User talk:Battlecry

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Economic freedom[edit]

Hello-I reverted your addition to the intro of Economic freedom. That article has seen a lot of contention, and so the material in it is (or should be) carefully referenced. So, if you want to add something on the socialist tradition of economic freedom, it should also be carefully referenced. CRETOG8(t/c) 15:42, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Economics sidebar[edit]

Following discussion on the talk pages of the economics project, the sidebar does not have mention of economic systems/ideologies/schools. IMHO, it is too difficult to get consensus on inclusion criteria, as I noted in my edit summary reverting your good-faith edit. You should feel free to create a self-standing template of ideologies/schools/systems, if you'd like; I would encourage you to run such templates by the Economics Project talk page, for feedback.

Best regards,  Kiefer.Wolfowitz 23:43, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Socialism Definition[edit]

Hi. I replied to your comment in the discussion on socialism. The distinction lies in whether we are discussing an "economic system" or an "economic theory." Same thing with how capitalism is treated. As is, the definition is of an economic system, implying that it actually exists. I know Marxist purists want to keep "socialism" as a term for themselves, but this is socialism as a theory described by Marx. Socialism as an economic theory and as term coined by Marx is already noted in the bullet/header of the article and has a link to that article. -Nelbev (talk) 16:20, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Hello Nelbev. I think you are confused about the definition of socialism; first of all, Marx never clearly defined socialism, he only recognized certain parameters that would distinguish socialism from capitalism (any system structured around the accumulation of capital, profit and private property). The fundamental distinction, shared by all socialists save for modern social democrats and some confused proponents of market socialism, is that socialism entails some form of co-operative property structure and production is carried out for use directly. This is by no means a narrow definition, as there is literally hundreds of different institutional configurations socialism can take given these parameters (just as we see many different variations of capitalism under the parameters I noted above). However, if you are looking for a definition of socialism as an economic system that already exists, you would have to go with the neoclassical and Austrian definition of socialism, which defines it primarily as an economic system where economic planning displaces market coordination in the allocation of economic inputs and capital. Under this definition, socialism refers specifically to the economies of the Soviet Union and its satellite states (because no other modern economies have substituted market allocation with planning, although some Western mixed economies complement market allocation with indirect planning). But if you examine the definitions closely, you will notice that the neoclassical / Austrian definition actually refers to a slightly different (and far more specific) concept than the socialist, anarchist and Marxist definition of socialism. Both deserve mention. Battlecry (talk) 22:14, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
I posted a response to your comment in that section. Here is a copy of what I posted: You are confusing socialist politics (a political ideology and movement) with socialist economics (a group of theoretical or hypothetical future economic systems). First off, Sweden and Norway have been governed by social democratic parties and have implemented a range of policies to benefit their constituents. Granted, some believed these reforms would eventually and gradually pave the way toward a socialist system, while democratic socialists tended to believe they could not achieve socialism by themselves but were worth supporting in the interim. Regardless of ones position, these policies are not the same thing as socialism (which has a specific, technical definition); for example, when the Republicans come to power in the United States, their policies do not (and rightly so) define Republicanism. Furthermore, different socialist political movements have different strategies for achieving socialism - had a Leninist Communist or an anarcho-syndicalist party taken power in Sweden, their path to building socialism would have been radically different from the social democrats. Their policies, again, would not define socialism as an economic system. Secondly, you claim that the following line implies Marx's labor theory of value: "accounting is based on physical quantities of resources, some physical magnitude, or a direct measure of labor-time". This is incorrect; there is a list of three different means for quantifying resources and use-values, the last of which is the (mis)application of Marx's concept socially-necessary labor time to a hypothetical socialist economy. While personally I don't agree with that particular position, it is worth mentioning along with the other accounting mechanisms because it is and has been a major proposal for socialist economic systems, particularly by anarchists, cooperative market socialists and syndicalists. Thirdly, you are correct in claiming that the lead clearly defines the property-rights structure of socialism. Again, it lists a range of different possible configurations property rights over the MoP can take under socialism: public (state) ownership, common ownership (free access) and independent cooperatives. All of these configurations are very different from each other, and aside from common ownership, cooperatives and public enterprises do not in any way exclude market coordination. The various proposals for market socialism typically includes a mixture of cooperatives and public enterprises operating in a free-market economy - so your point that the given definition excludes market socialism or market coordination is moot. Fourth, the reason why the given definition does not appear to exist in reality is precisely because socialism has not yet existed on a large scale. All of the world's economies operate under the laws of capital accumulation and seek to generate a financial profit; most are dominated by private enterprises. Unless you are defining socialism as the system that existed in the Soviet Union and other Communist-run states, which is debatable itself, socialism has not existed on a large scale to date. As per capitalism, the United States (and Sweden for that matter) fits the definition of capitalism: the means of production are almost entirely privately-owned, and enterprises compete to generate a profit. I hope this clarifies the issue for you. Battlecry (talk) 22:14, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

August 2011[edit]

Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. Before saving your changes to an article, please provide an edit summary for your edits. Doing so helps everyone understand the intention of your edit (and prevents legitimate edits from being mistaken for vandalism). It is also helpful to users reading the edit history of the page. Thank you. bodnotbod (talk) 09:21, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Battlecry are you using the account User:Rocketman116[edit]

Battlecry the account Rocketman116 like you also supports the technocracy movement. It is acceptable to use multiple accounts provided that they are not used for abusive sock puppetry, however Rocketman116 said "I agree with Battlecry". I will admit that fact that both you and Rocketman116 support this rather obscure and unknown movement does look suspicious to me. Whether or not you are using the account - it may be a coincidence that you and that user both believe in the technocracy movement - I am still going to bring it up with administrators, I am informing you of this so that you are aware.--R-41 (talk) 18:13, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

No, I am not the same user as Rocketman116, and anyone is welcome to compare our IP addresses. I do converse with Rocketman through instant messenger every now and then, and during one of our recent discussions I brought the socialism article controversy to his attention. As for my support for technocracy, there is some misunderstanding here. I am not a proponent of the Technocracy Incorporated movement, but I do support the concept of technocratic governance of the economy in the sense of Fredrich Engels' statement that under socialism a "scientific administration of things would replace the political rule of man over man". When I placed the technocracy movement tag on my profile, I was unaware that the Technocracy movement represented an entirely different (meaning it had its own entirely seperate view on economics than neoclassical and Marxian economics), whole social movement unto itself. -Battlecry (talk) 00:03, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

You have been reported to a sock puppet investigation[edit]

I have looked over your edit history and that of Rocketman116, it seems clear to be that you are the sock master of the sock puppet Rocketman116 that you are using in abusive manner by pretending that Rocketman116 is a different user. You have been reported for sock puppet investigation here: [1].--R-41 (talk) 18:58, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

I look forward to the results of this investigation because I am sure they will prove that your accusations are incorrect. And it is quite amusing when the cranks have to resort to personal attacks to silence their opposition. It should not be surprising that most other socialist users agree with my position on the definition of socialism: collective/social ownership over the means of production and production for use as opposed to regulated private enterprise, welfare-states in capitalism, the Nazi party, or some obscure ethical doctrine. Because we agree on this issue and happen to discuss such issues with each other through a different medium than wikipedia is no basis to claim conspiracy. Furthermore, aside from our agreement on the definition of socialism, Rocketman's edit history shows that he edits entirely different subjects that I have never contributed myself due to insufficient knowledge on my part.-Battlecry (talk) 00:13, 6 April 2012 (UTC)
You accuse me of personal attack without any reason and then call me a "crank", that's hypocricy and could warrant a report for personal attack in itself if you do not rescind the comment - but it does reveal your uncivil behaviour and complete disrespect for me, nonetheless.--R-41 (talk) 14:29, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Deletion discussion about Strike Suit Zero[edit]

Hello, Battlecry,

I wanted to let you know that there's a discussion about whether Strike Suit Zero should be deleted. Your comments are welcome at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Strike Suit Zero .

If you're new to the process, articles for deletion is a group discussion (not a vote!) that usually lasts seven days. If you need it, there is a guide on how to contribute. Last but not least, you are highly encouraged to continue improving the article; just be sure not to remove the tag about the deletion nomination from the top.

Thanks, MJH (talk) 02:55, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

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Social Market Economy[edit]

The article Social Market Economy needs a consensus version [2], [3]. You seem to be knowledgeable on that subject. Please engage if you like. --Pass3456 (talk) 21:09, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Sure, I will take a look at the discussion there and offer my input.-Battlecry 07:20, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Capitalism Template[edit]

I posted a note in the talk section of the Capitalism Template. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Olsonist (talkcontribs) 23:37, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

Barnstar for you[edit]

Original Barnstar Hires.png The Original Barnstar
For your contribution to Wikipedia. Somedifferentstuff (talk) 10:54, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for March 6[edit]

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Article Feedback deployment[edit]

Hey Battlecry; I'm dropping you this note because you've used the article feedback tool in the last month or so. On Thursday and Friday the tool will be down for a major deployment; it should be up by Saturday, failing anything going wrong, and by Monday if something does :). Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 23:24, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Input Social Market Economy[edit]

Hello Battlecry, you have given your input on the discussion of a possible lead. To finally find a consensus version (almost) everyone can agree upon there is a (hopefully) final attempt at Talk:Social_market_economy#working_on_Lead_consensus to make a one for all version. When we have a consensus version we can approach Jayron32 to unblock the article. I whant to invite you to probably make changes on that final version and finally give a thumb up or down. --Pass3456 (talk) 20:21, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

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January 2014[edit]

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Socialism[edit]

Are you going to push for your preferred version or officiate? -- Somedifferentstuff (talk) 21:38, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Our first priority should be to figure out on how to organize the material and prevent the descent into the "moralist" social democracy/social liberal PoV the article is beginning to take on, especially with attempts to define (or rather un-define) socialism as a vague set of moral values in the lead.
On another note, I would request you don't revert back the current order of the page (History after etymology) because there was a general consensus agreeing with that change. What needs to be done is remove redundant and excess material from the history section, so the article is not so bloated and arguably biased. -Battlecry 23:19, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

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May 2014[edit]

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A pie for you![edit]

A very beautiful Nectarine Pie.jpg For your work on socialist articles on Wikipedia Royalmate3 (talk) 13:13, 4 April 2015 (UTC)