User talk:BSmith821

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Hello, BSmith821, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:

Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! Vsmith (talk) 20:19, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Please provide WP:reliable sources to support your additions to Wikipedia articles such as your recent additions to panspermia. Thanks, Vsmith (talk) 20:19, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

I've also undone your recent edits to Chandra Wickramasinghe because you replaced sourced material with unsourced. Please be careful there and if you feel the sourced material needs replacing, discuss it on the talk page first. Vsmith (talk) 20:30, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Me again :) Regarding your recent edit to talk:Chandra Wickramasinghe: Per Wikipedia custom (and rule) we don't modify another user's posts. You should start a new section at the bottom (per convention and that's where we look for new stuff). The easiest way is to click the New section button at the top, give it a title and state your concerns/discussion points. Then sign your post (simply type ~~~~ at the end and your signature/time/date will be added) and wait for others to respond. Again, provide reliable sources to support your desired changes. Yes, I know this is likely all confusing, but go for it and others will help you figure it out. Cheers, Vsmith (talk) 01:04, 15 July 2013 (UTC)


This is my proposed correction to the Education paragraph. I have changed his University from Cardiff (where he retired) to University of Buckingham. I have a Letter of Reference in PDF format from the Dean but I am not sure how to upload it. Is there a place where PDF"s can be uploaded so they can be cited?

Wickramasinghe studied at Royal College, Colombo, the University of Ceylon where he graduated in 1960 with a BSc First Class Honours degree in mathematics, and at Trinity College, Cambridge and Jesus College, Cambridge where he obtained his PhD and ScD degrees.[5] He was previously Fellow of Jesus College, Cambridge (1963-1973); Professor and Head of the Department of Applied Mathematics and Astronomy at University College Cardiff (1973-1988); Professor in the School of Mathematics, University of Wales College of Cardiff (1988-1998); and Professor and Director of the Buckingham Centre for Astrobiology, University of Buckingham, UK.

BSmith821 (talk) 01:20, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't really know how to use the pdf of the letter, but surely, if he's been at the Univ. of Buckingham since 1998 (?) there should be some reference available at the university or some publication in that capacity. That he held that position should be verifiable. Vsmith (talk) 02:16, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

I will get this from Chandra or the Dean tomorrow. I have asked Chandra to clearly define his employment relationships since he joined Cardiff University in 1988.

Now another subject. What was the purpose of your edit here: User talk: That anonymous ip user made a series of edits in March 2011 and is quite unlikely to be using the same ip address now. The ip resolves to Comcast Cable. Your last paragraph there is of concern. Again, you must provide WP:reliable sources for your edits, especially on a biography of a living person. Vsmith (talk) 02:16, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

This was my humble attempt to win your trust. My goal was to help you understand who I am , who this academic is, my relationship to him and his mentor Sir Fred Hoyle. over the past 50 years. As you are an American I wanted to give you just a little understanding of why we Canadians and Brits hold the very best Asian academics in such high esteem.

The paragraph I'd like to work on with you first is the one around Creationism v. Darwinism. I plan to argue to you that Chandra is neither a Creationist NOR a Darwinist. In fact he was at some level "used" by the participants in this court case to appear to argue for the side of Creationism. In fact he was there because he wanted to argue the case for open evolution (and debate) of scientific theories. And for the belief that all theories should be allowed on the table for discussion.

The paragraph on the existing WIKIPAGE in no way represents what happened nor his position. It is deeply offensive and inaccurate and needs to be updated to reflect the truth of what happened.

Tomorrow I will present a replacement paragraph which I believe fairly documents this case - if you at WIKI insist you keep some information on this incident on his page. All the best Bill Smith — Preceding unsigned comment added by BSmith821 (talkcontribs) 05:38, 15 July 2013

OK here it is - this is a proposed total replacement for the paragraph called : Participation in the creation-evolution debate

Participation in the creation-evolution debate [edit] Wickramasinghe is a respected UK Buddhist and regularly gives lectures to his community on the role of Science from a Buddhist perspective It is not generally appreciated that Buddhists do not believe in God. The Gautama Buddha. like modern sociologists and psychologists, believed that religious ideas and especially the “god idea” have their origin in fear The Buddha says: “Gripped by fear men go to the sacred mountains, sacred groves, sacred trees and shrines”- As a mathematician and astonomer. Wickramasinghe has an understanding of the various implications of Infinity. <blockquoteOnce again the Universe gives the appearance of being biologically constructed. and on this occasion on a truly vast scale. Once again those who consider such thoughts to be too outlandish to be taken seriously will continue to do

so. While we ourselves shall continue to take the view that those who believe they can match the complexities of the Universe by simple experiments in their laboratories will continue to be disappointed>

This quote has been misunderstood as support for the idea of “god-like” intervention in the seeding of life (on earth, in the galaxy or even in other galaxies). In fact what Wickramasinghe was expressing was two fold : 1. it was a message to his fellow physicists that it was time to bring the disciplines of biology into the world of astrophysics and chemistry 2. it was his message to chemists that it was only though arrogance that man thought he might be able to “create life” in a laboratory. As a Buddhist his own personal belief is that the age of the universe might just be sufficiently ancient that somewhere, just once, the highly improbable conditions for the evolution of an “organism on the edge of LIFE” actually happened. This moment, which Wickramasinghe attributes to the laws of probability, not to "GOD" saw the start of evolution which soon (using Darwin's theories) delivered viruses and nanobacterial. (i.e. for the delivery of an “organism on the edge of LIFE”. He was simply expressing a buddhist’s perspective to Life and its mysterious first seeding. From that moment Panspermia takes over and hypothesizes a promulgation of this “seed of life”.

In the 1981 scientific creationist trial in Arkansas: Supporters of Panspermia, Hoyle and Wickramasinghe, who have a belief that the universe (perhaps multiverse) is ageless, evolved a theory they called Cosmic ancestry. This is quite separate from Panspermia. In his desire to help his "supporters" argument Wickramasinghe agreed to attend and support the "creationists" argument against evolution. Wickramasinghe presented a passionate argument for his own vision which was not "creationism" nor "Darwinism". It was a clear plea than the future should embrace open debate of alternate hypotheses. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 07:11, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Again - references needed, especially for the quote. What reliable source says this? Without references you aren't going to be able to get your desired text into the article. And please log in to your account to edit. Vsmith (talk) 17:20, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Please be patient and yet relentless with me. I am still struggling with the GUI and the process. I am determined to understand and then master the style you require - especially the issue of citations on any contentious issues. Please be assured I am determined to get to be trusted and be a help for you.

When you point out a need for additional citations etc, how long do I have - ie I will never ignore your request but it can take days. I am starting out with quite a complex paragraph on the Creationism v. Darwinism section. So by the time this meets your standards and reflects what I believe is a much more accurate description of this issue, could take 2 weeks. OK? BSmith821 (talk) 19:10, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

I turned the GUI thing off (you can too - click on preferences up at the top of any page when you are logged in) as it seemed rather unhelpful, but thought 'twas just me being set in my ways :)
There is no time limit, however, seems to me best to start with references rather than trying to find references to fit/support what I've written. And it's not me you need to convince — I've only edited that page recently and it wasn't on my watchlist until then. The ones you need to consider are those who have done most of the recent work on the page. That is why you need to discuss your concerns on the article talk page. Vsmith (talk) 21:43, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Restructuring the Whole wiki webpage for Chandra Wickramasinghe[edit]

FYI (for the Wiki editors) I would like your guidance and support for the following plan. Chandra is now in his 70's and has become a communicator and popularizer of astrobiology and physics. He has written many books about physics and related topics; he has made frequent appearances on radio, television, and film; and he writes extensive online blogs and articles. He has just completed a documentary for the Discovery Channel which you will be seeing very soon.

I have discussed with him the importance of WIKIPEDIA. He is however an academic. I do not think he quite realized how important WIKIPEDIA has become. This is the reason he and his associates have avoided trying to "right the wrongs" on the current Chandra_Wickramasinghe page.

Rather than providing small changes to the page everyday over a few weeks as I was planning. I thought it would be better to help him create a personal website which is more focused on this role as communicator. I will then work with him to craft a WIKIPEDIA-LIKE page - which will be a WIKIPage more in the Michio Kaku style. Once this is complete (say 2 weeks from now), I will show it to all the WIKI editors and get support for this new page. I am very much aware that the goal is to make sure everything is accurate and that citations are provided throughout.

Guidance on bio pages is appreciated.

I have finally realized what you meant when you asked me to put the 4 tildes at the end (duh) Sorry for my slow learning. BSmith821 (talk) 19:01, 15 July 2013 (UTC)


Hello Bill, could you please give me a link to the ALMA project to made mention of?

I appreciate your learning curve in Wikipedia and will be happy to help you understand the essential requirement of citations or references, please take a look at the links below to familiarize your self with the requirements stated by Vsmith:

  1. WP:VERIFY - In Wikipedia, verifiability means that people reading and editing the encyclopedia can check that the information comes from a reliable source.
  2. Reliable WP:SOURCES - Base articles on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy.
  3. WP:Neutral point of view - Even when information is cited to reliable sources, you must present it with a neutral point of view (NPOV).
  4. As an advocate of Wickramasinghe‎, you have to pay very close attention to avoid WP:SYNTHESIS - Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources.

If you need additional help from someone else not involved in this article, you can create a new section here in your talk page, pose your question and then paste {{helpme}} and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 15:26, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Here is the best 2 ALMA links : first is a great video. I am talking to Anthony Remijan. Canada is heavily involved and much ALMA management is done from Hertzberg Institute in my city Victoria BC  :-) BSmith821 (talk) 18:50, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Dear BSmith821, I shall continue with my other work in astrobiology-related articles. A word of advice: STRONG passion, personal beliefs, and personal involvement with a subject can interfere with the basic Wikipedia requirement of WP:Neutral point of view. Your edits (and deletions) will be as good as the published references cited, or lack of. Don't take it personally, but the edits from the other editors involved seem to me to be correct. Myself, I think Wickramasinghe's work on extraterrestrial life is quite WP:FRINGE and most of it is not peer reviewed, but here is neutral guidance in your favor: In addition to the links I showed you above, you can review Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons for further guidance. Good luck. BatteryIncluded (talk) 13:20, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
Dear BatteryIncluded point of interest. You write : Wickramasinghe's work on extraterrestrial life is quite WP:FRINGE . It seems to me this is just your opinion. The basic proposition that "Life is A cosmic Phenomenon" is statistically more likely true. ie it is much more likely that life was incubated elsewhere on one of the 144 billions habitable exoplanets than here on earth.
ie the fringe "attitude" is that life was incubated here on earth.

BSmith821 (talk) 06:11, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Hey Bill. I want you to avoid disappointment, as I have seen this kind of fervor in Wikipedia several times before, and it may not end exactly as you wish. I appreciate that you are still getting a hold of the WP:Synthesis and WP:NPV concepts to be used for editing, and in addition, please review WP:FRINGE: "Wikipedia summarizes significant opinions, with representation in proportion to their prominence. A Wikipedia article should not make a fringe theory appear more notable than it is." [...]
Please realize that the overwhelming expert scientific community -while open to panspermia- do not accept the "evidence" so far presented by anyone for extraterrestrial life. There is no way around that, and that is the current status. So, in Wikipedia, a very brief mention of Wickramasinghe's current take could be all that can be presented in this article. The good news, and what I recommend, is that you may be more successful at expanding on Wickramasinghe's ideas on Wickramasinghe's biography page without the limitations of the FRINGE policy. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 01:35, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Copyvio note[edit]

Your recent addition to Panspermia here was little more than a copy/paste of several sentences in the National Geographic newsblurb. Plead read WP:Copyvio and quite simply: don't do that. Vsmith (talk) 20:48, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

When I understood the way even phrases cannot be used from cited articles, I re-wrote the whole paragraph using my own words. I have posted it at the Talk:Panspermia page to get confirmation it is now OK and OK to post. Perhaps you could look and comment.

Thanks for your guidance.

Vsmith User:BatteryIncluded

BSmith821 (talk) 22:24, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the invite[edit]

I would indeed like to meet him, but San Diego is too far away... I did live there back in 1964, for 3 months, place known as MCRD - or should I say survived 3 months there. (MCRD = Marine Corps Recruit Depot) Cheers :) Vsmith (talk) 03:45, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Hypotheses: medical vs scientific[edit]

In your recent edit here to Chandra Wickramasinghe you added the Wikipedia article evidence as a reference re: the difference between medical and scientific hypotheses. Two problems: first - that article doesn't discuss that "difference" (doesn't discuss the phrase "medical evidence" though perhaps it should with solid references); and secondly - Wikipedia article are not WP:reliable sources. You need to find a reliable reference which discusses the difference. Vsmith (talk) 23:01, 20 July 2013 (UTC) Vsmith

Very weird. Yesterday this definitely define the difference between medical and scientific hypotheses. It's just "gone". There is now no use of the word "medical" as you point out. I know you are skilled at checking "history". Can you confirm it was recently changed . Or am I going insane.

BSmith821 (talk) 23:59, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

You can easily check the history of any article - just click the "History" tab at the top of any page. As for the evidence article, I see no change that removed "medical" in the last few weeks, the majority of edits over the last couple months are vandal edits and their reversion. Were you thinking of some other article? Vsmith (talk) 01:07, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
Note, if you place a colon as the first character of your post it causes an indent which helps keep track of what you are replying to. Two colons produce double indent and so on. Not required, but helps for following discussions. And add your sig (the 4 tildes) following the punctuation of your last line. Just helps reading and following talk pages. Vsmith (talk) 01:07, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

talk I have checked the history as you suggested and indeed can find no trail showing any changes. Very strange. I then tried to track down anything (clearly written) on Scientific v. Medical . But was unsuccessful. As you are an expert wikieditor I wonder if you can find anything I can cite. There is no question that "Evidence based" Medical hypotheses have been a fundamental part of medicine for a long time. This is for sure the issue that in publishing a scientific hypothesis in a top medical journal, even though it was just a letter, he or the editor should have explained to the medical readers the difference. I would greatly appreciate your finding me a good simple citation on this.

BSmith821 (talk) 19:46, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Copyvio again[edit]

Stop icon Your addition has been removed, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Wikipedia without permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Wikipedia. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text, or images borrowed from other websites, or printed material without a verifiable license; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. : I have again removed a blatant copy/paste copyright violation which you added to panspermia here. Copied from You can be blocked for that kind of carelessness. Vsmith (talk) 13:09, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

To clarify a bit for you. I know that you did provide the source for the content, however, if you feel the text from the source needs to be used as is, then it should have been presented as a quote - which it was not. Additionally the website used would likely fail WP:RS as it is just a dictionary website and they are a "dime a dozen". Vsmith (talk) 13:48, 21 July 2013 (UTC)


Information icon Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. BatteryIncluded (talk) 05:41, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Really now...[edit]

You recently [1] removed sourced content and replaced it with copy/paste of five abstracts of papers published in a fringe webjournal. That series of edits was blatant pov pushing as well as being problematic re: WP:Copyvio. That kind of editing is unacceptable. Vsmith (talk) 13:34, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Sorry. I did not know that one could not include "abstracts" when summarizing experiment results. I did also "cite" the papers. Note these are peer reviewed. Should I then re-word the abstract conclusion and cite the papers?

BSmith821 (talk) 16:20, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

You did not know ... hmm. Well, did you happen to notice that this is an encyclopedia we're writing -- not an internet forum or chat. Yes, we re-word and cite, we don't do copy-paste. However, that is only part of the problem as you also removed cited material that just happened to be critical of the work covered by those abstracts. Do you really think that was appropriate? Vsmith (talk) 17:14, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

I am redoing this section and just saved the early version. I will for sure leave in alternate views. There are quite a few incorrect statements. I am gathering proof. From now on I will complete the whole proposed section, and then post it in the talk area for your comments. Is that what you would support? BSmith821 (talk) 19:50, 22 July 2013 (UTC)


Answered your query regarding caps on my Talk page. Regards, David J Johnson (talk) 09:08, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Chandra Wickramasinghe[edit]

Please halt and revert your current edits to Chandra Wickramasinghe. I believe they are very strongly WP:NPOV. You have been warned about this a number of times. You are stripping out the material necessary to balance CW's fringe views. If you can't understand this, you shouldn't be editing Wikipedia. Also, Bad Astronomer is hosted at Slate. It is a newsblog, and entirely citable, per WP:BLOGS#Newspaper_and_magazine_blogs.DanHobley (talk) 21:17, 6 August 2013 (UTC) FYI - additional, public comment on that talk page. DanHobley (talk) 21:38, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Can I please ask you once again to restrict your comments to the Panspermia article Talk page, rather than comments on the various contributors Talk pages. Your present method of replying makes it difficult to keep track of developments on the article. Whilst I accept your comment/apology regarding "racism", they were still remarks that should not have been made. You have again spoilt the discussion by referring to "yanks", which can be offensive. If you had bothered to check the user pages, you would have seen that I am from, and still reside in, the United Kingdom and that - at least - one other contributor is also British.

The fact remains that your statement on your User page and your contributions to the Panspermia article seem to be pushing the views of Wickramasinghe, rather than the neutral tone that Wikipedia rightly requires. We certainly do not need yet another Panspermia article, just one that is balanced - which is what BI is attempting to do. I ask you again to please abide by the conventions of the community. Thank you, David J Johnson (talk) 10:29, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

September 2013[edit]

I note that you have started to edit the Panspermia article again. Please be aware that you should not sign your contributions as you have with your latest edits, signing is for the article Talk page. Please also be aware that your contributions should be neutral, have the appropiate references and not be biased to one particular individual. Thank you, David J Johnson (talk) 09:13, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

I've removed an edit re:SETI here as it contained a copyvio from this webpage. You copied a sentence from that page and left out "if it exists". Vsmith (talk) 11:18, 11 September 2013 (UTC)