User talk:BullRangifer

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Kevin Trudeau[edit]

I was wondering about that after I clicked. Thanks for fixing. SlightSmile 00:27, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

I too wondered and had to compare the actual appearance. -- Brangifer (talk) 00:29, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Extraordinary wiki suppression mechanisms[edit]

Discussion is here: — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:44, 9 September 2014 (UTC) ────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────

Here are my thoughts on the matter of suppressing information found in RS which might endanger the lives, in this case, of terrorist captives.

There is a hatted the discussion on Jimbo's talk page. Note that I haven't followed this matter closely, and I haven't even read that thread...yet, because I want to develop some of my thoughts without any influence from such discussions. My thoughts have to do with the concept of "risk/degree of harm" and how notability/publicity is a big factor.

I leave open as a legitimate possibility that, to cause less harm, we sometimes may need to (temporarily) ignore RS and suppress the information here. We are not obligated to immediately use any or all RS which exist, only to use them when we finally do write about a subject. If we choose to temporarily ignore a subject, then we can keep the RS on our own PCs at home. The issue is that most RS related to current events are of a temporary, less notable, nature. They are newspaper and magazine articles. Print media are already gone tomorrow, but on the internet they may remain visible for a short while, and then are archived, often behind a paywall, so many of them do disappear, but not all of them. Those forms of RS coverage have limited notability and thus a limited potential for causing harm.

If we accept that Wikipedia likely has the largest degree of notability on the internet, and that by enshrining these otherwise temporary RS into very notable and high profile articles here, we are greatly increasing the degree of risk/harm, then we are justified in temporarily suppressing coverage of a story which can increase the risk of great harm to individuals.

Wikipedia magnifies and amplifies the influence of RS, and we share the responsibility for consequences. Our articles can increase the likelihood of individuals being used as hostages, or being moved to the front of the line of hostages to next be executed. Their notability and value to kidnappers and terrorists was greatly increased by Wikipedia, and we actually facilitated and hastened their demise! It's a rather sobering thought, and should cause us to take our job seriously. We must consider BLP issues and potential for harm each time we are dealing with such matters.

These principles need to be encoded into policy, likely as an addition to WP:BLP. It needs to be explicit, and not hidden away. For the record, avoiding harm was rejected, including as part of BLP. It's now just an essay. -- Brangifer (talk) 15:10, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Because this issue lies at the crossroads of WP:BLP, WP:RECENTISM, WP:NOTNEWS, WP:CRIME, and possibly other guidelines and policies, it needs its own name. -- Brangifer (talk) 16:06, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Relevant links:

Buteyko_method Wiki page[edit]

Thank you, BullRangifer, for your message related to Following rules of Wikipedia, I posted a note on a talk page My note is: "Clinical evidence claims that chronic hyperventilation is the norm in chronic conditions. This is a fact of science and a reminder to provide supporting medical evidence for anyone who has objections to this statement or continues to reverse the Buteyko page to claims that "this theory is not widely supported in the medical community due to the lack of evidence supporting either the theory ". The required clinical references can be found on the Homepage of and includes measurements conducted by 100s of medical doctors on thousands of patients. It is not about who is right and who is wrong. We are discussing matters of science and medicine not personal needs of individuals.ARakhimov 06:48, 11 September 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ArtourRakhimov (talkcontribs)

Thanks again, BullRangifer. I collect clinical evidence and facts. This evidence includes dozens of medical studies. I refer to Homepage in order to avoid posting 70+ references on this page or on Buteyko page. Do you suggest that I provide these 70+ references (that people with diseases and modern normal subjects hyperventilate - breathe 2-3 times more than the norm) first on the Talk page and then we can decide what to do with facts? I can do that (without a referral to, if it is better for a discussion and finding a consensus.ARakhimov 07:30, 11 September 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ArtourRakhimov (talkcontribs)

Blue Is the Warmest Colour[edit]

Hi. Per WP:FILMDIST we don't list all the international distributors in the infobox ("... the distributor(s) should be restricted to the country or countries that produced the film..."). As it's not an American film, I've removed it. Feel free to add it as prose in the body if needed. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 17:16, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

I notice that it says that if there are only two, to include them, but there are actually quite a few distributors, so I see your point and will self-revert. Thanks for the explanation. -- Brangifer (talk) 17:25, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

Generation Rescue[edit]

Given the changes already made and the "preferred version" soon to come, would a mention on FTN be warranted on this? I have no doubt GR will push to get any hint that their view is fringe out of the article, as shown by the changes they've already managed to have made on their behalf by OTRS. Ravensfire (talk) 16:48, 24 September 2014 (UTC)

And after that last post on the talk page - I posted on FTN. I'm still waiting for OTRS to post GR's "draft" version. I doubt we'll be able to prevent OTRS from shoving that down our throats and locking it down, based on the comments made. Ravensfire (talk) 15:00, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
I suspect Jimbo would be pretty pissed off about this abuse. -- Brangifer (talk) 16:10, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
Hi. I am shocked by all this, having only discovered it late in the evening here in the UK. OTRS has made a huge error AFAIC, but on the other hand, I'm not really awake enough to make rational judgement. I shall be back when awake and rational. -Roxy the dog™ (resonate) 23:24, 25 September 2014 (UTC)
I'm thinking that this should result in some strict rules which forbid OTRS volunteers from themselves making the edits, unless they are clearly and unequivocally BLP issues.
Especially legal threats (not an issue here) received through that system should be met in the same way we normally deal with them....strong resistance. We will not be intimidated by such threats. We rely on RS for our content, and editors are protected by laws which protect users of the internet who reproduce content created by others. OTOH, the original creators of those RS may be liable if they libel someone, but those who copy or quote their work are protected by law.
The OTRS system must not be compromised by COI suspicions. The volunteers should not be allowed to get caught in such situations. They can get caught in the middle of matters which are far beyond their knowledge and area of responsibility. Their job is to relay concerns and let other editors deal with it in the normal manner, and they should act like any other COI editor....just use the talk page to give guidance. They should never use OTRS as a means to intimidate editors and stifle normal editing, as was done here. They are not above our policies and guidelines. Using vague OTRS and WMF concerns as an excuse to make disputed edits is wrong on so many levels. -- Brangifer (talk) 02:00, 26 September 2014 (UTC)


Are you aware of any edit that user:WhatamIdoing has made that is not a good faith edit? If not why did you add "Reverted good faith edits by WhatamIdoing (talk): See talk. It's a very minor quibble and OR can't undo it. (TW)" as a comment to this edit?

While such a comment may be useful when reverting the edits of an IP address or a new user, both to reassure the inexperienced editor and to inform other editors, if you are changing the edit of an established editor, I think such a comment is a breach of WP:AGF as you should assume that all the edit made by an established editor are made in good faith, and implies that you think the established editor makes bad faith edits (if not why add it the phrase with a link to AGF?).

-- PBS (talk) 10:39, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Isn't this wording added automatically by one of the revert tools (TW)? Perhaps it would be good to ... AGF? Alexbrn talk|contribs|COI 10:50, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
Under the argument "I didn't shoot her the gun did"? I think the individual editor has to take responsibility for the comments they place in the edit history of an article. If TW can not be altered by an editor so that it does not place such comments in the edit history, then one is free to revert an edit by self selecting the edit to which one wishes to revert and place a more appropriate comment in the edit history. -- PBS (talk) 11:13, 26 September 2014 (UTC)
That's a standard Twinkle message used by all editors who use Twinkle, so you should not try to imply bad faith. Reversion also offers the other option, which is to treat it like vandalism, and that would indeed be an assumption of bad faith on my part, but that was not the case. If you want to make some big deal out of an old edit, then start attacking the thousands of edits made with exactly that message every single day between long time editors here. Don't just single me out. -- Brangifer (talk) 14:39, 26 September 2014 (UTC)


I've got this now. I see you've reverted 3 times at a talk page. Not really necessary. Anyway, I've told him firmly not to do it again or I'll block. Dougweller (talk) 20:59, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Good. I also stopped at 3 reverts. Face-wink.svg Normally I never revert that much. -- Brangifer (talk) 21:04, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

OTRS at ANI[edit]

Please see my latest post at ANI. If this is a dead horse let me know, there or on my talk page. If you feel my five point summary needs addressing a note at ANI would be appreciated. Best. - - MrBill3 (talk) 00:47, 30 September 2014 (UTC)