User talk:Anglicanus

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I cannot believe that people with names like "Anglicanus" and "StAnselm" are still trying to interfere with the Sydney Diocese! Don't tell me that there is some sort of imagined affinity! I can assure you that there is not! My advice is, avoid them! If they ever find out that you wear an alb, genuflect, or light candles, you will have your name taken down in a big black book. They have my name, and those of all my relatives, right back to the witch-hunts of the 17th-century.

I had a friend (ordained) who was once found chained to the altar rails of St John's, Darlinghurst, wearing nothing but a leather thong, a black lace corset, mascara and a large silver crucifix. He disappeared, shortly after, and was never seen again. When I asked, I was told that he had gone abroad. Further enquiry provoked the response that they had sent him as a missionary and he had been eaten by a cassowary, but I never believed it. They could probably have turned a blind eye to the corset, (given that it was Darlinghurst) but that crucifix brought him under grave suspicion. Amandajm (talk) 14:34, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Bwaaaaaa haaa haaa! Adamm (talkcontribs) 07:22, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
Have you been smoking those herbal cigarettes again? Anglicanus (talk) 12:40, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
Anglicanus, when I write "nominating" him and "appointing" her, then that is exactly what is meant, otherwise I wouldn't bother. One needs to draw these nice distinctions. Adamm, you see, plainly knows Sydney.... Amandajm (talk) 14:05, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks and Request[edit]

Thank you for your St. Augustine’s College edits. You made decisions about which I was ambivalent, e.g., whether to use British or American spelling and whether to use as many capitalized words as did old sources. Two things. (a) Should not the lack of citations tag be removed? (b) I have found some interesting photos online, but inserting them is beyond my Wiki-capacity.

I have fond memories of 1956-57 academic year that I spent at St. Augustine’s College, when it served as the Central College of the Anglican Communion. That was before the heavy motor traffic. We could safely bicycle in town and out to surrounding villages. Now to my request.

Would you be so kind as to review my draft at as a possible replacement for the current article on “St. Augustine’s Abbey” at I intended to expand and add inline citations to the current article. But I found that much of the present article is word-for-word the same as other web sites without citations. E.g. the whole first paragraph is the same as and That and the present article’s headings and lack of sources cited led me to write a possible replacement draft. Please give me your thinking about its possibilities and what needs to be done? Vejlefjord (talk) 23:54, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I wasn't too sure about some of the capitalisations as some seemed like they might have been proper names for things. I try not to change capitalisations unless I'm very confident of whether they should be treated as proper nouns or generic ones. Older publications as well as "inhouse" ones tend to capitalise many nouns which shouldn't be in contemporary English. Spelling is also often a problem as some English organisations still prefer the "Oxford" spellings with "z" instead of "s" as in American English.
Anything which plagiarises already published sources will need to be either removed or radically rewritten. I'll have a look at your draft as soon as I can. I've never uploaded a photo to Wikipedia but I can probably work out how to do it without too much difficulty.
I don't think I've ever been to St Augustine's even though I know Canterbury quite well from when I was a curate in the Diocese of Rochester in the mid-1980s and subsequent visits. All the best. Anglicanus (talk) 08:50, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

For contribution to articles about churches[edit]

St Michaels Anglican Cathedral Wollongong.jpg The St Michael's and All Angel's 'Gong
You surely deserve one of these. Amandajm (talk) 06:10, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Go 'head[edit]

On Catholic church, myself and ScitDe prefer your second proposal. Hilo48 also expresed support for a similar proposal by scittdei. So i hink its safe to make your addition. Thanks. Pass a Method talk 11:53, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

St James'[edit]

Thanks for your improvements.

About "St James' has been considered to be one of Greenway's finest works" as against "St James' is one of Greenway's finest works."

We are dealing with an architect who left ten buildings or part thereof: several churches, the barracks, a rectory, a courthouse, a porch, a small obelisk. There is no question that St James' is one of Greenway's finest works. There are only two contenders for the "finest" as St James' and St Matthew's have the edge on Hyde Park Barracks. No claim is being made that St James' is "the finest". And if we insist on "has been considered to be", then the question arises, "who has considered it to be?". It is one of those convoluted Wikimedia expressions with which I have no patience.

Please don't take this as a general grouch! I'm very happy with your improvements! Amandajm (talk) 02:35, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

P.S. the altar thing is bloody ridiculous, but we don't call it anything so popish in Sydney. (I don't think even St James' would do that! I'll ask. Amandajm (talk) 02:37, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

On the basis of your information I will accept the "one of the finest" wording. But please don't call my attempt to improve the wording in accordance with MOS principles as "nonsense". It wasn't "nonsense" in any way at all. The "who" question is answered by the reference(s).

As for "altar", I would be extremely surprised if St James' doesn't commonly use this word. Why should it follow the prevailing Sydney custom on this term when it doesn't do so on other theological and liturgical matters? "Altar" is nearly always the customary term used in Anglican churches such as St James' and the article's terminology should reflect that fact ~ not that of the majority of the diocese. Anglicanus (talk) 05:50, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

I think people generally call it the altar and all the Eucharists are written and referred to as Eucharist - either "Holy Eucharist" or "Choral Eucharist" or similar. Thank you for your corrections. They produce in me the response that seems to be known as "face-palm". I regard each one as a helpful lesson that hopefully, I can apply in my Wikipedia career. I am beginning to rely on them but my goal is not to need them. If I can reduce my error rate, it will be good. Beyond improving the article, they are teaching me a lot about the MOS. Cheers, (talk) 00:58, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you![edit]

Meissen-teacup pinkrose01.jpg It's time for tea! Amandajm (talk) 05:43, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
Thanks ~ I think I will have a cup of tea before I go to Benediction. Anglicanus (talk) 05:56, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
I am shaking my head in despair. You have changed the word "preachers" to "bishops". Understand this, "preachers" is the issue here, not "bishops". The notion of women bishops promotes eye-rolling, and nothing more. It has never been discussed, except when it was considered at the Lambeth Conference. I seem to remember that WE didn't attend.
I had a friend, recently deceased, who was licensed to preach by Harry Goodhew. Exceptional woman with a PhD and a huge commitment. Wasn't permitted to preach in our local church. She received regular invitations from the Uniting Church and the Congregational Church. Couldn't preach at St Michael's. Basically, she didn't have the balls.
It is possible for a woman to preach in conservative, Jesenite Sydney, if she has the right connections.
It is also possible if the woman already holds a license to preach and has the permission of a sympathetic local priest. This was the case with Sue Pain at St James'. She was invited by Bishop Richard Hurford as soon as he took up the position of rector there.
The church that I attended for twenty odd years, where I was verger, carillonist, a trustee of the historic Camperdown Cemetery and prime mover behind the restoration, was another oasis. We had an unusual congregation of people that came from all over Sydney, drawn by the fact that the preaching was excellent and the atmosphere generally accepting of diversity. We were a bastion for the Movement for the Ordination of Women, with Patricia Brennan, Eileen Baldry, Sue Pain etc as members of the congregation. In the 1990s our church sent three candidates out of the diocese for ordination: two women and a gay man who was already a deacon. Dear John, on the day he left, with the laying on of hands from the whole congregation, made a very telling comment "When I arrived at St Stephen's, I was one of the walking wounded." The majority of the congregation knew from experience what he meant.
In 1994, when women had been ordained in Perth, Adelaide and Melbourne, I organised a big celebratory service at St Stephen's. It was hugely successful. Every ordained woman who could possible get there came, from all over Australia. Moreover twenty (20!) male priests from the Sydney Diocese attended and showed their support. (I am sure that the observers of such things took a list of their names). The table was laid with the Communion vessels, and the service proceeded as if Holy Communion was about to take place, but when that point was reached, the lights were dimmed, the vessels ceremoniously removed, and two schoolgirls carried the bread and wine in a pottery jug and basket (women's business, as the Indigenous people say) over to the church hall, where Sue Pain ordained the sacraments. We followed the Communion with a Agape Feast, complete with everything that one eats with bread and wine. Fortunately, no-one seemed to have told the rector (who was fairly new to the parish and not entirely on top of such things) that there was a bylaw that no alcohol could be consumed in the church hall. A great time was had by all. Now, I am proud to say, my sister left Sydney Diocese for greener pastures, and was ordained in Canberra Goulburn.
A couple of other Sydney matters. Women are ordained as deacons. Sydney has always had a fairly large number of deaconesses assisting in parishes. Ordaining women as deacons did not in practice mean much more than dropping the "ess" off the end. However, Harry Goodhew used this to advantage, and, promptly upon becoming archbishop, made one of the women deacons an archdeacon. Ha!
Women deacons are allowed to conduct services, particularly in rural parishes with several churches, but there must always be a male head to direct her.
The notion of lay precedence at Communion (let's not call it "Eucharist") is that it downplays the priestly role and removes the requirement that a male is essential. Since only men can be priests, it means that when there is a shortage of priests, the formal necessity can be bipassed. The sacraments are not really that significant anyway. Not in a faith that denies the experiential. It's something nice that you do to remember Jesus. But, like the crucifixion, we don't put too much emphasis on it.
Then there is confirmation. We still do confirmation, because it's good for young people. However, Sydney has dispensed with the requirement (or tradition) that this laying on of hands should be done by a bishop. This is now done by the rector. (We went for a long time not calling the priest a "priest" but somehow, when Peter Jensen became bishop, he took to referring to himself as a priest, and to wearing the red robes that synod had previously discussed dispensing with.) Anyway, Sydney has four regional bishops, who have in times past done all the running around to parishes. And of course, the regional bishop has always been most welcome. Suddenly, the regional bishop has a purely administrative job, may be associated with the church that functions as regional cathedral, but no longer gets parish invitations. The regional bishops disappeared from the sight of the laity. But we did all know who our archbishop was, of course, because we saw him interviewed in the media, pretty often.
Young Moore College men have their headship role reinforced in their psych. Women have a role, doing what they do, ministering to other women, and teaching the children. Arrogance abounds. The teachings of Paul take precedence over those of Jesus, because they are all so much more clearly defined. Jesus spoke in parables, and led by example, but Paul explained matters and laid down rules. The Lord's Prayer has dropped from use at informal services. There is no presumption that Christians might be able to repeat it by heart. Young Sydney Christians have argued that Jesus only gave it as an example of how to pray. That doesn't mean we ought to actually use it. I have argued back that more than anything else, the Lord's Prayer unites Christians. That at any huge gathering (in St Peter's Square, for example) the sound of the Lord's Prayer being offered simultaneously be the languages of the globe is a moving and uniting experience that speaks powerfully of the "Church" (one holy catholic apostolic etc) as nothing else does. However, arrogance replaces the words of Christ with the words of whatever young man has been chosen to stand at the lectern. (i'm not denying the place of intercession here. ("Does this mean that you actually prayed at St Peter's?")
You might find this interesting: A guide to Anglican Liturgy for young Sydney Anglicans.
Amandajm (talk) 04:17, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

A Nudge[edit]

Please refer back to “77 Thanks and Request.” Is my request still on your “to do” list? While you are thinking about St. Augustine’s Abbey, you might be interested in reading Canon W. F. France’s booklet that I uploaded to, especially the addendum. Peace, Vejlefjord (talk) 21:37, 3 November 2013 (UTC)


I have complained about User:Eric Corbett's behaviour on the Wells Cathedral talk page. [1]

Watch your back. Amandajm (talk) 03:44, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. And good luck in trying to get an administrator to do anything sensible or appropriate about Eric's appalling behaviour. There is so much bullshit and hypocrisy going on with some of the administrators regarding Eric that it has become absurd and farcical. You may instead, like myself, find yourself receiving a rebuke from an administrator instead of Eric. One administrator has been ignoring Eric's repeated incivility to me and other editors while, in a bullying manner, blaming me and demanding that I withdraw a comment in response to his incivility to me. There is, of course, no way that I am going to withdraw my comment in such circumstances. That really would be hypocritical on my part and rewarding bullies such as Eric. The administrator simply doesn't "get it" and is continuing to make disingenous comments about me whenever s/he has the opportunity. Eric, meanwhile, seeks pity from other editors over my comment and has been suggesting, falsely and without any evidence whatsoever, that I'm pretending to be a priest and also of being a sockpuppet of some former administrator. The whole situation is very bizarre. Wasn't there once a wise person who said something about seeing a speck in someone else's eye whilst ignoring the beam in your own? All the best. Anglicanus (talk) 16:05, 24 November 2013 (UTC)


Thank you for your useful tweaks.

Re "considered", as I have said before, I don't go there if I can avoid it. If a thing is "considered famous", then it is famous.

This is about finest rather than "famous". There are good reasons why it is the finest, and you know them quite well. Almost every original statue at Salisbury was smashed. And the group at Exeter are mostly badly deteriorated and set into a peculiar layered facade, built piecemeal. Exeter claims they have the finest sculptured screen, outside France, of the 14th century.... or words to that effect. Well's facade is about 80-100 years earlier, so it is not a competitor in that round. Since this is about the combination of both architecture and sculpture, there is really no question.

Fletcher, Harvey, Swaan and Clifton-Taylor all make a very positive statement, then we have the opinion of five experts. (I might add that the architectural solutions on the facade at Salisbury are very simple, compared with those at Wells, though the end product is quite lovely.

Amandajm (talk) 08:09, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

G'day Rev![edit]

I see that you are still trying to improve upon Peter Jensen. How can you possibly imagine that there is room for improvement? Why don't you check out the new Bishop of Grafton instead. [2] There have been some very nasty things said. Don't believe them. Amandajm (talk) 11:11, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

December 2013[edit]

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John Storrs[edit]

Hi, In changing the inscription to mixed case you lost the accents in the Greek. Not being a hellenophone I have no idea if they are important - do you, or should we seek help from a suitable linguist? Would you prefer the inscription to be in a quotation box, similar to those under Richard_Watts_Charities#Six_Poor_Travellers_House? I'll happily reformat and cut/paste from the source this evening if you think it would look better. Regards, Martin of Sheffield (talk) 09:40, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

I don't know if the accents are important or not in modern Greek. It seems you know how to include them. A quotation box sounds like it could be a good idea. I'll leave all this up to you ~ but I greatly dislike quotations in another language without an English translation included. Cheers, Anglicanus (talk) 11:02, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
I'll have a poke around next Sunday when I'm next up the tower to see if there is a translation provided on the founder's documentation. I suspect though that it will be NT rather than modern Greek given the date and Storr's background. Due to H&S it's a pain to get up to the bell chamber itself so that may be out for a while. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 12:01, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
Ah yes, Koine Greek, I should have thought of that! My Greek is now almost evaporated but I can possibly work out the meaning. It's probably a New Testament verse. Cheers, Anglicanus (talk) 02:40, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
I found it. It's the end of 1 Corinthians 15:54 ~ "Death has been swallowed up in victory." It's a bit odd that the inscription is apparently in transliteration rather than the original Greek alphabet. Anglicanus (talk) 02:59, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
The source I was using was Love's Guide. After a bit more digging, including the picture of the tenor that is now linked to the citation, the inscription is in Greek letters. Last night I was hunting for a way to display small caps properly, the English part of the inscription is not set in titling but in small caps. I'll work on the quotebox shortly, but life is a bit hetic at the moment with my Father-in-Law in hospital and my Mother's funeral at the end of the week. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 10:29, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
Still haven't got small caps, but I think I've rendered the Greek correctly. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 23:13, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

I've reinstated the use of Rural Dean. It appears (see Rural Dean) that the term was even then archaic and perversely had nothing to do with the countryside, however it was the correct term at the time! Storr served as Rural Dean at St George’s and Westminster whilst he was actually Vicar at St. Peter's. I've added a footnote to (I hope) clarify this. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 23:13, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

I don't know what confused source you are relying on but the position of a "rural dean" or "area dean" refers to a ministry position in a deanery ~ not in a specific church or parish. So if there a deanery called the "Deanery of St George" then he can be called the "Rural Dean of St George" for instance ~ but not the "Rural Dean of St George's Church, Wherever". If a source is suggesting otherwise then it is mistaken. Anglicanus (talk) 05:17, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
I've just realised that my edit summary comment about his curacies and incumbencies wasn't entirely correct. Anglicanus (talk) 05:52, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
The confused source is the University of Cambridge, see [3] as per the citation. I've recently had a chat with a friendly cannon and DD who doesn't see the problem, deaneries were often named after the principal church within the deanery. I'll continue to investigate. As I'm sure you are aware Westminster is an area, not the eponymous abbey. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 23:49, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Consecration St james[edit]

You removed the dedication from the consecration arguing that a church is consecrated to God. I am not familiar with the Anglican Church but it is my understanding that a church is consecrated to the divine worship of God, not to God per se. Churches are designated for divine worship by a dedication or a blessing usually by a bishop. Saying that a church is consecrated to a given Saint is imho therefore correct. --Alberto Fernández Fernández (talk) 19:33, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Very few Anglicans, if any, regardless of their theological views, would say that a church is "consecrated" to a saint. Most would, however, say that a church's dedication is to a a certain saint. So I don't understand why you think your use of terminology can be correct. Anglicanus (talk) 07:33, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

Personal ordinariate[edit]

Congratulations on the work you have done on this article. I see that, at least in the geographical sense, which is the sense you mean, Scotland is included. When I changed "United Kingdom" to "England and Wales", I was thinking of the canonical rather than the geographical sense. The ordinariate was set up for the territory of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of England and Wales. Its FAQ, even in its latest version, says that, "no matter where a member of the Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham lives, within the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of England & Wales, they will in the first instance be under the ordinary ecclesial jurisdiction of the Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham, and not the diocese where they are territorially based". (The emphasis has been added by me, and I see that an older version of the FAQ, preserved here, has no comma breaking up the phrase "no matter where a member of the Ordinariate lives within England and Wales".) So, has the territory of the ordinariate been extended to cover Scotland? Or do its Scotland-based members come in the first instance, indeed totally, under the local bishops, as they would if they lived in France? Does the Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham have a formal deanery in Scotland? Is the ordinary a member also of the Bishops' Conference of Scotland? The ordinariate's website has a page headed "The Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham in Scotland", and another website that calls itself scotlandordinariate says on its page about clergy that "the oversight of The Personal Ordinariate of Our Lady of Walsingham here in Scotland" is one of the responsibilities of Monsignor John Broadhurst. Does he live in Scotland?

I leave it to you to decide whether to privilege the geographical sense, perhaps removing "Wales" or writing "England and Wales, Scotland". The clearly geographical/political expression "United Kingdom" would not do, since Northern Ireland is excluded canonically (with only one episcopal conference for the whole island) and perhaps, if the ordinariate has no member living there, also geographically. Esoglou (talk) 16:00, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

I believe that there is a formal deanery in Scotland but this may not be correct. In any case it seems clear enough that the OLW ordinariate extends to Scotland in some official or semi-official way. John Broadhurst doesn't live in Scotland. I don't know what relationship the ordinary has with the Scottish bishops conference. The situation with Scotland seems similar to that of Canada and I think it probably should be included in the geographical listing. Anglicanus (talk) 16:23, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
I wonder now if there is a problem with saying that the ordinariate "exists" in Scotland rather than that it has members or affiliates or something else in Scotland. But I think it best to let things rest for some time in the hope that a solution will appear. And you, from your geographical viewpoint, may well think the canonical distinction too subtle. Esoglou (talk) 16:50, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Anglicanus, some of those citations you're removing are not blogs. Anglocatholichinge (talk) 27 December 2013 (UTC)

But most of them are. I am tired of trying to clean up your messy editing. Do something about it yourself! Anglicanus (talk) 16:14, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
St Andrews Cathedral Sydney Magi 01.JPG Happy New Year, 2014
Many Happy Collaborations! Amandajm (talk) 08:57, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

The Epiphany Window, St Andrew's Cathedral, Sydney, by John Hardman & Co. of Birmingham

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Trevor Huddleston[edit]

Anglicanus, You deleted every single change I made to this article saying I had violated many copyrights. I accept that I am new to this lark and had assumed that the requirement to cite evidence meant quoting. If I now understand that is not possible then I will leave out direct quotes in future.

However, the article as printed needs several alterations to correct factual errors.

1. To say TH "never married" in the introduction is incorrect. He was not free to marry as he was a member of a religious order. Would you say about a Pope "he never married"?

It is unbalanced to say he was best known for writing the Prayer for Africa, when it was his book "Naught for Your Comfort" which was undoubtedly his main claim to fame.

2. Early Life - he went to St Mark's Swindon for three years from 1936-1939 after attending Wells Theological College. He then went to Mirfield where he served a two year noviciate (1939-1941) followed by another two years as a professed brother before he was asked to go to South Africa in 1943. It is therefore not true to say he was asked to do this while still a novice. (Ref: Trevor Huddleston by Piers McGrandle Continuum 2004)

3. CR's work in South Africa under Raymond Raynes had developed well beyond anything that can be said to be covered by the words "Mission station". The Provincial House in South Africa was in Rossentville but he was asked to serve as the parish priest for Sophiatown and Orlando initially. In six years in Sophiatown CR had built three churches, seven schools and three nursery schools catering for over 6,000 children, as well as the gigantic church of Christ the King which seated 1,000, and in nearby Orlando they had built four primary schools which with nursery schools catered for another 3,000 children. This was the job TH was asked to do. The article as it stands gives no idea of the scale of this. (Ref: The Community of the Resurrection by Alan Wilkinson)

4. I inserted Nelson Mandela's description of Apartheid as developed under the National Government voted in by the white electorate in 1948 as many people looking at this encyclopaedia nowadays will have no clear idea what is meant by the term and why it was so abhorrent to those who lived and worked in places like Sophiatown. (Ref: Long Walk to Freedom by Nelson Mandela)

5. Huddleston was the main force behind the Anti Apartheid Movement from its foundation in 1960 until it folded with the General Election in 1994, being its Vice President 1961-81 and its President from 1981-1994. Throughout his life, and not just after his retirement as stated in the article, he worked for the eradication of apartheid. He was instrumental in organising the sports boycott, the trade embargoes and later in focusing attention on Mandela and his release. (Ref: ACTSA - Action for South Africa) The article as printed makes none of this clear. Mandela said, "No white person has done more for South Africa than Trevor Huddleston" (Ref: ACTSA)

I thought the whole point of Wikipedia was that corrections could be made by people who were able to back them by quoting from original sources. I therefore cannot understand why my whole article was deleted.


I appreciate your concerns but when there are problematic policy-related edits it is expecting too much of other editors that they go through every detail of them to try and work out what is acceptable and what isn't. Apparently, according to your own edit summary, you included a significant amount of information directly from a copyright published source without making it clear which parts of your edits were from this source. Any copyright information must be immediately removed from articles and it was impossible to know which parts of your edits were apparently from this copyright source. Therefore it was appropriate to completely revert your edit. It is not an issue of whether the information you included is factually true or notable. Small details, such as the obvious reason for him never marrying, can be attended to later. Also, while articles can include short and cited quotations from already published sources, articles should avoid being significantly based on any single published source. They should, instead, be original articles but also able to reference a number of reliable published sources. I hope this helps. When I'm able I will post some relevant Wikipedia policy links. One relevant WP article is WP:BRD and I'm glad you are doing this. Regards, Anglicanus (talk) 04:30, 9 January 2014 (UTC)
PS ~ there were also numerous formatting problems in your edit (you can check this yourself by comparing your edit with the one before) which made it necessary to revert. Anglicanus (talk) 05:12, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Diarmaid MacCulloch[edit]

Thank you, I of course meant "honoured before ordination" or "ordained following the honour" and can only plead under the strain of a cold and lack of sleep I typed the opposite of what I wanted to say! I was quite sure that MacCulloch was right about "Sir" not obtaining in a case like his (in contrast with, say Derek Pattinson), because I just had this conversation with the Anglican Centre in Rome. They posted a release online announcing a knighthood for "the Most Revd Sir" David Moxon. I had recently seen the QI episode with Richard Coles where the subject came up, so I was confident in pointing out to them that that wasn't the style, and they crisply replied "We are advised that the Commonwealth usage differs." I couldn't help wondering what other usage would be relevant when discussing a knighthood within the Commonwealth, but perhaps it was an anglocentric reflex ("commonwealth" = "the commonwealth outside Britain"). I note that the archbishop holds a prior knighthood in the realm of NZ honour system and so perhaps they did mean a difference of usage between dominions. (We Canadians, of course, haven't had to entertain the question, since the feasibility of granting honours to our citizens in the name of the British sovereign very much depends on how inclined the government of the day is to advise her to heed the Nickle Resolution). Carolynparrishfan (talk) 21:49, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, the UK custom doesn't apply everywhere else in the Commonwealth any more. Here in Australia there have been a number of instances in the past of clergy being knighted and commonly being known with the title ~ such as Frank Woods, an Anglican Archbishop of Melbourne, and Frank Little who was the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Melbourne for much of the same time (sometimes called the "Two Sir Franks"). Then there was Norman Gilroy, a Roman Catholic Archbishop of Sydney who was commonly called "Cardinal Sir Norman Gilroy". I believe that the custom in the UK of clergy not using the title began with Queen Elizabeth I for reasons which I cannot recall. New Zealand restored the imperial honours system a few years ago. I expect that the current Australian government would like to do the same. Cheers, Anglicanus (talk) 01:15, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

bots do job better than people can[edit]

There is a really helpful bot which cleans us broken links far better than a person can - and especially with such an unwieldy page in the first place. Cheers. Collect (talk) 13:42, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Oops -- Frze now told about what bots do better than people <g>. Sorry about that. Collect (talk) 12:43, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Joseph Schereschewsky[edit]

I've admired your work on Joseph Schereschewsky, but I've wondered about the move to JS from SIJS. I've put some thoughts at Talk Page#Move back to SIJ Schereschewksy? . Cheers ch (talk) 07:29, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Book of Concord[edit]

Seems like the anon that keeps adding the non-neutral and spam to the Book of Concord article is back, again. I'm thinking of opening a thread at WP:ANI or WP:ANEW. Which do you think would be a better choice? Let me know at my talk page.oknazevad (talk) 19:37, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

WP:BISHOP discussion: format[edit]

Hi Anglicanus. I propose to have a discussion on revising the WP:BISHOP guidelines. I have created a page suggesting a format for that discussion: User talk:Danbarnesdavies/WP:BISHOP; please would you comment on the format? Dan BD 16:27, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Sandy Millar[edit]

Could you have a look please? It reads to me a little bit fawning/advertising – I wonder what you think? Dan BD 20:34, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

WP:BISHOP revision[edit]

Hi. I've started a discussion about revising the WP:BISHOP guidelines HERE. Please add your comments and invite everyone you think would be interested. Thanks! Dan BD 16:13, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

December 2014[edit]

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Anglicanus incorrect reversions[edit]

I am beginning to wonder what you know about the Anglican church its offices & customs - a classic was making lady chapel with a small "L". Shall we go straight to the dispute page? However from my point of view it would be better to work in collaboration rather than against each other - what do you think? M

You have no understanding of correct capitalising style. Your editing repeatedly ignores Wikipedia's MOS principles. I have been a priest for 35 years. Does that answer your question? For your information it can be either "Lady chapel" or "lady chapel" regardless of the association with the BVM. Anglicanus (talk) 10:14, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
I have advised you in the past to study the MOS and to edit accordingly. But you just keep on editing in whatever unproductive way that you feel like and ignore factual information about editing principles when you are informed of it. And yet you have the nerve to make yourself seem superior over "Lady chapel" versus "lady chapel" when you are constantly making blatant and obvious mistakes. Anglicanus (talk) 10:24, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
Thank you Anglicanus, however vociferously you made your point. I agree Lady chapel or lady chapel are both correct from time to time, but in this case it is Lady chapel. Likewise I accept your point about Christian Church vs. Christian church - égalité! Hopefully you will find the info I add to Wiki not only of help but of interest too? talk Mabelina (talk) 10:56, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
PS. you mention being ordained - are you RC?
Ok - bad joke!

Father irascible[edit]

Padre Anglicanus - I'm looking forward to your reply to my last, and btw I presume you're an AM?

I have reported you on the dispute page about edit warring in view of your reckless and unfounded assertion of "unproductive" editing.

As a point of order & since you pay such close attention to my contributions, let me comment on the veracity of your last three interventions (all of which have faults):

- Worshipful Company of Haberdashers: the Master Haberdasher is a so-styled & the offices of Master, Wardens, Assistants, Clerk and Beadle etc are all capitalized in accordance with their letters of appointment. A master haberdasher could be anybody, not specifically Master of the Haberdashers' Company, as too with the Worshipful Company's other positions you have a bee in your bonnet about.

- Sir Edward Leigh: born at or in is interchangeable, so your point is debatable at best but people I know still use in common parlance born at... In any event, strictly speaking "born at" is more accurate...

- Rahere: I accept your point that prior should not be capitalized in that context, but it should perhaps be linked, in order to make Wiki easily comprehensible to all readers.

So we both have helpful points to make & I thank you for yours, but let's co-operate rather than obstruct.

Now here's a poser for you: why did the Aussies continually insist that a former Anglican Archbishop of Melbourne was styled "Sir" until I intervened providing mucho references to support the fact that he personally never used, indeed positively forbade use of, that style?(Of course "Sir" as a prefix is otherwise acceptable form for Knights in the Anglican Church of Australia & by the way in the Church of England "Sir" as a prefix is also acceptable when used by baronets.)

Please refrain from being irascible with my edits from now on unless you have substantive reversions to make & why not improve Wiki's content by contributing new info too? M

Edit warring at Martin Dudley[edit]

You are risking WP:3RR with the recent edit war here. This needs to be sorted out at Talk:Martin Dudley or by other acceptable means. Dl2000 (talk) 19:54, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

I do not believe that it is possible to "sort out" anything with editors such as Mabelina as her silly comments above amply demonstrate. She falsely claims, for instance, that Frank Woods "never" used the title of "Sir" and that she had provided references to support this. This is complete nonsense. The references were already in the article and not only do they not say what she claims but they actually contradict her claims. I also knew Frank Woods personally as he was my archbishop when I became a theological student in Melbourne. He certainly did use the title and was commonly known as "Sir Frank" in the diocese, the media and the general population. How I am expected to "sort out" anything with someone who makes such false comments I really don't know. I have tried - time after time - to point out the frequent problems with her editing but to no avail. She just keeps on editing articles in her own way with many clear MOS and other problems. And yet she has the gall to try and report me. It is beyond ridiculous. Anglicanus (talk) 16:20, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Joe Williams (jazz singer)[edit]

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Disambiguation link notification for January 10[edit]

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A Barnstar For You![edit]

BoNM - Australia.png The Australian Barnstar of National Merit
For creating and contributing to countless Australian related articles as noted by Adamm (talkcontribs) 22:04, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
this WikiAward was given to Anglicanus by Adamm (talkcontribs) 22:04, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Adamm (talkcontribs) 22:04, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Reference Errors on 28 January[edit]

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