User talk:Art LaPella/Archive 6

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..for keeping an eye on me

--Ida Shaw (talk) 13:11, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. My best guess is you mean Passiflora edulis, although I didn't change your edits. Art LaPella (talk) 16:38, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
Just noticed this ... did I issue this smiley thing? Tony (talk) 05:06, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Just noticed your name there myself. My guess is you issued it to her or someone else, and she copied it. Art LaPella (talk) 05:08, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
I don't think I've ever issued an icon ... not my style. Tony (talk) 06:34, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Unexplained revert[edit]

This unexplained revert was undone by Ucucha. I presume it was some kind of mistake, because nobody would object to all of that long list of uncontroversial Manual of Style changes and such. Art LaPella (talk) 22:21, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, that was accidental on my part, and I was unaware that it occurred until you brought it to my attention. (I can only assume that I somehow clicked on the "rollback" link from my watchlist in the process of following a different link.) I sincerely apologize. —David Levy 22:40, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
To prevent this from happening again, I edited User:David Levy/monobook.css to add code that suppresses the "rollback" link from my watchlist (where I don't recall ever intentionally using it and envision no situation in which I would). —David Levy 22:47, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Unit area template[edit]

Thanks for your message & the edits to Mendip Hills (which I didn't know was going to be main page). The edit was made using the User:AndyZ/peerreviewer script which obviously hasn't been updated to take into account the correct superscript formatting. I will leave another niote on the talk page for the script - however it looks as if this may not be being maintained anymore.— Rod talk 09:03, 28 February 2010 (UTC)


Even I see several (minor) style errors there :-) Please feel free to amend them despite inuse tags (they only mean to hold promotion to queues for now). I will reshuffle all sets in prep1, 2 and extra for composition, but most hooks will be unchanged. I'll keep track of your corrections, which are always more than welcome. Regards. Materialscientist (talk) 03:23, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

This might save some of your time: Double spaces in DYK prep files are inevitable, as they're introduced by personal computers of various users. The new bot automatically replaces multiple spaces by single one before moving to the main page (and the wikimedia software treat multiple spaces as single - we've experimented with that). The new bot also handles well dollar, apostrophe ($, ') and other signs which the previous bot couldn't, thus no need for {{$}}, {{'}} in most cases, but '''[[John Doe]]''''s should be '''[[John Doe]]'''{{'}}s. A longer discussion can be found at User talk:Shubinator. Materialscientist (talk) 04:18, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. I think you meant ` not ', that is, '''[[John Doe]]'''{{`}}s not '''[[John Doe]]'''{{'}}s. If not, then H13 should be changed from ` to '. The reason for {{`}} and {{'}} is to prevent bolding the apostrophe, not because of a bot problem; even on this (unbotted) page you can see the difference between John Doe's and John Doe's. Art LaPella (talk) 04:54, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
Hm .. to me, those different apostrophe signs are ambiguous, because they might look either same or different on different screens and because they sometimes produce different and sometimes the same output. I believe their usage may, in some cases, be favored by the specific keyboard. Thus for myself, I would change them all to ' or {{'}}, depending on the situation. Materialscientist (talk) 05:57, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
The difference between {{`}} and {{'}}, along with a rationale for preferring ` to other alternatives, is explained at Template:`. As always, if the consensus is against any rule including H13 (which I didn't even write), then I hope somebody changes it. Art LaPella (talk) 06:12, 12 March 2010 (UTC)


I have no objection to your edit, but "and/or" is no longer forbidden by the MoS. The wording was significantly softened last year. Tony (talk) 05:30, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

"In general ... use x, y, or both". You could say "forbidden" is an exaggeration, but so is "significantly softened". Anyway, the rest of us have no way of guessing when "in general" rules aren't intended to apply. Suppose it was your duty to defuse land mines, and your instructions said "In general, don't touch the red button." Art LaPella (talk) 13:39, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Extra dot[edit]

I have not yet learned how to construct the dots myself. I have to import them by copying and pasting. When I have many items to enter into a template, I sometimes import more dots that I can use at one time. I been leaving them there for future use. You can remove them when you find them, if they look messy. I will try to bring over only the dots that I need. Tanks.Fsmatovu (talk) 18:59, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Death Toll[edit]

I did a quick Google check and the death toll for the Dam failure has risen to 40. I updated the casualties ref in the article.Marcus Aurelius Antoninus (talk) 20:22, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

That has been fixed by Dumelow. Art LaPella (talk) 23:42, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:How to copy-edit[edit]

Thanks for bringing to my attention an interesting and useful page which I did not know existed! Cheers, -- Black Falcon (talk) 18:49, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Manual of Style discussion[edit]

I've moved the MOS structure discussion to Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Structure.
— V = IR (Talk • Contribs) 21:22, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

OK. Art LaPella (talk) 21:25, 29 March 2010 (UTC)


For this edit, I enforce that rule often, so perhaps you could explain to me the difference between "On January 15, 1947, she began tertiary study." and "Targets of the July 12, 2007, Baghdad airstrike; still frame from the full length video". Art LaPella (talk) 06:33, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

In the former instance, the second comma follows an introductory phrase.
In the latter instance, it follows an essential phrase (thereby setting it off from the entity whose nature it clarifies). The AP Stylebook (which presumably played a role in determining our usage) instructs against this. It includes the example "They ate dinner with their daughter Julie." It's explained that "because they have more than one daughter, the inclusion of Julie's name is critical if the reader is to know which daughter is meant." Likewise, the inclusion of the date is critical if the reader is to know which airstrike is meant.
In explaining when to treat the year as a parenthetical, the AP Stylebook provides an example clearer than ours: "Feb. 14, 1987, was the target date." Here's an alternative rendering (for illustration):
February 14 (1987) was the target date.
February 14 (1987) stands alone as the entity described as "the target date."
Conversely, your example results in the following:
Targets of the July 12 (2007) Baghdad airstrike
Essential information is set off from the entity whose nature it elucidates. —David Levy 12:52, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

April 15 WP:SA[edit]

You seem to also be an interested party in the April 15 WP:SA. I made a comment at User_talk:Zzyzx11#Wikipedia:Selected_anniversaries.2FApril_15 that needs an administrator's attention.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:59, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

  • User:Zzyzx11 is an administrator.
  • As his user page states, he is "the primary contributor (some say de facto director) to the OTD/SA pages."
  • My contribution to On This Day, and other Main Page areas, is the same kind of copy editing you've seen me do at MOS. I seem to be able to defuse battles sometimes, but other than that I have a low tolerance for politics.
  • "I don't think you should stand in the way of [your award]" rubs me the wrong way (if that's an obscure Americanism, here's a definition). Shouldn't Zzyzx11 and Wikipedia run the same copy regardless of who gets an award for it, and what would an award mean if you got on the Main Page by telling people you need the award? Art LaPella (talk) 05:34, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
    • He is not online and it is going to go up at the end of the day. I guess, I will wait and deal with him.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:40, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Refactored endash question[edit]

Hi Art LaPella. I moved your question about endashes to a new section as it seems better to discuss it as a specific issue rather than as part of the audits. Hope you don't mind (and that I chose the title correctly)? I answered as best I could but must confess I don't really know what the rule should be and haven't found any definitive answer, yet. I hope others wade in to give their thoughts! --Jubileeclipman 20:12, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

OK. Art LaPella (talk) 22:16, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Spell check on Clipperton Island[edit]

Thanks so much for checking and correcting the spelling on the Clipperton Island article. I've been making a lot of edits to that article recently, most of them very late in the evenings, and I admit to not having checked the spelling as carefully as I should have! Thanks a lot for going in after me and fixing my mistakes (believe me, I need the help!)! - Ecjmartin (talk) 10:53, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome. I'll use some more software on it. Art LaPella (talk) 13:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
In regard to the German name translation, I have no idea, as I didn't translate it. I'm rather curious about that one, myself....-Ecjmartin (talk) 00:53, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

The dash[edit]

Concerning this, I must say I am a bit confused: isn't the article's title "AustriaHungary" (where, incidentally, it was moved after an "Austria-Hungary" period)? It's really no big deal, but how can something be both correct and incorrect, and which standard are we at long last supposed to follow? Dahn (talk) 20:00, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

I didn't know it had been changed before, or I would have explained it better. But WP:ENDASH says: "An en dash is not used for ... an element that lacks lexical independence (the prefix Sino- in Sino-Japanese trade)." So to me this should definitely be a hyphen. "Austria–Hungary" should be a dash, but "Austro-Hungarian" should be a hyphen. Art LaPella (talk) 20:07, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Here's a tutorial version, but the rule is WP:DASH (and WP:HYPHEN above it). Art LaPella (talk) 20:10, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
I see. I'll try to comply with this in the future. Thanks. Dahn (talk) 20:11, 28 April 2010 (UTC)


My dad said his mother told him "the Norwegians are the finest people in the world." Sca (talk) 17:54, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Uff da. Art LaPella (talk) 20:10, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Nuclear program of Iran[edit]

Hi, this article is protected for edit, but I think your last edit was ok.---Nutriveg (talk) 22:46, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

The notice links to a protection policy that says: "...should not be edited except to make changes which are uncontroversial ..." My changes relate to the Manual of Style, such as changing hyphens to dashes, not to make any change that would favor either side of the dispute. Thus I have complied with the intent of the protection. Art LaPella (talk) 22:54, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Today's featured article/May 28, 2010[edit]

Hi. This is the FAC nominator of Iravan. You edited the Tomorrow's FA of Iravan, so contacted you too (Have left a note on Raul654's talk too). I propose a different draft for the TFA, which IMO gives due weight to topics in accordance to Iravan's importance in them. Iravan (known as Aravan in Southern India) is popular because of his marriage to the transgender Alis (Koovagam ceremony has wide coverage in LGBT literature and sources like BBC and Indian media). Actually, the Aravan name is more popular in LGBT related affairs. Can you please check? Thanks.

Iravan (Aravan) is a minor character from the Hindu epic of Mahabharata. The son of Pandava prince Arjuna (one of the main heroes of the Mahabharata) and the Naga princess Ulupi, Iravan is the central god of the cult of Kuttantavar and plays a major role in the cult of Draupadi. Both these cults are of South Indian origin, from a region of the country where he is worshipped as a village deity. The Mahabharata portrays Iravan as dying a heroic death in the 18-day Kurukshetra War, the epic's main subject. However, the South Indian cults have a supplementary tradition of honouring Iravan's self-sacrifice to the goddess Kali to ensure her favour and the victory of the Pandavas in the war. The South Indian cult focus on three boons granted to Iravan by the god Krishna in honour of this self-sacrifice. Iravan is also a patron god of well-known Indian transgender communities called Ali. In Koovagam, Tamil Nadu, an 18-day festival holds a ceremonial marriage of Iravan to Alis and male villagers (who have taken vows to Aravan) and followed then by their "widowhood" after ritual re-enactment of Iravan's sacrifice. Iravan is also known in Indonesia. Independent Javanese traditions present a dramatic marriage of Irawan to Titisari, daughter of Krishna, and a death resulting from a case of mistaken identity.(more...)

--Redtigerxyz Talk 04:44, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Raul has changed to a version similar to this, though please check it as it may need a copyedit. --Redtigerxyz Talk 06:55, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
My main contribution to Wikipedia is simple copyediting. From that standpoint, the text looks OK (the word "focus" seems as if it should be "focuses" but that's an oft-repeated WP:ENGVAR issue). Art LaPella (talk) 13:59, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Happy Art LaPella's Day![edit]

Featured article star.svg

User:Art LaPella has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian,
and therefore, I've officially declared today as Art LaPella's day!
For being such a beautiful person and great Wikipedian,
enjoy being the Star of the day, dear Art LaPella!

00:21, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

A record of your Day will always be kept here.

For a userbox you can add to your userbox page, see User:Rlevse/Today/Happy Me Day! and my own userpage for a sample of how to use it. RlevseTalk 00:21, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! Art LaPella (talk) 01:10, 4 June 2010 (UTC)


Hi, I am currently involved in a proposal for a guideline on primary, secondary and tertiary sources. I have just discovered that you were once involved in a similar proposal a while ago - either in contributing to it directly or in discussing it on its talk page. You may wish to get involved in the current proposal and I would encourage you to do so - even if you just want to point out where we have gone wrong! Yaris678 (talk) 23:42, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I gave that proposal a basic copyedit, so I did the same for this proposal, except nowadays I use WP:AWB. Art LaPella (talk) 03:49, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. Yaris678 (talk) 21:12, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Edit summaries[edit]

I am intrigued by the edit summary for this edit. It reads "Typo fixing, mostly the automatable parts of the Manual of Style and sometimes User:Art LaPella/Citation template double period bug using AWB". There were no double periods in the article, and no typographical errors. I see you've used the same edit summary for other edits, such as this one, where all you did was to add {{nowrap}} around dates. These edit summaries seem a little misleading to me. If you're going to unlink geographical areas for some reason, or restrict the text which can be broken over lines, it would be better to say so, and explain why. On a more specific note, can you explain why removing all links to geographical areas in an article is desirable? Sure, people probably know where these places are, but why make them type it in to find out more, when we can link to it, cheaply and harmlessly? --Stemonitis (talk) 20:20, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually, in the first example, I consider "pages= 254" to be a typo; it printed as "pp. 254", and you wouldn't say "I am referring to pages 254." But yes, I leave the same edit summary in AWB for all my edits. I wouldn't want to have to describe each of a long list of changes in detail; they often wouldn't all fit in one edit summary, and one of the advantages of AWB is the speed of doing several such edits at once. So maybe I should use a vaguer edit summary. Or maybe I should leave a link to one of my user pages, which could describe the overall purpose of my AWB editing in more detail. As for removing geographic links, I don't remove ALL geographic links; search User:Art LaPella/AWB list for "Pacific" to get the list I use. That is my interpretation of WP:OVERLINK:"Unless they are particularly relevant to the topic of the article, avoid linking terms whose meaning can be understood by most readers of the English Wikipedia, including plain English words, the names of major geographic features and locations, religions, languages, common professions, common units of measurement,[3] and dates (but see Chronological items below)." (emphasis added). Similarly, Nowrap comes from the WP:NBSP guideline. My reliance on Manual of Style rules like OVERLINK is explained further at User:Art LaPella/Because the guideline says so. Art LaPella (talk) 22:40, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
I think not explaining your edits would be better than a non-description. I find edits with no description obnoxious; I find edits with a false or vague description (on the rare occasion that I discover them) noxious, insidious. Someone needs to check the code for AWB, if it lets people set and casually reuse a default edit description. If "the Manual of Style" were "automatable", there would be a bot for that. We are not bots. Hopefully each unlink is separately considered. Multiple edits are easy to describe. E.g., "Typos; sp.; punctu.; reduce Overlink; dates to Nowrap.".Whiner01 (talk) 07:07, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
I refined my standard edit description in response to Stemonitis, and for you I'll change "automatable" to the more precise "semi-automatable". Yes, I sometimes overrule the links my AWB wants to remove, normally in the lead or infobox. No way do I understand how "Typos;" etc. explains me better than a link to a whole page of explanation for anyone who cares. Art LaPella (talk) 16:55, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

"Intrinsically chronological articles"[edit]

I agree that someone who's looking at November 1910 might well want to look at 1910 as well, and I should have left it linked. However, I disagree totally about the value of the link to November, which is just an explanation of the history of the month and its name - an entirely different sort of article. And I'm not at all convinced that that a reader interested in the events of November 1910 would have any interest whatever in the events of, say, November 23, in some entirely different year, which is all that those month-day links will provide. Colonies Chris (talk) 07:54, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Comma usage when a state name follows a city name[edit]

Art LaPella, I started a talk discussion on Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style#Comma_usage_when_a_state_name_follows_a_city_name that you appear to have had a prior opinion in case you wanted to comment further. § Music Sorter § (talk) 05:33, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done Art LaPella (talk) 15:46, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Your AWB edits[edit]

this seems a bit bizarre. Why nowrap date fields in cite templates? LeadSongDog come howl! 22:23, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

User:Art LaPella/AWB explanation#Nowrap and nbsp, paragraph 2. Art LaPella (talk) 22:27, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I read that, but it still makes no sense to me. If those strings should be nowrapped, let the template code implement it for you, rather than editing every page. That's what templates are for. LeadSongDog come howl! 22:32, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Do you think they could nowrap "date=6 November 2010" without nowrapping the 2010? If so, I'll ask them. I know the template people can't/won't fix User:Art LaPella/Citation template double period bug. Art LaPella (talk) 22:38, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
On second thought, it would need to avoid nowrapping "date=November 6, 2010", and I've often been told templates aren't as smart as BASIC programs. Art LaPella (talk) 22:44, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Why avoid it? Is "November 6,
2010" somehow a more desired rendering than "6 November
2010"? LeadSongDog come howl! 04:15, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
My edits would allow both of those line breaks. "November 6, 2010" differs from "6 November 2010" only because I wouldn't allow a line break within "6 November". As my writeup explains, to me a "more desired rendering" is one that follows the guidelines including WP:NBSP, which says "Use a non-breaking space ... in other places ... such as ... 12 November". Art LaPella (talk) 04:38, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
In any case, an examination of WP:CIT and WP:Citing sources does not seem to advocate the application of non-breaking spaces to citations. None of the examples given there use them. Perhaps a wider discussion forum would be in order if you really think WP:NBSP mandates these edits. To me, however, they seem to create more confusion than they prevent, which clearly isn't what WP:NBSP intends. Edits inside the parameter values of citation templates carry significant hazards of breaking the WP:V linkage to the cited source. This includes replacements in titles that would otherwise comply with WP:HYPHEN. By changing these strings, some search engines will cease to find matches without manual intervention. User:Citation bot is fairly robust, but it can be broken. LeadSongDog come howl! 16:02, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
WP:CIT seems unaware of other guidelines besides WP:NBSP (search for "10-11" for example, which should be "10–11"). It wouldn't hurt to ask around, but I'm unaware of any citations malfunctioning due to Nowrap or nbsp, despite hundreds of such edits, each of which was monitored a while after the edit to see what people change back and why. I don't understand "replacements in titles that would otherwise comply with WP:HYPHEN". After a discussion at WT:MOS, I make such replacements to make them comply with WP:HYPHEN, not to prevent such compliance. Changing such hyphens to dashes doesn't interfere with search engines (unless for some reason you use Wikipedia's search to find a reference title) according to this discussion linked from my writeup. I've never heard of Citation bot, but I don't expect the rest of the database to stand still to make my software work, and presumably bot programmers don't either. But a "wider discussion forum" is fine with me. Where would you suggest? Art LaPella (talk) 16:48, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
P.S. Here is a previous discussion on a closely related topic, inserting nbsp into a wikilink. Art LaPella (talk) 17:17, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
I see what you're saying about the "10-11" usage, though I see that as a purely orthographic issue (not bibliographic) when it comes up in a date range or page range as shown. When applied to titles, however, it is a rather more serious issue. I do a lot of citegnoming, an endeavour that User:Citation bot is designed to help with. We rely fairly heavily on PubMed, WorldCat and Google Scholar for the validation of bibliographic metadata such as title spellings. If a title or author name is incorrectly spelled to begin with, it makes it more difficult to find the correct PMID, OCLC number, ISBN, or DOI for the source. Even changes from titlecase to sentencecase or the insertion of extra whitespace can mess these searches up. These fields should be direct quotes of the authoritative data, not some variation we come up with at WP. I would also be reluctant to see it used as a cause for changing URIs, which should remain conformant to rfc3986 in order to ensure that they remain operable. LeadSongDog come howl! 17:59, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
I got lost in rfc3986, but I think you're no longer talking about Nowrap; you're talking about my change of |title=Osteochondritis dissecans 1887-1987. A centennial look at König's memorable phrase| to change the hyphen to a dash. "changes from titlecase to sentencecase" doesn't "mess these searches up" on Google and similar search engines like Google Scholar. Neither do changing hyphens to dashes. I also found the title above on PubMed using a dash instead of a hyphen. The dash did interfere with a WorldCat search, but I think your main point is that changing that hyphen to a dash interferes with a search by Citation bot. And therefore you disagree with the conclusion of the discussion here. So if I follow you, I need to get you and the Manual of Style regulars together, since they're the ones who told me to go ahead and change the hyphens. Art LaPella (talk) 18:47, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
You're right, I drifted OT a bit. Google's search engine is about as robust as they come, but others are not so tolerant. PubMed's is improving, but WorldCat's is still rather picky and many libraries' local (non-union) catalogues are even more so. Likewise, many newspaper and website archives have very finicky search engines. Please keep in mind too that MOS guidelines pertain to the text as rendered to the reader, not to the wikitext from which it is rendered. This is another argument for using the templates to make this sort of substitution. Finally, MOS is a guideline. WP:V is a policy. The former should conform to the latter. LeadSongDog come howl! 22:20, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
I haven't found a search engine like Google and Yahoo that notices punctuation, but if there are any I will have many uses for them. MOS is about text as rendered to the reader, in this case whether "12 November" should be on one line or 1887-1987 should be rendered to the reader as 1887–1987. Templates making a substitution would be fine with me, but isn't that making the perfect the enemy of the good? And WP:V is a policy; it requires the information to be sourced, not what kind of software is involved. But anyway, I'm probably the wrong guy to argue with. I'm leaving links to this discussion at WT:MOS and WT:Citation templates, and feel free to add other such links elsewhere. Art LaPella (talk) 23:03, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Sounds good. Thank you.LeadSongDog come howl! 04:07, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────For what it's worth, I also brought up the WP:DASH question to Ucucha for the same reason; I thought that citations were to have exact titles, but I didn't care enough to follow up nor to alter my practice of not changing dashes or hyphens in titles. —Ost (talk) 16:19, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
I just checked the [Library of Congress Authorities] engine, which to all practical purposes is the gold standard for the spelling of authors' names. It uses what appears to be either an unspaced endash " – " or a minus "−" hyphen in names, e.g. "Hewlett-Packard" and in lifespans, e.g. "1809-1849" but I'm having trouble telling for sure. The help page for searching authorities advises against using any punctuation in the query but it seems to treat "-" as equivalent to a space in a name search. LeadSongDog come howl! 18:01, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
If you want to argue with MOS regulars, and the biggies seem to be on vacation, then don't use "Hewlett-Packard" as an example. I think they would hyphenate that too. A better argument for your side would be looking up something like "U.S.–Mexican War", which finds hyphens not dashes. Of course they would presumably tell you the gold standard is the Chicago Manual of Style. Art LaPella (talk) 18:56, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
The Authorities finds "U.S.-Mexican War (Television program)" with the same character as in Hewlett-Packard or "1809-1849", but I perhaps wasn't clear. I frankly don't care which glyph is used in representing it to readers so long as the stylists can agree. I do care that sources in the wikitext remain verifiable, and the best way to do that is to not tamper with the search string unless we have a WP:RS that says it is spelled differently, as evidence that the original contributor erred in spelling the citation. The very best sort of RS for this kind of data is found in the catalogue of a national depository library such as the BNF, the Library of Congress, and the British Museum. We should rely on the best sources we can get. LeadSongDog come howl! 21:14, 19 August 2010 (UTC)


-----Please note, I have [[Repetitive Strain Injury]] and find typing very hard. I use a form of shorthand, which may be difficult to understand. I can be contacted through MSN (sven70) or Skype (sven0921) if my meaning is unclear. (talk) 14:16, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Little Confused[edit]

On this edit (Line 503 to be exact), you delinked "Catholic Church", "Judaism" and "Islamic", but left other linked Christian religions. This is confusing. I linked "Catholic Church", "Judaism" and "Islamic" so it would be all the same compared with the Christian religions and no sense of favoritism. I am wondering what you delinked some but not others. - NeutralhomerTalk • 03:30, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

WP:OVERLINK says: "...avoid linking terms whose meaning can be understood by most readers of the English Wikipedia, including plain English words, the names of major geographic features and locations, religions ..." So my software looks for 15 specific major religions and related terms. But I also try to avoid situations like that one where there are a list of religions (or countries, etc.) where I might be accused of favoritism, and I probably should have been more careful in that instance. After reading this, feel free to link them back again. Art LaPella (talk) 03:43, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
To be clear, I wasn't accusing you of favoritism, but more of myself. I will relink those three and if you see anything else on the page (since it is a newly minted FA), please let me know or feel free to tinker. If you have information that could be useful to the page, feel free to add. Always looking for information prior to the 1730s on Stephens City. Take Care...NeutralhomerTalk • 03:47, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Just a technicality[edit]

WP:&, like the MOS advice on avoiding contractions, and a lot of other stuff, only applies to the article namespace (and templates used in it). Ampersands and contractions are often desirable in projectpages and essays and guidelines and stuff. Your change to WP:MODLANG wasn't one of them, but citing WP:& isn't necessary/useful outside ns:0. :-)

OK. It doesn't say that anywhere I know of, but that's reasonable anyway. Art LaPella (talk) 20:16, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

BWV 96[edit]

You moved BWV 96 from 'einge' to ein'ge and cite the score. Which score? Bachausgabe has einge. Alfred Dürr has einge. We are talking Bach times German, not today's. The template Bach-Cantatas has einge, also the lists of Bach-Kantaten in en-de-nn. Be so kind to revert. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:37, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Reverted. The score I got from the article: [1]. The title says "einge", but "Cantata No. 1" is translated anyway. I went by the words in the music (scroll down a page or two to where the singing starts). But I had a bad feeling afterwards when I Googled "Herr Christ, der einge Gottessohn" with and without the apostrophe. Art LaPella (talk) 21:47, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
Thank you! Good observation in the music. Free scores are a bit of a problem. I voted for international consistency and like that you followed. No bad feelings please, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:10, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
No bad feelings. Art LaPella (talk) 22:59, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Joan Sutherland[edit]

Hi. I know that WP:NBSP is not vandalism. I personally don't like it which is why I removed it as unnecessary from the MM-DD-YYYY format in the Sutherland article (I think I missed a few). I wasn't confusing it with the cartoonish symbols used in the comics to indicate profanity (e.g. $&**&%$!).

No the vandalism to which I was referring was "BALLLS", which another editor rv while I was still editing, but I didn't know so my edit summary remained the same. I have dial up and my computer is really slow, I mean really slow. The POV to which I referred was "she possessed a voice of beauty and power, combining extraordinary agility", although the product of a respected biographer (Norma Major), is still pretty obvious POV on Wikipedia, I would say. Individual tributes from fellow opera singers like Pavarotti and Horne are different.

Yours, (talk) 17:54, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Art -- as per your instructions I checked MOSNUM Non-breaking spaces. Maybe I'm nuts but I didn't see any reference to WP:NBSP and certainly no guideline mandate to use NBSP when creating or editing dates. If you believe the guideline says so then, with all due respect, you should create a bot and do an autofix because as far as I know most dates are not linked with NBSP, unless it happened overnight. If I am not understanding you correctly I apologize in advance. Yours, (talk) 18:27, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Well, having to go through such efforts would be onerous for those of us who are not as computer savvy as you and/or don't have the best bandwidth or browsers. (talk) 19:14, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Hey as unsavvy as you may claim you are, I am worse. They were teaching FORTRAN when I was in high school! I have yet to buy a CD player (my 80+ year old father was ahead of me in that regard; he died last year) and my stereo tape cassette is broken and I can't listen to my ABBA tapes -- seriously! What do they call that place on the web where you can buy stuff? Craig's Place, or something like that? (talk) 19:41, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Invitation to join WikiProject Bacon ![edit]

Oh won't you please consider joining WP:WikiProject Bacon? :)

Thank you for your time, -- Cirt (talk) 08:43, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Coastal Indians of Washington [edit]

Did you stop to read the deleted content that you re-added, or consider the WP:RS of the two references supporting it?

Although some of the topics discussed here, particularly potlatch, certainly need to be included, we are supposed to be writing an encylopedia here, not a kid's school report. This content was far below any acceptable level. Andy Dingley (talk) 19:52, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I did stop to notice the re-added content was pretty bad, but I also noticed the content that was kept was similarly bad. What does "they could pass the water by walking on their backs" mean? It sounds like vandalism (see Wiktionary:pass water). "there was natural food resources preserved" apparently means "were" instead of "was". "the wood was used for construction of houses and canoe making to basic tools" Does that mean "... and basic tools"? Etc. I also noticed that the content was removed by Kdennewith with edits like this one, obviously unreverted vandalism. So I'm not convinced that the remaining article is better than the article that someone allowed vandals to remove. But I'll let you deal with it. Art LaPella (talk) 20:13, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
The remaining content is hardly much better, but at least there's less of it. There will be even less soon. I might even re-add some of the deleted stuff (where it's acceptably accurate, encyclopedic and supportable), but those "references" have to go! Andy Dingley (talk) 21:11, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Conflict in Article of Andre Geim, winner of 2010 Nobel Prize[edit]

Hi, I am a foreigner and a simple reader of Wikipedia. Thank you very much for your job. Frankly say, Editing article:, is in a wrong way, by colluding of some editors and admins there. Their IDs are: Therexbanner, Gladsmile, Narking, Christopher Connor, RobertMfromLI, NickCT, Beetstra, 7. These Users are trying by reverting correct edits of the article, and doing a sort of anagram and "misusing" information in sources, show Mr. Andre Geim (winner of 2010 Nobel Prize in Physics) is not a Jewish and he has another ethnic. They seem like pure (but a bit hidden)vandalism. All correct RS sources, like:









- …

clearly show that Mr. Andre Geim is a Jewish (he repeatedly mentioned about his Jewishness, [subject of self-identification]) in ethnical point of view and his family was originated from Germany(he also several times mentioned that his family are German [origin]). Nowadays German is a general word, which could means: Citizenship, Nationality, Origin, residentship, and so on. When Geim is taking about German being of his family, clearly and logically he talks about their origin before emigration to Russia. There is the same situation about Richard Feynman: By the way in a reference:,_Oct_15_2010,_p._25.jpg, (that several times misused by above Users) Geim also said a story concerning Jewishness (clearly in religious point of view) of his grandmother, that of course it doesn’t mean that only his grandmother was a Jewish. Now in article as I checked the history of the article, above Users by reverting the correct edits there, try to present and show by their wrong way Mr. Geim an “ethnic” German person. The point is that in any RS sources, Geim hasn’t say that he has such ethnic, and he never used word “ethnic” there. Andre Geim won the Nobel Prize in the beginning of October; unfortunately, right after his winning until now, above Users kept the text of the article in a wrong position. In any case, if you have time, please check this Users carefully. By the way USER:Gladsmile, repeatedly reverted and undid the edits there, without any explanation(even wrong one). Personaly, seems like an extrimist Vandalism. BestAlexander468 (talk) 17:05, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

My contribution to Wikipedia is simple copyediting, not settling controversies like this one. My edit to the Andre Geim article, for instance, changed punctuation, wikilinks, and a typo, but it didn't change the article's facts at all. So I suggest Wikipedia:Dispute resolution, which makes several suggestions including Wikiprojects. Wikipedia:Wikiproject Judaism would be a good place to ask.
Furthermore, I don't understand why there is a complaint. The second paragraph of the Andre Geim#Personal life and education section presents the same information in your references above: "... reported in 2010 that Geim is Jewish ... he was called "a 'bloody Jew' by some ... Geim came from a family of Jewish-German origin ... Geim was Jewish". Do you want it to say "Geim was Jewish" more often than it does already? I'm not sure what point you were making about your last reference, but it doesn't matter because for one thing it has been deleted, so most Wikipedians can't even read it; and for another thing it's in Hebrew, so most of the rest of us can't read it either.
I also don't understand "USER:Gladsmile, repeatedly reverted and undid the edits there, without any explanation(even wrong one)." Each of his edits had a Wikipedia:Edit summary. Most of them said "He was not jewish". That is a wrong explanation, according to your references and according to the article as it exists now, so why did you say "any explanation(even wrong one)"? Also, User:Gladsmile might be accused of Wikipedia:Tendentious editing, but that isn't how Wikipedia uses the word "vandalism"; see Wikipedia:Vandalism#What is not vandalism. Art LaPella (talk) 05:42, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

200 years of Mácha[edit]

Hi Art, I am here after a long time. I have added five articles to wikipedia during the weekend because I lay down in bed with flu;) On 16 November there is a great anniversary of 200 years from Czech national poet's birth. I would like to contribute to that day with some of my articles being on DYK. I would like to ask you when you have time if you could correct my weaker and weaker English. The articles are Cikáni, Travel to Italy (Mácha), Diary of 1835 (Mácha), Eleonora Šomková, and Jan Nepomuk Štěpánek. Thanks a lot. Aloysius (talk) 18:37, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

  • My software wanted to add {{Orphan}} to the Travel to Italy article, so maybe you should mention Travel to Italy in some other article, such as the Karel Hynek Mácha article.
  • My software also wanted to add {{Uncategorized}} to the Diary of 1835 article, so you could add a category, as you and Darwinek did to Cikáni. Jan Nepomuk Štěpánek already had such a template.
  • I changed some quotes. That should be OK because the original quotes were apparently in Czech (or German), and I'm just correcting the translation. Specifically, in Cikáni I changed "brest" to "breast", and in the Diary I changed "advisible to by" to "advisable to be". Art LaPella (talk) 20:27, 31 October 2010 (UTC)


Art: Could you take a look, again, at this link, please? I've made a change, consistent with REFPUNC, but which I believe is actually creating confusion and/or otherwise not helping the article in question, Kim Jong Un.

Thanks. Saebvn (talk) 23:02, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm answering at the discussion linked above. Art LaPella (talk) 01:04, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
Thank you. Saebvn (talk) 03:20, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

My continued thanks[edit]

CleanupBarnstar.PNG The Cleanup Barnstar
Thanks for your never-ending efforts to fix my typos and other mistakes in the POTD blurbs. howcheng {chat} 20:03, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. I'm copying it to the barnstars on my user page. Art LaPella (talk) 23:06, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

REFPUNC Discussion[edit]

Dear Art: You might want to check out this discussion regarding issues concerning WP:PAIC and MOS:REFPUNC. I would welcome your contribution to the discussion here; see also here and here. The newest proposal seems to be to update the MOS and REFPUNC to reflect the 16th edition of the Chicago Manual of Style, which would address the Kim Jong Un issue by placing the reference mark inside the parentheses. A clarifying update to the text of the MOS is also on the table. I welcome your valuable input into this discussion. Best regards. Saebvn (talk) 15:25, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done Art LaPella (talk) 21:42, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

SummerSlam (1990)[edit]

Thanks for fixing my error in the piping in that hook. My main objectives in that edit were to remove the "(1990)" from the display (it is not part of the official name, but is part of the Wikipedia article title for disambiguation purposes) and remove the redundant "event"; I guess my old-and-traditional brain failed to register that there is no space between Summer and Slam. Thank goodness that the existence of multiple DYK queues now allows many of these kinds of errors to get caught before they reach the main page! --Orlady (talk) 21:43, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Re: Unspaced em dashes[edit]

What you are referring to is the punctuation section of the Manual of Style. In this case the em dashes are not being used as punctuation, that is, they are not part of a sentence. Instead they are being used in a list which makes it is acceptable to use spaces. – Zntrip 08:33, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Good idea. As you probably noticed I changed the em dashes to colons, after taking a look at other "international reaction" section formats. – Zntrip 22:34, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

AWB module[edit]

Hey, I noticed that your AWB module has a completely different structure to what I am accustomed to seeing/making. Furthermore, I have not a clue how to read it. However, I would be interested to know if there is a way of simplifying my code, which is incidentally derived from my common terms script and making it more easy to maintain? --Ohconfucius ¡digame! 02:07, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I can almost read yours. Sometimes I can see what the right side of a line is accomplishing (the repeated left side is from some programming language that I haven't had to learn to use AWB.) So I can't imagine how I would simplify it.
If there's enough interest in reading my code, maybe I can come up with a way to make it more readable. Here's how I produced it:
  • Go to the "Find and Replace" menu described here
  • Click "Normal Settings"
  • Select all (this is done by clicking the blank rectangle to the left of the "Find" heading)
  • Copy and paste
The result shows everything on the screen. Unfortunately it doesn't keep the lines separate: for instance, the first two lines, and part of the third, in my Find and Replaces are combined onto the first line at User:Art LaPella/AWB list. Every time it says "True" or "False" 6 times, that corresponds to the AWB check boxes labeled "Case Sensitive", "Regex", "MultiLine", "SingleLine", "Minor", and "Enabled". If it weren't for the "Comments" field, I could write a BASIC program to reformat this into separate lines by ending each line after the 6 "True" or "False"s. As it is, there's no easy way to distinguish the "Comments" field of one line from the "Find" field of the next line, but I could fix it by adding a phrase like "End comments" to each comment field. It hasn't been a problem because you're the first person to express an interest in reading it. I could separate the lines manually by hitting Enter a couple hundred times, but I would have to redo it every time I update User:Art LaPella/AWB list. At least I can use "AWB list" for locating things in my own code, because AWB's "Search" doesn't work very well. Art LaPella (talk) 03:17, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
  • I also see that your code is easier to read in edit mode, as the line breaks are visible. I tried pasting the content of your code into my AWB window as you indicated above (copy and paste), but it doesn't run properly. I note you say that the code was extracted by export/import - so perhaps the code isn't properly in place when I simply copy it over. What's more, after copying, even my module code doesn't execute. --Ohconfucius ¡digame! 03:51, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
You're right, it's easier to read in edit mode, so I added an instruction. It's true that I can't restore the code by copying and pasting. It already says that: "I originally tried to use this page for backup, but although I once copied several highlighted selections at once, I can't remember how, so I spent six hours typing this entire list manually back into AWB. I have since found out that backing up the file off Wikipedia as a data file, allows it to be restored all at once as a data file, so that's what I do now." That is, when I back up my business files, I also back up the AWB file C:\Documents and Settings\HP_Administrator\Local Settings\Application Data\AutoWikiBrowser\Default.xml . That backup isn't what you read on Wikipedia; it goes onto a DVD which also contains my business software and databases. The name of that file will be different on your system (it won't say HP_Administrator, for instance, if you aren't using a Hewlett-Packard.) But I have successfully recovered my software by copying from my backup back to that file. Art LaPella (talk) 04:57, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
Hmmm, I think this module would be potentially very useful to implement my Engvar conversions... I wonder if the developers might be interested in creating a proper import/export facility...? Perhaps you could make a feature request, as you understand how this part works much better than I do. --Ohconfucius ¡digame! 05:36, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
I'm talking about backup; you're talking about import/export. I believe "import/export" means a way for me to send you my code in a form that allows you to use it. There's probably a way to send you my backup file without changing it, but I don't think that would help you because it would replace anything you have in that file rather than add to it, and since there isn't an easy way to read it directly, I don't know what else is in that file that is unique to my user account. If I suggested that the developers provide backup, I wouldn't need to tell them how I do it – I back up using ImgBurn, which is well-known freeware, and any kind of backup would achieve the same thing. I'm not an expert in importing and exporting either, as what I do is backup, not importing and exporting. If you want to try out my code, it's probably time I added more comments to it, delimiting sections of code as you did to your own code. I think I could add blank lines to Find and Replace and use only the Comment field. Then you could copy anything that looks interesting, one line at a time; I don't have a better idea. Art LaPella (talk) 06:26, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. You got me right, I was slightly confused. I have now posted a query at WT:AWB. --Ohconfucius ¡digame! 08:05, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
I believe I found the file he's talking about at C:\Documents and Settings\HP_Administrator\Local Settings\Application Data\AutoWikiBrowser\Default.xml The size is 449,109 bytes. When I try to paste it into a Wikipedia user space article or into Wikipedia email, it gives me an hourglass for at least 10 minutes before I give up. If you sent me your mailing address (presumably through Wikipedia email) I could snail mail you a disk. The file starts out by listing articles on my list in AWB. Then it lists my code in this utterly unfamiliar format (this represents only two lines of my code as it would show in AWB, putting a spaced en dash between United States-Canada or vice versa):

- <Replacement>

 <Find>United States(-|–)Canada</Find> 
 <Replace>United States – Canada</Replace> 
 <Comment /> 
 <RegularExpressionOptions>IgnoreCase Multiline</RegularExpressionOptions> 

- <Replacement>

 <Find>Canada(-|–)United States</Find> 
 <Replace>Canada – United States</Replace> 
 <Comment /> 
 <RegularExpressionOptions>IgnoreCase Multiline</RegularExpressionOptions> 
Art LaPella (talk) 18:11, 30 December 2010 (UTC)

Reims Gospel[edit]

Hi Art and happy all year 2011 round! Yesterday I tried hard to make a nice article about a very interesting document. Please, can you check my language? Thanks a lot. Aloysius (talk) 10:59, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

My software added the {{orphan}} template. So you could either remove it, or find related articles that could mention the Reims Gospel and link to it.
A liturgy doesn't make me feel like celebrating, but I used that verb after a Google search shows it is the most common word for that situation.
I didn't know how to correct this sentence: "The text was believed the text was written by the hand of St. Procopius, abbot of Sázava monastery." Did you mean to say St. Procopius wrote the text? Or did you mean to say only that it was believed that St. Procopius wrote the text?
I usually do basic copyediting, not point of view edits. But you might want to change "The book used to be richly decorated and embellished with ... a fragment of the True Cross" by adding a word like "supposed" or "alleged". As I understand it, European cathedrals needed a relic before they could be established, so they have enough alleged True Crosses to crucify an entire Roman legion. Art LaPella (talk) 20:57, 9 January 2011 (UTC)


Just when I think I have the hang of this compound adjective milarky! ;) HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:50, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I don't understand what the "edit" in the above diff was? HeyMid (contribs) 14:56, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
I removed the hyphen from "oldest-known", which is hard to see if you aren't looking for it. Does that answer the question? Art LaPella (talk) 16:20, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
I see now. HeyMid (contribs) 17:12, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

WP:Today's featured article/February 4, 2011[edit]

Hi, I noted you corrected a typo in the TFA, and I was hoping you could replace a sentence that is probaly no longer accurate (as it is currently protected). Could the sentence:

"More than four million people each year visit Presque Isle State Park, for water recreation, and a new casino named for the state park is growing in popularity." changed to something along the lines of:

"Millions visit Erie annually for water recreation at Presque Isle State Park, as well as for attractions like a racino named for the state park."

Saying "new casino" and "growing in popularity" is somewhat inaccurate as it opened in 2007. I plan correcting this in the article's intro, as well. Thanks, ​​​​​​​​Niagara ​​Don't give up the ship 02:50, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

My proofreading is somewhat more basic, so I copied your request to WP:ERRORS. Art LaPella (talk) 03:04, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia Ambassador Program is looking for new Online Ambassadors[edit]

Hi Art! Since you've been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian, I wanted to let you know about the Wikipedia Ambassador Program, and specifically the role of Online Ambassador. We're looking for friendly Wikipedians who are good at reviewing articles and giving feedback to serve as mentors for students who are assigned to write for Wikipedia in their classes.

If that sounds like you and you're interested, I encourage you to take a look at the Online Ambassador guidelines; the "mentorship process" describes roughly what will be expected of mentors during the current term, which started in January and goes through early May. If that's something you want to do, please apply!

You can find instructions for applying at WP:ONLINE. The main things we're looking for in Online Ambassadors are friendliness, regular activity (since mentorship is a commitment that spans several months), and the ability to give detailed, substantive feedback on articles (both short new articles, and longer, more mature ones).

I hope to hear from you soon.--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 19:06, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm more of a Wikignome. Art LaPella (talk) 21:03, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
Cool. It kind of seemed that way, but I thought I'd leave you a message just in case you wanted to try something new.--Sage Ross - Online Facilitator, Wikimedia Foundation (talk) 21:11, 10 February 2011 (UTC)


I noticed your mistake here. The proper usage is "Coast of British Columbia", not "coast of British Columbia". The text will now have to be changed to the current current in the article because I have changed it from "Coast of British Columbia" to "South Coast of British Columbia". Volcanoguy 19:38, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, I couldn't verify that claim. If "coast of British Columbia" (or "coast of anywhere") is a proper noun, then everyone in this Google Books search is wrong. Books are checked fairly carefully for grammar errors, and I don't know of any official proper noun authority other than dictionaries. Art LaPella (talk) 21:12, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

IRC invitation[edit]

Because I have noticed you commenting at the current RfC regarding Pending Changes, I wanted to invite you to the IRC channel for pending changes. If you are not customarily logged into the IRC, use this link. This under used resource can allow real time discussion at this particularly timely venture of the trial known as Pending Changes. Even if nothing can come from debating points there, at least this invitation is delivered with the best of intentions and good faith expectations. Kind regards. My76Strat 08:33, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, but actually my contribution was only to correct a typo in a talk page heading. Art LaPella (talk) 19:12, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Help Desk followup re Wikipedia:Selected anniversaries/March 5[edit]

Hi Art. In view of your contributions here and in follow up of a request at the Help Desk, please look into this request before March 5th (Sorry about the quick turn around request). Thanks. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 16:10, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Apparently Howcheng is looking into it. Art LaPella (talk) 17:20, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi! A request for your input[edit]

Per wp:CANVASSING, this is a neutrally worded notice being sent, without any type of "selection" bias, to everyone that edited fairly recently the MOS page about how to term the Latter Day Saints denominations on Wikipedia in the belief that your various and collective expertise or expertises, if that's a plural, can help us improve its wording, if possible. a bit. The most pertinent section is here. And the issue is to what degree the terms "Mormon church" and "LDS church" relate to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, in specific, and to what kind of sourcing should be used to document this. Thanks, if you find time and the interest to look into the matter and offer your opinion or commentary.--Hodgson-Burnett's Secret Garden (talk) 23:23, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm a copyeditor, but I read thru your debate. I have no thoughts on that detail that weren't analyzed to death already. Art LaPella (talk) 15:50, 24 March 2011 (UTC)


Main Barnstar.png The Main Page Barnstar
Awarded to Art LaPella for becoming the first editor to make 2,000 edits to WP:ERRORS. With many thanks for all the hard work you do in trying to keep the main page error-free. BencherliteTalk 00:25, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
Thank you. I'm copying to my user page. Art LaPella (talk) 00:59, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
I've come here to say thank you for fixing my hook for The Press Building, Christchurch. I should know how to spell facade, but I didn't know about MOS:CAPTION. So thank you. But I also see that you try and keep the main page error free. Is a link to a dab page an error? Spam should probably point to Spam (electronic). Schwede66 05:42, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
Well, free of simple, non-controversial errors anyway. Linking to a dab page is an error according to WP:INTDABLINK. Therefore the ideal place to report it is WP:ERRORS, where someone might see it even if I'm not editing. But thanks for the report. Fixed. Art LaPella (talk) 06:07, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the clue-in, and hello[edit]

You replied to my missing the rather bad gag on the April 1 TMP TFA lede, (you love acronyms, right?) so I just took a look at your page. I liked this:

"If we can't talk about racial differences honestly, we can't investigate what probably caused the current (2008) financial crisis for example, although the Community Reinvestment Act article hints at it."

Holy cow, I thought I was the only one in the world who knew that. At least, until someone pointed me to this song about it. And to where the same author and a co-author wrote a more complete economic history of the US, very much from your (and my) free-market perspective. I wonder if they qualify for the "cultural references" section that so many WPans don't like, or something? ... by the way, the housing crisis is still going on in 2011, so it's still "current", even as some other sectors start to show some recovery. Might want to update that -- housing disaster started in late 2005 and isn't going to end this year or next.

Liked the rest of that paragraph of yours, too. Thanks again for cluing me in on the lame gag. Right now, I think I'll go hide from here for another couple of years, so if you feel like replying, I might see my page sooner than I'd see yours. And no, this comment isn't a gag, except for TAR (the acronym reference) in the first sentence, another point on which I concur wholeheartedly. :) Unimaginative Username (talk) 04:46, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Removing hyphens after -ly adverbs[edit]

I brought the subject up at WT:AWB/T#Removing hyphens after -ly adverbs. I'm staying off WT:MOS, as I don't like getting kicked in the teeth. I'm glad to see some editors can stand the abuse, though. More power to you! Chris the speller yack 01:33, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

That's a couple levels of automation beyond my experience. But if you just got the idea today, then how can you know the false positive level is low enough for WP:AWB/Typos? Art LaPella (talk) 03:34, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
I'm not pushing it for addition to the WP:AWB/Typos list, and I have just added clarification on the WT:AWB/T page. I didn't just get the idea today; I've run thousands of articles through it. Happy editing! Chris the speller yack 14:37, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

Request for assistance[edit]

Hi, Art.

I'm relatively new to Wikipedia, but I have an interest in copy editing. I looked at the Language portal, and saw a "Language of the month" feature that contained wording similar to "Leonese derives almost entirely from language" (where the last word is a link to a WP article.) That looked fixable to me, but I can't figure out how to edit the contents of the language-of-the-month box. (There are other issues -- no update in a long time -- but I'm not ready to take them on.) I've looked through Help Desk info and FAQs, but didn't find an answer. Can you point me in the right direction? Is there a page that talks about construction of portal or "of the month" pages? Do you know how to find an appropriate WP editor? Thanks!! Jo3sampl (talk) 13:34, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Portal:Language/Language of the month/June 2009 looks like the same thing I found at Portal:Language, so editing the former would probably change the latter. statistics show that portals aren't used much anyway. Does "I've looked through Help Desk info" mean that you asked at Wikipedia:Help Desk, and nobody could find it? Art LaPella (talk) 16:37, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

From Talk:Main_Page, I tried the Help Desk link, encountering "This page is only for questions about how to use Wikipedia. Are you in the right place?". Since it wasn't obvious to me that my question passed the test, I looked through the FAQs and then decided to find a knowledgable editor. Thanks -- change made. I made a note of the name structure you gave me, but I don't know how you knew. I don't see it on the Language Portal edit page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jo3sampl (talkcontribs) 18:12, 20 April 2011 (UTC) (That is, I don't see how I'd use the page to find the editable parent. Still learning! Jo3sampl (talk) 18:17, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

I should ask someone about the misleading "right place" message. It's definitely the right place to ask about editing Wikipedia.
I don't have a good answer for how I knew. The Language Portal edit page says {{Portal:Language/Language of the month/June 2009}}, but that isn't exactly user-friendly. At first I thought the bracket symbols meant it was a template called Template:Portal:Language/Language of the month/June 2009. That isn't it, so I tried the search box (that long rectangle in the upper right corner), and said something like "Leonese Language of the month". That was close enough; I found something that looked likely in the list. Art LaPella (talk) 18:34, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

I have now asked about "right place" at Wikipedia talk:Help desk#Are you in the right place? Art LaPella (talk) 18:44, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
Thanks again -- what you did when it wasn't quite clear makes sense and is helpful to me. Jo3sampl (talk) 19:19, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

In the news[edit]

Hello! Thanks for this typo correction. I was eager to correct the malformed "news" blurb, but I don't know how I overlooked the missing "in." —David Levy 20:02, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome. Art LaPella (talk) 20:20, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Forthcoming OTD[edit]

I did ask at WT:OTD#Hawkhurst Branch Line about the appearance of the Hawkhurst Branch Line article on OTD on one of three dates in June. So far, there has been no response. I'm not too sure of the procedure for selecting articles to appear on OTD, which is partly why I posted well in advance. Any advice please? Mjroots (talk) 09:17, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

I've never added new OTD items because I'm a copyeditor. So my advice is either: 1) ask the main OTD editor User:Zzyzx11, or 2) WP:SA instructions (Be bold, but follow these guidelines ...) Art LaPella (talk) 14:16, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
Art, I was just being bold - by showing all possible articles there were to choose from. I'm sure it's nothing that can't be fixed though. Now, is there any chance of the Hawkhurst Branch Line appearing on one of the next three days. It's not intended to be a permanent fixture on OTD, but just for 2011, the 50th anniversary of closure. Mjroots (talk) 04:56, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
Adding Hawkhurst wouldn't be 10% as bold as expanding the list to 14 items, so I don't know what to say except to repeat my previous post. Art LaPella (talk) 05:05, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
I did ask. The article has been added to each of the next three days in the hope that it would appear on one of them. Mjroots (talk) 05:26, 9 June 2011 (UTC)


Prodego talk 04:38, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

you're welcome Art LaPella (talk) 04:49, 1 June 2011 (UTC)


Art, I noticed you recently made an edit to the main page blurb, which I cannot do. Cole's final rank of Air Vice Marshal should be added before his name -- it's the convention with 2-star officers and above (in RL and WP) to always include their rank with their name. This also takes up less space than adding "he was promoted to" the rank at the end of the blurb. Thanks/cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 02:18, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

I copied it to WP:ERRORS, where it will be studied by others. Art LaPella (talk) 02:24, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Benedikt Rejt[edit]

Hi Art, it is exactly a fortnight that my first daugther was born and she is so nice that she sleeps very well and I have time then to write articles on wikipedia. Knock, knock, knock, I hope it will last until she starts talking and becomes a keen wikipedian girl;) Can you please spend (hopefully not waste) your time on checking my English? Thank you! Aloysius (talk) 20:47, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Only 2 weeks? I remember it taking longer than that for a baby to sleep through the night.
"he should have built the walls of the castles Rabí and Švihov" That means that he was obligated, that he was expected to build the walls. It implies that he didn't do what was expected of him. I don't think you meant to say that he didn't do his duty. Without explanation, that would be inconsistent with your effusive praise in the rest of the paragraph. I think you meant to say "he may have built ..." or "later, he built ..."
"Benedikt Rejt holding a ." Holding a what? I couldn't guess what he was holding, and the sentence doesn't make sense with "a" as the last word of a sentence. So for now I eliminated the words "holding a".
At one point you shortened Benedikt Rejt's name to just "Benedikt". In English, to use a person's first name without his last name is done only with acquaintances, or with titles like "Albert III, Duke of Saxony". Thus referring to "Vladislav Jagellonský" as just "Vladislav" is also confusing. At first I thought you meant Vladislav Hall. Shortening "King Vladislaus II" to "Vladislaus" would be normal. Art LaPella (talk) 23:43, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
Thank you! I corrected it according to your advice. Benedikt was holding a plumb line - I was looking for the word in a dictionary, something disturbed me and I forgot to complete the sentence:) I exchange Vladislav with "the king" but let Benedikt because in Middle Ages the first name was the main name and the others were usually just to distiguish - usually given to more important people - but in ordinary life they were called just by Christian names.Aloysius (talk) 19:17, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

re: How to make dashes[edit]

Reference this edit to the How to make dashes article, your comment was: "But how do you know if you have MouseKeys? At least I linked the article. And the explanation in the reference should show only in the long explanation, not the short one."

First, I agree with your changes. As for how I know, well in the SysTray at the bottom right of my screen to the left of the clock there is a mouse symbol, with the left click button shaded, when NumLock is off. When on, a circle with slash appears on top of it, and I can use alt+,0,1,5,0 to make the endash, etc.

OK, here's something – looking at the footnote:
If using MouseKeys, the Alt method of entering character codes will not work if MouseKeys are set to be active while numlock is on. Click Start, click Help. In search window, enter: MouseKeys and press Enter. In the left column, click "Change MouseKeys options". Follow instructions to: "Use MouseKeys when NumLock is Off".

Perhaps it should begin by saying: "If using Windows® MouseKeys..." etc.

The Help search takes the user to the dialog for activating or de-activating the MouseKeys, so that is another way to know.

I can't think of any thing else, so I'll leave it in your capable hands. Be well. —Telpardec (talk) 01:29, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Would it be accurate to insert this after "Got Mousekeys?" "It's a Windows option, and you don't have it if you haven't actively selected it." Art LaPella (talk) 02:04, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Got MouseKeys? (A Windows® Accessibility option not active by default.)
Telpardec (talk) 13:55, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks) says "Do not use the ™ and ® symbols ..." I'm using the rest of it. Thank you. Art LaPella (talk) 14:26, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

Harshad number[edit]

You are right; thanks for finding and pointing out the error. I've corrected it.  --Lambiam 17:52, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Overlinking in TFA[edit]

I don't really care what has been done in the past: otherwise, we'd still be date-linking. What I do care about is that spattering links to every Tom, Dick, and Harry (and unpronounceable political parties) is unhelpful. If a reader is interested enough to link to one of those Zanzibar political parties of the time, let them go to the article, which is what has been worked on and audited for main-page exposure (have you checked and fixed up the targets for all of the links you reinstated?). The article contains those links prominently and in broader, more useful context.

And the other way around, why tempt a reader to link straight to a secondary article on "Zanzibar", a location most readers won't be familiar with, rather than inserting (as I'd done), "an island off the east coast of Africa"? Everyone should be able to read the blurb knowing the basics without diverting to other articles: the whole purpose of TFA is to showcase the TFA, isn't it?

And now it's messily blue/black scattergun to read through, again. Tony (talk) 04:58, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

And I should say that I've come down with a nasty 'flu that's robbing me of any good humour I might have had. Sorry. Tony (talk) 08:21, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Konstantin Biebl[edit]

Hi Art, I am preparing a lecture on this poet for a local library so I decided to enlarge "his" article on the English Wikipedia, however I probabely should have chosen Simple English mutation;) Thank you for looking at it! Aloysius (talk) 20:52, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Now I can use Google Translate with the Czech language. As you probably know, computer translations aren't as good as a bilingual person yet.
"partly faked tuberculosis". If he was infected, he wasn't faking. If he wasn't infected, then he was faking, not partly faking. So how could he partly fake tuberculosis?
you are true, I just did not know how to express - he used an acquainted doctor to write the diagnosis which was not certain... after some time the symptoms became clearer;) Aloysius (talk) 11:10, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
"He flew away". The translation of a source was very ungrammatical, but it didn't suggest that he flew away in an aircraft. So I think you just mean "He escaped".
yes he escaped - I mistook flee with fly and combined it with run away:) Aloysius (talk) 11:10, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
"expressed their relation to the poet". It can't mean family relation, so should it be "described their relationship with the poet"? Or maybe "described their experiences with the poet"? "expressed condolences and sorrow"?
"described their relationship with the poet" seems best Aloysius (talk) 11:10, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
"the new avant-garde literary groups (Literární skupina, Devětsil)." Could that be "the new avant-garde literary groups Literární skupina and Devětsil."? Apparently "Literární skupina" just means "literary group", so was that the name? The source translation is "Brno Literary Group".
"Brno Literary Group" in this case, there were more groups he joined but these two most famous Aloysius (talk) 11:10, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
"dental mechanic" probably means "dentist", "dental assistant", "dental technician", or "dental hygienist".
"dental assistant" Aloysius (talk) 11:10, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
"Bez obav (Unafaired)". "Unafaired" isn't in the dictionary, and the Google translation is "feel free to". So it should be "... (Unafraid)" or "... (Unfettered)" or something. Art LaPella (talk) 01:39, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
it was just bad spelling, should be "... (Unafraid)" Aloysius (talk) 11:10, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
Thank you a lot. I am just leaving for a week off so after that I will get back to the article. Aloysius (talk) 11:10, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
The past tense of "flee" is "fled". "flew" in the sense of "fled without going airborne" is mostly obsolete; it makes me think of Shakespeare. The usual word for leaving a prison is "escaped", assuming he didn't have permission to leave. Prisoners of war usually aren't released until the war is over, so I made it "escaped". Also I added "{the diagnosis was uncertain)". Art LaPella (talk) 20:28, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Survey for new page patrollers[edit]


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Are you sure I've "patrolled new pages"? I've clicked "new edits" (I can't find that link any more) a few times to see if I could catch some vandalism, but I can't even define "patrolled new pages", and thus the questions about it are meaningless. Art LaPella (talk) 01:32, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Peter Percival[edit]

Thanks for fixing all the errors.Kanatonian (talk) 03:27, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome. Art LaPella (talk) 05:30, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

U Thant[edit]

Yes, you're right - I hadn't picked up that he had been Acting S-G from 1961 before becoming permanent in 1962, so when I found a reliable source in Secretary General of the United Nations that said 1961, I changed it without appreciating the 3 November 1961 / 30 November 1962 distinction mentioned here. Thanks for putting me right! BencherliteTalk 19:57, 30 November 2011 (UTC)