User talk:Betty Logan

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A brownie for you![edit]

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Rule of the shorter term[edit]

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For your eyes only...[edit]

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Merry Christmas[edit]

For Your Eyes Only![edit]

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The $750,000 question[edit]

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Watching an interview with Ben Stiller, who says he is no longer a vegan. Not sure if there's a reliable source that backs that up, but it may be worth a look? Cheers - SchroCat (talk) 22:49, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

By heck, these Hollywood stars are fickle aren't they? While obviously I believe you, it is problematic removing people when tons of sources say otherwise. Can you recall the name of the programme by any chance? Betty Logan (talk) 03:57, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
I certainly can: it was last night's The Graham Norton Show on BBC 1 (the first time I've watched the show, and probably the last!). Offered a vegan brownie by Jamie Oliver he fessed up to no longer being one. It'll be on the BBC iPlayer for another week, by which time he may have reverted to the diet! - SchroCat (talk) 05:35, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
Hi Betty,

You recently deleted an edit I made to the list of Vegans for Karyn Calabrese. Not only does the entirety of her page suggest she is vegan, not only is her entire brand built of raw veganism, but the source, which you said did not back up the claim, did in fact claim she was vegan, and has been for over 30 years. What makes you the authority? Mkpr (talk) 21:48, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

It is irrelevant what her Wikipedia page says since anyone can edit it. To add her to the vegan list you must provide a reputable source that explicitly states she is a vegan. The source you added does not back up the claim she is vegan, since it states "A vegetarian for decades, Calabrese is far from inflexible on the matter" i.e. the source backs up the claim she is vegetarian, not vegan, which is a different branch of vegetarianism. Betty Logan (talk) 22:10, 18 March 2014 (UTC)


This is a neutral request for comment as a participant in a past discussion regarding a similar topic at Talk:The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug#Critical reaction and WEIGHT. Thank you.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 15:38, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

An RfC that you may be interested in...[edit]

As one of the previous contributors to {{Infobox film}} or as one of the commenters on it's talk page, I would like to inform you that there has been a RfC started on the talk page as to implementation of previously deprecated parameters. Your comments and thoughts on the matter would be welcomed. Happy editing!

This message was sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of {{U|Technical 13}} (tec) 18:26, 8 March 2014 (UTC)


Hi Betty. Remind me what the problem was stopping Ben Hur from being promoted to GA was? The lead clearly needs expansion but if you could highlight what needs doing I might give it a go in a few weeks. It looks pretty good on the surface. Can you also fill me in on the wiki background to it, I was told some time ago it was a contentious article our something.♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:42, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

I don't think it's particularly contentious. I made some observations a couple of years ago at Talk:Ben-Hur (1959 film)/GA1 which is by no means exhaustive, but also some of which have since been rectified. The biggest problem at the time was really the structure of the article; it was a bit unwieldy but I sorted that out myself. Betty Logan (talk) 22:42, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
It surely looks comprehensive enough for GA! Needs mostly minor technical work and expansion of the lead. I should be able to get it up to GA. I've put the text in references into notes and have begun adidng the isbn and links to the books. One problem though is that some of them are reprints in google books, the Buford source for instance is 2009 in books and 2000 in your article. If I leave the reprints any chance you could locate the original isbn numbers of the books used? Or was it Tim1965 who added them? Should I ask him? I think it really helps for verification purposes that's all.♦ Dr. Blofeld 20:28, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
I never added any actual content to the article. I just restructured it slightly to make it more readable because it was written more like an essay at the time. That basically just involved going through and adding suitable shapter headings. The coverage is excellent though, more FA standard than GA. ISBN numbers are useful for verification but not required (if you have the author, title, year and edition) so it's not a big deal if we're missing a few. Betty Logan (talk) 09:20, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

Space Jam[edit]

Requested protection for article.

Jdogno5 (talk) 00:13, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

"The administrator who reviews this request should be made aware of this 3RR report filed against User:Jdogno5. I don't recommend protecting the article since the disruption involves a single editor and can be resolved at ANI.": I did that to deal with the matter in a constructive way. You said that was something I could do that was considered alright. So a single editor doesn't matter?!

Jdogno5 (talk) 00:24, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Devil in popular culture[edit]

What was wrong with what I stated?

Jdogno5 (talk) 03:33, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Let It Be[edit]

Are you aware that you just wheel warred by moving the page? Bovine moved the page earlier, but Anthony Appleyard undid it after I contested it. Thus, by moving it again you've wheel warred. I hope you undo it before I seek redress elsewhere. Hot Stop talk-contribs 23:12, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

I haven't a clue who you are or what your involvement is, and saw no contesting by you at the move discussion; however what I do see in the article history is someone moving an article to another title and listing it as "uncontroversial" when it directly violates the disambiguation guideline at WP:NCF. If you wish to move an article to a title that does not comply with the naming guidelines then I recommend you start a discussion on the talk page. Betty Logan (talk) 23:23, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
Umm, it had been at plain old Let It Be (film) for many years before BB moved it today. If you can't get that basic fact straight, maybe you should reconsider. Hot Stop talk-contribs 23:58, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
I am a bit confused. What exactly is the issue? Do you disagree that the page move does not comply with WP:NCF which states Do not use partial disambiguation such as Titanic (film) when more than one film needs to be disambiguated, or are you just objecting to me closing the discussion? Article renaming doesn't have to be discussed if it's a straightforward matter. I will re-open the discussion if you wish but it is unnecessary in this case. Betty Logan (talk) 00:19, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Space Jam editor[edit]

Thank you for your continued watch of the page and handling with that user. I don't know if I should be saddened or dumbfounded by the fact that some people just don't get it. In all the reverts and directing them to the talk, they just didn't understand what had to be done to work it out. Anyways, thanks for trying to make it work, even though it may have been extremely difficult, had the user cooperated, given the amount of WP:OR in the content they added. Regards, - Favre1fan93 (talk) 05:07, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Pretty much everyone starts out a poor editor on Wikipedia. Wikipedia has rules coming out of its ass so novice editors are going to often get things wrong. I don't mind that, but presented with the right way and the wrong way then the editor has to make that choice themselves. Ultimately Jogno made the wrong decision and has to face the consequences. Hopefully, if he returns either by convincing an admin to unblock him or getting an new id he will try a bit harder to learn the ropes. Betty Logan (talk) 05:52, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Missing white woman syndrome[edit]

I have responded on the talk page. Thanks for notifying me. SQGibbon (talk) 18:50, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

No result of discussion[edit]

Your reverting of my Gone with the Wind edit[edit]

I'm a bit perplexed by it. You said Leigh receives second billing in the film. Seeing as you have no reason to make that up, I'm assuming you're correct. However, screen billing isn't used unless the poster doesn't list actors, according to Template:Infobox film. Why are you skipping the first part of the "cast list" policy? Corvoe (speak to me) 03:16, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

I have left a comprehensive response at the article talk page. On reflection I agree that it is probably better to leave out the uncredited names, but I have also addressed other aspects of your edit. Betty Logan (talk) 03:20, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

No more discussion[edit]

Since nobody has cared to discuss about the thing about the box office gross of re-released films I think there's no use in further taking up the matter since it seems apparently the community is not interested in it and still picking up despite will be foolish. But still even though I had a few complains with you over the issue you still discussed the issue and showed cooperation. Thank you. KahnJohn27 (talk) 08:33, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

I am sorry you didn't get the level of discussion you wanted. However you should be commended for at least pursuing a discourse. Betty Logan (talk) 21:24, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. KahnJohn27 (talk) 09:10, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Snooker season 2014/2015[edit]

It would be nice if you could take a look at Snooker season 2014/2015. IPs are removing sourced information from the article, and I can't do against it for a while. Armbrust The Homunculus 22:42, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

I've replied at the talk page. I've added the article to my watchlist so I'll intervene if the reverting starts up again. Betty Logan (talk) 09:28, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

New Hollywood[edit]

I propose that we add the director's name with each movie. This helps the reader to see the role played by notable directors. What are your views on this proposal. I think it adds to the article, as it helps the reader connect movies with the notable directors.OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 14:55, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't oppose it in principle since there is some value in it, but I think if you want to add more information then it needs to be a bit more stuctured, like a title/director/year three column table. You could make it sortable and then readers can sort it by director or year. Betty Logan (talk) 15:03, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Warnings left for an IP user[edit]

I came across your AIV report for User talk: I went ahead and blocked the IP again, but I wanted to comment about the warnings you left. When leaving warnings regarding vandalism, there really isn't much point to leaving more than one warning within a 1-2 minute period, nor much point to leaving multiple warnings at the same warning level. It just makes the page difficult to read, and I doubt it makes the IP any more likely to pay attention to the message. —Darkwind (talk) 16:57, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

I am sorry if I made it more difficult for you. I figured out quite a while ago that the IP wouldn't heed any warnings but I was more concerned about leaving an accurate record for the admin examining the case. If it re-occurs I will just leave a list of articles on his talk page in future. Betty Logan (talk) 17:26, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Snooker sources[edit]

As we established that Cuetracker, Snooker info et al are (a) unsuitable as sources and (b) differ even from each other, is there something that we should do regarding all the snooker pages (players in particular) which use these sources? The Ronnie O'Sullivan page for example is classed as a 'good article' yet contains multiple refs to Cuetracker. I don't mind the work but am I right to go through replacing inaccurate yet precise information with maybe less precise but verifiable stuff? Btljs (talk) 07:42, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

There is always a chance that an alternative source can be found so we shouldn't change information unless it is absolutely necessary. It might be a good idea to tag all occurrences of CueTracker with {{Better source}} and leave it a month so that editors will be made aware of the issue and have some time to find another source. Betty Logan (talk) 15:08, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

List of snooker player nicknames[edit]

Could you take a look at the article. An user is insisting for changing Steve Davis' nickname from "Interesting" to "Steve "Interesting" Davis". Thanks. Armbrust The Homunculus 08:57, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

I've left a comment at the talk page, Armbrust. Betty Logan (talk) 16:12, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for copying me in, Betty. I am presently very busy at the moment with some teaching/lecturing, but I appreciate your intercession. I may come back to you on this later, though. I will try to put something in on the talk page. FClef (talk) 18:57, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Reverting Ten Commandments related edits[edit]


Could you give me a little insight into reverting my Ten Commandment changes? For instance, I thought putting the Ten Commandments template on theCatholic doctrine regarding the Ten Commandments article aids in reader navigation. And the intent of placing Homer vs. Lisa and the 8th Commandment in Ten Commandments category groups that article with other modern interpretations. What do you think is the best use of the Ten Commandments template and category? Thanks! RevelationDirect (talk) 14:00, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Basically navboxes should be bidirectional i.e. a navbox should only be added to an article if that article is included (or added) to the navbox. As WP:BIDIRECTIONAL states Every article that transcludes a given navbox should normally also be included as a link in the navbox so that the navigation is bidirectional. For instance, if you wish to add the {{Ten Commandments}} navbox to the The Ten Commandments (1956 film) you ideally need to create a media section in the navbox and add the article to the navbox. The logic behind this is to group links together so readers can navigate between them. For example, if we assume that a reader is interested in the 1956 film then it is reasonable to assume that they will be interested in other Decalogue media (such as the 1923 film or the 2007 film etc); however, by just adding the navbox to the articles without adding the articles to the navbox doesn't actually help the reader navigate between the media which defeats the purpose. Your underlying idea is a sound one, it just needs to be approached right. If you need technical assistance at all then I am happy to help with that. Betty Logan (talk) 15:56, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
Oh, okay. Your concern is more precedural/navigational rather than about the underlying topic. I'm going to make another pass at this based on your input. If you have any further concerns, just drop a note on my talk page so we don't inadvertantly engage in an edit war. Thanks again. RevelationDirect (talk) 02:01, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Peace Barnstar Hires.png The Barnstar of Diplomacy
Thank you for watching the anti-fur video, removing another non-vegan from the list of vegans, and leaving a comprehensive edit summary. Edwardx (talk) 17:06, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 8[edit]

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The Ten Commandments Accolades section[edit]

Hi. I have modified the accolades section in the article from a wikitable into paragraphs because I have added more information which can't be properly displayed in a wikitable. Besides, the Wikipedia Manual of Style states that a film's awards can be also written in prose.--V. Villalvaso 00:42, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:$1Billion Films[edit]

Ambox warning pn.svgTemplate:$1Billion Films has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page.

(As you have made a few edits to this template, I thought you may want to comment.)

--Fru1tbat (talk) 18:22, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Question of curiosity.[edit]

I'm new here and while looking through the FAQ section of Wikipedia, I found this question in the section relating to blocks:

"Q If I made an account on Wikipedia on one IP address but opened it on another, would that create problems? E.g. If I attempted to open my account on an IP address that had been completely blocked (no editing, no creating new accounts e.t.c.) but I haven't received a block for anything that I have done under my username, will I be blocked on that IP address? If so, is there a way to appeal it?":

I am curious myself about what is being asked here. Just saying, If I attempted to open my account on an IP address that had been completely blocked (no editing, no creating new accounts e.t.c) without knowing so but I haven't received a block for anything that I have done under my username, will I be blocked on that IP address? If so, is there a way to appeal it?

Michael Demiurgos (talk) 07:01, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Sock Puppetry[edit]

I understand I am being accused of sock puppetry.

Where do I go to respond to that? On the talk page or project page for Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Jdogno5?

Michael Demiurgos (talk) 12:08, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

What is happening now? Just trying to understand what is going on.

Michael Demiurgos (talk) 00:41, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Is that a joke? Did Jdogno5 or I do anything that would be considered "terrorism"? Guantanomo Bay? For trying to express your opinion on the internet? Doesn't that go against the 1st amendment of the USA constitution?

Michael Demiurgos (talk) 13:44, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

I removed Betty Logan's previous comment because it was inappropriate and could have been interpreted as a legal threat. Please don't make such comments on Wikipedia. -BZTMPS · (talk? contribs?) 13:48, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
Quite right: no sense of humour needed on Wiki. We're all far too serious and important for that sort of thing. (Legal threat? What absolute nonsense!) - SchroCat (talk) 13:52, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
Obviously this user didn't take it as a joke! BZTMPS · (talk? contribs?) 13:56, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
This user is the subject of a sockpuppet investigation who is one posting away (on Talk:Space Jam) from being labelled a troll. - SchroCat (talk) 14:05, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for filing the edit warring report for this editor BL. I also noticed your edits updating the SPI report. I suspect you noticed that it has gone stale. It might be because "Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry" stated that they would look into it further four days ago and has only made one edit to WikiP since. Do you think a post at ANI will get things moving again? Best regards. MarnetteD | Talk 03:24, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
I have left a note at User:Chase me ladies, I'm the Cavalry's talk page asking him to conclude the check. A the time I made the report the editor had only made a handful of edits and there was nothing conclusive so I think he just left it running to collate bit more evidence. Michael Demiurgos is currently blocked so we can probably pick it up after the weekend. Betty Logan (talk) 13:25, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Thanks for the update and all your work in this situation. MarnetteD | Talk 18:00, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

Devil in popular culture[edit]

How was the last revision I created for Devil in popular culture a synthesis of published materials when both of those issues of "Venus" (Marvel Comics) showed that Loki (Marvel Comics) has a demonic nature to his being?

Michael Demiurgos (talk) 13:44, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

It is SYNTHESIS because having what you interpret as a "demonic nature" is not the same as veriably being a demon. If you want to add claims, you need secondary sources that explicitly make the claim. Betty Logan (talk) 15:35, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

"Veriably": What does that mean? Forgive me if I sound like an idiot for asking.

Michael Demiurgos (talk) 00:54, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

I suggest you read WP:Verifiability, WP:Reliable sources and WP:Original research. If you can't get to grips with these policies perhaps you should find another hobby. If you have questions about those polcies ask on the talk pages or at WP:HELPDESK. Betty Logan (talk) 12:40, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Angela Cartwright edits[edit]

If I made a mistake, I sincerely apologize. I was just trying to make the sentence grammatically correct. As it is, it equates to: "Danny Thomas, as a little girl of the 1950s, starting, etc., signed Cartwright to play his daughter...." In other words, the introductory clauses should modify her (Cartwright), not Danny Thomas. But I could be wrong in this, and if so, I apologize. Also, I apologize for not signing my edits. Grammarspellchecker (talk) 02:47, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Could you link to my edit please. The edit history at Angela Cartwright says I have never edited the article. Betty Logan (talk) 03:49, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Cult film Animation section[edit]

Hello, I was wondering what was wrong with a sentence I added to the end of the Cult film Animation section on the movie The Thief and the Cobbler.

Thank you in advance, Elixe54 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elixe54 (talkcontribs) 23:08, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

As I explained to you in the edit summary, if you are going to describe something as a "cult film" then you must provide a source that discusses it explicitly in those terms. Betty Logan (talk) 00:10, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 29[edit]

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How do you feel about this wording:

--Mark Miller (talk) 23:21, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

That seems fine. I just think it is important to make the wording explicit. Betty Logan (talk) 23:27, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
Agreed.--Mark Miller (talk) 23:30, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

FLC follow up[edit]

Hi. Hope you're well. Thanks for making comments on our FLC (Link to article)(Link to comments), they were really useful. We have made all the changes except changing the infobox colour but Corvoe has explained why that hasn't been done as of yet. I was wondering if you were satisfied with changes we have made or whether you feel more needs to be done on the FLC to garner your support which we are very open to. Cowlibob (talk) 14:44, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

I have left my "stamp of approval". It's a good list, I think it will pass. Betty Logan (talk) 16:18, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for your support! It's much appreciated. Cowlibob (talk) 18:30, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Just wanted to say thanks[edit]

for multiple undoings of vandalism on Motion Picture Association of America film rating system. It's not easy to put up with stuff like that, so again, thanks. (talk) 17:09, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

The editor is heading for a block the way he is going. Unfortunately articles like that one with "naughty" words will always attract vandalism. Betty Logan (talk) 05:51, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

Info share[edit]

Hi Betty, I was looking into UK-based IP vandal who keeps adding weird "who died in 1988 last year"-type content. I first spotted them at All Dogs Go to Heaven. While looking into their antics, I saw this edit which was followed by your reversion and comment "Continued disruption by IP hopper". Was curious if you had any more info about them (have they been doing this for a long time? Do they have any other editing behaviors that would help identify them better? etc.) So far I've seen three IPs,,, and They are all static IPs, and they geolocate either to the city of Cannock in England, or Stafford England. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 17:04, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Unfortunately I was not aware of the disruptive behavior on a wider scale, just at the Transformer article. Obviously due to the IP hopping it is impossible to block the editor so all that can be done is to watch the articles they regularly hit and then revert it when it happens. Betty Logan (talk) 14:49, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Ally Burguieres[edit]

Just a note to tell you that an article you PRODed and was deleted by me, has been restored as a "contested PROD" (User_talk:Ronhjones#Artist_Page). I can only advise that WP:AfD is now the only way to delete.  Ronhjones  (Talk) 21:36, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

WP Film in the Signpost[edit]

The WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Film for a Signpost article. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Just add your response below each question and feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Multiple editors will have an opportunity to respond to the interview questions, so be sure to sign your answers. If you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, please share this with them. Have a great day. –Mabeenot (talk) 22:52, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Re Rocky[edit]

With sincere due respect, here is another citation that may be more agreeable to you:

Actually, Medavoy says what sold him on Rocky was an agreement to cross the profits of the film with those of the studio's guaranteed hit New York, New York. By doing this, Medavoy says the profits from Martin Scorsese's musical would, in effect, pay for the boxing dud. "Of course," cracks Medavoy, "Rocky wound up paying for whatever losses we had on New York, New York," which tanked.[1]
  1. ^ Nashawaty, Chris (2002-02-19). "EW: The Right Hook: How Rocky Nabbed Best Picture". Entertainment Weekly. 

For what it's worth, the New York, New York page has had that citation to bolster the same point for a while.

Actually, I find it euphemistically amusing that several specious "citation needed" paragraphs are left in there whilst mine was speedily deleted. A "citation needed" would've sufficed, in my very humble opinion. :-D –TashTish (talk)

That source is fine, but this could have been avoided if you hadn't attributed the claim to a source that did not back it up. Your edit was reverted not because it was unsourced but because I doubted its authenticity. Betty Logan (talk) 06:00, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
Fair enough, but I still fail to see how unsourced anecdotes are allowed to remain, such as Talia Shire's casting being insisted upon by the producers or which body parts were injured during filming, some merely with [citation needed] tags, while others that are actually sourced are reverted. Methinks, again humbly, that completely unsourced conjectures should be reverted, while sourced ones—despite their suspicious validity—be given more benefit of the doubt. Anyway, just a random thought. –TashTish (talk)
The notification system notified you of my revert and prompted you into correcting your edit, which is the best outcome for the article. I would not take issue if someone reverted me along similar lines. I don't think unsourced content should be allowed to slide—I am actually a stickler for good sourcing—but if I cull the information from the article manually then it will very likely be permanent, since the editors who contributed it will not be notified like you were. If someone decides to take this article on and develop it then obviously the unsourced claims will have to be removed. Betty Logan (talk) 06:45, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
All true. Thanks 4 ur answers. –TashTish (talk)

List of world number-one snooker players[edit]

Hi Betty! Could you take a look at List of world number-one snooker players? Nergaal is insisting to day measurements for the duration of the #1 status in violation of WP:OR. Thanks. Armbrust The Homunculus 17:28, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Since there is no link showing a table of #1's in history then the list is not OR. But if a reader wants to compare how long Higgins has been #1 versus O'Sullivan then it is OR. Nice logic. Nergaal (talk) 17:34, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
Or the Per frequency part is totally not OR by those standards. Nergaal (talk) 17:39, 26 June 2014 (UTC)
I have started a discussion at Talk:List of world number-one snooker players#The addition of "Days" to the world number 1 calendar. Betty Logan (talk) 20:07, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

"English" vs. "British"[edit]

I noticed you reverted my edit on the Naomi Watts page. This is not new and has long been a common issue on Wikipedia. English people are labeled "British" while people from Scotland and Wales are called "Scottish" and "Welsh". This is extremely unfair treating the English so differently. A similar thing has recently happened on the Andy Serkis page. I will not change until discussed as I wish to be reasonable. Please respond. Thank You WARNER one --9999 (talk) 19:08, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

You're actually claiming this to be discrimination against the English when in fact it is the English who have for centuries now discriminated against other parts of the British Isles? That's like saying feminism is discrimination against men. veganfishcake (talk) 00:00, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
I actually agree with your reasons here i.e. Sean Connery is Scottish, Michael Caine is English etc, but the situation with Naomi Watts is unsual. She has a British passport but doesn't solely identify as "English". I have left more detailed comments at the Naomi Watts talk page and I also urge you to reader her comments fully in the source too. Betty Logan (talk) 19:31, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Reference Errors on 3 July[edit]

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Changes Undone to Movie Articles[edit]

The modifying that I did that mentioned that "No Children 17 and Under Admitted" was undone on two articles. Can you please explain that? Angela Maureen (talk) 20:12, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Maybe the question should be why did you change it? The source used in the articles says "No One 17 and Under Admitted". Your edit made the wording inaccurate. Betty Logan (talk) 20:16, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
The reason for modification is many MPAA officials and audience members interpret the rating as "No Children 17 and Under Admitted". Also, the C in NC-17 means "Children". NC-17 was changed to its current meaning somewhere around the mid 1990s. Angela Maureen (talk) 20:56, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Factual accuracy is the primary consideration here and the MPAA currently uses the "No One" nomenclature. The MPAA obviously have their reasons for altering the wording. If there is some historical context for altering the wording then that would be an interesting addition to the article, but it's not our place to re-interpret the MPAA certificate for them. Betty Logan (talk) 21:16, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Definition of veganism.[edit]

By all accounts there has never ever been a definition of veganism that includes honey or bees products. Every definition of veganism that has ever existed, including on Wikipedia, means to avoid the use and consumption of animals products. Honey is an animal product is it not? Or do you count bees as a plant?


I previously used to be WARNER one and have since reincarnated myself to be more friendly, useful, cooperative, less nationalistic and all together a better editor. I have identified you as one of the editors that I have wronged in the past which is why I urge you not to consider my previous actions in the future as I am completely different. I would like to be friends so we can hopefully collaborate in the future. If you understandably still don't want to colabarte and/or see my new side then that is 100% fine. Just please leave me a note here so I know for the future. THANKYOU! --Warner REBORN (talk) 17:23, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

It's good that you have decided to turn over a new leaf. However, if you look at some of our interactions (such as on the Avatar article) I didn't actually oppose all of your conclusions, just your methods. I am sure we will get along fine provided you follow the WP:BRD cycle. Betty Logan (talk) 13:43, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Motion Picture Rating System[edit]

I've reverted your latest version. Robert McClenon (talk) 04:17, 15 July 2014 (UTC)


On the one hand, your post to WP:AN was a reasonable approach to the table having been broken. On the other hand, it was reasonable for another reason than you expected. There was very little possibility that you would be given permission to breach 3RR, but, since WP:AN is watchlisted heavily, you would be likely to get another editor to make the change for you, since 3RR doesn't apply to other editors. If the change had been simple vandalism, 3RR would not apply, but it appears that it wasn't vandalism, but a good-faith error by the other editor, compounded by making improper changes to the table. If the other editor resumes editing the table when coming off the block, please go back to WP:ANEW and request a longer block. Thank you. Robert McClenon (talk) 14:42, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Will you please stop changing the ratings? you only signed up to make ratings wrong. The NC-17 means adults only, don't believe me? see Blue is the warmest color trailer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:10, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

FLC review request[edit]

Hi. Hope you're well. Corvoe and I nominated Gravity's accolades page for featured list a couple of weeks ago. I was wondering if you had some time to review it. It would be really helpful. Link to the article [1] and the FLC [2]. Cowlibob (talk) 11:21, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

I will look over this for you this weekend. I took a glance and it looks fine so I doubt there are any major issues. Betty Logan (talk) 07:51, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
I just saw this. Thanks for looking at it! Cowlibob (talk) 22:31, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Oh no...[edit]

hmmm.... here we No again, doctor? - SchroCat (talk) 15:43, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

I've reverted this. I recall the ruling at Commons being explicitly clear that we could only host the file here. Betty Logan (talk) 17:21, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

Betty Logan, hey thanks for semi-protecting the motion picture rating system, there were many vandalism which violates the 3RR code. and the PG does not have an age. Its for all ages with parental guidance. but any who thanks for sorting it out later man BasicallyIdowrk — Preceding unsigned comment added by BasicallyIdowrk (talkcontribs) 11:51, 6 August 2014 (UTC)


The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Please restrict messages on this talk page to questions and comments about editing.

Hey, I would like to know why you thought it was relevant to mention that I live about 50 miles away from the football club I support when you reported me? I used to live near the football club and I moved away from the area, what's that got to do with anything I have been doing on Wikipedia? veganfishcake (talk) 18:11, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

How do you mean? I'm pretty sure you weren't blocked for supporting a football team; in fact your extended block was due to a report at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Veganfishcake/Archive. Anyway, I replaced the image at the veganis article and changed the caption so hopefully this solution is acceptable to you. If it is not then please take the issue up at the talk page. Betty Logan (talk) 19:41, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
No, but when you reported me you made a point (see about me support a football club about 50 miles away from where I live, as if it was relevant to the decision to block me or not. I'll quote what you wrote: "The editor supports Fleetwood F.C. (a UK football club) on his user page while the IP operates out of Longsight UK, with Fleetwood and Longsight situated just 50 miles apart.". I would just like clarification as to why you wrote that. I'll contribute on the talk page as I was not given a chance to do so over the last few days before you made the decision to change the picture. veganfishcake (talk) 22:48, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi, can I please get an answer to this? Thank you veganfishcake (talk) 11:22, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Sound of Music[edit]

Hello, Ms Betty Logan,

I noticed you removed my edit of the chapter on the film Sound of Music and historical facts. I guess it must be because I did not log in properly. Will do so next time. I live and work in Salzburg, just 100 metres away from Nonnberg Abbey. The wikipedia entry on the musical and the film 'Sound of Music' is naïvely written and makes little mention on the austrian/german language films which inspired Rogers and Hammerstein to write the musical to start with: the most seen films to date in austrian history are the films about Maria von Trapps life in 1956 and 1958. But today, Salzburg gets hundreds of thousands of visitors every year from around the world who would like to see where the Hollywood musical was filmed. The Hollywood film gets the blame for telling the story incorrect, though. I do not see why my edit to the article was wrong? Please explain (this is Wikipedia). Myself, I enjoy both the austrian films (there were two!) and the musical, but it was the austrian film which took liberties from the actual story: the Hollywood film just copied the austrian one. I don't think my additions did any harm or told a wrong story: I stand to be corrected if so -but please explain first. John, Salzburg, Austria — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 08:01, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

List of highest-grossing films[edit]

Please explain to me:

1. What sources based box office franchises James Bond, Superman, Star Trek? Where did the box office $190400000, $80200000 and $36700000 for Superman II, III, IV? Or James Bond franchise? Unless Boxoffice and The Numbers are not reliable sources? I did this changes to these sources. I don't understand.

2. Why Batman franchise have Catwoman?

Thanks, KIRILL1995 (talk) 17:49, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

All the sources used are all listed at the ended of the article in "Franchise sources". Box Office Mojo and The Numbers are fine as a rule, but sometimes we use other sources because i) they are incomplete ii) in rare cases better sources (such as with older films) are available. As for the reasons for each franchise here they are:
  1. The Superman figures come "George Lucas' Blockbusting" written by Alex Ben Block because neither Box Office Mojo or The Numbers list worldwide figures. If you actually look at those sites (as opposed to the Wikipedia articles) you will see they only list the American grosses which means they are missing global data. BOM only has US data for Superman 2-4 so that is why we use the book for this franchise. Replacing the current numbers with those from BOM means we would only have domestic totals in some cases.
  2. All the Star Trek figures come from The Numbers site to be consistent, since Box Office Mojo does not list worldwide grosses for all the films. Some of Box Office Mojo's data differs slightly by a million here or a million there, but in the absence of not knowing which source is more accurate then it's probably better to use the same source for all the data.
  3. The older James Bond figures (up to Dalton) come from the George Lucas book since Box Office Mojo does not have them for the older films. The later figures (from Brosnan onwards) uses Box Office Mojo. We used to use The Numbers for the James Bond films but we discovered it was inconsistent with many books about the James Bond films, so the James Bond project decided to use the book instead. You can fully read that discussion at User_talk:SchroCat/Archive_4#James_Bond_grosses. You can see a comparison of all the different figures for the Bond films at User:Betty_Logan/Sandbox#Bond_grosses.
  4. As for Catwoman, it is included because it is part of the Batman franchise even though Batman himself does not appear in the film. It is a spin-off from Batman Returns (Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman appears in a photograph) so exists in the same continuity. As a rule we include all spin-offs (see Supergirl in the Superman franchise, Puss-in-Boots in the Shrek franchise, The Scorpion King in the The Mummy franchise, The Clone Wars in the Star Wars franchise, and the upcoming Fantastic Beasts in the Harry Potter franchise).
I hope this helps to explain why we use certain sources over the others. Betty Logan (talk) 23:49, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

A tip[edit]

I've got the source for the new Frozen numbers now, but it's good Wiki-etiquette to leave a message on someone's talk page rather than a revert, which is considered a harsh action only to be done only when necessary. When in doubt, talking is much preferable. Dralwik|Have a Chat 02:14, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

... for you insight and clarity. Face-smile.svg. Schmidt, Michael Q. 10:04, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

The Rocky Horror Picture Show[edit]

(Betty, in the past you have been good at taking a neutral look at disputes on this article so I am copying the same message I posted to the Film project in hopes that your good sense can help this before it gets out of hand)

An editor has pointed out an inconsistency in the soundtrack listings of the film in our articles. There is also an inconsistency in the listing in the primary source that seems to be a blatant mislabeling. How should we proceed with any changes? We need to form a consensus one way of another.--Mark Miller (talk) 00:05, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Proposed move[edit]

Hi Betty, I suspect this may already have come across your radar, but in case it hasn't, this may be of interest for you. - SchroCat (talk) 10:25, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

I hadn't noticed it actually (it's on my watchlist but an archive bot is the last edt) but I've added my comments. I don't think there is much danger at this stage. Betty Logan (talk) 08:28, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Wizard of Oz

The national release date for The Wizard of Oz was August 25th.. You are putting the date for one of it's three minor release dates. You also did not put a reference and removed my reference when you reverted my edit — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lordjoshua420 (talkcontribs) 20:47, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

inre Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Star Trek: Axanar[edit]

As the article on Star Trek: Axanar can be seen as TOO SOON for its own article, I gave the situation some thought, some research, and created one on Prelude to Axanar in my draftspace. As Prelude has coverage it can be seen to meet WP:NF and, as it has been released we have no worries about WP:NFF. That said, I invite you to visit and consider the section at Prelude to Axanar#Planned feature film as a suitable redirect target for the much smaller,less comprehensive, and poorly sourced Star Trek: Axanar when I move my draft to article space. What'cha say? Schmidt, Michael Q. 09:31, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

I will fully support that solution, Michael! Good work. Betty Logan (talk) 14:29, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
After a few final tweaks, the draft has now been moved to Prelude to Axanar. Have a great day. Face-smile.svg Schmidt, Michael Q. 14:50, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Gone With The Wind[edit]

Why did you revert my "dubious" marker? The existing text is inaccurate, as watching the opening of the movie will demonstrate. One minute into the opening of the film, as the opening credits appear on the screen, the names of the four principal actors are shown, so, contrary to what the text of the article, they do receive top billing, and there is nothing unusual. The items referred to in the text occur later on in the opening. I attempted to insert a You Tube video that shows the opening credits, but Wikipedia does not permit the insertion of You Tube videos.John Paul Parks (talk) 01:10, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

I reverted you because you didn't provide any explanation for the tag—either in the edit summary or on the talk page as you said you had. You can watch the opening credits at [3], which includes the billing credits and cast lists. Betty Logan (talk) 01:19, 1 September 2014 (UTC) EDIT: I don't quite understand what you saying, because the article does say that the principals get top-billing. Betty Logan (talk) 01:23, 1 September 2014 (UTC)