User talk:Bkonrad/Archive 28

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Archive 27 Archive 28 Archive 29

Reversion of Corn to redirect

What you reverted wasn't actually an undiscussed change. I was a little surprised at how quickly the edits had gone through, but then, as only one editor had responded to my comment at Talk:Maize, I wasn't going to argue. I presume though that you'll be adding your voice to the discussion now? Fuzzypeg 22:42, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry if it seemed precipitous, but Maize and Corn have in the past been the cause of considerable dissension. Many editors would much rather have the Maize page titled as Corn. And if you examine what links here for corn, the vast majority of those are intended for Maize. The longstanding compromise has been for the page to be titled Maize and corn redirect to that page. I was not aware that there was any discussion, much less consensus, to change the current setup. olderwiser 22:48, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
And I in turn can apologise for implying that you were new to the discussion. I didn't recognize the older≠wiser sig as Bkonrad. Fuzzypeg 04:38, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Could I ask what you mean by the words "copy and paste move" in the edit summary? SamuelTheGhost (talk) 00:11, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

That was a mistake on my part. I thought it was a copy and paste from Corn (disambiguation). While that was not the case, I still don't think there was any basis for changing corn from being a redirect. olderwiser 01:23, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
And I in turn can apologise for implying that you were new to the discussion. I didn't recognize the older≠wiser sig as being you. Fuzzypeg 04:38, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Holland Township, Missaukee County, Michigan

Hello. I have edited the year that you had shown for the establishment of the post office in Moddersville. The 1860 reference was obviously wrong since the Modders did not actually move to the area until 1878 (according to our family records), which I also corrected from 1875. You may need to change your reference if this information is not in accordance with Romig. You may want to refer to Netherlanders in America: Dutch Immigration to the United States and Canada, 1789-1950 by Henry Stephen Lucas, which corroborates these dates.

Best regards, (talk) 17:02, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for catching that. Romig says Wynand Modders arrived in 1878 and that the post office was established on Aug. 6, 1890. I think the mistaken dates must have been careless typing on my part. Cheers. olderwiser 21:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


Updated DYK query On 6 September, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Copper Country Strike of 1913-1914, which you recently nominated. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Congratulations and keep up the good work, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 04:15, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

change to {{Disambig-cleanup}}

I have reverted your last change to this template. This is a drastic change to established practice. It may well turn out to be perfectly acceptable, but it really should be discussed before implementing. olderwiser 21:56, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Okay. Still, something should be done about that template; having an ambox at the bottom the page really looks bad. —Remember the dot (talk) 22:02, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
Yes, funny I hadn't noticed that before. There is discussion on the template talk page about removing the ambox. Although somewhat stale, the opinions expressed there are unanimous in removing the ambox style. olderwiser 22:10, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

September 2008

Information.svg Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to make constructive contributions to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Belmont, did not appear to be constructive and has been removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you. I will show you line by line why you are mistaken. I have used the principles laid out there at mosdab in changing the disambiguation page. I'm calling this vandalism because I'm clear on why these items don't belong. E_dog95' Hi ' 03:12, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Get real. My edits were in no way vandalism. I defy you to find any other respectable editor who would agree. If you really want to go through the tedium of going line by line, then I will be happy to discuss different valid approaches to WP:MOSDAB. olderwiser 03:15, 7 September 2008 (UTC) This looked like a vandalism warning template, but I see you didn't actually accuse me of that. But I assure you that I am quite familiar with WP:MOSDAB. olderwiser 03:19, 7 September 2008 (UTC)


I certainly don't need to brush up. Here's why.

These, I think, are the three items that we are in disagreement on.

    • Belmont, also known as Bellmund, in the canton of Berne - DOES NOT BELONG BECAUSE THERE'S NO ARTICLE FOR THIS

BELMONT. (Disambiguation pages are solely intended to allow users to choose among several Wikipedia articles.)

  • Gari Melchers Home, also known as Belmont, a museum in Falmouth, Virginia - DOES NOT BELONG BECUASE THE ARTICLE


PIPED. {Entries should not be pipe-linked—refer to the article name in full.}

I appreciate your understanding and I apologize for reverting in a harsh manner. E_dog95' Hi ' 03:26, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

  • There is indeed an article for Bellmund which clearly states an alternate name is Belmont.
  • Precisely because the Gari Melchers Home, is also known as Belmont, it certainly does belong here
  • Yes, the Belmont, suburb of Port of Spain should probably be reframed to avoid using the piped link at the start of the line. However, that alone is not reason to exclude it from the page -- merely to recast the entry. olderwiser 03:30, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Can you work on that then? Thanks E_dog95' Hi ' 03:32, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
You know, I'm new to cleaning up dab pages. I'm sorry, I totally should have checked each one of those items before removing them. I've seen editors do the same thing and now I've offended the same way. Silly of me. Apologies again friend. E_dog95' Hi ' 03:46, 7 September 2008 (UTC)


Well now on this one you've added items that are piped. I just clarified that piped items are not what we're looking for... E_dog95' Hi ' 04:00, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Not sure what you mean. I did not add any piped links to sections (the one that is there was already there). If you mean the piped links to format the titles of works, this is expressly recommended by WP:MOSDAB. olderwiser 04:04, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
OK. The piped items are ok for formatting. Now what about the items that don't have an article? There's no actual disambiguation happening here so they don't belong. As is (Boom, mechanical arm on a microphone stand) and (Boom, spar used on a crane). E_dog95' Hi ' 04:06, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
There are articles in which the indicated sense of boom is described. olderwiser 04:08, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
I do believe you have that purpose of disambiguation a bit skewed. That's why these cleanup templates have been placed; because these pages easily get out of scope by new or ignorant users. What you're saying is that because the term "boom" is indicated in articles they should be listed there. Well let me tell you. I can find a number of other articles that infer "boom" as well, but yet don't have the term in the article name. Shall we include those too? No! What we need to do is keep these pages as simple as possible, which is the opposite of what you're doing. Well, you're even including links in the entry besides the disambiguated term, which mosdab advises against. You know, like this: * Boom Gorge, a gorge on the Chu River in Kyrgyzstan. E_dog95' Hi ' 04:18, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
No, what I'm saying is that a user could reasonably be looking for for one of those senses of "boom", and the disambiguation page should help them locate it. It is possible to create an artificial redirect, but that seems rather pointless in some cases. All of those things could be known simply as "boom" and should be disambiguated. olderwiser 04:23, 7 September 2008 (UTC) And regarding the Boom Gorge example you mention, the MOSDAB recommends including at least one navigable blue link. A bare redlink is often useless. olderwiser 04:25, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

We're talking two different languages i think. E_dog95' Hi ' 04:33, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Alexander Macomb (American general)

BK: Given your burgeoning interests in matters of this ilk, I would appreciate your input. Thank you. Best regards. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 17:16, 7 September 2008 (UTC) Stan


Hi there. I provided all my arguments a week ago at Talk:Maize and asked for comments, stating that I intended to reinstate the Corn article. The only reply I received was one person saying that what I said sounded sensible. Would you like me to wait another week waiting for someone to break the silence? You're pretty quick off the mark now responding to my revert; perhaps you could have been a bit quicker off the mark to engage in debate? Fuzzypeg 02:03, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

And hey, I don't mind waiting, I was just getting a bit bored waiting and I'd like to tick that box as done. Fuzzypeg 02:04, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
I suggest you need to make the proposal a little more explicit, rather than buried away at the bottom of what had been a stale discussion. Although WP:Polling is not a substitute for discussion, a straw poll in this case may help to gauge support for the available options. olderwiser 02:18, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
I don't think it's buried at all. People have watchlists, and I added a note at the bottom of another thread giving people a heads-up that there was some discussion they might want to read. Regarding straw polls, I can already see there has historically been some vociferous support for Corn redirecting to Maize, and I'm not really interested in that. What I'm interested in is whether anyone still supports this position in light of the recently presented arguments, and why. If no-one's piping up with a response, that's a fairly clear indication that they no longer disagree. How about we give it two more days, and if no-one comes up with a coherent argument, you can do the honours and self-revert, turning the Corn article back to an article? I was starting to do a little clean-up, but ran into an edit conflict (surprise, surprise!). I'll resume once we've got the article back. Fuzzypeg 02:34, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Re: the disambiguation page. I'm sorry my wording is awkward, but I don't understand why you think it is inconsistent to add a phrase explaining that it is the meaning of the worn corn as a main cereal crop which leads to its use to describe many different cereals. The main cereal in N America is maize, hence that is the meaning there. In other countries and at other times there are or have been other main crops. Could you rewording it in a less awkward fashion rather than removing the phrase? Rachel Pearce (talk) 13:04, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

It seems confusing to have it say it is one thing at the very top, per the primary topic disambiguation guideline and then immediately below say that it is something else. I thought that I had left the sense that it also means other cereal grains. olderwiser 21:33, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

dab cleanup reverts

I would have appreciated a note on my talk page after you reverted so many of my dab page changes. I'm willing to learn, but I can't learn from your edit summaries. I'm editing some of the affected pages again, but not the same as before. If you feel any of my new changes need reverting, PLEASE drop me a note first and give me some specifics so I can learn what you think I'm doing wrong. Thanks! Auntof6 (talk) 03:49, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (Image:All-America City Logo.png)


Thanks for uploading Image:All-America City Logo.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? J Milburn (talk) 13:13, 8 September 2008 (UTC)


I have filed a request at Wikipedia:Wikiquette alerts regarding User:Grayghost01. I mentioned your name and provided a diff relating to his response to you regarding the COI. Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 18:28, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

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Clare County, Michigan

Thanks for fixing the Clare County template; I don't know how/why the Gladwin County townships got listed there instead of the Clare County townships. Nyttend (talk) 19:21, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Sterling Heights, Michigan

Lots of unsourced demographic changes here. I tried to undo them, but had no luck. I had undone the 8 lb./10 lb. candy bar man in the interim, which evidently created an edit conflict issue. 7&6=thirteen (talk) 12:21, 17 September 2008 (UTC) Stan


Thanks for helping put the Dom (disambiguation) page back where it belongs. I think all the pages are in the right places now. Ex nihil (talk) 00:24, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


why you have deleted yummy??????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cacarlo92 (talkcontribs) 17:52, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

For this. --Andrew Kelly (talk) 21:13, 19 September 2008 (UTC)


My mistake, I was confusing the application of the MOSDAB lead sentence section with respect to FOO and FOO (disambiguation) pages. Anyway, see my latest change, it is in the format required for FOO type db pages, but it addresses what was my original motivation, that the entry for "Tire" should not be confusingly pipelinked from "Tyre", when you are already seemingly at the Tyre page. I hope that makes sense. MickMacNee (talk) 21:58, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

henry ford

Thank you for your interest in the Henry Ford article. There seems to be a copyright violation. It has been reported. According to that board, it takes a few days to process. According to the tag instructions, copyright violation tags must not be removed. Please don't remove it. Once the issue is decided, I am all for resolving this issue. I don't like tags anymore than you but it's just part of the wikipedia process. Again, please don't violate the written policy/instructions prohibiting premature tag removal. Thank you. 903M (talk) 02:53, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

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thanks for your work on Onota

good to see a little back fill on history there; it's part of some longer story of iron ore mining in Marquette County, MI that has all sorts of interconnected parts. Edward Vielmetti (talk) 22:28, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Star (disambiguation)

Because my edit summary was cut off, I'll explain here. I originally removed Asterisk, Star (glyph), and numerous other entries from Star (disambiguation) as part of an organizational split. The uses of the star as a visual symbol are now expanded and disambiguated at List of symbolic stars (which is more of a set-index article or regular list than a true dab page, because its entries are related in more than name). As you can see, both pages are quite lengthy, which the split was designed to relieve. Obviously, any entry at List of symbolic stars would, on its own, make sense at Star (disambiguation), but seeing as links to the former article are pretty prominently placed on the latter (both in bold in the introductory line, and as the first entry in the "See also" section), I don't see a need to double-list any of the entries, which negates the benefit of the split. — Swpbτ c 22:57, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Pioneer (military)

There was no need to swear or undo, redo and do the cut and paste move I did. Its only a bad thing if there is an need to keep the history with the content for copyright reasons, and there is not that need in this article yet--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♣ 12:33, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for swearing, but you are incorrect about the need to keep edit history with the page. It is a requirement of GFDL. olderwiser 12:34, 28 September 2008 (UTC)


You seem to be on a campaign to revert back removed wikilinks. Please see WP:REDDEAL, which states in part which links should be removed: "The link is broken and no longer leads to an article (perhaps because the underlying article was deleted). In such a case, the link usually needs to be removed or renamed to point to an existing article." Tan | 39 22:07, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

You missed the first sentence of that section: In general, red links should not be removed if they link to something that could plausibly sustain an article. Simply because someone created a crappy article that was speedily deleted does not automatically invalidate all the other pre-existing redlinks to that subject. It is unhelpful to delete such redlinks. olderwiser 22:13, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
I didn't miss that sentence, but I'm not interested in fighting with you; you seem rather testy. Have a nice day. Tan | 39 22:21, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
Sorry if I was snarky. Amusingly, the article already exists.... Walsh College of Accountancy and Business. Cleaned it up and relinked it. Tan | 39 22:47, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

San Luis Obispo moves...

The note added when I moved the SLO pags was "WP:NC:CITY". If you'd read that page you'd realize that San Luis Obispo, California is against the Wikipedia naming convention. It should only be San Luis Obispo, California if the name needs disambiguation due to other cities named San Luis Obispo. Since it's unique, it should be San Luis Obispo. Because of the naming convention, I felt that no discussion was necessary. Unless you can bring up a reason why this article should be named against convention, I'll co-ordinate the move again. I'm also adding this note to the articles.  X  S  G  00:46, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:NC:CITY#United_States. It has been a subject of much discussion already, and the relatively stable convention for U.S. places is City, State. 01:01, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
Yup. You're right. Sorry for the trouble.  X  S  G  01:56, 14 October 2008 (UTC)


Hi Bkonrad, I'm sorry, but I must insist on the the category tags, or at least the one for Crotalinae by common name remaining in place in the article. The reason for this is a project that I started in 2006 to create categories for common names and taxonomic synonyms for snakes. For example, take Crotalinae by common name and Crotalinae by taxonomic synonyms. Most of the contents of these categories are redirects, but every once in a while when we find that a common name or taxonomic synonym is also used to refer to one or more other species, the redirect gets turned into a disambiguation page. My arguments is that in such cases it is not constructive to remove the existing category tag simply because a rule somewhere states that disambig pages should otherwise not have category tags. --Jwinius (talk) 23:36, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, I'm also sorry because such content-specific categories are inappropriate for a disambiguation page. You can take it up at Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation if you think you're case merits an exception. olderwiser 00:20, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
Very well. --Jwinius (talk) 03:51, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Foster, Oregon

Thanks for starting the article on Foster, Oregon. I see that it was removed from the list at Foster per WP:MOSDAB, but I was just fixing up a dab page myself and reread MOSDAB and was under the impression that redlinks were OK on dab pages as long as they had incoming links. And, as I'm sure you noticed, Foster, Oregon has several. Am I missing something? Katr67 (talk) 19:23, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Different editors will enforce varying standards with regards to redlinks. For some, it would appear that the goal of having perfectly sanitized disambiguation pages takes priority over other things like building an encyclopedia. In any case, bare redlinks are certainly the most at risk, as some editors don't bother to check whether a redlink has any other incoming links. Redlinks that also include a bluelink that mentions the item have a better chance of surviving such cleanup edits. olderwiser 19:31, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Gull Island

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Hello, Bkonrad. You have new messages at Stepshep's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

§hep¡Talk to me! 22:57, 25 October 2008 (UTC)


I am not disputing with you that those names would be better off on another page. My objection is that you should move them to that other page, not just mindlessly delete them. SpinningSpark 23:38, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

School (producer)

Should this redirect be tagged with {{db-typo}}? Please reply on your talk page, Lord Sesshomaru (talkedits) 16:46, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Makes little difference to me. While I don't agree with using specially-created redirects on disambiguation pages, redirects are cheap and if they are not completely incorrect, there is little harm in keeping them around. But at the same time, if there is little value added by keeping them around, then they could be deleted. olderwiser 17:27, 31 October 2008 (UTC)