User talk:Athenean

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Barnstar[edit]

BoNM-Greece.PNG The Barnstar of WikiProject Greece
For bringing the article of the most "important" personality of Greek history to GA status, and for all your amazing contributions to Greece-related articles. Ola! Yannismarou (talk) 22:12, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you! It means a lot coming from you! I'll do my best to continue, as much as the real world allows me. Athenean (talk) 22:45, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Original Barnstar Hires.png The Original Barnstar
Thank you for your efforts!

Your support would be welcome to help improve the Hellenism page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenism Editorinfo (talk) 15:01, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Old sock back to wiki[edit]

It seems an old sock is back here, after spending some months in creating ultranationlistic material on the web [[1]][[2]]. Guess who adds again 19th century museum stuff as references and "understands" archaich Greek by using it for pov pusing?Alexikoua (talk) 22:27, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Yeap, his first edit is four days after Guildenrich's last sock was blocked. I'm going to start an SPI. Athenean (talk) 22:52, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Mediation Cabal[edit]

Hi there. I have offered to mediate a MedCab case you are involved in here. If all involved parties accept this offer, I hope to be able to bring a reconciliation on the issue. I would appreciate it if you could read the statement I posted on the page and let me know if you accept my offer of mediation. Thanks. Whenaxis about | talk 02:11, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to bother you again. If you are still interested in the case, it's still open here. So, when you are available feel free to take a look and leave a message. If not, please notify me on my talk page of your absteinance from the case. Thanks, Whenaxis about | talk 21:18, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

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Mobilization[edit]

Seems that the creation of 'P. of Albania' coincided with the creation of single purpose accounts and the attempt to mobilize all users of the same national background.Alexikoua (talk) 14:21, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

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Peloponnese photos[edit]

I am not here to either trick anyone or play it "clever". So please spare the "you wouldnt think i would notice it". I really cant understand your obsession not putting those pics in this article. I didnt erase any pics, I just put some pics, that show a part of Peloponnese. You might say that this is not representative of Peloponnese, but either the medow below is. But thats not the point. I dont think that here is a rule that we must ONLY put REPRESENTATIVE pics in an article. Thanks. Nochoje (talk) 21:06, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, we are in fact supposed to put ONLY representative pics in an article. Why? Because wikipedia is an ENCYCLOPEDIA, not facebook or flicker. It's explained in WP:MOSIM if you can be bothered to read it. I don't know what you see in those pictures. They are ugly, boring, and could be anywhere in the world. As for "obsession", I can't believe that you actually waited all these MONTHS and re-added them. Talk about obsession. Very disappointing. Athenean (talk) 21:27, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
This editor has failed to understand why he got blocked last time. I will prepare a few reports if he chooses to continue in this long-term disruption. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 22:39, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
OK fair enough. I read WP:MOSIM and well i guess you are right. You live and learn, since I am quite new in Wikipedia. But again, I didnt wait months to put photos in the article, I mean I've got other things to do besides that... :) Anyway I shall not put those pics again in this article.Nochoje (talk) 22:49, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for your message. It's fine. Please disregard my recent message on your talk. I hadn't seen your reply here. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 22:56, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Lead[edit]

I see your point, and I agree. But the thing is that I do not see the point in this edit. Anyway. What do you think about this edit? --Seksen (talk) 16:26, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

That's fine. Athenean (talk) 18:49, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 6[edit]

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Byzantine Empire[edit]

Hi! If you have a citation, which you intend to repeat, let's say for instance <ref>{{harvnb|Browning|1992|p=101}}.</ref>, then it is better to use the "ref name" format, namely in its first instance you write <ref name="B101">{{harvnb|Browning|1992|p=101}}.</ref>, and then you just repeat <ref name="B101" />. In this way, you avoid the reappearance of exactly the same citation as being a different one (while it's not really a different one). See how I formated your recent citation in the article (in accord with its stable version), and also check [3] and [4]. And also, since you are rewriting the particular section, if you have any sources to replace "Norwich 1998", please do it, because it has to go (it provides no page) or, at least, to be backed with a proper citation.

Is this your first active experience with FAR? How do you find it?! I return to FAR after some years, and, as far as I am concerned, I feel again some of the old time "excitement"! Καλό ΣΚ!--Yannismarou (talk) 14:55, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Geia sou Gianni, yes, this is my first experience with FAR. It is an immense amount of work, because the article is so large. There is simply no way I could do it all myself. Quick question: Let's say I have three consecutive sentences sourced to the same source. Should I simply add a citation at the end of the last one to avoid clutter? Or should I add a citation at the end of all 3, otherwise people might assume the first two are uncited. Thanks, Athenean (talk) 20:15, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
Well, there is no "correct" answer. I personally prefer the second approach. I want every paragraph to be properly cited, but, if three sentences in a row have exactly the same citation, I'd rather put it at the end of the third sentence. However, I see that there is often an "overexcitement" in Wikipedia with citations, and I am not sure that everybody agrees with me. For me, it's just simple logic, but ... --Yannismarou (talk) 21:54, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
I tend to agree. After all, any user that actually checks the citation will see that the whole paragraph is cited to that citation. Besides, if anyone mentions it on the FAR, i will just explain my approach. I will proceed with that approach then. Athenean (talk) 21:56, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Developed Country again![edit]

Hi Athenean,

You might want to see the above article. There is a user that keeps reverting the Newsweeks' Quality Index. It strongly resembles banned user that did the same in the past if you recall.Thanks.Nochoje (talk) 18:44, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Reported him, should be blocked soon. Thanks for keeping an eye out. Athenean (talk) 20:33, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Section demographics ( aritcle Albania)[edit]

I see you changed the sentence back and gave the reason that the source says "most". In this case do you mind putting the quote on the sentence since without it is misleading i.e. the source you provide says most which hardly means that is true as it one quote saying most. Also there are two sources for those sentences please indicate which one. See also the talk page where one of the sources is challenged. Please do not respond driven by nationalistic views and understand my request for the quote since you say you cite a whole sentence and if that is the case those are necessary and in the message you put most in quote so i am sure you understand. However the paragraph is hardly encyclopedic since is understood most when it comes from one book saying most. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Purusbonum (talkcontribs) 22:35, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 16[edit]

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Byzantine Empire (again!)[edit]

Hi! When you add new sources, as I think you did in citations 89-94, do not add these new sources in the citations section but in the "Secondary Sources" of the References section. Per the standard of this article and Harvard Ref system (which is used consistently throughout the article), in the citations we only put author-year-page. Otherwise, first we are inconsistent and secondly we break the uniform use and utility of Harvard Ref. in the article. As regards your source in citation 94, take into consideration that I have already used Cameron throughout the article but from the Greek edition (a kind present to me by the translator of the book himself and former Wikipedian, Giorgos Tzimas). I think it's best to stick to one edition of the same book. I'll thus find the respective page of the Greek edition and I'll fix the citation.

Finally, take note of the two notifications above (6th and 16th March) brought to you by the bot as regards disambiguations. Try to avoid linking to disambiguation pages, and, whenever you find such pages in the article, please try to fix them. In the sections I rewrite and source, I check separately each wikilink to see if there are disamb. problems. It may seem trivia, but, to the contrary, complete avoidance of disambiguation pages (as well as consistent following of MoS rules) is one of the criteria for FA status. Have a nice weekend! Best,--Yannismarou (talk) 08:20, 17 March 2012 (UTC)

Ah, that's what that bot wanted. As soon as I saw it was from a bot, I ignored it. Anyway, I'll keep that in mind in the future. I'll try to finish sourcing the Komnenian section sometime this week, time permitting. Athenean (talk) 19:30, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi Athenean, as I told you above I have used throughout the article the Greek edition of "the Byzantines", since it was easier for me to access it (I have it in my hands as a gift from Giorgos), and I did not have to google. So, if it is only 2 citations that you used the English version, I'll search the respective pages of the Greek edition (as I already told you above) and I'll fix them. I hope I'll be able to work on the article tomorrow or after tomorrow. Best, --Yannismarou (talk) 22:53, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
Hi Yanni, currently, there is only one citation to the English version, in the "Apex" section. So that should be easy to fix. But I was planning to use the English version to source the "Komnenian" section, since that version is fully viewable online. This may then become a problem. Since the English version is fully available online, but to my knowledge the Greek one isn't, I was wondering if it wouldn't be better to do it the other way around, i.e. replace the Greek version with the English version. Cheers, Athenean (talk) 23:34, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Alternate names[edit]

I didn't remove the Turkish name from the Svilengrad article and the section on the origins of Svilengrad covers the etymology of the Turkish name, so there isn't really a need to have it in the lead. Also, there isn't really any evidence that the Turkish name of Svilengrad actually meets the criteria for being included in the lead (10% use in English literature or a former significant Turkish population). You should be familiar with the criteria, as you've applied them creatively yourself. AngBent, on the other hand, has been trying to remove the name from the Ellinochori article altogether (and he's been doing it elsewhere as well).

Also, don't threaten me. With your long and rich history of nationalist POV pushing on Wikipedia, you're not exactly in a position to lecture others on not being neutral. Kostja (talk) 18:37, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Now, now, don't make things up. I didn't say you removed the Turkish name from the article on Svilengrad altogether, just that you removed it from the lede on the grounds that it is already included in the History section. However, in Ellinochori, even though the Bulgarian name is already included in the History section, and its etymology explained, just as in Svilengrad, you edit-warred to keep it in the lede. It's hypocrisy, there's no talking your way out of it. Now, unlike you, I don't give a hoot whether the Bulgarian name is included in the lede or not, but I just can't stand hypocrisy.
By the way, I didn't threaten you, nor did I lecture you "on not being neutral", or any such thing. I just said that if you continue edit-warring, I will report you. Which is just a simple fact, as that the sun will rise tomorrow. And considering your rich history of nationalist POV-pushing, as well as the sheer number of reverts, it won't be pretty. On the other hand I am glad to see the message seems to have gotten through. Have a nice day. Athenean (talk) 21:18, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
You're distorting my actions. I was reinserting the name along with the history section AngBent was removing. This is completely different from the Svilengrad case.
You know very well that I wasn't edit warring, you have enough experience with that. And yes, it wouldn't be pretty considering not only your edit warring history which is considerably longer and significant than mine (I, for example, have not had the "honour" of appearing on the ARBMAC page) but also your entirely one sided intervention. Why didn't you warn AngBent for repeatedly removing a relevant name from the article altogether? As for your message, it does seem to have some effect, as the article hasn't been reverted - yet. Kostja (talk) 07:04, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
I don't see why the Bulgarian name needs to go into the lede of Ellinochori, while on the other hand the Turkish name of Svilengrad can't be in the lede. It is the same exact situation on both articles. And yes, you were edit-warring, if slow-revert warring, and you know that very well. Be defiant all you want, I don't really care. But if you continue like this, you will get the "honor" of appearing on WP:ARBMAC, trust me on that. Unlike you, AngBent doesn't appear to be active lately, nor is he as experienced, and unlike you, I have managed to keep my nose clean lately. So yes, it's definitely in your interest to not push this. Athenean (talk) 07:21, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Byzantine Empire[edit]

Hello Athenean. I've read your recent comments on the Byzantine Empire discussion page and wanted to let you know that the sentence you previously added to the lead of the entry was probably inspired by the content in the Byzantine Greeks entry (specifically in the "Revival of Hellenism" section). Hope this helps to clarify things (it's the least I could do to show my appreciation for your excellent contributions to the quality management inspection process, regardless of the mistakes that all of us, including myself, can make from time to time). Take care. :-) No. 108 (talk) 21:20, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Ah yes, that's it. Sourced to Ahrweiler, wonderful, thanks inspector. By the way, I wanted to ask you, do you know of any good sources on the Macedonian Struggle, the article seems to suffer from a lack of them. Athenean (talk) 21:30, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Hmmm. I would definitely need time to look into the matter Athenean. But I can tell you right now that the entry in question desperately needs an inspector's touch. No. 108 (talk) 21:54, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
P.S. I could be mistaken, but isn't Constantine an expert on this particular period of Grecian history? No. 108 (talk) 21:54, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
As per your request, I've found a number of (hopefully reliable) sources which may be of use to you:
Best of luck in all of your endeavors. Take care. :-) No. 108 (talk) 23:40, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Excellent, thank you. Athenean (talk) 18:36, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Dispute resolution survey[edit]

Peace dove.svg

Dispute Resolution – Survey Invite


Hello Athenean. I am currently conducting a study on the dispute resolution processes on the English Wikipedia, in the hope that the results will help improve these processes in the future. Whether you have used dispute resolution a little or a lot, now we need to know about your experience. The survey takes around five minutes, and the information you provide will not be shared with third parties other than to assist in analyzing the results of the survey. No personally identifiable information will be released.

Please click HERE to participate.
Many thanks in advance for your comments and thoughts.


You are receiving this invitation because you have had some activity in dispute resolution over the past year. For more information, please see the associated research page. Steven Zhang DR goes to Wikimania! 11:43, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Macedonia (ancient kingdom article) revert[edit]

Athenean I left a post on the Talk page of Macedonia (ancient kingdom) putting forth the reasons for my edits. Can you please examine it and respond. I will also add the first quotation mark into the Herodotus quote.

Nath9091 (talk) 23:34, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Sulmues[edit]

With his sick time pattern and the usual childish pov, he again revealed his identity.Alexikoua (talk) 20:23, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

DYK for Agkistro[edit]

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:04, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

mikis[edit]

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "Mikis Theodorakis". Thank you. --Soosim (talk) 10:30, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Content, not contributor[edit]

This comment is not acceptable per WP:CIVIL. If you want to discuss the content, please do so, but stop commenting on E4024's alleged motivations. And bringing Turkey into the issue had absolutely no bearing. Finally, WP:RECENTISM doesn't mean we ignore all recent news; furthermore, it's not even policy. Yes, we need to apply WP:UNDUE (part of WP:NPOV), but the results of national elections hardly count as unimportant. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:17, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, my bad. But I stand by my point regarding WP:RECENTISM, and I also think it is WP:UNDUE. After all, there are new elections scheduled to be held less than a month from now. By the way, did you see his reply, the bit about "projection"? Athenean (talk) 03:44, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
This has to be seen in the context of E4024's recent commentary such as The Republic of Cyprus Joined the Eurozone, about four years before Greece destroyed it. Such display of anti-Greece POV is naturally going to make a few people wonder about his real intentions. There was a lot of WP:BAIT and WP:BATTLE in that edit summary of E4024 and there are more examples. Such verbal violence in edit summaries is an abuse of the edit-summary system and makes the intended targets to sometimes respond in a suboptimal manner. Perhaps Athenean should not have taken the bait but his questioning of E4024's motives was at least based on solid empirical evidence. Ironically, if as E4023 asserts, Greece has destroyed the eurozone, this solves the problem for Turkey and protects its national honour; you cannot join something that does not exist. And thanks to Greece, nobody can reject your EU application if they have been disbanded, thus giving you precious plausible deniability. Turkey can always assert, after the fact, that she did not want to join such a house of cards in the first place. National Honour saved, mission impossible accomplished. And all thanks to Greece. Who would have imagined. Having said that, this conflict definitely needs to decompress. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 09:15, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
Fair enough on both comments (regarding E4024's behavior; as behavior, no comment on the political issues)--I know how hard it is to try to act civilly in the face of repeated bad behavior. I wonder if E4024 might be amenable to taking a voluntary break from the topic area just so that things cool off a bit. I'll ask xyr. Qwyrxian (talk) 12:57, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
Thank you Qwyrxian. And of course you are completely excused from commenting on my attempt at political humour. :) Take care. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 13:10, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
Sorry to occupy your talk page Athenean, but as I have been referred to, here, I need to make a clarification for Dr.K.:

When I wrote the above quoted Edit Summary at the Cyprus article I had already written that the "Republic of Cyprus" entered the Eurozone, (not Cyprus), for two or three times and my edit had been reverted every time. In one of those futile previous tries I even added a reference from an "Embassy of the Republic of Cyprus" official source about the entry of the "Republic of Cyprus" in the Eurozone, without being able to prevent another revert. I even set the embedded "Eurozone" link in the article myself. Without any detriment to anyone's position on the Cyprus dispute, it is sunshine clear that the "Republic of Cyprus" entered the Eurozone and not the island. (If we accepted otherwise then we should possibly delete the Northern Cyprus article in WP.) All of us here know that the TRNC is not part of the Eurozone.

The interesting thing is that now the Cyprus article keeps my last edit on this issue. This means that I was right from the beginning but probably that Edit Summary of mine that Dr.K. quoted above helped people to see it...

Anyhow, I repeat: I am not an "aggressive Turkish nationalist". I am only Turkish, neither nationalist nor aggressive...

All the best,

P.S. As Dr.K. states in his/her own Talk Page, contributions should be taken for their content and the discussions about content should be made in the Talk Pages of the Articles and as I believe in the same I have left some "food for thought" here and there. I hope I receive some feedback at the relevant Article Talk Pages. In the meantime I will devote myself to other activities, if not provoked. Hope this is my last visit here or to any other user's Talk Page. --E4024 (talk) 17:32, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Well, let's hope for the best. Thank you for your comments. The message at the top of my talk regarding article content discussions is not set in stone, so please feel free to visit my talkpage at any time if I can be of any assistance. Best regards. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 02:52, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Template[edit]

Hi Athenean, keep a close eye on Template:Greek Orthodox Christianity. There's a user not happy with the Albanian entry. Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 14:38, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

I have to be honest, I am Orthodox myself but not an expert on the Greek Orthodox church. Is its removal correct? Evlekis (Евлекис) (argue) 17:20, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
Of course not. I left an explanation in the template talkpage. Basically, the "Greek" is meant in a cultural sense. Any church that conducts mass in Greek can be considered part of Greek Orthodox christianity. Autocephaly has nothing to do with it. The Orthodox Church in America is 100% autocephalous, but because it conducts mass in Greek as well as English, no one in their right mind would remove it from the template. Other churches, such as the Bulgarian and Serbian ones, don't conduct any masses in Greek, therefore no one in their right mind would include them in the template. But most importantly, the article Greek Orthodox Church mentions the Albanian church, and it sources it to 3-4 different sources, so placement in the template is warranted on those grounds alone, let alone the rest. Thanks for keeping an eye out. Athenean (talk) 09:55, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Jup Kastrati[edit]

Jup Kastrati (1924-2002) is a reknowned philologist, basically the founder of the Luigj Gurakuqi University of Shkoder, or one of the main figures of academic research in philological studies in that city. Mesfushor (talk) 22:53, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Interesting, what kind of stuff has he published? Maybe he can tell us how the Albanian "Dy"+"rrahe" somehow became the "Durres" via a Slavic intermediary? Because toponyms don't generally go from Albanian --> Slavic --> back to Albanian. Athenean (talk) 09:22, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
It's just a question of interpreting through Illyrian->Slavic->Albanian. I'm not a scholar though, so we have to rely on him and others. He has notably published the History of Albanology (1497-1997) in three volumes. Mesfushor (talk) 14:30, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
"Dy" and "rrahe" are Albanian, not Illyrian, as far as I can tell. We don't know what the Illyrian words for "two and "ridge" were in Illyrian. Which seems to imply that modern Albanian was spoken in antiquity. Weird. Athenean (talk) 14:41, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
I'm not a specialist, and my knowledge in linguistics is limited. In general lack of specialized studies and limited writings (i.e. evidence) in Illyrian for several centuries make the study difficult, however toponymy and Classical Greece authors are mainly the sources for certain deductions. It'd be good to have this book available to read more about Illyrian-Albanian languages continuity, but I haven't read it. Kastrati and Demiraj are reliable sources since their scholarship is proven, whereas I wouldn't bring to Wikipedia amateur historians such as Spiro Konda, Robert d'Angely, or Mathieu Aref, whose contributions have historically not been endorsed by the Academy of Sciences of Albania. Mesfushor (talk) 15:06, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

History of mathematics[edit]

I don't understand the bold text and italic text code you added here [5]- I've removed it and fixed the image, as you removed a "]" unintentionally. Dougweller (talk) 09:11, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Oops, no idea how that happened. Thanks for taking care of it. Athenean (talk) 09:19, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
No problem, I've done worse! Dougweller (talk) 15:59, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Talk[edit]

Hi. Please see talk here [6] re recent activity you might have been involved in Slovenski Volk (talk) 00:51, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

Serbia[edit]

Your edit is hardly constructive and since you have not provided sources to challenge my view, your edit seems highly tendentious to say the least. I don't see why you, of all people with all your experience on here, would delete sourced material clearly reflecting a non-partisan view. Ottomanist (talk) 00:17, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Καλησπέρα Αθηναίε[edit]

Καλησπέρα,

θα ήθελα τη βοήθεια σου σε ένα θέμα. Στο άρθρο Alexander the Great στη σελίδα της συζήτησης γίνεται προσπάθεια να γραφεί το όνομα του Μέγα Αλέξανδρου στη γλώσσα του FYROM δίπλα απο την ελληινική, υποστηρίζοντας ότι ήταν βασιλεύς του αρχαίου Μακεδονικού βασιλείου που σήμερα είναι, όπως υποστηρίζει, τα Σκόπια. Συγκεκριμένα αναφέρει

i would like to edit where Alexander the Great was the king of Macedon now know as Macedonia and a macedonian translation of his name Bacondevil8 (talk) 14:38, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Μην αφήσεις κάτι τέτοιο να συμβεί. Υποστήριξε ότι το όνομα γράφετε στα ελληνικά διότι αυτή ήταν η αυθεντική μορφή του ονόματος του, στα ελληνικά. Το πώς το αναφέρει ο κάθε λαός στη γλώσσα του δεν είναι σημαντικό για το άρθρο.

Ευχαριστώ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Br shadow (talkcontribs) 10:43, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Protocol of Corfu[edit]

Thanks for the hand dealing with minor c-e issues.Alexikoua (talk) 20:53, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

Reported[edit]

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding removing sourced material. The thread is User: Athenean.The discussion is about the topic Topic. Thank you. —Ottomanist (talk) 00:27, 4 July 2012 (UTC)


amfisvititai h Ellinikh parousia sthn kroatia prin to 4 aiona p.x. sthn germaniki wiki[edit]

7ia cou a8inaen, 8a h8ela na 6is ti ginetai sto 7ermaniko wiki, sto ap8ro k i6ika sth shzhtish. prospa8o e6o k mhnes na beltioso to ar8ro (MiY) dustixos me mplokaroun kai mpoikotapoun, amfisbitite kai agnoite i ellinikh parousia sthn kroatia, opos ke olokliri h buzantini epoxh pou opos xerume htan sxedon xilia xrwnia. boi8a s parakalo sto oste ou pseftes ths istorias na ma8oun thn pragmatikothta.--YUGO (talk) 12:55, 7 July 2012 (UTC)

Arbcom[edit]

You've been reported here. - Ottomanist (talk) 23:37, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Oldest universities[edit]

Hello. You have shown in the past an interest in the subject of the oldest universities. I am therefore notifying you of an ongoing discussion concerning the topic here. Regards. Gun Powder Ma (talk) 20:05, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Παραβίαση κανόνων - Ανάλυση του ονόματος σε άλλο άρθρο - Analyse of a name to another article[edit]

  • αναστροφή και άσχετη ανάλυση υπέρ της τουρκίας
  • Καλησπέρα φίλε μπορείς να επέμβεις και να διορθώσεις μια κατάφορη παραβίαση των κανόνων της εγκυκλοπαίδειας παρακαλώ Ο συγκεκριμένος χρήστης έχοντας την ανοχή του παλαιού χρήστη συνεχίζει να αναλύει το όνομα του επταπυργίου σε ένα άσχετο άρθρο παραβαίνοντας το w.p., προφανώς είναι αλυτρωτική τουρκολαγνική συμπεριφορά. Περιμένω κάποια αντινμετώπισή σου. Ευχαριστώ --Πασχαλινό (talk) 23:52, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

WP:BLP[edit]

You added a BLP violation to University of al-Karaouine. Please remove it. nableezy - 19:01, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

about English[edit]

hey Athenean from turkey with Love also nice madals — Preceding unsigned comment added by Salako1999 (talkcontribs) 23:03, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Al-Karaouine[edit]

You are invited to take part in a discussion which aims at achieving a final stable version in a spirit of cooperation and consensus. Gun Powder Ma (talk) 21:01, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Muslims[edit]

The Turks of Western Thrace article says the Greek govt. since 1983 deems them Greeks not Turks. It's sourced. Can you clarify? DeCausa (talk) 19:59, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the Greek government refers to them as "Hellenic Muslims". But that's just the Greek government, which moreover does so for political purposes. However, I have yet to see a reliable source that considers them part of the Greek ethnic group (not the "Greek nation", as the Greek government does). I have removed "nation" from the lede, to make clear that the article is about ethnic Greeks, not people of Greek nationality (which would include the Turks of Western Thrace). It is quite cleat that the article is about ethnic Greeks, not Greek citizens, which is why the Turkish minority, the Roma, etc... are not mentioned. They are mentioned in Greece however, which is the article regarding the Greek nation so to speak. Athenean (talk) 20:11, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

"Cannot see"[edit]

I'm not sure where you looked, or if at all, and given that I'm at a 'read only' status at AMs, I will provide you with the full quote of the data you removed here [7]: It was only after the death of Alexander the Great with the increasing Hellenization of Macedonian culture and the emergence of Rome... Pg: 168 (bottom line) -> 169 (top line). If you are the fair man you say you are, then re-instate the phrase in good faith. Slovenski Volk (talk) 09:39, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

I cannot view page 168 online for some reason, which is kind of strange since I used to be able to. But I will assume good faith on your part and reinstate said wording anyway. Athenean (talk) 19:19, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
Cheers. Yep, google books can change, sometimes even stop previews. Anyway, thanks. I shall take time off for what looks liek a long time. I will devote some time to other Balkan history article. Feel free to comment Slovenski Volk (talk) 12:28, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Turkey[edit]

The situation at the Turkey article is unfortunate in many respects. However, do not accuse other editors of being sock or meat puppets in edit summaries as you did here. If it's that "obvious", then file a report at WP:SPI.--Bbb23 (talk) 16:57, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Athenean , you might be interested in this discussion.[8] Any ideas as to how to deal with this kind disruption? Kurdo777 (talk) 17:06, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
Something's definitely not right. He just appeared out of nowhere and started reverting everyone everywhere. Unfortunately I am not sufficiently familiar with the topic area to know whose sock he is yet. But I will file an SPI as soon as I figure it out. Meanwhile said user is behaving extremely disruptively, he is basically a revert-only account and highly incivil at that, labeling everything he doesn't like "vandalism" (red flag!). I think I'm going to open an thread at ANI and see what the community thinks. Stay tuned. Athenean (talk) 17:35, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:43, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
I'll come around too when you do that. Apart from his other problems Stijena today did not discuss the issues on the talkpage of Turkey but blindly edit-warred. A few days ago he revenge edit-warred on my talkpage copying back the messages I gave him for his wanton edit-warring on multiple articles. Something has to be done systemically about this disruption. Aren't there any ARBMAC sanctions covering his behaviour? Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 18:19, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
Please see my latest reply to Bbb23 for more context on this. [9] Kurdo777 (talk) 17:55, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

This issue has been brought up on ANI, since you're familiar with this situation, can you comment here please [10]. Kurdo777 (talk) 01:31, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Compromise on Tenedos[edit]

Please see newest proposal for a compromise solution along the lines of many other similar places with similar naming situations. Really interested in any input. AbstractIllusions (talk) 13:21, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Please immediately delete your accusations against me in the Tenedos discussion. I contacted two previous commenters (DarkLordSeth and Future Perfect) on name change requests because I appreciated both of there critical looks at the evidence. DarkLordSeth previously SUPPORTED a name request, and FuturePerect previously OPPOSED a name request. I aimed for that balance intentionally and for you to accuse me of trying to stack the deck is not appreciated. I contacted two users who I think would provide good insights into the discussion and who have voted for different sides in the past. I'm giving this a break while I travel for the next day or so, but I would greatly appreciate if that erroneous allegation were removed. Thank you. AbstractIllusions (talk) 20:49, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
Athenean, to my mind it's OK to call Tenedos Bozcaada. It's the official name after all, but I understand where you are coming from. What should be done is to expand the Turkification article to include a list of all the Turkified names with their original historical ones. If you are feeling artistic, you should create a visual template with a nice Greek icon (ionic column?) with text <parameter 1> is historical <parameter 2> to produce something like Bozcaada is historical Tenedos. Don't forget there are pre-Greek names too and Armenian ones in the east as well and so on. A visual eyecatching template is a fair compromise especially for a very famous historical place like Homer's Tenedos. Perhaps an image of Homer should be the icon. HelenOfOz (talk) 12:16, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
A template for Homer's Catalogue of ships would be nice too. HelenOfOz (talk) 12:32, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Xenophon as inspiration for Alexander[edit]

Hi Athenean. It's a long story so I will make no attempt to fill you in about the background. A disclaimer first: You are under no obligation to spend any time on this, but if you are so inclined, could you possibly give your opinion about this statement: Alexander surely had knowledge of the Anabasis, which served at the very least as an obvious military inspiration, when one considers his march east across the Tigris (Green 1970) contained in this edit: diff. Could a statement along these lines, modified of course etc., be added to the Xenophon article? My thanks in advance. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 03:28, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Also this proposed addition: Unwittingly, Xenophon opened the way for Alexander." Durant, Will, "The Story of Civilization. Many thanks. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 13:17, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Spa activity[edit]

It appears that this obssesive move request on Tenedos is a product of combined spa accounts (newly created or anonymous). The nominator appears to be quite accustomed with canvassing practices: note that almost every active Turkish user with activated wikimail has supported its national side. This makes me believe that we have just the reincarnation of an old troublemaker.Alexikoua (talk) 21:23, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Notice of Wikiquette Assistance discussion[edit]

Hello, Athenean. This message is being sent to inform you that a discussion is taking place at Wikipedia:Wikiquette assistance regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. TheDarkLordSeth (talk) 17:44, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Hellenic languages[edit]

Καλημέρα. Θα μπορούσες σε παρακαλώ να ρίξεις μια ματιά στο Hellenic languages; Είχα μια διαφωνία και δεν ξέρω πως να προχωρήσω. Ευχαριστώ. -Γιάννης 88.193.103.47 (talk) 04:52, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Βασικά, κοίταξε πρώτα αυτό αν μπορείς... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection#Hellenic_languages_.28edit.7Ctalk.7Chistory.7Clinks.7Cwatch.7Clogs.29 88.193.103.47 (talk) 04:56, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Kokoretsi[edit]

Hi, I noticed that Greek source used in the article about Kokoretsi to support the assertion that the name of this meal ultimately come from the Albanian kukurec. Will you please be so kind to try to check if the source (Γ. Μπαμπινιώτης (Babiniotis), Λεξικό της Νέας Ελληνικής Γλώσσας, Δεύτερη Έκδοση, Athens, 2002) really supports such assertion?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 21:58, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Re: Heads up mate![edit]

Not sure what the problem is, but User:Salako1999 has a beef with you, and he's gone to the effort to vandalize your userspace with a personal attack to illustrate his point. I'd keep an eye on him, if I were you, and make sure to stay inside the law as always. Cheers Pal! The Illusive Man(Contact) 06:26, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, he does seem to have some issues with me apparently. Thanks for keeping an eye out. Athenean (talk) 08:58, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

The Olive Branch: A Dispute Resolution Newsletter (Issue #1)[edit]

Welcome to the first edition of The Olive Branch. This will be a place to semi-regularly update editors active in dispute resolution (DR) about some of the most important issues, advances, and challenges in the area. You were delivered this update because you are active in DR, but if you would prefer not to receive any future mailing, just add your name to this page.

Steven Zhang's Fellowship Slideshow

In this issue:

  • Background: A brief overview of the DR ecosystem.
  • Research: The most recent DR data
  • Survey results: Highlights from Steven Zhang's April 2012 survey
  • Activity analysis: Where DR happened, broken down by the top DR forums
  • DR Noticeboard comparison: How the newest DR forum has progressed between May and August
  • Discussion update: Checking up on the Wikiquette Assistance close debate
  • Proposal: It's time to close the Geopolitical, ethnic, and religious conflicts noticeboard. Agree or disagree?
Read the entire first edition of The Olive Branch -->

--The Olive Branch 18:50, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

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Minorities in Greece[edit]

You may want to reply to this edit. Filanca (talk) 20:26, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Ancient Greek inscriptions[edit]

Hi. Are you able to decipher what Greek dialect is used in these inscriptions from Byllis {or know of a source which has discussed them ? ? [11] [12] [13] Thanks Slovenski Volk (talk) 04:37, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi there, I am unable to view the inscriptions because my browser doesn't like the applet, but even if I were able to do so, I think you would be far better off finding a reliable source that discusses them rather than relying on my interpretation of them :) Athenean (talk) 07:49, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
Fair enough; it ha been difficult to find; many sources about the historico-political history of the city etc but next to nothing on whether they are in NW grek, Corinthian or Attic. I'll keep trudging Slovenski Volk (talk) 21:21, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Anti-Serb sentiment[edit]

G'day Athenean. I saw your reversion on this article, and I wondered what your rationale was. This article is basically a coatrack, and has been for some time. There isn't even a WP:RS provided that there is such a thing. Please see the talk page for more discussion. Peacemaker67 (talk) 08:00, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi, while I agree that the article has problems, I strenuously disagree with moving the "Criticism" section to the lede, and adding that unsourced statement justifying said sentiment. This is independent of whether the article is a coat-rack or not. Athenean (talk) 08:03, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Notice of Dispute resolution discussion[edit]

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DRN participation?[edit]

Hi. There was a dispute noticeboard case at Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_48#Minorities_in_Greece in which you were mentioned as a party. A notice was posted on your talk page, above. The issue is still open, and your input is needed. If the DRN case is re-started, with a neutral 3rd party mediator, would you be willing to participate? --Noleander (talk) 04:55, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi there, unfortunately I don't think I have the time to devote to a protracted DRN process at this time. Athenean (talk) 13:46, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

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Greece infobox[edit]

Hello Athenian. You may want to pay attention to Greece's infobox. Two users, from neighbouring countries (I suspect not the best intentions in their editing), try to establish 2012 GDP data estimates, when in fact it is well known in Wikipedia that we always include previous years data (in our case 2011) until the next year is over. All countries, at least the very vast majority, have 2011 data for the economic figures. We need to keep consistency. It cant be that 99% of the countries articles have 2011 data and only Greece and Bulgaria (the user is from this country) have 2012 data. Thanks. Nochoje (talk) 17:12, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Great Fire of Smyrna[edit]

Hi. Can I ask you something about that article?--Rapsar (talk) 22:18, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Serbs and Croats as Sklavenoi?[edit]

Is this really possible? The Sklavenoi (and Antes) settled the Balkans in the 6th century whereas the Serbs and Croats are explicitly described to have done so only in the 7th century as part of a second wave? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.230.54.125 (talk) 02:11, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

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clueless, vindictive ...[edit]

So when your first edit to a page happens immediately after an edit I make that is neither clueless or vindictive? And I need to knock it off? Sure thing. nableezy - 20:39, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I came to Bethlehem entirely by accident, honest. I know it seems weird, but you should assume good faith on that. Athenean (talk) 20:43, 6 November 2012 (UTC)
not that nableezy and i see eye to eye on many things, but it is also strange that it was immediately after i made an edit as well. (nableezy - athenean has been removing some of my edits on a different page over the last 24 hours). very very interesting. Soosim (talk) 06:16, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
Yes, it's funny, isn'it? Nableezy thinks I followed him around, and you think I followed you around. Obviously it can't be both, so which is it? I can see this becoming a major new source of obsession. Or maybe you just need to be less paranoid and assume good faith for once (to his credit, Nableezy already has). And in any case my edit to the article was a significant improvement over yours. Athenean (talk) 08:28, 7 November 2012 (UTC)
i had assumed good faith even before nableezy did! it was only after i saw this that i was worried. i am not paranoid. please do follow me. i have lots of fun here. you should too. and thanks again, for significantly improving my edits. i am in awe. Soosim (talk) 08:33, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Regarding the source of the word geometry[edit]

Hello Athenean,

You simply undid the modification I had put in yesterday. Can you tell me the reason. I am new to Wiki editing and so probably your opinion in this matter will help.

Thanks Tushar

Regarding the source of the word geometry[edit]

Hello Athenean,

You simply undid the modification I had put in yesterday. Can you tell me the reason. I am new to Wiki editing and so probably your opinion in this matter will help.

Thanks Tushar — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tushar.krsna (talkcontribs) 06:13, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Possible block evasion[edit]

Please take a look at the Siege of Tripolitsa, it appears we have a possible block evading unlogged user in action.Alexikoua (talk) 21:58, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

Stop dealing with Albanians I have just calculated the numbers again and the result was about 8 million.Stop trying make the Albanians smaller.We don`t hate you because you`re Greek. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Medvegja (talkcontribs) 14:05, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

You are either mistaken, or lying. The numbers do not add up to 8 million, use a calculator. I'm done with you, next stop is WP:AE. Athenean (talk) 14:17, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Albania[edit]

Go to Albania talk page. I JUSTIFIED WITH SOURCES, why each source is and isn't reliable. Unlike yourself, who just randomly decide according to your gut what is and isn't reliable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by IllusionFinal (talkcontribs) 01:33, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Please don't delete ![edit]

Albanian communication in greece. Why delete `? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Albanianp (talkcontribs) 12:30, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

People of Levantine-Greek Orthodox Christian descent[edit]

Dear Athenean,

Since you seem to be a rational soul and know about the « Byzantine » (no pun intended!) subtleties of 'old European' cultural categorization and (Pan) Hellenic history, I’m writing to draw your attention on the fact that some reckless Wiki-Boeotians wants to delete the “People of Levantine-Greek Orthodox Christian descent” and the “American of Levantine-Greek Orthodox Christian descent” categories!

See this page

Your editorial help in the current « deletion debate » would be appreciated

Cordially,

--B.Andersohn (talk) 18:34, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Istanbul and the Black Sea[edit]

I have looked at a map. It seems to me like Istanbul is on the Black Sea. What's your argument? --Mttll (talk) 23:57, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Albania[edit]

Hello Athenean. Have you noticed any new accounts working on this article who might be socks? I applied semiprotection on 22 December. For the previous socks, removing CIA statistics from the article seems to have been a popular activity. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 06:33, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up Ed. Indeed, almost certainly a sock of IllusionFinal. If the disruption continues I will file an SPI. Athenean (talk) 16:58, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Mail[edit]

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Albanians in Turkey[edit]

Yes they are 500,00 by according. But 1,300,000 Million of all. the rest can not speak albanian.

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Cham Albanians Genocide[edit]

Redirects go to WP:RFD, not WP:MFD. I moved it for you. Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 00:43, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks a bunch! Athenean (talk) 02:08, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Nationalistic barrage[edit]

Since you 've dealed with perma blocked Sulmues in the past, I've just want to inform you that he is in full swing in the German wikipedia, attacking the very same articles he targeted in the English one.Alexikoua (talk) 21:07, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

Rest in peace[edit]

File:R2-D2 Droid.png Rest in Peace. Proudbolsahye (talk) 02:52, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Plovdiv[edit]

Since you dealed wth the specific sockpuppet (Ceco31), he continues to vandalize the concensus lead verion of the article.15:05, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

New Age nonsense and Indian astronomy[edit]

I've replied to your post on Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#"The Celestial Key to the Vedas: Discovering the Origins of the World's Oldest Civilzation", by B. G. Sidharth. You should check out the publisher's site, it's a peddler of New Agey nonsense. The book doesn't look reliable at all.--Ninthabout (talk) 13:55, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for your help. That's what I thought, however it's nice to see other people think so as well. Athenean (talk) 16:38, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

Human rights in Turkey[edit]

About "European Union standards of minority language in courts" I have examined and tried hard to find those standards are, but in vein. European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages seems to be the most widely applicable standard, as far as I can find. Do you know, or would you like to search which "standards" are meant there? In any case, the Charter does not look like something inferior to the EU applications, since there are criticisms to the EU members for non-compliance with the Charter. I think we need to confirm this information ("non-compliance with EU standards") from another source in addition to the one by a single journalist. It is not in DW, Reuters, Hürriyet, etc. but let me know what you can find. Do you agree with me that this single journalist is not enough and we need confirmation? Filanca (talk) 00:49, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

No I don't agree. When you added that journalist, you obviously thought she was a reliable source. Now that you've realized that what she writes does not conform to your agenda, all of a sudden she's "not enough". The European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages has nothing to do with the EU by the way, it is signed by many countries that are not EU members. Athenean (talk) 00:58, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
She possibly meant the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union. Athenean (talk) 01:08, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

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Ancient Macedonian language sources[edit]

Hi Athenean! Please have a look on the collection of sources I've made for the article. It needs a refresh with recent material and a good summary of the various theories. I feel we have to make a clear distinction between historians and linguists, as well as assumptions and real arguments. I have still a lot of contributions to make, but I think I have already covered a big part of modern views on the matter. Fkitselis (talk) 22:18, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Even the polishing is very welcome. If there's a lot to be edited it is always good with som extra eyes on the syntax. In any case, I have a long way to go. I want first to collect all sources available and capture a snapshot of the current situation. I know that the article is trying to be very balanced and it is, but it does need an update considering the latest views. Also, some contributions have not been as giving as others. For example, Bonfante (with great respect to his other work) does not qualify as a meaningful contribution. Also, Hoffmans theory is way outdated. We can mention him for historical reasons, but not as a view shared by linguists today. Also, old Thracian theories are obsolete too. Thracian was clearly a satem language with very different features than Macedonian (except maybe the voiceless stops, IF they were voiceless). That doesn't mean Thracians didn't live in Macedon of course. Well, I think you get my main point. Fkitselis (talk) 11:59, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Falkonera[edit]

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:03, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Hello[edit]

Hi Athenean, it's been a while! Hope you are keeping well. I'm messaging you regarding the recent discussion on Template:Turks, I've had enough of arguing about populations with this anon as it is obviously User:Ledenierhomme. I'm happy to discuss the template itself with you but I don't have the energy to waste my time with that user anymore. All the best. Turco85 (Talk) 16:46, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Please wirte true thing in the albanians wiki article[edit]

ok greeko ? --79.204.72.189 (talk) 12:37, 3 April 2013 (UTC)JOHNNY

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Byzantine Empire, lead[edit]

I have reverted your change to the lead. You accused me of trying to "own" the article than pronounced you would change it. What you changed was supported by multiple editors. Give them more then 5 hours to respond.  —Sowlos  23:38, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

The previous version of that part of the lede was the consensus version. I don't see any support or even discussion for your lumping of the Macedonian dynasty and Manzikert in the same sentence. Also, I don't see you object to the other changes I proposed and made, so what's with the blanket revert? Athenean (talk) 23:42, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Byzantine Empire lead dispute[edit]

We don't seem to be getting anywhere. I've opened a ticket at Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Talk:Byzantine_Empire.  —Sowlos  19:33, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, though it's unfortunate it contains little more than personal attacks against me. Oh well, it's only your credibility you undermine, not mine. Athenean (talk) 21:41, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Too fast[edit]

You have been about 2 seconds faster than me :-) Alex2006 (talk) 18:37, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

 :) Athenean (talk) 18:40, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

please recuse yourself from the Turkey article[edit]

if you are a Greek national, please recuse yourself from the Turkey article. obviously non Greek, non Turk editors should handle the NPOV disputes -WikiSkeptic (talk) 03:08, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.[edit]

Peacedove.svg

This message is being sent to you let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You do not need to participate however, you are invited to help find a resolution. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! Cavann (talk) 18:41, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Deletion of Content / Wikipedia is not a battleground[edit]

You have deleted parts of Turkey-related articles [14] [15]. I had to fix it in both cases [16] [17]. Given that you are one of the main contributors in various Turkey-related articles such as Turkey, Constantinople Massacre of 1821, Human rights in Turkey, Racism and discrimination in Turkey, Greek Genocide, Turkish invasion of Cyprus, and Anatolia, please be more careful before deleting content and try to find reliable sources first. This "delete first and ask questions later" is not helpful and does not improve Wikipedia articles. You also give no chance to people actually finding sources, since few people are as active as you are in various Turkey-related articles, and since you just delete content, without even tagging let alone finding sources yourself.

The only time you seem to be adding content and/or sources seems to be when it comes to adding something in a negative context such as this [18]. Remember Wikipedia is not a battleground Cavann (talk) 00:49, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

The only time "you seem to be adding content and/or sources seems to be when it comes to adding something in a negative context"? What a wild and unfounded accusation, and stunning bad faith assumption. FYI, I have done a LOT of good work on Turkey related articles, such as [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25]. I could go on and on and on. This is exactly the same situation as Istanbul, where you rushed to judgment against tariqabjotu and assumed bad faith against him, only to realize that it was he who was singlehandedly responsible for raising the article to FA. I strongly urge you to assume good faith on the part of your fellow wikipedians, not rush to judgment, and remain civil (no more "learn to read", please).
As for Taqi al Din's observatory, I'm not sure what you mean by "negative", his observatory was unfortunately burned down, and that's a fact. What would you have me do, hide that information from our readers? Why, because you don't like it? Should we also remove mention of the Armenian Genocide from wikipedia because it is "negative"? As long as something is well-sourced, on-topic, and given due weight, it can be added to an article, there is no such thing as "positive" and "negative". The fact that you think in terms of "positives" and "negatives" shows that it is you who has a POV problem, not me.
Regarding sourcing, you are either not aware or misunderstanding or not aware of wikipedia's sourcing policies. The key policy is WP:V: "Any material lacking a reliable source directly supporting it may be removed. Whether and how quickly this should happen depends on the material and the overall state of the article." The way I apply this policy is as follows: If I see something unsourced or poorly sourced that sounds like nonsense, I remove it. This was the case with the Mehmed II at Troy stuff, because the site of Troy wasn't even identified until 1822. However here [26], where I thought the claim was plausible, I didn't remove it, I tagged it with a cn tag. So your claim that I "just delete content, without even tagging" is a lie. I have been applying WP:V in this manner for years now, stand by it, and will continue to do so in the future. You will also notice that nowhere does WP:V state that the user who challenges the unsourced material is under obligation to go looking for a source. "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. WP:V suggests that the user who challenges the material try to find a source, but that is only a suggestion, not an obligation, and even then only if one thinks the material is verifiable, which in the Troy case I didn't think it was. Again, I suggest you start assuming good faith and remember, wikipedia is not a battleground. Athenean (talk) 05:45, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
As for my removals regarding Ali Qushji, surely you will agree that the material I removed had nothing to do with the Ottoman Empire. You found a source that shows he was influential in the Ottoman Empire? Excellent! But nowhere does it say that was I obliged to do so. Athenean (talk) 05:47, 2 May 2013 (UTC)
Of course you are not under any obligation. However, as one of the main editors in various Turkey-related articles, your constructive editing would help. You seem to be involved in so many articles revolving around issues related to Greece, such as Turkey or Albania or Macedonia-related content.
For example, you seem to be very concerned about minorities [27] (or given your contributions in Greek Genocide), yet you delete information like this [28] (Justin McCarty estimates). I re-added this information, with the correct numbers [29]. If it was not for this [30] [31], or if I hadn't gone through your edits in Ottoman Empire today (and I just got to the 2nd page with 500 edits), I would not have known.
Another example, whenever you revert something, either Dr.K. or Proudbolsahye seems to follow you. I understand editors may have similar interests and opinions, but this could be a problem with respect to WP:Canvass (a recent example: you get into a pointless edit war with Maurice07 [32], and Dr.K. magically shows up [33], even tho he had never edited that article before [34]).
Another example is when you cited me WP:SS with respect to lead [35], yet, another article where you are one of the main contributors, Racism and discrimination in Turkey, is a disaster when it comes to its lead, with entire quotes and everything in the very lead.
In short, given that there is a relevant Arbitration case, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2, in which Turkey was part of the issues, and that Wikipedia is not a battleground, you should be extra careful about being neutral. I don't wanna spend too much time in your talk page, so this will prolly be the last time I'm writing to you. I'll assume good faith and I hope we can improve the articles. Cavann (talk) 02:07, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
I "magically follow up" all sockpuppeteer vandals like your friend Maurice07. Or didn't you know? Refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Maurice07. So before you put my username in your personal attacks again make sure who your friends are. And by the way this is a wiki. Your contributions are visible to everyone who cares to look. This is how I found you making bigoted comments against Greek editors on the Systemic bias noticeboard. I see you haven't learned. I suggest that you do so. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 02:18, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
Whatever. This (23 April 2013) was before sockpuppeteer investigation (May 2). I said what I came here to say and am not interested in any more discussions with you. Cavann (talk) 02:23, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
23 April 2013 was indeed before the SPI. But do you seriously think the SPI came out of the blue? Check Maurice's socks. I had started tagging them since 26 February 2013‎. That was a long investigation. As far as saying what you wanted to say don't be surprised with what the people you accuse have to say in return to your sayings. But for the sake of peace I will stop here. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 02:32, 4 May 2013 (UTC)
@Cavann: I don't appreciate you coming here and insinuating "You seem to be involved in so many articles revolving around issues related to Greece, such as Turkey or Albania or Macedonia-related content." Yeah, and? What's your point? Many of these articles are plagued by ultranationalists, as you can imagine. My edits are constructive, and I don't appreciate insinuations that they aren't. I have been editing for six years, I must be doing something right. Also please don't come here lecturing me that I need to be neutral, do you realize how patronizing that sounds? What about you, are you neutral? Is Justin McCarthy neutral? Regarding Racism and discrimination in Turkey, no, with 3 edits I am not "one of the main contributors. As for canvassing, there is none on my part. Contribs logs are publicly viewable, and Maurice07 is a particularly disruptive nationalist editor, so it wouldn't surprise me that many people are following his contribs. I do appreciate you saying you will assume good faith, though, and that you will try to improve articles. I will do so likewise. Athenean (talk) 04:30, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
It seems you are continuing the type of behaviour I explained in the first post in this section, [36] based on frivolous reasons such as coming up with blatantly incorrect definitions of Western Anatolia [37] or applying a geographic standard that is not applied to other parts of the article [38] (my response [39]) to disassociate relevant events to present your own POV in the article. Cavann (talk) 19:45, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Sock is back[edit]

For more see here. I would do it my self, but i have problems with opening of the SPI at the closed archive... :) All best. --WhiteWriterspeaks 20:41, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Nothing to be done this time. It's legit. Athenean (talk) 06:49, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Sources for Gemlik-Yalova[edit]

You might try;

  • "Sorrowful Shores : Violence, Ethnicity, and the End of the Ottoman Empire", by Ryan Gingeras.
  • "Ionian Vision: Greece in Asia Minor, 1919-1922", by Michael Llewellyn Smith.

I do not own either and have no idea what information either book contains. --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:03, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. But I don't own them either, and they are not viewable online. Athenean (talk) 22:08, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Re:Janin[edit]

no problem, altough usually are Turks the ones who remove his references :-) If you love I Poli (as I do) and you know french, you should absolutely read "Constantinople byzantine" and "La geographie ecclesiastique de l'empire byzantin". They are devoted respectively to the topography and to the hundreds of churches and monasteries of the City (capital "C" :-)). They are really monuments of knowledge. People like Janin unfortunately don't exist anymore... Kalimera, Alex2006 (talk) 07:22, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

I do love "the City" and I speak French, so I'll be sure to check it out. Thanks again. Athenean (talk) 07:31, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

User:Oxr033[edit]

Just to make you aware of User:‎Oxr033's statements and possible intentions.[40] --Kansas Bear (talk) 22:44, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. Will keep an eye out. Athenean (talk) 23:25, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Love history & culture? Get involved in WikiProject World Digital Library![edit]

World Digital Library Wikipedia Partnership - We need you!
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Hi Athenean! I'm the Wikipedian In Residence at the World Digital Library, a project of the Library of Congress and UNESCO. I'm recruiting Wikipedians who are passionate about history & culture to participate in improving Wikipedia using the WDL's vast free online resources. Participants can earn our awesome WDL barnstar and help to disseminate free knowledge from over 100 libraries in 7 different languages. Multilingual editors are welcome! (But being multilingual is not a requirement.) Please sign up to participate here. Thanks for editing Wikipedia and I look forward to working with you! SarahStierch (talk) 21:25, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.[edit]

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. DragonTiger23 (talk) 09:57, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Greek help needed[edit]

Hello Athenean, I'm contacting you because we need some Greek translators to help with the deployment of the new VisualEditor on el.wikipedia. There are help pages, user guides, and description pages that need translating, as well as the interface itself. The translating work is going on over on MediaWiki: Translation Central. I also need help with a personal message for the Greek Wikipedians. If you are able to help in any way, either reply here, or head over to TranslationCentral. Thanks for your time, PEarley (WMF) (talk) 18:26, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Million Award[edit]

Million award logo.svg The Million Award
For your contributions to bring Alexander the Great (estimated annual readership: 2,990,000) to Good Article status, I hereby present you the Million Award. Congratulations on this rare accomplishment, and thanks for all you do for Wikipedia's readers. -- Khazar2 (talk) 16:01, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

The Million Award is a new initiative to recognize the editors of Wikipedia's most-read content; you can read more about the award and its possible tiers (Quarter Million Award, Half Million Award, and Million Award) at Wikipedia:Million Award. You're also welcome to display this userbox:

Million award logo.svg This user won the Million Award for bringing Alexander the Great to Good Article status.


If I've made any error in this listing, please don't hesitate to correct it; if for any reason you don't feel you deserve it, please don't hesitate to remove it; if you know of any other editor who merits one of these awards, please don't hesitate to give it; if you yourself deserve another award from any of the three tiers, please don't hesitate to take it! Cheers, -- Khazar2 (talk) 16:01, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Leskovik disruption[edit]

The way the 'new' user reverts in zero time and the fact he is interested in supposed anti-Albanian massacres in this region and anti-communist activity, reminds me to an old user. Let's hope he will limit his activity in this site in future [[41]].Alexikoua (talk) 17:07, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Sciurba (talk) 23:19, 11 October 2013 (UTC)==Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion== Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. Cavann (talk) 22:01, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

POV[edit]

"The region of Himarë is populated also by an ethnic Greek minority", this is the best way for the opening words, otherwise it's POV. The Greeks of Himara are an ethnic minority, do not exceed the natives Albanians. Bye —Sciurba (talk) 23:19, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

No one is interested in your personal opinion. The sources are clear. If you can't or won't read them, that is your problem, not mine. Bye. Athenean (talk) 23:27, 11 October 2013 (UTC)
Hi! This is not my personal opinion, is a matter of presentation on wikipedia. Writing that is "predominantly" inhabited by Greeks is POV. This is a "personal opinion". the Greeks are a minority in Himara. You live in Greece? Greetings from Italy, ciao! —Sciurba (talk) 23:58, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Falsification of sources[edit]

Akcak 2012 does not define "Turkification" as the text you added suggests.[42] More explanation: [43] [44] See WP:Verifiability. Also see article talk page: [45] Any future attempts at falsifying sources will be referred to ARBCOM. Cavann (talk) 19:10, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Four of the five source use "Turkification", so go ahead and run to ARBCOM all you want. By the way it's "Akcam", not "Akcak". Athenean (talk) 19:12, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
That is why I had suggested this "If you want to add Turkification to this part "During World War I, the government of the Committee of Union and Progress continued with population policies to homogenize the population of Anatolia, which effected non-Turkish minorities, such as the Armenians during the Armenian Genocide and the Greeks during various campaigns of ethnic cleansing and expulsion" you have to take out Akcak 2012 and 2005 as sources, since his definition is different. You may also wanna add a qualifier since definition of Turkification is different in Akcak, Jwaideh, and Samuel than Rummel's" [46]. But your pattern of ignoring NPOV is clearly ongoing. Cavann (talk) 19:14, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
It's quite obvious Akcam (with an "m") is talking about Turkification, see WP:BLUESKY. But if that's what it will take to prevent your edit-warring, I will remove him. There's enough sources anyway. Athenean (talk) 19:20, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
It is quite weird that you cite WP:BLUESKY, when the author clearly defines the term in p.29:
"The two main pillars of this policy,which can be characterized as the government’s “population and resettlement policy,” were as follows: the first entailed the “cleansing” of Anatolia’s non-Muslim (which basically meant Christian) population, who were considered a mortal threat to the state and even described as a “cancer” in the body of the empire; the second was the assimilation (read: Turkification) of all of Anatolia’s non-Turkish Muslim communities."
Are you editing without reading the sources, or does falsifying sources come so easily to you? If you want to use the term "Turkification" in that manner, you also have to add qualifiers, since it is not a uniformly defined term, and since we already have Turkification in the lead, which is used in a different manner. If you are defining "Turkification" as forced assimilation and/or ethnic cleansing, etc, in the body of the article, then this part in the lead "However, it was the arrival of Seljuk Turks which also brought the Turkish language and Islam into Anatolia in the 11th century, which started the process of Turkification of various peoples in the region" becomes obvious POV-pushing, and certainly not WP:BLUESKY.Cavann (talk) 19:34, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
Very well, I will add "forcible" to Turkification. Ethnic cleansing and genocide are a form of forcible Turkification. By the way, watch your tone, "does falsifying sources come so easily to you?" is highly incivil, and an assumption of bad faith. Remember what I told you on your talkpage. Athenean (talk) 19:41, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
"forcible" Turkification is forcible assimilation according to Jwaideh, and Samuel. I thought "population policies to homogenize the population of Anatolia" complied with all the sources and conveyed the message accurately. However, if you want to use the term Turkification so badly, I suggest something like violent Turkification of Anatolia through ethnic cleansing, etc, and take out Akcam 2012 and 2005 as sources from that sentence, since his definition of Turkification is different. I still think "population policies to homogenize the population of Anatolia" is more accurate and you do not have to take out any source.Cavann (talk) 19:55, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
"Violent Turkification through ethnic cleansing" is redundant and needlessly verbose considering "ethnic cleansing" is already mentioned in the sentence. It is quite obvious to any of our readers that the Turkification mentioned in this sentence is "violent" and "forcible". Athenean (talk) 20:55, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Special Barnstar Hires.png The Special Barnstar
Thank you for your kindness and for all the contributions you make to Wikipedia! Zurkhardo (talk) 23:58, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
Aw, thanks!

User:Yozer1[edit]

This editor has already been notified of restrictions regarding AA2, so you might consider reporting said editor for this and other edits[47] on the Ottoman Empire article. --Kansas Bear (talk) 05:11, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 1[edit]

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Dassaretae[edit]

I am not confusing nothing, you from your side are trying to invent an non-existing "Greek" tribe between Berat and Korce just were the Illyrina tribe is described. And what do you mean by "old sources"? So , according to You Strabo is not relevant? I have Strabo's work in front of me, Dassaretae are mentioned only in "Illyria" book.
As far as for the administrators, they can handle the case, it is fine for me. If they say that I am wrong and Dassaratae were greek, still fine for me.
I will try to inform all constructive people that want to contribute to Albanian articles about this issue, the lack of interest from the editors have led to you and your colleague (the other editor who always shares the same opinion with you) messing up all Albania-related articles.
This in not anymore about choosing Greek vs Albanian, this is about you inventing things without any single citation or clear reference.
Despite your attempts to present the Dassaretae (today's Berat area) as Greek,it can not change what Strabo says. You can go in Berat and ask what they are.

One more thing, why don't go and read the references and tell me what you think before reverting stuff. I'll wait for your answer after you read them before reverting your changes.
Mondiad (talk) 21:48, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Strabo is a bit old. There are newer sources out there, such as the ones already in the article, which you keep removing. You should also familiarize yourself with WP:PSTS. Do you know the difference between a primary and a secondary source? Athenean (talk) 21:53, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Happy New Year Athenean![edit]

Fireworks in Jaén (cropped).jpg
Happy New Year!
Hello Athenean:
Thanks for all of your contributions to improve the encyclopedia for Wikipedia's readers, and have a happy and enjoyable New Year! Cheers, Alex2006 (talk) 19:50, 1 January 2014 (UTC)


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Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year 2014}} to user talk pages with a friendly message.

My new username[edit]

Hello Athenean,

This is Proudbolsahye. This is my new username. Etienne Dolet (talk) 18:06, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Valtetsi (village)[edit]

Hi ! I notice that you are devout to keeping Wikipedia standards.- I please request you to pay a visit to the Valtetsi (village) page. I have noticed that there is a user inserting personal information derived from a personal blog, which I find goes against the historic reserach rigeur that "official" webpages and books give. I undid twice this ammendments but I do not wish to sart a edit war, therefore I leave it in your hands. Kindest regards.- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.235.134.102 (talk) 23:55, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Parts of Greece shown as Albanian in some of the Albanian-made maps used in Wikipedia.[edit]

Some of the Maps used in various Wiki articles, have the borders between Albania and Greece moved, and have the Greek territories incorrectly shown as Albanian. How to fix them? There is a problematic map used in the Sarande article for example, which shows part of Greece's Thesprotia prefecture under Albanian authority: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarand%C3%AB_District

More specifically, the map of our subject is this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sarand%C3%AB_District.svg

There is a strip of land between Corfu and Greece in Thesprotia, which is shown as Albanian instead of Greek. To understand the difference, you can check the Greek map, here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epirus_%28region%29#mediaviewer/File:Epirus_-_municipalities_and_seats_EN.svg which properly shows the yellow western-most land strip of the Filiates Region as part of Greece.

How can this be corrected? I have failed to find how to replace a picture in Wiki Commons. I could be grateful for any help or response, as I lack your experience in fixing stuff in Wikipedia! Thanks! --SilentResident (talk) 09:23, 25 July 2014 (UTC)