User talk:Arkhandar

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A barnstar for you, about Nintendo![edit]

Barnstar of Diligence Hires.png The Barnstar of Diligence
For tireless (yikes) copyediting, etc. Your 'thanks' for my work on List of Wii U software led me to check your intense activity on Nintendo and inspired me to do likewise! — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 08:04, 30 May 2014 (UTC)


Nintendo Software Planning & Development[edit]

Resolved

Where are the sources that state Nintendo Software Planning & Development actively helped on development for some of the recent games you've added to the list? Just because a producer from SPD co-produced the game doesn't mean the entire group did, unless I'm missing something. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 13:39, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

Hi! I was planning on adding sources to each game in the lists at a later date, by which time I would ask for help in the Wikiproject video games talk page on how to reference video game credits. I have no idea how to do that yet and I am unaware of the existence of any template, hence the lack of sources in the article. I was also planning to make a suggestion on the talk page to start a credits database on Wikipedia video game articles, but that's another discussion. As for Nintendo SPD, each production group is made of about 12 employees each, so please understand that with multiple projects at once it is likely that we only see 3 to 6 people working on a game. They are usually responsible for project management, promotional art work, and overall co-production of a game so the team size for each game is very flexible. As such, they have the same right to be on the list as the other title, I just need someone to help source the staff roll as I have no experience with it. Thank you.--Arkhandar (TalkContribs) 22:47, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
The SPD Production groups always involved multiple producers, planners, coordinators, musicians, and technical artists for every game Nintendo publishes outside of EAD. It's not just one guy, it's an entire group. NOAWiki (talk) 03:41, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Yo how about Template:Cite_video_game? This is one of those situations where I searched google, like "how to cite video game credits in wikipedia". ;) — Smuckoala (Email) (Talk) 22:55, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
@Smuckola:Silly me, I was completely unaware of the template's existence until some days ago. Some fellow editor had already pointed out the template in the Wikiproject Video games talk page, but I didn't realize what he was talking about, until he wikilinked it. Thanks for the heads up though, sometimes I forget the power of mother Google. [PS: I updated my user page based on yours. I can say I was inspired by your work too :)] --Arkhandar (TalkContribs) 00:33, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
@Arkhandar: I know! I had to train myself to search google for wikipedia stuff, long ago. And that's how I still find things that I'm perfectly well aware of, too. I can't remember where they are or what they're called, but Chrome has cached my search keywords for the idea of it, and it reminds me. I've tried keeping toolkit notes on my User page, but somehow, Google is my notebook. There is NO way anyone could possibly keep track of the million miles of metadata! I went to your page today to see what you're up to and I was most impressed! I honestly thought I'd accidentally clicked mine! I had the most awful mess of User page for years until I was getting way into table syntax for 64DD (and I've also definitely learned from your layout ideas), when somehow an actual design struck me. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that I credit User:Ritchie333 for that medal/status idea, and with the notion that I should relabel myself as WP:WikiDragon. — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 01:02, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
@Smuckola: Your bold edits sure can be intimidating, especially for a... WikiMosquito(??) like me. I tend to make really small edits all the time. I'm too afraid of messing up :)--Arkhandar (TalkContribs) 00:15, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
@Arkhandar: My dear sir! I would have replied sooner, but I could not.. so flummoxed was I by your modestly understated self-assessment, that I knew not how to respond! You are a titan of tables, a king of captions, a prince of prose. Which kinds of bold edits are you talking about? Are you talking about Unity (game engine) and such? You are more like a WikiPikmin, sending a horde of winged warriors to crush a target. I just boldly made that up. — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 00:48, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

Nintendo barnstar[edit]

Nintendo Branstar - Gold.png The Nintendo Barnstar
For hard core creative table layout, and insanely tedious mass conversions theretofore, with a touch of Japanese. Seething masses of drowning data THANK YOU! For exploring vast castles and corporate ivory towers across the seas, erasing large swaths of fog-of-war black from our map, and discovering lost levels! For good sportsmanship and granting secret power ups to your fellow players, upon which I personally thrive. I hear Wikipedia's end boss is REALLY HARD so LET'S-A-GO! 1up 1up 1up 1up 1up — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 01:02, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

"List of games developed" on Nintendo Entertainment Analysis & Development[edit]

For what reason is this here? It's just duplicate info of stuff listed above it, and half of the list wasn't made by EAD anyway. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 22:18, 7 July 2014 (UTC)

@Dissident93:The list's purpose is to serve as a comprehensive list of all software titles developed by Nintendo EAD. As you may know, in the past the EAD division didn't have the same structure it currently has, so this list is imperative for the inclusion of older titles developed before the 2003 restructure. As for the inclusion of newer titles, I think it's only natural to include them as well in order to compile all titles developed by EAD in one list and as a consequence facilitate the research purpose of the for our readers. I understand that the list may not be very accurate in its current state but please understand, Wikipedia is a community project where we help each other with getting the most accurate info. Thank you for your work on the article and I hope to continue to work with you in the future.--Arkhandar (TalkContribs) 00:11, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
I'm not against a full, detailed list of any kind, but I personally think this would be better to have on the main Nintendo page, where it would be viewed more. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 14:50, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Here is my problem with the games developed on EAD wikipedia page. It's become way too bloated with unnecessary details. The main listing should serve just what games they developed. One of the biggest errors is this insistence on adding co-developer tags (several are erroneously listed at that) which isn't necessary on this page, maybe on the specific game page. The Monolith Soft "co-developer" tags are extremely inaccurate and they are plastered all over the EAD page. Monolith Soft (kyoto) is a graphic asset team that helps EAD Kyoto finish games on a production level. This means they join the development team near the end of development, and help model some NPC/objects. That's the same thing hundreds of small companies do for every game, and we don't go listing them as co-developers. Monolith Soft (Kyoto) and 1-Up Studio list themselves are support studios, as they are listed in the credits, but to say they are co-developers in disingenuous. I mean, SRD and Mario Club are equally "co-developers" of all those Monolith Soft support games listed for EAD. See my point? Games like Steel Diver, Star Fox 64 3D, NES Remix are true examples of co-developed EAD games since they were 50/50. But several of the others, are not. NOAWiki (talk) 03:26, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

I agree 100%. So much bloated info (and I'm not sure it's even accurate.) Let's say I submitted a single font or sprite or something for an Nintendo game, would that mean I get to be a co-developer as well?~ Dissident93 (talk) 20:29, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
@Arkhandar, NOAWiki, Dissident93: Here's my two cents, for what it's worth. As I am told about the movie and TV industry, if you speak a scripted word, you're a "co-star". Even if you're on screen for one second. That sounds really big. You're not a main star, so you don't get on the movie poster but you get in the credits. Similarly, you're talking about co-developers, but some are main co-developers and some are minor co-developers or a support. So we don't have to list them all on each thingie, but we could list them all in its 'list class' article, or on the subject's article. Right? — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 00:55, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
I agree on some points, mainly that the "co-developed" wording may give the wrong impression to the company in question's actual role in the development of a given title. Given that, I have made the necessary changes so that "co-developed" means 50/50 developed like @NOAWiki: mentioned, co-programmed means that the was an exclusive programming collaboration, and development assistance means medium to minor roles like Monolith Soft's. The main difference between Mario Club, Digital Hearts, Bauhaus Entertainment, etc. is that unlike Monolith Soft, they are rarely mentioned by reliable sources, so they're notability is almost null. However, I think that companies should be mentioned somewhere in the article, just not with tags like Monolith Soft and Vitei for example. Please understand that in major article redesigns not everything works, especially with only one person handling everything, so these types of issues are only nature. Thank you for your input, and good editing.--Arkhandar (TalkContribs) 21:26, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
@Arkhandar: Alright cool. BTW, I apologize if I seemed a bit hostile with my reverts on some of your edits, as I really wasn't. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 01:43, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
@Arkhandar, Smuckola, Dissident93: Like I mentioned before, every Japanese game has like 4-5 small support companies involved in the production of the game. It doesn't make them co-developers, and it also doesn't mean you have to clutter the EAD page with the mere mention of each support company. You can list the support developers on the individual game page more so that spend soo much effort on the EAD page mentioning non-EAD involvement (some of which is little or questionable). Look at Platinum Games, in their game credits, there are like 5-6 companies involved in making all their games, yet you don't see a mention of any of them on the Platinum Games wikipedia page because its not really the main topic. If anything, maybe we can make a section underneath called support developers where we mentioned all the support companies who have helped EAD make games. But there is no need to make it a point to tag each game co-developed and add monolith soft and "EAD technology" (Which isn't even a separate developer, it's a part of EAD". It's really redundant and unnecessary, and this is coming from a BIG NINTENDO FAN. NOAWiki (talk) 01:32, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
By the way, Paper Mario on N64 was an EAD / Intelligent Systems production. If you look at the credits, you see Miyamoto/Miki (EAD producers), Fukui ( EAD coordinator), Tezuka (EAD supervisor) Mizuki, Takeshita, and Tanaka (graphic designers on team from EAD). Even though the GameCube sequel was also produced by EAD, it no longer had any direct development involvement. The third paper Mario was officially an SPD production through IS. I also don't think it is necessary to list EAD Technology Development as a "co-developer" since they are basically EAD's technology team. All the EAD programmers belong to that department (even the technical support group you unfettered from the department). Technically EAD Technology and SRD are the only programmers for EAD Kyoto. NOAWiki (talk) 17:50, 13 July 2014 (UTC)


The Kirby games are also very interesting. Miyamoto was a producer and part of the creation team of the original Game Boy Kirby with HAL. Kirby's Dreamland 2 had Miyamoto as producer, and 2 EAD Map Designers actually develop the levels (Kensuke Tanabe, Hideki Fujii). The rest of the series has a lot of EAD production involvement, with titles like Kirby's Tilt N' Tumble 2 (which never released) being an official EAD game. Then it became Roll-O-Rama, which still never released. As far as the Pokemon Stadium games, HAL's involvement is not in the credits at all. The closest HAL/GameFreak involvement might be the Pokemon Modeling Center, that Nintendo created at the time to model 3D Pokemons for use in Snap? and Stadium 1-3. But those were contract modelers for Nintendo. NOAWiki (talk) 17:58, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
HAL doesn't list Pokemon Stadium games on their works page http://www.hallab.co.jp/company_data_en.html, and I don't see any specific HAL developers in the game credits per say. NOAWiki (talk) 21:42, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Armillo[edit]

@Arkhandar:What sections are relevant is likely subjective. What is verifiable however is not. Everything in the previous version of the page had a link which I believe would make it verifiable. All the articles are linked and all the info is legitimate. Can you explain why this info is not relevant or "advertising"? Yanninski (talk) 18:19, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

@Yanninski:I understand that you're new to Wikipedia and that is comprehensible. I also understand that you're acting in good-faith and I admire that. However, I must understand that this is not how Wikipedia works. Yes, you are right that what is relevant is rather subjective (to some degree), but most of what you posted earlier on the Armillo page neither follows our manual of style nor is verifiable by reliable sources. If you do desire to contribute to the Armillo page I advise you to research more on Wikipedia's guidelines before making further changes. Like I said, you can visit the Wikiproject: Video games portal for more information on editing and video game-specific guidelines. Thank you and happy editing.--Arkhandar (TalkContribs) 18:21, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
@Arkhandar:I understand but I'm having a hard time grasping how 80+ links and sources are all deemed un-verifiable by one person? I did read the pages you suggested (thanks very much for that!) I did not link the articles in the subscript format (as previously started) but would it not make sense to review the links and determine how/if they are unreliable? The formatting pages state to follow suit on how the page was set up previously (superscript reference format). My goal was to create a user verifiable wiki page for the game, where contributors add links to any/all articles for Armillo.
The manual of style as defined by Wiki does have wiggle room, so I'm not sure if the style I chose to update doesn't jive with other similar pages, but again, from my readings, I am under the impression that there is some wiggle room. Considering the articles were cross reference I wonder if leaving them up there and slowly creating an alternate footnote/reference to each one would be more beneficial to the community instead of simply just deleting everything and starting from scratch? Yanninski (talk) 18:50, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
@Yanninski:I understand your point of view, put you have to understand that that approach is not endorsed by the manual of style. Yes, there's some room for rule bending, but we usually leave that for very special cases only. Otherwise, Wikipedia would be a glorified anarchy. Regarding the articles you posted, most of them are still available in the talk page as reference ideas if any contributor desires to use them to expanded the article. Other than that there's not much to do. The article really needs to be, little by little, written from scratch. I advise you to take a look at the Fez article. It pretty much sums up how a good video game article should look like.--Arkhandar (TalkContribs) 19:00, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

@Arkhandar - I understand. Thanks for taking the time to let us know. :) Yanninski (talk) 20:54, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

The .... Others![edit]

Hey there, brother. Do you happen to know what was the role of intelligent systems on this section? We don't just want a bare list WP:NOTDIR. I wrote that generic lead sentence in that section just to have something as better than nothing. All I found is their Japanese page shown there, and I couldn't find any information on their development of any of those individual games via Google. — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 09:32, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

@Smuckola:I'm sorry, but I can't seem to recall why I left them apart from the main list, but there must have been some good reason. I remember doing some research quite some time ago about the "others", since the development of those games is so obscure, but I don't think I got any luck on it. Maybe I wasn't really sure if Intelligent Systems was a major developer of the games or not, so I left them there. I really should have taken notes, but something made me abandon the article before I could finish the list. I guess we can add them to the main list again, and if anything come up I'll let you know.--Arkhandar (TalkContribs) 00:24, 20 July 2014 (UTC)
@Arkhandar: Maybe you'd like to put that in the Talk page and possibly make a note in a comment, referring to the Talk subject. It's just a thought. Maybe it'll scare up your recollection. A lot of those are so old that I wonder how you ever found any of this! By the way, do you read Japanese at all? It seems like you know your way around some Japanese somehow ;) — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 00:58, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

July 2014[edit]

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WIIU[edit]

See the discussion at Talk:WIIU. Cheers, Wbm1058 (talk) 00:27, 26 July 2014 (UTC)


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