User talk:Bkonrad/Archive 21

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willie brown

besides being his 'actual name', it really doesn't make sense to have a dis-ambiguated name for the article. particuarly since each article is piped through to the willie brown name anyway. --emerson7 | Talk 03:23, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but the question is whether anyone actually refers to him as "Willie Lewis Brown, Jr." -- Use Common Names seems to prefer titling the articles of well-known people by the names they are most commonly known by. In this case, some form of disambiguation is necessary, and I'd argue that a parenthetical "(politician)" is less confusing than using a name that almost no one ever uses. olderwiser 03:28, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
yes, but why would one name an article using "(politician)" when it's completely unnecessary. ...and yes, he is 'well known' as willie lewis Brown, jr. grant...'better known' as wb, but using the dab is doesn't make alotta sense when the alternative is so stark. --emerson7 | Talk 03:42, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
just a sample san franciso archive --emerson7 | Talk 03:50, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
See my comments at Talk:Willie Brown (politician)#Willie Lewis Brown, Jr.. olderwiser 11:42, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Notability of Henry Cabot Lodge, Sr.

A tag has been placed on Henry Cabot Lodge, Sr., requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done because the article appears to be about a person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not assert the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think that you can assert the notability of the subject, you may contest the deletion. To do this, add {{hangon}} on the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag) and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm the subject's notability under Wikipedia guidelines.

For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Eddie 23:23, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Good grief--did you even bother to look at the article history before tagging it? It had been a redirect to Henry Cabot Lodge until an anon turned it into a stub. At least you had the courtesy to solicit opinions before deleting it. olderwiser 01:55, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Please forgive my mistake. This has never happened to me before. I am truly sorry. Yours sincerely, Eddie 03:24, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your suggestion. I will certainly follow it. Again, please forgive my mistake. Happy editing! Yours sincerely, Eddie 04:55, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

List of municipalities in Michigan (by population)

For the article that I made List of municipalities in Michigan (by population), I see that you've added improvements, but the estimates for 2006 have been out for a good week or two, now. I need you to go back and update the estimates to match the 2006 estimates. Here is the excel document showing all cities, villages, and townships: —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Criticalthinker (talkcontribs). July 13, 2007 (UNC)

I almost used {{sofixit}} -- I had looked for the 2006 estimates, but I didn't see them. I may get around to it at some point. Definitely not a very high priority for me though. But if it is something you care about then -- {{sofixit}}. Cheers. olderwiser 11:16, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
I don't know what a sofixit is. --Criticalthinker 00:54, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Click on it. It's a link. olderwiser 01:22, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

State Treasurer of Michigan

Thanks for cleaning up my act. I was wondering if you checked out this new page I created. Other states have Treasurer pages so I thought I'd create one. Jjmillerhistorian 16:54, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Image:MI 14th congressional district (106th Congress).PNG


Thank you for uploading images/media to Wikipedia! There is however another Wikimedia foundation project called Wikimedia Commons, a central media repository for all free media. In the future, please consider creating an account and uploading media there instead. That way, all the other language Wikipedias can use them too, as well as our many sister projects. This will also allow our visitors to search for, view and use our media in one central location. If you wish to move previous uploads to Commons, see Wikipedia:Moving images to the Commons. Please note that non-free content, such as images claimed as fair use, cannot be uploaded to the Wikimedia Commons. Help us spread the word about Commons by informing other users, and please continue uploading! Sfan00 IMG 16:38, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I'm well aware of Commons and I have an account there [1] -- but I don't go there often and due to a negative experience with using Commons, I have little inclination to try again. I once uploaded several pictures that I had taken and used what was at the time an appropriate dual-use license. At some point, that license was deprecated and the images were summarily deleted, without bothering to try to contact me on EN, even though my user page at Commons clearly indicated that I did not frequent Commons and to contact me on EN. Thankfully, the images were recovered, but the incident left me sour on Commons. I see little advantage to me to go through the extra steps to load something onto Commons. If someone else wants to move them to Commons, be my guest. olderwiser 16:55, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Beaver Island (Lake Michigan)

Thanks very much for editing my work on this page. I'm pretty new to all of this, and I'm tending to "learn as I go." I appreciated your comment on style and putting in too many links; that will help me be a better writer in the future. Thanks again! Ecjmartin 00:18, 27 July 2007 (UTC)ecjmartin

Tom Barrett

I am attempting to upload the image to Tom Barrett's page. It is a map of his former congressional district that I found on the U.S. census website. I noticed that you uploaded a similar image of Michigan's 1st district. My problem is that the image from the census website is GIF, but i can't upload a GIF. How do you change a GIF image to PNG? Chflitwick 18:52, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

If you're using Windows, just open it up in MS Paint (In Accessories) and save it as PNG. I couldn't say for other platforms, but I'm sure there are appropriate utilities available. olderwiser 19:40, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
If you're using Mac OS X v10.4 (Tiger), you can open it in Preview. Go to the File menu, then Save As..., then select the Format: PNG. mdkarazim 23:10, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Access dates

Oops! I'll have to hunt down the other access dates I forgot to change. I think they are only in the Lieutent Gov pages I created. I was noticing some of the link weren't going to the intended page for [2] maybe it's a temporary thing. I totally revised Edmund Burke Fairfield, there was alot of missing info. Maybe you could take a peek when you get a chance. I already made one error I had to fix. Jjmillerhistorian 00:29, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

The access date isn't really such a big deal, especially for stable pages. I think it is most useful with web sites where content is frequently refreshed. I'm not sure what page you were intending with the UMich link above. I was having problems accessing the site earlier today. It seems to be better now. olderwiser 01:12, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Actually, the UMich site still seems broken. I figure the usual techs aren't around on a summer weekend. We'll see if it comes back up during the week. olderwiser 02:12, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, it seems to be working now. Thanks for the fix on John S. Barry, that Infobox was a pain to figure out and Mr. IP address messed it up. I fixed Fitzgerald before he messed that up too. I didn't think that "sup" deal really mattered. Jjmillerhistorian 12:12, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup tags

I noticed that you removed the cleanup tag from U.S. Route 131. The tag is necessary to keep track of what articles are in need of cleanup, and the specialized tag is used instead of a generic cleanup tag for two reasons: one, placing the required rationale inside of the template helps editors determine exactly what needs to be done and two, the generic cleanup categories don't work. No one looking for a specific road system to clean up will want to click through dozens of pages of all articles needing cleanup to find one article relating to the system. I suppose the rationale can be moved to the talk page, but I have a hard time believing that the cleanup tag is merely "project clutter". It's an answer to a wikiwide cleanup system that is clearly broken. --TMF Let's Go Mets - Stats 02:30, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Unless the article is so bad that it requires alerting the reader to the faults -- such tags have no place on the article page. Such project specific tags belong on the talk page. olderwiser 02:33, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
What is your opinion on a generic cleanup tag, e.g. {{cleanup}}? --TMF Let's Go Mets - Stats 02:40, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
When the article is clearly substandard in a general sense, it is OK. In effect such a prominent tag is telling readers there is a serious problem with the quality of the article. Tagging an article that is otherwise not noticeably worse than the average wikipedia article merely because it is not up to the standards of some wikiproject seems to me excessive and unnecessary. olderwiser 02:58, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
So you believe that U.S. Route 131 does not need cleanup at all, as you indicated by removing all cleanup tags from the article? --TMF Let's Go Mets - Stats 03:09, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, from one perspective nearly every freaking article in Wikipedia could use some sort of cleanup or another. But let's just say I don't think that article is in such horrible shape that it needs a huge ugly banner at the top of the page telling people it doesn't meet the standards of some project. I'm all for projects maintaining pages -- but you really don't need to be placing such unnecessarily blatant banners on pages that aren't really in such bad shape. Stick a tag on the talk page -- that is where such project-specific tags belong. olderwiser 03:16, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Then what is your opinion about {{cleanup-school}}, carrying a blatant link to WP:SCHOOL and in place on approximately 200 articles? Also, I do believe that US 131 is in poor enough shape to justify a tag. --TMF Let's Go Mets - Stats 03:19, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, I don't care much for it. But schools are perhaps a special case, in that they tend to be a magnet for juvenile crud as well as garden variety well-intentioned but mistaken copy-and-paste sourcing from the school web sites. So putting the tag in readers' faces to call attention to the dubious quality may be appropriate. And until fairly recently, many generic school articles were nearly automatic AfD candidates. It was really only when the school project started to assert some standards for the articles did they become somewhat more tolerated. The tags are a sort of defensive ward from having them nominated for deletion.
In US 131, apart from the Future section, I don't see anything in it that jumps out as being of such sub-standard quality that we need to stick it in the reader's face. Your rationale in the tag was that it contained "non-standard sections", which seems pretty minor in the grand scheme of things. olderwiser 03:30, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

TfD nomination of All USRD Clean-up Templates

All of the USRD Clean-up Templates have been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. master sonT - C 16:45, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Move to Kyiv


I am trying to change the name of the page Kiev to Kyiv. Looking through the archives, I saw that you had contributed to a similar discussion in the past.

The current discussion is happening at:

Please let us know what you think.


Horlo 02:46, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Directions of communities from other communities

I added the information for all surrounding communities of Spring Arbor in the article Spring Arbor, Michigan. I arranged them as North --> Northeast --> East --> Southeast --> South --> Southwest --> West --> Northwest. Is this the right way to arrange them or is there a better way that you know of? mdkarazim 23:04, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

The Chain Barnstar of Recognition

Bstar 500+.jpg The Chain Barnstar of Recognition
For making a difference! This Barnstar isn't free, this is a chain barnstar, as payment please give this star to at least 3-5 others with 500+ edits but no barnstar. So that everyone who deserves one will get one. Hpfan9374 01:10, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

The Chain Barnstar of Merit

Mer2.jpg The Chain Barnstar of Merit
For your hard work! This Barnstar isn't free, this is a chain barnstar, as payment please give this star to at least 4 others with 1500+ edits but no barnstar or has few barnstars. So that everyone who deserves one will get one. Hpfan9374 01:10, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

The Chain Barnstar of Diligence

Bstardil1.jpg The Chain Barnstar of Diligence
For shaping Wikipedia! This Barnstar isn't free, this is a chain barnstar, as payment please give this star to at least 3 others with 2500+ edits but no barnstar or has few barnstars. So that everyone who deserves one will get one. Hpfan9374 01:10, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

The Wikipedian's Chain Barnstar of Honour

Wbstarhonour.jpg The Wikipedian's Chain Barnstar of Honour
For building Wikipedia! This Barnstar isn't free, this is a chain barnstar, as payment please give this star to at least 2 others with 5000+ edits but no barnstar or has few barnstars. So that everyone who deserves one will get one. Hpfan9374 01:10, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


Thanks! It was a non-trivial task, which may explain my relative absence from Wikipedia. moink 19:42, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Find A Grave

Hello Bkonrad, thanks for the Find A Grave warning, I understand your point, that the data may be less than reliable at times. I was following guidelines at Wikipedia:Find-A-Grave famous people, for Wikipedia:WikiProject Missing encyclopedia articles, using the tag{{Find A Grave|id=<F-A-G id>}} in the External links sections, but I may have inadvertently put it in Refs or Sources instead. That was not my intent. But I did add internal {{See also}}wikilinks to the project page above the External links, not external links to the Find A Grave site, as you warned against. Nevertheless, I have discontinued placing those {{See also}}wikilinks, due to potential confusion, as exhibited by your concern..Steven Russell 21:43, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


you have several times removed my contribution to the page for Jackson Michigan. You state every place has ice cream parlors so no need to mention. Well, both the Frosty Boy and the Parlour are Jackson institutions. Secondly, every place has coney dogs too yet you see fit to allow those to stay.

Obviously you are either (a) not from Jackson and/or (b)owner of a coney dog place and unwilling to list anything else. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FyreDragon (talkcontribs) 17:08, August 26, 2007 (UTC)

a) irrelevant and b) nonsense. I only noticed the changes you made -- that is not necessarily an indication that I agree with everything else that is in the article. Reviewing changes is relatively painless -- reviewing an entire article is relatively painstaking. Your additions about the ice cream parlors did not provide any independent source as to the notability of the places you mention. If there are some reliable sources that specifically mention the ice cream parlors, please provide such references. If you question the inclusion of the coney dog material -- feel free to edit that material. olderwiser 17:15, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Alexander Hamilton#GoldenMean

Please come look at this; an editor has been repeatedly removing sourced text from Alexander Hamilton. He has presented no sources, and seems to have been reading Chernow's hagiography. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:29, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

He has now requested a fresh pair of eyes; do come. If I've missed a competing account, tell me. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:26, 30 August 2007 (UTC)