page. I was deeply moved by it, and have replied at depth there. I feel like I am in a position where my stance can very easily be swayed; and have noted the issues outstanding in my mind, quoting you in particular where your arguments where highly suasive. I would appreciate a further reply if you have time, it doesn't appear that I need you to cite any sources or look up new material, but rather consider the encyclopaedic problem of taxonomy, notability and "what is a thing" to be written about. Fifelfoo (talk) 00:46, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay, I appeared to be even busier than I thought on Sunday. I posted my version on my talk page.--Paul Siebert (talk) 18:21, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Leaning Tower of Nevyansk[edit]

This source gives the following description:

Уникальным является и толковое решение конструкции шатра башни. Примерно такое же устройство использовали лишь сто лет спустя, в 1826 году, при возведении Майнцского собора в Германии. А третий - при постройке Исаакиевского собора в Петербурге.

It should be translated this way:

The smart construction of the tented roof of the tower was also unique. The similar scheme was used only 100 years later, in 1826, during the construction of the Mainz Cathedral in Germany. For the third time it was used during the construction of St. Isaac's Cathedral in Saint Petersburg.

Cast iron dome is not mentioned directly, but this is exactly the rare detail which Mainz Cathedral (Mainz Cathedral#19th century reconstruction) in 1826-1870 and St. Isaac's Cathedral (File:Montferrand dome design.jpg) have in common. Basically the scheme is a tented roof or dome over a supporting iron structure. GreyHood Talk 20:02, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the translation, Greyhood (I can't read Russian, so I relied on Google Translate to check the source). I don't doubt the roof is metal. I wouldn't have questioned the citations if I hadn't seen this page showing the tower in section. It shows the roof as a pyramidal form of flat sections having no interior curve, which means it is not a dome. The tower does have shallow cloister vaults over lower levels, but they are not mentioned as being made of iron and photos do not show that they are (the iron retaining rods protruding from the walls were commonly used to resist the outward force of arched masonry). AmateurEditor (talk) 20:27, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
Well, the scheme on the picture you refer is too small and simplified. It just doesn't show any internal details of the tented roof, just as it doesn't show many details of the lower levels, such as staircases or protruding rebars. The cited source however states there was a unique structure, not just a metal tented roof. GreyHood Talk 20:43, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
Here's how I look at it: First, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. As you say, at best the source provided merely implies an iron dome. I don't think this is enough to act as a reliable citation. Most likely it is not talking about domes in the first place because it uses the word "шатра" rather than "купол" (correct me if I'm wrong about those being the appropriate words) and the section of the article is discussing lightning rods. Also, there is good reason to doubt that the tower has a dome in the roof at all based upon that section drawing (which shows no dome in the roof, while it does show the lower vaults) I agree that drawings can be inaccurate, but I can't find a photo. Can we agree that, if it is true, a better source for this can be found and should be used? AmateurEditor (talk) 21:08, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
Don't think it is an extraordinary claim. The source talks about the construction scheme and says it was similar. Looking at St. Isaacs image we see an external dome on an inner carcass also in the form of a dome (double dome in St. Isaacs's case). It must be the same in the tower of Nevyansk, with the difference been external tented roof (instead of external dome) over inner dome. As for the tented roof, one should understand that large and heavy tented roofs should have a significant support from below. When a tented roof is stone, it functions similar to an ordinary dome where heavy lower parts support upper parts. But a heavy metal roof should have an additional supporting structure. That's why I'm sure the drawing of the tower in section can't be accurate. GreyHood Talk 22:21, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
I agree that we could do better with more sources. I'll try to find them tomorrow, but for now I think the present source is enough. GreyHood Talk 22:21, 7 August 2011 (UTC)
Ok. But, if we can't find a more reliable source which says the tower has a cast iron dome, then shouldn't we assume it doesn't and the current source is just poorly worded? AmateurEditor (talk) 00:38, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
By the way, I just found that Russian Wikipedia article about St. Isaac's Cathedral also states that St. Isaac's was the third dome in the world, after Nevyansk and Meinz, to use metal carcass and shell. It is supported by this link there. GreyHood Talk 15:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)
That's interesting, but I don't see that that website is a reliable source either: it is not easy for me to tell without reading Russian, but the website, while informative, does not appear to be academic or particularly rigorous (that page, for example, is part of a series called "Diary of a Writer/Walking in St. Petersburg"). Please correct me if I am wrong.
I have been looking for reliable sources online in English which support this and I have not found any. The Macmillan Encyclopedia of Architects, for example, states that the Halle au Blé (1808-1815) was "the first cast iron dome in history" and makes no mention of the tower of Nevyansk. The book "Firsts: Origins of Everyday Things That Changed the World" by Wilson Casey discussed the tower of Nevyansk as a first only regarding lightning rods. "Siberia: A Cultural History" discusses the tower but only its leaning nature; no mention of lightning rods or domes.
As far as websites (avoiding blogs and mirrors of wikipedia), russiandiscovery.com has a page on Nevyansk. It does not mention the tower having the first iron dome. Ekaterinburg.com also has a page on Nevyansk and it also does not mention the tower having the first iron dome.
I think it is suspicious that both of the sources for this information have repeated the same error that Mainz and St. Isaacs have the 2nd and 3rd iron domes. It suggests that one got it from the other or that they both got it from the same source. As a reader of Russian, perhaps you would be able to look for how the tower is described on official websites for the tower or the city or region, which would likely have this kind of information to attract tourists. I think these would be more reliable websites. Of course, a book or academic article would be even better. AmateurEditor (talk) 03:14, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Hm, there rises a problem of how we name things. Halle au Blé is a light iron and glass structure (the inside view), while the other domes we discussed so far are much heavier, with additional internal support.
Perhaps we could solve our problem if we reclassify Leaning Tower of Nevyansk as the first case of internal cast iron supporting structure for a vaulted roof. Can't find the right term right now. GreyHood Talk 13:02, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
As for the other sources on Nevyansk Tower in connection with Mainz Cathedral and St. Isaacs Cathedral, here are some other sources of various quality to be found on request "Невьянская башня Майнцский собор Исаакиевский собор" (Nevyansk Tower Mainz Cathedral St. Isaacs Cathedral). GreyHood Talk 13:02, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
According to Google Translate, several of the sources at the search results page you have provided say that Mainz Cathedral and St. Isaac's are the second and third examples behind the tower of Nevyansk of the use of reinforced concrete.[2][3][4] AmateurEditor (talk) 21:38, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
Sorry for the late answer, didn't noticed your talkback template in time. As for the reinforced concrete connection between three buildings - this must be a mistake that repeats from source to source. Too much confusion there anyway.
First these sources discuss the use of rebars in the tower (which are the component of reinforced concrete in modern times) while also the same sources say that in the Tower of Nevyansk some rebars are made of two different types of metal which together work along the lines of the same principle as reinforced concrete (one metal provides strength and the other provides tension). And yes, the sources say about the "principle of reinforced concrete" (both in connection to rebar carcass and in connection to rebars' two-metal compsition), not about the real "reinforced concrete", because in fact there seems to be no any true concrete, only rebars throughout the entire tower, forming a carcass. Nor there seems to be any reinforced concrete in Mainz Cathedral or St. Isaacs Cathedral (and no rebars there, perhaps except of the domes). Also, the sources starts discussing all those rebars in connection to the lower parts of the tower or in connection to the the entire tower, and then suddenly jump to the Mainz Cathedral and St. Isaacs Cathedral, which makes no sense.
That's why I believe the original source, making parallel between the tented roof/domes of the tower and two cathedrals is more credible, especially given the fact that having a cast iron dome is a distinctive feature of both Mainz Cathedral and St. Isaacs Cathedral. GreyHood Talk 07:09, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
About the use of the word "concrete", is that the word used in the original Russian? If not, you are aware that it is the result of machine translation and may not be the precise meaning from those pages. But it is irrelevant to the larger point that those sources discuss the tower as first and followed by Mainz and St. Isaac's only in reference to the rebar, not to any dome, which agrees with most of the other sources, including the most reliable ones.
The best evidence that the tower has an iron dome is an ambiguously worded sentence in a non-specialist news website which is both contradicted in more reliable sources and is very similar to a much more credible claim found in other sources focusing on the use of iron rebar. A tented roof is not a dome (and it can be clearly seen from photographs that the tower does not even have a tented roof; it has a common eight-sided pyramidal roof). Surely there would be a picture of the iron dome itself somewhere online if it was so significant. Surely there would be mention of it in a more reliable source if it was so significant. I have looked for such a source in English without finding any mention in sources where one would expect to find it, if it were true. I asked you to search for a more reliable Russian source and the sources you found described a very different first for the tower. The claim that the tower contains the first iron dome has failed verification. If you still do not agree, then I suppose we will have to take this to the reliable sources noticeboard. AmateurEditor (talk) 20:43, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
In Russian there is a single word "железобетон" which means "reinforced concrete". And no, the sources which jump from the principle of reinforced concrete to the cathedrals look very similar and are likely to repeat the same mistake.
This source describes the top of the tower as "шарообразный купол" (spheric dome) and this source says "шатрообразный купол" (tent-like dome). This source also uses the term "купол" (dome) and speaks about its original construction, and other sources do.
No matter how the roof looks from outside, look at the St. Isaac's image again - there is internal cast iron dome.
As for the further analysis of sources, sorry, I'll be able to continue it tomorrow. GreyHood Talk 21:24, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
This source and others tell about "каркас шатра" ("carcass of the tent"). GreyHood Talk 15:28, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
Do we agree that a tented roof is not a dome and that a carcass or framework is also not a dome (although some domes may, of course, be supported by them)? I don't know why certain websites use the word dome in describing this tower, but three possibilities come to mind: 1) they are referring to the spherical orb over the weather vane and have used that word by mistake 2) they have confused the leaning tower with the bell tower of the nearby church that clearly is capped by a dome 3) they have used Wikipedia as a source of information and have been mislead. Possibility number three can explain a lot. Clearly from the last link you offered, the comparison to Mainz and St. Isaac's, which you used to conclude that your original source must be referring to a dome, relates instead to the "principle of concrete construction" (that is, the principle of using two materials with different properties together as a composite, such as two different kinds of metal in a single beam and not necessarily involving concrete per se). But even very reliable sources (which these websites do not appear to be) can contain errors. In finding sources which contradict each other, then we should not engage in original research by interpreting them as we would like. We must evaluate which sources are the most reliable and favor those sources. In this case, sources with architectural expertise or official websites for the tower or region supersede random news websites, and they do not support the claim that the Leaning Tower of Nevyansk has the world's first iron dome. AmateurEditor (talk) 16:32, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
Yes, tented roof is not a dome, though it shares some features...You know, I think we may just use the word "cupola", which is more broader than dome (though it supposes a smaller structure or a structure at the top of tower rather than the main space of cathedral). You see, the problem might be in the fact that in Russian language the word "купол" may be used both in the sense of dome and in the broader sense of cupola (with the latter word Russian "купол" - pronounced kupal - shares its etymology).
The article on Mainz Cathedral has this sentence: The major change to the building was an iron cupola on the main eastern tower built by architect Georg Moller. And looking at the images of Mainz Cathedral, for example this one, it is seen that indeed it does have cupola and no any domes. Sorry for the confusion, I should have noticed it earlier.
I can't find any other sources relating the principle of reinforced concrete with Mainz Cathedral or St. Isaac's Cathedral, so the common unique trait between those Cathedrals and the Nevyansk Tower must be cast iron cupola with a carcass (or cast iron dome in the case of St. Isaac's, which would still be "купол" in Russian). So I'll change the terminology in the articles related to Nevyansk Tower. GreyHood Talk 17:42, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
This would be so much easier if these websites would cite their sources, wouldn't it? Reading all these different takes on the same subject reminds me of a game of telephone. AmateurEditor (talk) 18:38, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Link in your page?[edit]

Hey, AmateurEditor, I was just looking at your page, and I think it would be a good idea for you to add a link to your contribution history, like here. Just a thought, don't have to do it.

-Asatav

Thanks for the suggestion, but I would rather not. AmateurEditor (talk) 02:34, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Re Your reversion of my collapses at MkuCr[edit]

Howdy partner. Unfortunately I have to disagree with you on the collapses. You collapsed a oppose vote by Collect, and a contribution by another editor pointing out a contradiction in the lede. I don't think it's all tangential. I recommend that we leave evaluating the arguments made in the discussion to the closing admin. Zloyvolsheb (talk) 02:18, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Looking at this revision version, right after my change, Collect's oppose vote remains outside the collapse box. If the other editor you refer to is Hal peridol at the very end, his comment also remains outside. The only parts I think we should collapse are the parts where the dicussion vears off onto evaluating particular sources, rather than discussing the proposal itself. AmateurEditor (talk) 02:34, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
Yes, you're right. I still don't think it would be ideal to collapse the discussion of sources, since these concern the estimate. However, I would be fine with you collapsing those comments if you explicitly indicate that "collapsed discussion concerns particular sources" in the hatnote. That would allow whoever goes through the discussion to understand the kind of discussion that was collapsed. Zloyvolsheb (talk) 02:48, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
Ok. I will use your proposed notation. AmateurEditor (talk) 02:49, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Cavil[edit]

Funny word, isn't it? You've interacted with the only editor that uses it. Rumor has it, he gets .25 cents from The Obscure Word Society each time he uses it. :~)..```Buster Seven Talk 08:51, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

To each his own, I guess. I am of the opinion that unnecessarily using obscure words, even when they are more precise, is discourteous. And, if we are trying to change someone's mind on an issue, it's counter-productive. AmateurEditor (talk) 22:04, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
Using obscure words is #3 on his Daily To Do list.```Buster Seven Talk 02:30, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 8[edit]

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Edit request at MkuCr[edit]

Thank you for notifying me. Without discussing the actual information you wish to put into the article or the reliability of the source, I question why we would use it. There has been extensive writing on the topic in sources which can easily be checked for reliability and are far more accessible. TFD (talk) 05:19, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

You're welcome. I have no problem with using a better source when we find one, but Tourbillon presented this source and we have no good reason to exclude it. AmateurEditor (talk) 06:04, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Article Feedback Tool update[edit]

Hey AmateurEditor. I'm contacting you because you're involved in the Article Feedback Tool in some way, either as a previous newsletter recipient or as an active user of the system. As you might have heard, a user recently anonymously disabled the feedback tool on 2,000 pages. We were unable to track or prevent this due to the lack of logging feature in AFT5. We're deeply sorry for this, as we know that quite a few users found the software very useful, and were using it on their articles.

We've now re-released the software, with the addition of a logging feature and restrictions on the ability to disable. Obviously, we're not going to automatically re-enable it on each article—we don't want to create a situation where it was enabled by users who have now moved on, and feedback would sit there unattended—but if you're interested in enabling it for your articles, it's pretty simple to do. Just go to the article you want to enable it on, click the "request feedback" link in the toolbox in the sidebar, and AFT5 will be enabled for that article.

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Deletion[edit]

It was a good deletion. Domes were not common in many parts of Europe in the Middle ages (England for example) but Italy has quite a number of examples, with the dome of Florence Cathedral already being the proposed design in the late Gothic period. Amandajm (talk) 10:33, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, there were more than I expected when I was working on the medieval sections of the Dome article. AmateurEditor (talk) 02:34, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

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Images[edit]

Yes.
Got a bus to catch.
Back later. Amandajm (talk) 03:32, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Images II[edit]

I have just been dealing with two particularly thoughtless edits on Romanesque architecture. People often have this thing where they see only their own region, or the photo that they took themselves, and want it in the article, no matter what!

OK. I'll use Romanesque Architecture and Themes in Italian Renaissance painting as major references.

Putting together a gallery:

  • Have a name which defines the overall theme of the gallery, even if it is in only your head. This means that you don't muddle images of different types.
  • Because of the sorting of images into clear sections of defined types, the format "Packed galleries" is useful.
  • Some themes are easier to work with than others. The theme Walls and buttresses in Romanesque architecture was easy, because I had an infinite range of buildings from which to chose. I just had to find the ones that worked well together.
My choices were dictated in part by considerations of the horizontal/vertical format, the scale of the building within the picture in relation to the scale of the other pics, the colouring of the pic, right down to the blueness of the sky. Those four images can sit snugly together in a "packed gallery". They don't fight with each other and they don't merge or distract.
They don't have to be quite that well matched, in order to work. The gallery Politics works because the distance and scale is the same, and the ground-levels are compatible, as in each case the subject is set back from the foreground. The Tower of London and the view of San Gimignano are very similarly coloured, so they frame the other two.
There is a similar sort of balance in the gallery Types of churches. We are looking up at two, and down at two. Scale was everything in this. I was very happy to find such a tiny church. The monastic church was a "must" because it has its monastic buildings intact, the collegiate church was harder to find from that early date. Then all I needed was a cathedral that book-ended the little Scandinavian church. I love the fact that they both have the witch's hat spire. Note that in the context of explaining architectural form, none of these images are as useful as those that follow, but in terms of demonstrating the scope of religious buildings, they are excellent.
Likewise, Pilgrimage and crusade are four quite atmospheric images. I knew what buildings I wanted, but had to find images that worked.
  • Tighter themes: Openings and arcades, Piers and columns, Capitals etc. I spend a lot of time searching. I then crop the images to make sure that the scale within the picture is compatible. Sometimes it works.
With the gallery East ends I gave up searching, as you can see by the result. I really ought to get back to that, as it looks ghastly.
The Facades section was really difficult, as there were several buildings that were obligatory, and I needed a wide range of locations. I have tweaked a number of those pics, straightening them, tonal adjustment etc. I am tempted to reduce the intensity of the sky in Lisbon Cathedral.


  • Some themes are much harder to work with. See Themes in Italian Renaissance painting: Linear perspective. There was little choice here. I had to use a Giotto, an Uccello, that particular Massaccio, one of Fra Angelico's loggias, that Leonardo, a Ghirlandaio. They are all different shapes and sizes, but needed to be arranged more-or-less chronologically.
  • Because I was dealing with artworks here, I had to respect the fact that each image had a composition that was determined by the artist. I couldn't crop images so that they looked well together. Each image is an entity. The additional problem is they they would normally be hung within a frame, and with their own clear wall-space.
  • For these reasons, "packed gallery" format doesn't work well with paintings. It crowds them together, it mixes images of different scales and formats, and they fight with each other, or merge, neither of which is desirable. So I used a format in which each image has a border, and I can size them to suit the shape of the image:
Gentile Bellini, Procession of the True Cross
Leonardo da Vinci, The Adoration of the Magi

Sometimes a group of pictures just begs to be together! These are in chronological order. I normally avoid having people looking outwards at the edges, but the Doge is quite serene and Pope Julius at the other end is probably meditating on his own sins and his mortality. Because they are all of similar size and format, they go really well together. The two on the left are two of my favourite male portraits. Amandajm (talk) 11:31, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

Giovanni Bellini, Doge Leonardo Loredano, 1501-05. 
Titian, The Man with the blue sleeve, c.1510. 
Andrea del Sarto, Portrait of a man, c.1510. 
Raphael, Pope Julius II, 1511-12. 

That was much more than I expected. Thanks for taking the time. AmateurEditor (talk) 21:47, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

List of Roman/Byzantine Emperors[edit]

I know I'm a little late, but I was reading the talk page for List of Roman Emperors today and found myself agreeing with your side of the discussion, that the information in the List of Byzantine Emperors should be included in the list as well. I'm not sure there's much I could do at this point, but I'd love to help get that proposal pushed through if you think it still can be. I Feel Tired (talk) 17:31, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

You've got mail![edit]

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Nikkimaria (talk) 13:31, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Credo[edit]

Hello! You have received preliminary approval for access to Credo. Please fill out this short form so that your access can be processed. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:50, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

That contribution list......[edit]

You wouldn't happen to be a Dome worshiper, would you? It'd be hard to believe otherwise after looking at your contribution history. Praise Helix! 173.66.213.143 (talk) 22:45, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

I'm just writing the article I wanted to read! There's much more to it than I originally thought. It's not an obsession, really... AmateurEditor (talk) 23:21, 22 August 2014 (UTC)