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Due to harassment, only registered, autoconfirmed, editors have a right to post on my talk page.

If you are an IP and need to contact me, you can leave comments on this subpage. I may not notice those messages for several days, so be patient.

If you want to enjoy the full benefits, rights, tools, email access, privileges, and respect enjoyed by editors here, just create an account. Thanks. BullRangifer



Extraordinary wiki suppression mechanisms

Discussion is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#Guideline_or_Policy_proposals — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.181.82.216 (talk) 14:44, 9 September 2014 (UTC) ────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

Here are my thoughts on the matter of suppressing information found in RS which might endanger the lives, in this case, of terrorist captives.

There is a hatted the discussion on Jimbo's talk page. Note that I haven't followed this matter closely, and I haven't even read that thread...yet, because I want to develop some of my thoughts without any influence from such discussions. My thoughts have to do with the concept of "risk/degree of harm" and how notability/publicity is a big factor.

I leave open as a legitimate possibility that, to cause less harm, we sometimes may need to (temporarily) ignore RS and suppress the information here. We are not obligated to immediately use any or all RS which exist, only to use them when we finally do write about a subject. If we choose to temporarily ignore a subject, then we can keep the RS on our own PCs at home. The issue is that most RS related to current events are of a temporary, less notable, nature. They are newspaper and magazine articles. Print media are already gone tomorrow, but on the internet they may remain visible for a short while, and then are archived, often behind a paywall, so many of them do disappear, but not all of them. Those forms of RS coverage have limited notability and thus a limited potential for causing harm.

If we accept that Wikipedia likely has the largest degree of notability on the internet, and that by enshrining these otherwise temporary RS into very notable and high profile articles here, we are greatly increasing the degree of risk/harm, then we are justified in temporarily suppressing coverage of a story which can increase the risk of great harm to individuals.

Wikipedia magnifies and amplifies the influence of RS, and we share the responsibility for consequences. Our articles can increase the likelihood of individuals being used as hostages, or being moved to the front of the line of hostages to next be executed. Their notability and value to kidnappers and terrorists was greatly increased by Wikipedia, and we actually facilitated and hastened their demise! It's a rather sobering thought, and should cause us to take our job seriously. We must consider BLP issues and potential for harm each time we are dealing with such matters.

These principles need to be encoded into policy, likely as an addition to WP:BLP. It needs to be explicit, and not hidden away. For the record, avoiding harm was rejected, including as part of BLP. It's now just an essay. -- Brangifer (talk) 15:10, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Because this issue lies at the crossroads of WP:BLP, WP:RECENTISM, WP:NOTNEWS, WP:CRIME, and possibly other guidelines and policies, it needs its own name. -- Brangifer (talk) 16:06, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Relevant links:

Ayurveda

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John (talk) 22:17, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

 ??? What's up? I'll start checking histories to figure out what's going on. -- BullRangifer (talk) 02:11, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
Hi John. Okay, some explanation is coming to light. It looks like I stepped into a touchy situation. Sorry about that. The deletions I reverted just appeared at the top of my watchlist, and knowing the editor (a well-known pusher of fringe views and whitewasher of his favorite pseudoscientific subjects), and his penchant for deleting properly sourced content he doesn't like, I reverted it to what I assumed was the status quo version. Calling it "POV vandalism" (not just "vandalism") might have been a bit unfriendly, but I tend to call improper removal of properly sourced content vandalism, and in this case I specified the type as "POV vandalism", IOW a fringe POV driven removal of properly sourced content, otherwise known as whitewashing. This was classic Bladesmulti and Littleolive oil behavior, and par for the course for both of them. I see that Bladesmulti is now blocked, and I'll take this warning to heart and be more careful. It's pretty rare that I edit that article, but now I know that it's more touchy than I realized. Thanks. -- BullRangifer (talk) 02:31, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Blades talk page

Hi BullRangifer, I believe we have not met, but we have both had significant interactions with Blades, and so I noticed your posts on his talk. While you're right that it reflects poorly on him when he deletes it, I believe he is within policy when doing so; [1], and it isn't worth your while to get involved. John is likely to see it, and if you are concerned he might miss it, post on his page. Regards, Vanamonde93 (talk) 07:24, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

I know it's a touchy area covered by the intersection of several policies, in this case TALK, OWN, BATTLE, and CIVIL. Unfortunately the application of all these policies to this situation isn't codified, so it's understood differently by different admins. Blocked users have had their talk page access for violations of WP:TALK when they interfere with current disputes and communication. They have fewer, not more, rights than other editors.
Talk pages have specific functions, and they are owned by the community for communication with the editor and others involved in a discussion. Editor's ownership of their talk page is limited, especially if their actions on the page prevent use of the talk page for its intended purpose. That's a violation of TALK. In this case it interfered with communication. Only grossly uncivil comments should be removed. It should not be necessary to look in the history to find messages and information.
Bladesmulti's actions show an uncollaborative attitude. I gave him one chance to reconsider his actions, but he has refused and I'm not going to try again. That would be edit warring, so I just hope others see him for what he is and maybe remove his access to his talk page. Violations of TALK should not be tolerated, especially when blocked users do it to their own page. They don't own it that much. Improper OWNERSHIP behavior can also apply to one's own talk page. -- BullRangifer (talk) 14:34, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
You're right, of course, and I don't mean to suggest that Blades actions are justified; what I am saying is that they are justifiable, and so perhaps not quite worth getting into an edit-war over. My own interactions with Blades have hardly been smooth :) Regards, Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:41, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 18 March 2015

Great coverage in the Signpost:

Removed

BullRangifer, this kind of remark could really get you in trouble, please don't mention stuff like that. I've removed it. In this case there wasn't even any call for it — the age thing is plenty. Bishonen | talk 22:29, 21 March 2015 (UTC).

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Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Nakon 05:44, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

requesting essay input

I started the page User:John Carter/Self-appointed prophet to basically deal with editors who are a bit beyond being simple POV pushers but don't necessarily have a monetary COI. Basically, to include the real fanatics and evangelists out there. I figured you probably know a few from the field of pseudoscience as well. Feel free to make any copy-editing (which I'm pretty sure it needs) or any additions you think reasonable. John Carter (talk) 18:26, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

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Callanecc (talkcontribslogs) 07:34, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

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Thanks

Just wanted to say thanks for what you said over at the IP user's page. This person now appears to be socking and hasn't learned his/her lesson. Tsk tsk tsk. TylerDurden8823 16:56, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Some idiots never give up. -- BullRangifer (talk) 17:05, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
The dumbest thing is the ridiculous overreaction this person has to a relatively minor edit on a somewhat important food page hahaha. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 17:50, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 22 April 2015

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Stay off my User Talk

I've had enough of your hounding (following my edits), harassment (attempts to defame), and baiting (modifying/subverting my Talk page post). Quit hounding me, quit baiting me, and from here on out stay off my User Talk. IHTS (talk) 16:48, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

IHTS, you do realize that you have just broken every conceivable letter and spirit of AGF, don't you? I can hardly conceive of a more brilliant demonstration of how not to do things. Every single thing you wrote above is untrue and wrong. It reveals the consequences of failing to AGF. That attitude poisons the mind, and your mind is totally toxic.
You mistake civil discussion, explanation of policies, and disagreement for a war directed against you personally, and then, once started on that warpath, you don't deviate from it, even though all that effort by multiple editors and admins has been directed at trying to teach you how things work here. You seem incapable of AGF. That's why you're always in trouble and at odds with other editors. You see conspiracies and adversaries everywhere. You don't have a collaborative bone in your body. You are the embodiment of a fringe warrior and don't belong at Wikipedia. I doubt you'll last much longer. All this is a consequence of violating ONE policy. AGF is that important. -- BullRangifer (talk) 19:20, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 April 2015

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