User talk:Ancheta Wis/w

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I propose to organize more of the Talk:Physics/wip/development article#Principles and concepts section around some selections from the list of Latin phrases. My motivation is the Born-Einstein letters, where the two physicists wrote to each other over a span of decades. Some of the Latin phrases they used over and over again include

--Ancheta Wis 10:02, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Principles and concepts[edit]

Regularities[edit]

Further information: [[Earth, Moon, Sun, Solar System]]

The search for regularities in nature serves to motivate our search for principles of physics. Thus Kepler's discovery of the inscribed Platonic solid model of the solar system seemed to him his greatest achievement. Of course, Kepler's laws, which he derived over a period of twenty years, were the mathematical relations which Newton was able to incorporate into his system of the world.

Hexagonal cloud over Saturn's north pole

The nature of matter[edit]

Further information: [[Atom, Molecule, Periodic table, Chemistry]]

Matter is a mass noun which can refer to ensembles of atoms and molecules as well as their constituent subatomic particles. Einstein believed that fields were more fundamental than particles, which illustrates that matter is not the simple topic it appears to be. Newton treated matter as points endowed with mass. This of course allowed mechanics to be reduced to geometry, as illustrated in Galileo's Two New Sciences.

Feynman started out the Feynman Lectures on Physics with the atomic hypothesis, which he considered to be the most compact statement of physics, from which the science could be rebuilt, were we to lose all our knowledge but that. By modeling matter as collections of hard spheres, much like Galileo's bronze ball, with which the law of falling bodies was measured, it is possible to describe statistical mechanics.

Statistical mechanics, and the assumption that gases can be modelled by the collisions of hard spheres, can be used to derive the laws of thermodynamics. Liouville's theorem for statistical and Hamiltonian mechanics is a classical nineteenth century result which describes the behavior of the phase space distribution function[1]. Liouville's theorem has a suggestive formulation, the Poisson bracket, which encodes Hamilton's equations of classical mechanics. The Poisson bracket is in form much like the commutator of quantum mechanics. The laws of nature appear to follow the postulates of quantum mechanics, and the theories that follow these postulates are said to have been quantized.

Matter and its motion[edit]

The special theory of relativity enjoys a relationship with electromagnetism and mechanics; that is, the principle of relativity and the principle of stationary action in mechanics can be used to derive Maxwell's equations[2], [3], and vice versa.

Relativity and quantum mechanics can describe the physics of the extremely small (atoms, nuclei, fundamental particles), the extremely large (the Universe), and the extremely fast (relativity). But no complete theory yet exists. The Schrödinger picture of quantum mechanics and the Heisenberg picture can be connected by the Ehrenfest theorem, the analog of Liouville's theorem noted above.

The principle of least action[edit]

While physics deals with a wide variety of systems, there are certain theories that are used by all physicists. Each of these theories were experimentally tested numerous times and found correct as an approximation of Nature (within a certain domain of validity). For instance, the theory of classical mechanics accurately describes the motion of objects, provided they are much larger than atoms and moving at much less than the speed of light. These theories continue to be areas of active research; for instance, a remarkable aspect of classical mechanics known as chaos was discovered in the 20th century, three centuries after the original formulation of classical mechanics by Isaac Newton (16421727). These "central theories" are important tools for research into more specialized topics, and any physicist, regardless of his or her specialization, is expected to be literate in them.

Major topics of physics[edit]

Classification of physics fields by the types of effects that need to be accounted for

Contemporary research in physics is divided into several distinct fields that study different aspects of the material world. Condensed matter physics, by most estimates the largest single field of physics, is concerned with how the properties of bulk matter, such as the ordinary solids and liquids we encounter in everyday life, arise from the properties and mutual interactions of the constituent atoms. The field of atomic, molecular, and optical physics deals with the behavior of individual atoms and molecules, and in particular the ways in which they absorb and emit light. The field of particle physics, also known as "high-energy physics", is concerned with the properties of submicroscopic particles much smaller than atoms, including the elementary particles from which all other units of matter are constructed. Finally, the field of astrophysics applies the laws of physics to explain celestial phenomena, ranging from the Sun and the other objects in the solar system to the universe as a whole.

Since the 20th century, the individual fields of physics have become increasingly specialized, and nowadays it is not uncommon for physicists to work in a single field for their entire careers. "Universalists" like Albert Einstein (18791955) and Lev Landau (19081968), who were comfortable working in multiple fields of physics, are now very rare.

Current Research[edit]

Research in physics is progressing constantly on a large number of fronts, and is likely to do so for the foreseeable future.

In condensed matter physics, the biggest unsolved theoretical problem is the explanation for high-temperature superconductivity. Strong efforts, largely experimental, are being put into making workable spintronics and quantum computers.

In particle physics, the first pieces of experimental evidence for physics beyond the Standard Model have begun to appear. Foremost amongst these are indications that neutrinos have non-zero mass. These experimental results appear to have solved the long-standing solar neutrino problem in solar physics. The physics of massive neutrinos is currently an area of active theoretical and experimental research. In the next several years, particle accelerators will begin probing energy scales in the TeV range, in which experimentalists are hoping to find evidence for the Higgs boson and supersymmetric particles.

Theoretical attempts to unify quantum mechanics and general relativity into a single theory of quantum gravity, a program ongoing for over half a century, have not yet borne fruit. The current leading candidates are M-theory, superstring theory and loop quantum gravity.

Many astronomical and cosmological phenomena have yet to be satisfactorily explained, including the existence of ultra-high energy cosmic rays, the baryon asymmetry, the acceleration of the universe and the anomalous rotation rates of galaxies.

Although much progress has been made in high-energy, quantum, and astronomical physics, many everyday phenomena, involving complexity, chaos, or turbulence are still poorly understood. Complex problems that seem like they could be solved by a clever application of dynamics and mechanics, such as the formation of sandpiles, nodes in trickling water, the shape of water droplets, mechanisms of surface tension catastrophes, or self-sorting in shaken heterogeneous collections are unsolved. These complex phenomena have received growing attention since the 1970s for several reasons, not least of which has been the availability of modern mathematical methods and computers which enabled complex systems to be modeled in new ways. The interdisciplinary relevance of complex physics has also increased, as exemplified by the study of turbulence in aerodynamics or the observation of pattern formation in biological systems. In 1932, Horace Lamb correctly prophesized:

I am an old man now, and when I die and go to heaven there are two matters on which I hope for enlightenment. One is quantum electrodynamics, and the other is the turbulent motion of fluids. And about the former I am rather optimistic.

[citation needed]

Applications and Influence[edit]

Applied physics is a general term for physics which is intended for a particular use; thus happiness can come from a successful application of the science. "Applied" is distinguished from "pure" by a subtle combination of factors such as the motivation and attitude of researchers and the nature of the relationship to the technology or science that may be affected by the work.[4] It usually differs from engineering in that an applied physicist may not be designing something in particular, but rather is using physics or conducting physics research with the aim of developing new technologies or solving a problem. The approach is similar to that of applied mathematics. Applied physicists can also be interested the use of physics for scientific research. For instance, people working on accelerator physics might seek to build better particle detectors for research in theoretical physics.

Physics is used heavily in engineering. Statics, a subfield of mechanics, is used in the building of bridges or other structures; the simple machines such as the lever and the ramp had to be discovered before they could be used; today, they can be taught to schoolchildren. The understanding and use of acoustics will result in better concert halls; similarly, the use of optics creates better optical devices. An understanding of physics makes for more realistic flight simulators, video games, and movies, as well as in forensic investigations (what do we know and when do we know it; what did the subject know and when did the subject know it).

There are many fields of physics which have strong applied branches, as well as many related and overlapping fields from other disciplines that are closely related to applied physics.

  • Acoustics, the study of sound waves, is used everywhere we wish to hear, for example in music, speech, and audible alarms.
  • Agrophysics is the study of the physics in agronomy.
  • Biophysics is the interface of biology and physics.
  • Chemical physics studies the structure and dynamics of ions, free radicals, polymers, clusters, and molecules, using both classical and quantum mechanical viewpoints.
  • Communications has used physics extensively, for example in the Bell Laboratories. The first communications satellite appeared 300 years after Newton.
  • Econophysics is the interface of economics and physics.
  • Engineering physics graduates specialists in optics, nanotechnology, control theory, aerodynamics, or solid-state physics.
  • Fluid mechanics is the study of fluids (liquids and gases) at rest and in motion. The Navier-Stokes equations are used in supercomputers to model Earth's weather.
  • Geophysics is the physics of Earth.
  • Lasers and radar were developed in the laboratories, used by the military, and now have extensive peacetime uses. Quantum electronics includes the study of lasers.
  • Medical physics includes the standards for radiation exposure and infrastructure for radiology.
  • Optics has existed as a science for over 1000 years. Like acoustics, it has its own journals, practioners, and university departments, as well as industries which utilize those graduates.
  • Plasma physics is the physics of an ionized gas.
  • Physics of computation must rely upon the state of the art. For example, the accuracy of a computation depends on the ability to manufacture to tolerance, which was the undoing of Babbage's difference engine. Babbage's design worked when built with twentieth century technology.
  • Solid state physics, including the material properties of semiconductor devices and integrated circuits.

Engineering utilizes physics in service of technology rather than science.

See also[edit]

Varieties of physics[edit]

Related fields[edit]


References[edit]

  1. ^ See, for example, Roger Penrose The Road to Reality, which surveys the manifolds, symmetry groups, fibre bundles and gauge connections beneath spacetime.
  2. ^ Landau and Lifshitz (1951, 1962), The Classical Theory of Fields, Library of Congress Card Number 62-9181, Chapters 1-4
  3. ^ Corson and Lorrain, Electromagnetic Fields and Waves ISBN 0716718235
  4. ^ Stanford Applied Physics Department Description

External links[edit]

General[edit]

Organizations[edit]






Tod, Oxford, Weyl Curvature Hypothesis Paul Tod (paul.tod@st-johns.oxford.ac.uk) 8 Aug - 23 Dec 2005

The hypothesis[edit]

According to a public lecture by Roger Penrose 18 August 2006 at University of British Columbia, Vancouver B.C., the Weyl curvature hypothesis is that the normal derivative of the Weyl curvature of a previous universe is equal to the normal derivative of the Weyl curvature in the succeeding universe even at the moment of the Big Bang. This result follows by analytic continuation. --Ancheta Wis 05:39, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[1]

  1. ^ Sir Roger Penrose suggests that the conformal structure at the end of a phase of expansion may be continued through infinity as a new Big Bang. -- Paul Tod

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Return[edit]

In the battle in which Magellan was killed in Mactan, Philippines, Pigafetta also was hurt. Nevertheless, he managed to recover and was among the 17 on board the Victoria, who accompanied Juan Sebastián Elcano in his return Spain.

After reaching port in Sanlúcar de Barrameda (Cadiz) in September of 1522, three years after his departure, he recollected his experiences in Relazione del Primo Viaggio Intorno Al Mondo (Relations of the First Round-the-world Trip), composed in Italian, and was published in Venice in 1536. The original document, regretably, is not preserved.

Pigafetta returned to Italy after the trip. He died in his native city in 1534.

Beinecke MS 351[edit]

Beinecke manuscript 351 of Yale University's Beinecke Rare Book and Manuscript library is a fair copy of Pigafetta's Journal of Magellan's Voyage in French translation:

  • Navigation et descouurement de la Inde superieure et isles

de Malucque ou naissent les cloux de Girofle faicte par Anthoine Pigaphete, dated about 1525. Four copies are known to have been made.

The first owener was likely Vincentin Cheuallier de Rhodes Commanceant en lan Mil V^^cc et xix. [dedication, in red:] Anthoyne Pigaphete Patricie Vincentin et Cheuallier de Rhodes a Illustrissime et tres excellent Seigneur Philippe de Villers L [erasure] leadam inclite grand Maistre de Rhodes son seigneur esserueratissime. f. 2v blank

2. ff. 3r-98vPrologue de Anthoine Pigaphete sur le present liure sien traictant. La nauigation des isles de Malucque...Chapitre Premier. Pource quil y a plusieurs gentz curieux (tres illustre et tres reuerend Seigneur) qui non seullement se contentent descoutter et scauoir...au tres illustre et noble seigneur Philippes de Villiers Lisleadan tres digne grand maistre de Rhodes. Fin. f. 99r ruled, but blank; f. 99v continues notes from f. 1r

    A journal of Ferdinand Magellan's voyage around the world in 1522, written

by Antonio Pigafetta (ca. 1480/91 - ca. 1534), an Italian gentleman from Vincenza who survived the trip. Beinecke MS 351, the text of which is divided into 57 numbered chapters, is the most complete and most handsomely produced manuscript of the four surviving witnesses to the text; the original, probably in Italian, is now lost. The two other French manuscripts, also copied in the first half of the 16th century, are Paris, B. N. MSS fr. 5650 and fr. 24224; the only manuscript extant from the Italian tradition is Milan, Biblioteca Ambrosiana MS L. 103 Sup., of approximately the same date as the French manuscripts. An abridged French text was printed at Paris for Simon de Colines, Le voyage et navigation faict par les Espaignolz es Isles de Mollucques (no date, probably ca. 1526-36); for a modern edition see J. Denuce, Pigafetta: Relation du premier voyage autour du monde par Magellan 1519-22, Recueil de voyages et de documents pour servir a l'histoire de la geographie 24 (Antwerp and Paris, 1923) pp. 29-225 (MS 351 = C), with a description of the Beinecke manuscript on pp. 11-14.

    Parchment (fine), ff. i (paper) + ii (parchment) + i (original parchment

flyleaf) + 98 (foliated 2-99) + ii (parchment) + i (paper), 276 x 184 (195 x 122) mm. 27 long lines, or in 2 columns for vocabulary lists (ff. 19v-20r, 51v-53r, 83r-84v). Ruled faintly in red ink; single inner vertical and horizontal bounding lines; double outer vertical bounding lines; additional ruling in outer margins for notes; all bounding lines full length and full across.

    I-XII^^8, XIII^^2.
    Written in elegant humanistic bookhand with script often resting above the

rulings; marginal notes and headings in a more cursive script that inclines toward the right.

    Twenty-three beautifully drawn and illuminated maps, mostly full-page,

surrounded by gold frames, and with scrolls superimposed that contain the identifying legends for islands and land masses. Subjects of maps are as follow; we give the title as it appears in the text of the manuscript: f. 21r figure du destroict Pathagoniques. De la region de Pathagonie, Mer ocean, De la mer Pacifique, Et aultres Capz; f. 23r figure des isles infortunees; f. 25v figure de lisle des larrons et leurs barquettes [with two figures in a boat]; f. 29r figure de lisle des bons signes. Et des quatre aultres isles Cenalo, Hinnangar, Ibusson, Abarien; f. 35v figure du cap de Gatighan, Des isles de Mazzaua, Bohol, Ceilon, Baibai, Polo, Canighan, Tigobon, et Pozzon [legends on scrolls not filled in]; f. 53v Cy apres sont figurees les isles de Zzubu, Mattan, et Bohol; f. 54r En lautre figure est lisle de Panilonghon; f. 56r figure de lisle de Caghaian; f. 57r [no title] Isle of Pulaoan; f. 62v figure de lisle de Burne et du lieu ou sont les fueilles vifues; f. 65r figure des cinq isles Benaian, Calagan, Butuan, Cippit et Maingdanao; f. 66r figure des isles Zzolo, Cauit, et aultres; f. 67v figure des isles Ciboco et aultres; f. 68r figure des isles Sanghir, Nuzza, Cheai, Camanuzza, Cheaua, Lipan, Cabaluzzar, Cabiao, Cauiao; f. 69r figure des isles Meau, Paginzzara, Zzoar, etc.; f. 85r figures des isles Giailolo, Mutara, Tarenate, et Chir; [cartouche on map:] Toutes les isles en ce liure mises. sont en laultre Emispere du monde aux Antipodes; f. 85v figure des cinq isles ou naissent les cloux de girofle et de leur arbre [with drawing of clove tree]; f. 87r figure de isles de Bacchian, etc.; [legend on map:] En ceste isle habitent les Pigmei; f. 87v Aultre figure des isles Ambalao, Ambon, Tenetun, Lumatola, et Sullach; f. 88v figure des isles Bandan, Zzorobua, Rossonghin, et aultres; f. 90r figure des isles Zzolot, Nocemamor, et aultres; f. 92r figure des isles Timor, Cabanaza, et aultres; f. 93r figure de la grand mer.

    Decorative initials, 4- to 3-line, rose or blue highlighted with white, on

gold rectangular grounds edged in black, contain flowers in contrasting colors or strawberries and green and chartreuse leaves. Gold initials, 2-line, on red rectangular grounds or on red and blue grounds (divided diagonally or horizontally) with gold highlights. Gold paragraph marks, 1-line, on rectangular grounds that alternate red and blue, with gold highlights; rectangular line-fillers in red and gold, also highlighted with gold. Headings for chapters and titles for maps within text, as well as notes in margin entered by same scribe, in red or blue.

    Binding:  s. xix.  Red goatskin, gold-tooled.  Bound by Duru in 1851 (note on

f. i verso). Disbound and mounted for photographic reproduction for the facsimile edition by Harold Tribolet at the Extra Bindery of the Lakeside Press. Rebacked with extraordinary skill.

Written in France ca. 1525. Although some scholars have suggested that Beinecke MS 351 is the dedication copy presented to the Grand Master of Rhodes by Pigafetta, there is no firm evidence to support this hypothesis; all four extant manuscripts contain the dedicatory inscription to the Grand Master (see art. 1). First known owner is Jean Cognet, gentleman of the chamber and apothecary of Jean de Guise (1498-1550), Cardinal of Lorraine (f. 2r: anagram of Cognet: "Ne age cito"; arms on f. 1v: azure, a chevron or between three lilies argent); his presentation to Christophe de Gastinois, the Cardinal's secretary (inscription on f. 1v: "Viro clarissimo, eruditissimo, et integerrimo, Christophoro Gastynaeo, Illustrissimi Cardinalis a Lotharingia ex consilijs secretioribus Senatori, et libellorum supplicum Magistro dignissimo Ioannes Cognetius eidem Principi a Pharmacis et Cubiculis hunc librum D. D." with Gastinois arms in wreath above: azure, a fess argent, in chief 3 estoiles or, in base a phoenix or rising from flames proper). Belonged to the Abbey of St. Leopold at Nancy; inscription in upper margin of f. 1v: "Sancti Leopoldi Nanceiani an. 1720." Unidentified notes of s. xix on ff. 1v and 99v discuss the possibility that MS 351 is the original dedication copy. In 1841 the French geographer R. Thomassy ("La relation du premier voyage autour de monde a-t-elle ete composee en francais par Antoine Pigaphete...," Bulletin de la Societe de Geographie, 2nd ser. 20 [1843] pp. 165-83) examined the manuscript when it was in the library of a certain M. Beaupre, a judge at Nancy, presumably Jean-Nicolas Beaupre, (1795-1869; Dictionnaire de Biographie Francaise, v. 5, p. 1163). Sold by Potier in Paris, March 1851 (no. 506); Felix Solar sale (Paris, Techener, April 1861, no. 3238). From the collection of Guglielmo Libri (1802-69); his sale (Sotheby's, 25-29 July 1862, no. 456) where it was acquired by Sir Thomas Phillipps (no. 16405; tag on spine, note on f. i verso). Robinson sale (Cat. 83, 1953, pp. 96-105); purchased from the Robinsons in 1964 by Edwin J. Beinecke for the Beinecke Library.

Bibliography: H. Harrisse, Bibliotheca Americana Vetustissima... Additions (Paris, 1872) p. xxxii.

    J. A. Robertson, Magellan's Voyage around the World (Cleveland, 1906) v.

2, pp. 260-64.

    T. E. Marston, "Around the World in 1080 Days," Gazette 39 (1965) pp.

101-04.

    R. A. Skelton, Magellan's Voyage:  A Narrative Account of the First

Circumnavigation by Antonio Pigafetta (New Haven, 1969) v. 1: Introduction and translation of text, v. 2: facsimile, in color, of Beinecke MS 351.

    L. Peillard, Pigafetta:  Relation du premier voyage autour du monde par

Magellan 1519-22 (Geneva, 1970) pp. 52-56.


One of the viewpoints of those who study Culture is respect for the values of others. Thus a man who might be imbued with the innate superiority of cricket may find it unacceptable to learn that football or soccer is favored by others on the Planet. Hence a ground rule not to favor Cricket at the expense of Curling, say, would tend to be good governance for the Encyclopedia. By this analogy, I hope it is clear that we cannot reasonably expect to include Cricket in the eight main categories on the Main Page. The rationale for the existing 8 categories can be found on Main Page talk. Ancheta Wis 21:39, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
It should be clear that we need to talk about governance on a big scale before we can talk about something as personal as Religion. Good manners, civility, and the Higher Things kind of go out the window, in a crisis, until we have a sense of the political power behind an institution in the face of a crisis. In other words, political power rules our world today. Unfortunately, Human beings tend to ignore the Higher Things until they are good and ready. It ought to be crystal clear that Religion cannot be one of the things imposed on one person by another; it has to come from within that person, or else it is another name for Hypocrisy. Ancheta Wis 21:39, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
But I need to retreat to some sports analogies in the face of the looting etc. as the aftermath of disasters like hurricane Katrina; no matter whether it be cricket or football we better listen to the coaches and the umpires for the governance of the institution.
Upon re-reading this, I may have just constructed an argument for making Category:Religion a sub-category of Category:Personal life. I am not sure if that was the intention of the editor above. Ancheta Wis 01:01, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
And yes, if today's politics dictates that one love cricket at the expense of football (insert favorite institution here) these are indictments of the institutions. Ancheta Wis 01:01, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
One of the rules for the study of the sub-categories within Category:Culture is respect for the value. Please bring up any issues within the category if you find that some value is not properly treated by an editor. I will put a watch on Category:Culture/governance to do what I can for any entries which might require mediation. My motivation for this watchlist item is that we do not intrinsically know just what constitutes a survivable value or behavior for our civilization. Thus for us to label an item with a pejorative is culture-bound behavior. That may or may not be useful for the future.
No implication meant. Jefferson's 3 categories are independent of the 3 color-coded groups on the Main Page. It is just that 3 is a lot simpler than 8. 8 is good because it is a barrier to the temptation to add just one more category, that's all we need is one more category. 8 just starts to overflow the small brains of Homo sapiens sapiens.
On a related note, our current programming languages and other conceptual structures are way too complicated for the small brains of Homo sapiens sapiens. We need help. Creeping featuritis is one of the enemies of small-brained man. We need to protect ourselves from ourselves, to quote from the TV ad. Ancheta Wis 22:35, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
While we are in the water, so to speak, it occurs to me that 8=2^3 so we could have a hypercube on the main page. 3 of the categories could be the index on a base of 2. Thus we could have, for example 2 orthogonal dimensions be fundamental categories, say for example Space and Time. If we take the values of the index to be 0, +1, +2 then that could an index into, for example

Disambiguating this is hard work. I have no insights other than the general statement which you are critiquing. The only thing I can think of to approach this is to rework some of the text from the Ethics article, but substitute values/goals for each instance of the word Ethics: --
  • Assumptions about values or goals which underpin human behaviour are reflected in every social science, including:
  • anthropology because of the complexities involved in relating one cultural value to another,
  • economics because of its role in the distribution of scarce resources,
  • political science because of its role in allocating power,
  • sociology because of its roots in the dynamics of groups,
  • law because of its role in codifying constructs like mercy and punishment,
  • criminology because of its role in rewarding valued behaviour and discouraging unethical goals, and
  • psychology because of its role in defining, understanding, and treating unethical values or goals.
  • Values or goals have also been extended to the hard sciences, such as biology (as bioethics) and ecology (as environmental ethics). As these fields become more complex and deal with more situations, the application of values/goals in those fields can also become more complex.

Ancheta Wis 22:52, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes! I absolutely agree that mathematics seeks something different from science -- even an epistemic difference. I mean proof rather than evidence -- mathematicians seek true statements, scientists seek plausible statements which can be reliably depended upon. But mathematicians have learned from scientists who were forced to do mathematics to get their concepts straight. Just like what has been going on in the foundations of quantum mechanics. (But I have been taught that religion seeks certainty (i.e. Truth) of the same "type" as mathematical truth. I do not speak with authority here. It just seems as if that is the impulse behind the search for religion.) And in law, the Truth is that which can be paid for or punished. (I am not speaking from knowledge here. These are impressions.) So what does it mean to label the impulse for Truth? I am not qualified to speak. It is clear that we all seek it. Especially Wikipedians. Like Goodness, and Beauty, Truth is tempting, comforting. Certainly truth for its own sake can be damaging, like the type of truth a "friend" tells another, which might do damage.
It appears that you are countering the statement because each person is different, their values are different, their goals are different, and therefore no general statement can be made. But I repeat, that if the conditions are made precise, as I attempted to sketch above, it should be possible to isolate just where our differences in definitions, values, and goals lie, and to lay out an ecology where the fields can coexist peacefully.

If I may be allowed to give some example cases:

Law and Mathematics. When Kurt Goedel was taking his U.S. Citizenship exam, he felt compelled to disclose the bug in the U.S. Constitution which allows for the installation of a dictatorship in the government. Einstein attempted to shush him, and the bemused Judge let the statement pass, but nothing was served by Goedel expressing the Truth. If we examine the interrelationships critically, it appears that these fields are independent of each other, and that one deals with political power, and the other one proof. So in this example, it appears that your position is that the fields should not be allowed to use the same word in the different contexts of their respective fields. (I am not comfortable with this logical conclusion, which is irrelevant, of course.)

Law and Science.

  • The nuclear waste disposal systems which have been under development since 1990 have been specified to hold for 1 million years. The salt reservoirs which are meant to hold the nuclear waste are meant to seal over the waste drums. Since no seawater has existed in the regions of the U.S. since the time of the North American Inland Seaway 100 million years ago, the waste disposal appears to be safe for a period l00 times longer than the existence of humankind, but that future lifeforms are at risk. Since the waste fields will exist longer than the projected period of existence of the U.S., plans have been laid to mark the waste fields with terrifying sculptures to mark them as areas to be avoided. Truth in both fields appears to be able to coexist.
  • Global warming. No one seems to agree, according to Wikipedia.

Computers. The initial grammar for the C Programming Language was not logically complete and a hack had to be inserted to get the parser to compile all the constructs of the language. Nonetheless, C survived in this partial state of logical validity for a decade before it was cleaned up. But in the interim, some terrific progress was made in computation, world-wide, irregardless of the mathematical perfection of the language. So the Truth loses here too.

Religion and Science. When the Catholic Church held hegemony 500 years ago in Europe, and no sailor could stich a sail without uttering a prayer, Magic was forbidden and no Scientific community was allowed to exist under suspicion of sorcery. Thus Giambattista della Porta's society was dissolved. Eventually Truth won out here.

The picture that is emerging is that partial Truth is the condition in each of these cases, and that evolution of understanding is the norm. Thus the statement that "Truth is sought (etc.)" seems to hold.


Ancheta Wis 22:29, 14 August 2005 (UTC)


Culture | Geography | History | Life | Mathematics | Science | Society | Technology|



Truth and Myth[edit]

While it is true that truths can be believed, myths can also be believed. But a myth can be believed for the power of its story. Is the big-tent philosophy to hold here? Or does a story have to pay a price for admission to the article? Or can anything come in just because it was a member of the family?

What about values? Values drive behavior; myths illustrate values; where does one draw the line for this article? I am told that myths do not have to be true, in order to be believed-in. Just because someone wants something to be true, does not make that something true. Ancheta Wis 21:45, 30 July 2005 (UTC)


The ostensive definition article seems to state that we use our experiences as psychological archetypes (myths) which we then prototype (model) for practical uses. For example red things attract our attention, but a red flag cautions us about something. Ironically, when I click on the red flag article, my statement above only covers one meaning. I have observed that skilled communicators, for example, the executives of large corporations, can actually state things that can be interpreted with multiple meanings, all at the same time. Ancheta Wis 00:24, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

A scenario[edit]

Several Saturdays ago, I was discussing the article with friends, when a thump occurred on the wall outside. One friend esplained that was merely a mother bird, who had glimpsed her reflection on a sheet of plexiglass outside, interpreted the image as an intruder, and attempted to chase it off from her nest, thus thumping the wall.

There is, of course, a similarity to the the "Allegory of the Cave" (Plato, The Republic, Book VII), with a twist. The bird is not deluded; she is merely acting in accord with her nature. But what about us? Are we wrong to feel superior to the bird, simply because we know "the truth"? Aren't we also in the same fix as the bird, with our partial understanding of a situation? Is it ever realistic to presume that we can ever know the "whole truth"? Are we reduced to following myths, such as the hope that we can indeed attain "the truth"? Or can it only be degrees of truth, ranging from 0 (false) to 1 (true)?.

It would do no good to explain the concept of the difference in the dielectric constants of air and plexiglass, which is the root cause of the reflection of the birds image, to that bird. That type of truth is worthless to the bird. It's not worth much to anyone who isn't interested in it. In other words, there is a degree of marketability in a truth.


I have a modest proposal, which is to funnel all DotSix items as appendices to Archive 6 (mnemonic: 6 for .6). If anyone wishes to correspond with .6, then they can be free to do so on that subpage. If anyone wishes to move .6 items to the end of Archive 6, then they can continue the thread there.

If anyone has updates to Archive 5, then improvements such as the recovery of a more complete history can be made to 5. If .6 wishes to revert, which will probably happen, then that can be noted in the RFC and the RFAr.

If it is not obvious, .6 learned his concepts and manners on the UseNet mailing lists. I can be more specific, but will hold off for now. Suffice it to say that he has made enemies wherever he lands. But the logical fallacy accusations, even the sig or emoticon he uses were laid on him, and he reuses them now. If challenged, I will simply give the URL with the proof that he simply reuses what he has unearthed on UseNet.

In addition, it is clear that it doesn't matter what gets written, either to the article or to the talk page. DotSix' agenda is to game the system, and Tit for tat is DotSix' strategy. DotSix' objective is to gain concessions and eventually take control, web page after web page, infecting the entire encyclopedia. No matter what gets on the page, if it is not under DotSix' aegis, it will be gummed up with delaying tactics, non-resolution, confusion. Can you imagine articles filled with pages filled pathetic sentences like his version of True? The world would be the poorer for a DotSix-controlled encyclopedia.

DotSix does not understand that in the Prisoner's Dilemma, Nice Guys finish first and that Trolls finish last, in the long run.

To DotSix:

Imprecation: Return to those regions of the UseNet from whence you came! (Sprinkle WikiWater here.) Leave this site! (WikiBlessings here.) Live peaceably amongst your kin! Appropriate behavior will reincarnate you as a higher form! Blessings upon you! Blessings upon you! (Sinatra music here.) (WikiIncense.) (Choir.)

DotSix stands before the Arbitrators:

  • What say you, .6.
    • Honored Ones, I beseech yon Jimbo, in the name of all that is NPOV, give me one more chance!
  • The others are displeased, .6.
    • Rubs his knuckles, pops one: Sire, they are irrational God-believers, prone to Tyranny. Consign them to a 24-hour ban, as I have so cruelly been treated; let them gnash their teeth and rub their snouts.
  • You are hereby banned for 48 hours, .6. Leave us.

(Choir, crescendo. Fade to black.) Wikipedia logo flashes on. Life goes on. .6 returns to the .6 bucket. Truth prevails. Eventually.

No. DotSix, according to your trail on the web, you have made ample numbers of enemies, who have even listed your IP address in proof. Your Internet Trolling behavior merely wastes time for those of us who are committed to a better encyclopedia. Your strategy is clear: Tit for tat but you are not interested in procedure or convention. Your behavior demonstrates that you are simply trying to hijack the encyclopedia. Shall I ask how your money-making schemes are going? I think I have that figured out. Does #1756 mean anything to you, DotSix?

How about writing something that you are expert on, like fine objects from Baluchistan? That should interest the web sniffers. You are already on lists. Keep adding to the evidence against you. Does it make sense to encapsulate the .6 cycles into Archive 6? Lots of repetition. Episodes are instructive examples of types of gaming behavior: .6's strategy is Tit for Tat, gaming the system away from Nash Equilibrium and generally stopping progress on the article.

Now that Sasquatch has blocked DotSix for a few days, here is also a systematic list of names used by the DotSix troll, along with proof that this troll resolves down to the DotSix IP address:

Is it alright to consider the RfAr effectively resolved, then? The situation has played out, per Wikipedia policy, and the Arbitration Committee can move this off its urgent list? Ancheta Wis 08:07, 14 August 2005 (UTC) alt.atheism.org #1756 R. Clay Stewart ? 67.182.26.29

A google search for this user reveals a database of names and IP addresses:
Mr Logic is a name accorded him on alt.atheism.
Skeptic is another name he uses on alt.atheism.
Dixit <dix@nospam.com> 17-May-2004 8-Oct-2004 Comcast Online 67.168.191.115
Diixiit <diiix@nospam.com> 14-Jun-2004 18-Jun-2004 Comcast Online 67.168.191.115
X <X@nospam.net> 8-Oct-2004 16-Dec-2004 Comcast Online 67.182.145.198
eggs (eggs@nospam.com) 29-Nov-2004 15-Dec-2004 Comcast Online 67.182.145.198
XL XL@XL.net 17-Dec-04 19-Jan-2005 Comcast Online 67.182.145.198
Long <long@nospam.net> 16-Jan-2005 3-Feb-2005 67.182.157.6
Tygasi tygasi@tygasi.net 30-Jan-2005 3-Feb-2005 Comcast Online 67.182.157.6
Atheistagnostic <atheistagnos...@nospam.net> 2-Feb-2005 13-Mar-2005 Comcast Online 67.182.157.6
Jake <j@nospam.net> 20-Feb-2005 20-Feb-2005 Comcast 67.182.157.6
Incubus 15-Mar-05 16-Apr-2005 67.182.157.6
JHC j...@nospam.net 16-Apr-05 19-Apr-2005 67.182.157.6
Loadnlock <l...@nospam.net> 17-Apr-2005 17-May-2005 67.182.157.6
Pesche <pes...@nospam.net> 9-May-2005 10-May-2005 Comcast 67.182.157.6
Sam Jankis 15-May-2005 17-May-2005 Comcast Online 67.182.157.6

The article on Truth is currently hostage to a gamer. You could the read the edit history for the last 10 days to see how the article is being gamed. Then the reaction of Banno to the edits on Knowledge and the NPOV article becomes understandable. The gamer is very clear about his strategy and goal: The strategy is Tit for Tat and the goal is to force a negotiation. His demands are clear. The gamer's arsenal includes the tools of Rhetoric and he literally has nothing to lose. The best we can hope for is to let him state his agenda, as nothing anyone writes has any hope for survival as long as the gamer has a Save button at his disposal. Ancheta Wis 22:19, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
The history of the Truth article is one of Nash Equilibrium. As long as there is only one gamer, he can always disrupt the equilibrium, using Tit for Tat. (It doesn't matter what the words are in the article; the gamer's observed behavior is clear.) Since there are many altruists on the article, a gamer can always take advantage of each one, using all the tools of Rhetoric, including Shifting the Ground, etc. If there ever get to be more gamers than sincere editors, the game is over. The past 10 days have been instructive in that it exposes issues about the structure of the Encyclopedia. But it will take some cycles of edit/evaluate/administer to ensure some recognition of the character of the gamers.



Statement by Ancheta Wis[edit]

The article on Truth is currently hostage to a gamer - DotSix. You can the read the edit history from June 10 through to see how the article is being gamed. Then the reaction of Banno to the edits on Knowledge and the NPOV article becomes understandable. The gamer is very clear about his strategy and goal: The strategy is Tit for Tat and the goal is to force a negotiation. His demands are clear. The gamer's arsenal includes the tools of Rhetoric and he literally has nothing to lose.
The history of the Truth article is one of Nash Equilibrium. As long as there is only one gamer, he can always disrupt the equilibrium, using Tit for Tat. (It doesn't matter what the words are in the article; the gamer's observed behavior is clear.) Since there are many altruists on the article, a gamer can always take advantage of each one, using all the tools of Rhetoric, including Shifting the Ground, etc. If there ever get to be more gamers than sincere editors, the game is over. The past month and a half have been instructive in that it exposes issues about the structure of the Encyclopedia. But it has taken some cycles of edit/evaluate/administer to ensure some recognition of the character of the gamer(s). It behooves the Encyclopedia to recognize the danger of multiple instances of this behavior, acting in concert. The effect has been clear: no progress on the article since the appearance of the gamer.
It ought to be clear that DotSix learned his manner of communication from UseNet, where gunslingers abound, where one-upmanship is paramount, and that DotSix has in fact gained enemies on the Internet, with a database on his behavior, and in fact on his DotSix IP address. Everything is to be gained by banning him. I can in fact show a post where he learned his smirk signature, and no, he did not invent it. He simply copied it from his adversaries, who have bestowed a name on him. Ancheta Wis 02:56, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Infinite truths[edit]

Just as the possible amount of knowledge is infinite, there are an infinite number of truths; therefore there are an infinity of possible points of view on both knowledge and truth. This statement is true both from a mathematical basis and from a scientific basis. Dot6's insistence on equal billing for his POV (along with the infinity of others) is thus impossible to implement, in the entire article, as well as in the lead section. If it is impossible, in principle, to give equal billing, Dot6's demands cannot be negotiated. Another basis must be found, in order for the article to progress. As it stands, the article on truth is hostage. One possible line of development is for Dot6 to proclaim that out of the infinity of possibilities, his POV is ... and therefore ... This can be dealt with by defining an article which he can write to, alone. Another possibility is for Dot6 is to proclaim this article is his alone, and that others are holding it hostage. I believe that this will be his line of attack. Ancheta Wis 08:47, 22 July 2005 (UTC)



Sock puppet template example

Wisdom[edit]

Wisdom is often meant as the ability and desire to make choices that can gain approval in a long-term examination by many people. In this sense, to label a choice "wise" implies that the action or inaction was strategically correct when judged by widely-held values. However true wisdom cannot be measured in terms of popular consensus.

To acknowledge the existence of wisdom assumes order and absolutes. Wisdom is recognizing the difference between good and evil and choosing what is good. To acknowledge wisdom is also to acknowledge consequences for unwise or foolish choices.

A wise person is often called a "sage." The technical philosophical term for the opposite of wisdom is "folly."

As with all decisions, a wise decision must be made with incomplete information. But to act wisely, a sage must plan a reasonable future situation, desire the outcome to be broadly beneficial, and then act.

A standard philosophical definition says that wisdom consists of "making the best use of available knowledge."

Many modern authorities on government, religion and philosophical ethics say that wisdom connotes an "enlightened perspective." This perspective is often defined in a utilitarian way, as effective support for the long-term common good.

Insights and acts that many people agree are wise tend to:

  • arise from a viewpoint compatible with many ethical systems,
  • serve life, public goods or other impersonal values, not narrow self-interest
  • be grounded in but not limited by past experience or history and yet anticipate future likely consequences
  • be informed by multiple forms of intelligencereason, intuition, heart, spirit, etc..

Traditionally, wisdom is related to virtue. It is tautological that it is wise to be virtuous. Some philosophers believe that virtues harmonize, that is, in order to succeed at any virtue, one must succeed somewhat at all of them. In this view, sages must have virtues such as humility, compassion, composure, and being able to laugh at oneself. Many liberals and religions select a wider set of virtues for sages, including impartial love, tolerance for dissonance, paradox, nuance, ambiguity and uncertainty.

Some people say that the most universally and usefully-wise sages sense, work with and align themselves and others to life. In this view, sages help people appreciate the intrinsic wholeness and interconnectedness of life.

Classically, wisdom is considered to come with age. Some religions consider wisdom a gift granted by God. The Jewish book of Proverbs in the Old Testament states `Fear of God is the beginning of Wisdom`. However, the Christian Bible as a whole recognises that wisdom can come both as a gift of God and through man's efforts (study reference).


See also[edit]


Some Wikipedians have formed a project to better organize information in articles related to Early Web History. This page and its subpages contain their suggestions; it is hoped that this project will help to focus the efforts of other Wikipedians. If you would like to help, please inquire on the talk page and see the to-do list there.

For more information on WikiProjects, please see Wikipedia:WikiProjects and Wikipedia:WikiProject best practices.

WikiProject on Early Web History[edit]

Mission statement[edit]

Some editors have noted that Wikipedia fails to include information which would be useful to inform future generations of the Early History of the World Wide Web. Even today, there are many thousands of individuals who were born after the nascence of the Web, and have no perspective of the heady days of early technology, tight-knit communities, and the early examples of sites that were the forefathers of now commonplace practices like blogging, search engines and others.

To the extent that Wikipedia contains some information on early websites, it is disjointed and unlinked; perhaps a page on the WELL gives a capsule version of its long history, and other examples contain their own, but nothing links and binds these tidbits in a way that could impart an understanding of the paradigmatic change vanguarded by a few websites and a few core technologies which have redefined human interaction.

In addition, due to the ephemeral nature of online electronic communications, many of the artifacts of the Early Web are not available, rendering it as distant and inscrutable to many as the Indus Valley Civilization. In the rapid evolution of technologies and the massive influx of new money and Web participants over less than two decades, servers were upgraded and backup tapes were discarded. Even the Internet Archive project only contains archives for some websites dating back to 1996.

Our bold purpose in this WikiProject is to find and bind much of this dissappearing information, linking together existing articles and writing new and informative articles with fully verifiable sources, to inform children of todays and tomorrow's Web of the history which preceded them.

When we speak of the early Web, it is a concept with a hazy definition which we intend to clarify; one helpful editor noted that it might be demarcated as anything prior the IPO of Netscape in 1995. One of the first intents of this project is to determine a precise scope of time by consensus. However, to those who were there in the Web's pioneer days, it is a time known emotionally to the heart, which is as memorable and thrilling as a first kiss.

Notability[edit]

The following are some suggested' notability guidelines to supplement WP:WEB:

  • Nearly any web content from circa 1991 is inherently notable by being a member of a small and historic set. This notability gradually decreases towards 1994.
  • Media references to a website from approximately 1995 and before should be given heavier weight than at WP:WEB
  • Prominent placement in early web sites already established as notable guides, e.g. the NCSA Mosaic What's New page
  • Firsts (and maybe seconds and thirds) of any kind: first comedy site, first "X of the Day" site, first personal web page, first e-commerce app...
  • Traffic per day reports, compared to some baseline of web traffic over time. That is, it's pretty easy to find someone saying "I get 6000 unique page hits a day now!" We look it up in our timeline and see if that's a lot for its day, or a little.
  • Factoid from a 1995 book I've got on web design: the number of Web servers increased 10,000% between June 1993 and Dec. 1994. In mid-1995, there were two to five million web documents, as opposed to an estimated 500 billion today.

Tasks[edit]

  1. Determine scope of timeframe (From: Tim Berners-Lee's first CERN site in 1991? Establishment of W3C in 1994? To: Netscape IPO in 1995? Perhaps release of Internet Explorer v3.0 in 1996?)
  2. Determine scope of subject matter (Early popular sites/communities? Early technologies? (CGI-BIN, early web servers?) Milestones? (when did the White House start their webpage?))
    1. Should we expand from just the web to include Usenet, possibly gopher?
  3. Lobby for a change to WP:WEB guidelines (as Zompist noted[2]) to clarify notability for websites from the early history of the Web
  4. Identify and list existing topical articles
  5. Let's do some free association to come up with ideas.
  6. Identify missing articles for creation
  7. Build the web!

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{{Infobox Early Web History }}


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WikiProject Deletion sorting[edit]

Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting is a new effort that attempts to classify various articles nominated for votes for deletion by major categories. The Early Web History-related articles at VFD are listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Early Web History.

Archives[edit]

Early Web History


Quotes[edit]

  • The only thing that we know is that we know nothing and that is the highest flight of human wisdom. - Leo Tolstoy

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How about using the existing wikipedia articles: The Khoisan are distinct from the Veddahs, who are in turn distinct from the Negritos. The Negritos are Pygmy-sized and are documented to have lived all over Southeast Asia up into Papua New Guinea. But neither the Negritos nor the Veddahs are known to have the click languages of the Khoisan. vedda cave drawings vedda faces The Negritos are documented to have been able to communicate with the Malay people as the Malays migrated into the Philippines, for example. The Malays call the Negritos orang asli (original people). It is possible that the ethnicity of the peoples was determined by multiple waves of migration from Africa to Asia, from Asia to Australia, from India to Asia, etc., in many possible permutations and combinations. It is unlikely for example, that the Negritos are directly descended from the forest Pygmies in Africa; for example, the Negritos did not have the polyphonic music of the forest Pygmies. My personal interest in this page is as preparation for a Wikipedia article on a certain highlander tribe of Papua New Guinea, and this page was going to be be my starting point. It may probably be more prudent to leave open the possibility that the San were a related part of a larger population stream out of Africa, with many stops along the way, and with many branches and merges of the ethnic groups. There is more variation in appearance among people within an ethnic group than variation in appearance among people from supposed separate ethnic groups, which makes conclusions based on appearance alone, problematic.
What is common to all these groups is that they are getting aced-out in the competition for the use of their ancestral lands. But that certainly does not make them all the same peoples.
Another commonality is that these peoples do not call themselves Negritos or Khoi or San or Veddah. They are still tribal, and have no name for themselves as a common people. Thus there is no sense of a common ethnicity among them, only one imposed by others on them. Certainly they do not share the same myths.
Headhunting was a common practice among some peoples of Southeast Asia, until the practice was extinguished by colonial authorities from Japan, England, Netherlands, US etc. Cannibalism was practiced in Papua New Guinea, but not in the the highlander tribe I intend to write about, according to the anthropologist who lived among them.

Paula Brown (1978). Highland Peoples of New Guinea. 258 pp. Index. ISBN 0-521-29249-2

Welcomes[edit]

Hello, welcome to Wikipedia. ... I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! snoyes 05:24, 9 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Tip: you can sign your name with ~~~~

Welcome by me, too! Optim 20:35, 17 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Wikireader[edit]

Thanks! I don't know much about the Wiki2PDF yet, haven't played much with it. I've basically taken over the project since Sverdrup has been busy. If you or anyone else is interested in the Bard, feel free to join in. Also, perhaps we can work on a model like that for the encyclopedic standards. Ideas? Lyellin 02:30, Nov 28, 2004 (UTC)

Waterfall model[edit]

All of the methods guiding this field are collations of all of these disciplines. Historically, the waterfall model used them, in order, in a cascade (hence the name). But the author of this method claimed he was misunderstood when the first generation of users followed the steps literally. Currently, it is acceptable practice to admit that coding and design can occur concurrently, and that a methodology can include collaborative disciplines; thus a designer, a tester (sometimes a member of the natural workgroup) and a coder might collaborate on a project, as peers. The following might be listed as the natural sequence, in jest, but which rings painfully true, for practitioners:

  1. Buy the T-shirts
  2. Write the code
  3. Write the specification (thus ensuring that the code and spec match)
  4. Hire the manager
  5. Release the code (so the user can find the bugs)
  6. Start fixing bugs
  7. Announce the upgraded version

Wave form of electromagnetic fields[edit]

Faraday formulated a physical picture for what are now called electromagnetic fields. Maxwell built upon Faraday's physical picture with an interlinked set of twenty equations in 1864 which explained the interactions between electric and magnetic field (they are the same field, essentially, electric and magnetic fields transforming from one to the other, as they propagate through space). Maxwell realized that light was electromagnetic in its nature. These ideas were confirmed when German physicist Heinrich Hertz discovered radio in 1888 and German physicist Wilhelm Roentgen detected X rays in 1895. Maxwell's equations were later reformulated in vector notation to emphasize their simple structure, as four vector equations.

Eston Hemings Jefferson (1808-c1853)[edit]

sally hemings' , probable Jefferson son, Professional musician Chillicothe, OH, mv Wisconsin 1852

Eston Hemings (1808-1856) was the youngest son of Sally Hemings. One of only five enslaved men freed in Thomas Jefferson's will, Hemings was trained as a carpenter by his uncle, master joiner John Hemmings. After his mother's death he moved with his wife, Julia Ann Isaacs, to Chillicothe, Ohio, where he was a professional musician and had a popular dance band. After 1850 Eston Hemings moved with his family to Wisconsin, where he changed his name and his racial identity. Julia Isaacs Jefferson was buried in Madison Wisconsin.

Lt. Col. John Wayles Jefferson son of Eston Hemings Jefferson

Windows IE dll components[edit]

Seperated? (Score:1) by MimsyBoro (613203) on Wednesday March 22, @04:53PM (#14975885) (Last Journal: Wednesday February 19, @01:29PM) Internet Explorer is made up of lots of DLL's almost all of which will stay in windows:

  • mshtml.dll -- Handles all the HTML rendering, is needed by lots of shell components
  • jscript.dll -- The Javascript engine -- like vbscript is part of Windows Script Hosting
  • wininet.dll -- The API that handles the communications on the Internet -- gotta stay!
  • urlmon.dll -- Implements the IMoniker interface to retrieve things via the Internet -- stays.
  • shdocvw.dll -- Implements the shell (what's inside explorer.exe) and also IE (what's inside of iexplore.exe) this they might actually seperate. But I doubt it, or even if they do there will be a shared library or lots of cross calls.