User talk:Chris troutman

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Committed identity: 53034b2749273e66509e3f88fd103b4882f16345902df017ef05f53fcdaa37eb69268ba4777ee04b32c2a6d6fc308063da7f51adb04a5addd52649c095c47659 is grammatical article for the hash function SHA-512 commitment to this user's real-life identity.
Today's motto...
— That's Edinburgh Castle, Albert.
— Is it? What did they put it up there for?
RfA candidate S O N S% Ending (UTC) Time left Dups? Report
AlanM1 25 9 6 74 18:30, 29 July 2014 5 days, 1 hours
RfB candidate S O N S% Ending (UTC) Time left Dups? Report

Last updated by cyberbot I NotifyOnline at 16:30, 24 July 2014 (UTC)


María del Monte draft[edit]

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Fresh catch o' the day![edit]

Rainbow trout transparent.png Whack!

You've been whacked with a wet trout.

Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know you did something silly.

For this revert, restoring an erroneous (good faith) bold edit whilst citing WP:BRD and requesting unnecessary discussion, you are awarded, in the spirit of levity and collegial feedback, this trout. Kind regards. VQuakr (talk) 07:36, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

I put that button on my userpage more than a year ago. I was wondering how long until someone pushed it. Now I know. Chris Troutman (talk) 15:13, 24 June 2014 (UTC)


Hi there.

Yay! I am considering coming back to CVU! I choose you as a trainer. Are you able to take on another student? I already have the User_talk:Akifumii/CVUA Thanks. --AkifumiiTalk 15:46, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

@Akifumii: If I take you on as a student, how sure can I be that you'll complete the training? Chris Troutman (talk) 18:59, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
@Chris troutman: One of my biggest regrets was to quit CVUA. I am positive I will complete the training this time. Are you up for it? --AkifumiiTalk 19:20, 25 June 2014 (UTC)
Ok. This is your new CVUA page. Chris Troutman (talk) 21:04, 25 June 2014 (UTC)

@Chris troutman: Done with the first assignment. --AkifumiiTalk 02:00, 26 June 2014 (UTC

Just a talk page stalker :p Akifumii, the first revert link you have given is appropriate. But if I were you, I would not have used rollback to revert it. You mentioned that it is a good faith edit. By using rollback, you give the IP the impression that 'your edit is vandalism and does not require an edit summary'. You should use Twinkle AGF button to revert, and with a revert summary. That was also their first edit as well, so it does not warrant the use of rollback. Jianhui67 TC 17:46, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Mexico[edit]

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Ambassadors of Ghana to Russia[edit]

Dear Chris, I was trying to add a category to 'Ambassadors of Ghana to Russia' The page I wish to add is not on the English site, but on the Russian site. What do I do? Категория:Посольство Ганы в России Translation in English, Category:Embassy of Ghana in Russia I would be grateful for your help. Thank you. (talk) 22:54, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

@, Dorothyelliott: Since I have posted on your talk page, I am watching it and will respond there. You don't need to contact me on my talk page, as well. Please be careful when linking to categories. You must place a colon (:) ahead of the word 'category' or it will put that article (like my talk page) in that category. I fixed it myself. Finally, be careful to log-in before you edit. Certainly you would want me to know that Dorothy Elliott is leaving a message for me, not some random IP. Chris Troutman (talk) 23:07, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you Chris, I understand it is not possible to add categories from other language sites. I think it will be a good idea if that was possible as and when the page is not on the English site. Thanks again. DorothyDorothyelliott (talk) 23:20, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

Del Monte... again[edit]

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Friendly request.[edit]

Hello there Chris! I'm not certain if you've noticed the RfC on VPR about the use of deprecated and obsolete HTML elements used in wikitext, but I'm in the process of going through and trying to clean some of it up in templates, modules, help/project pages, and attempting to reduce future uses by helping editors update their signature to not use these obsoloete tags. If you are interest in updating your signature, I suggest replacing:

<font face="copperplate gothic light">[[User:Chris troutman|<span style="color:#36454F">Chris Troutman</span>]] ([[User talk:Chris troutman|<span style="color:#36454F">talk</span>]])</font>


<span class="nowrap" style="font-family:copperplate gothic light;">[[User:Chris troutman|<span style="color:#345">Chris Troutman</span>]] ([[User talk:Chris troutman|<span style="color:#345">talk</span>]])</span>

which will result in a 212 character long signature with an appearance of: Chris Troutman (talk)
compared to your existing 189 character long signature of: Chris Troutman (talk)
— Either way. Happy editing! — {{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 21:36, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done Yes, I was aware of the RfC. I'm a history major and couldn't really follow the discussion. Thanks for letting me know what needed to be changed. Chris Troutman (talk) 21:58, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Talkback from Technical 13[edit]

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Hello, Chris troutman. You have new messages at Template talk:Afc decline.
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{{U|Technical 13}} (etc) 22:31, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

Gatch torture[edit]

You probably have this on your watch list, but Immurement#Immurement in Persia covers this in more detail with decent sources. Dougweller (talk) 16:28, 29 June 2014 (UTC)

WikiCup 2014 June newsletter[edit]

After an extremely close race, Round 3 is over. 244 points secured a place in Round 4, which is comparable to previous years- 321 was required in 2013, while 243 points were needed in 2012. Pool C's Smithsonian Institution Godot13 (submissions) was the round's highest scorer, mostly due to a 32 featured pictures, including both scans and photographs. Also from Pool C, Scotland Casliber (submissions) finished second overall, claiming three featured articles, including the high-importance Grus (constellation). Third place was Pool B's , whose contributions included featured articles Russian battleship Poltava (1894) and Russian battleship Peresvet. Pool C saw the highest number of participants advance, with six out of eight making it to the next round.

The round saw this year's first featured portal, with Republic of Rose Island Sven Manguard (submissions) taking Portal:Literature to featured status. The round also saw the first good topic points, thanks to Florida 12george1 (submissions) and the 2013 Atlantic hurricane season. This means that all content types have been claimed this year. Other contributions of note this round include a featured topic on Maya Angelou's autobiographies from Idaho Figureskatingfan (submissions), a good article on the noted Czech footballer Tomáš Rosický from Bartošovice v Orlických horách Cloudz679 (submissions) and a now-featured video game screenshot, freely released due to the efforts of Republic of Rose Island Sven Manguard (submissions).

The judges would like to remind participants to update submission pages promptly. This means that content can be checked, and allows those following the competition (including those participating) to keep track of scores effectively. This round has seen discussion about various aspects of the WikiCup's rules and procedures. Those interested in the competition can be assured that formal discussions about how next year's competition will work will be opened shortly, and all are welcome to voice their views then. If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews. If you want to help out with the WikiCup, please do your bit to help keep down the review backlogs! Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn (talk · contribs) The ed17 (talk · contribs) and Miyagawa (talk · contribs) 18:48, 30 June 2014 (UTC)


You are correct! When it did nothing to help me, I deleted it. Should it still be entered? I appreciate your help, but I would appreciate it even more if you had time enough to walk me through the process as set out in the directions, step by step. Then, it may become simple for me too. In any case, thank you very much for your help. Pendright (talk) 02:44, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

@Pendright: Well, all I did was add "A-Class=current" to the MILHIST template. Most talk pages have WikiProject banner templates and many of those templates have optional parameters that can be used (like the class rating). "A-Class" is one of the parameters in that template. You've already created the justification for the request. Dank added your nomination to the announcements so you should be hearing from an interested editor sometime. All you have to do now is wait. I have experience with WikiProject GA but I've never done an A-class review so I can't help you on that. Does that answer your request? Chris Troutman (talk) 03:24, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
Yes, thank you kindly! 21:52, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Seeking wikiPedia mentoring in SoCal[edit]

Thanks for the revert - I completely missed that 2013 date! I'm in San Diego, looking for a few wikiPedia-savvy people to help me make sense of the learning curve... Do you have a series of assignments you recommend? Thanks! DrMel (talk) 03:11, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

@DrMel: I see you're not exactly a new user so I'm not sure what to recommend. For Wikipedia buttonology and coding, I'd recommend the Wikipedia Adventure. It's a little juvenile but it's good. If you feel comfortable with that material, there's The Missing Manual. It explains concepts in Wikipedia. I see you've already joined a few WikiProjects and you've added yourself to the list of Wikipedians in San Diego. By working on the various WikiProject to-do lists you'll practice editing and encounter more Wikipedians. Edit-a-thons will appear on occasion and those will be helpful, too. If you plan to travel up to LA for our upcoming Wiknic we'd be glad to have you. If you start building an edit history you might consider taking the training to become a Campus Ambassador. There was a course just this past Spring at UC San Diego that NativeForeigner was involved with. I'm involved in a bunch of stuff so check out my user page to get an idea of who else and what else is out there. Chris Troutman (talk) 03:53, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

Do you consider that helpful to a new user?[edit]

"We don't answer this sort of question here."

Think about the message that sends to a new user, please. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:55, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

The same user left a message at the AfC Help Desk to which I replied. While I could have double-tapped that response on the AfC talk as well, I chose to be curt and let the other response assist the user. Yes, most new users wouldn't be pleased with that first response. I'll try to bear that in mind in the future. Chris Troutman (talk) 06:16, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
Thank you very much for your responsive answer. We all have to deal with new users who sometimes engage in "forum shopping" behavior. And other shit sometimes too. Every case judged on its merits. But I think that an assumption of good faith serves us well in almost all such cases. So, just a hint, or a suggestion. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 06:49, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Yun Mu Kwan Draft[edit]

I think in this case the submission has been bypassed and the draft is no longer being dealt with. Not sure how to remove drafts when this happens.Peter Rehse (talk) 17:41, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

@PRehse: Hmmm. An end-run around AfC. I'm going to have to think about how to handle this. Thanks for letting me know. Chris Troutman (talk) 18:09, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
At first it annoyed me too and I put it up for speedy delete but considering a lot of the issues first mentioned are now cleaned up and there is no actual requirement that articles have to submitted via the draft process - I ended up providing some help. I was just wondering how to remove redundant drafts. There does not seem to be a clear policy.Peter Rehse (talk) 18:46, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
I would think redundant drafts can be deleted under WP:G13. However, the draft was declined due to a lack of reliable sources and to my mind, it never had any notability. My further concern is that the reliable sources don't substantiate the articles's claims. (It appears to be a hoax.) I'm not so sure this main namespace version is passable and I'm considering going the AfD route. I think I'll nominate the mainspace article. If it gets deleted the author can go back to the draft. If the AfD fails, we can delete the draft. Chris Troutman (talk) 20:08, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your excellent help with my course!![edit]

Real Life Barnstar.jpg

Thanks so much for fielding student questions, helping them move their article online, and being generally super helpful for the wikipedia project for my course in boundary layer meteorology at UCLA! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jfk nl80 (talkcontribs) 21:30, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

Undoing Edits[edit]

Hi there Chris.

I have recently reverted vandalism with the twinkle rollback feature as well as with my rollback rights. I haven't used the undo button very much. Sorry about that. I will "undo" edits from now on unless you instruct me to otherwise. Thanks. --AkifumiiTalk 05:11, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

You would do well to quit going after other programs and focus on this training, which you've already committed to. The current exercise doesn't have to be done one at a time. Complete the whole table if you wish. Understand that every wrong entry will result in more being assigned. Chris Troutman (talk) 06:42, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
I understand. Thank you. Will I be assigned more because of the edits I reverted with rollback? If so, how many? --AkifumiiTalk 16:01, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
I've only added one (row 4A) since you didn't issue a warning. It'll be a one-for-one basis. Chris Troutman (talk) 16:56, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. You may want to take a look at this. I was reviewing pending changes and saw that this edit had vandalism. I reverted it not with rollback, not with twinkle, not with undo, but with the reviewer tools on the top of the page. --AkifumiiTalk 17:03, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
I find this frustrating. We've gotten to the end of the manual section so it won't be an issue going forward. Typically users that complete CVUA don't already have those permissions. Chris Troutman (talk) 20:28, 5 July 2014 (UTC)


Hi - you declined submission on the page Allyson Stewart Allen, however all of the references are verifiable - could you advise me on how to overcome this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Museofmarketing (talkcontribs) 14:17, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

@Museofmarketing: I explained my reasoning on the draft; you should read that. The applicable notability criteria specifies that the subject "Has had significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions.". Allyson Stewart Allen doesn't meet that, to my mind. You are welcome to submit your draft again and get a second opinion. You can also ask at the AfC Help Desk. Chris Troutman (talk) 17:22, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Advice on resubmission - Krupskaya (UK Band)[edit]

Hello there, I hope you're well and enjoyed a great week.

Last month I submitted an article for a band, at the address:

It was rejected and I would like to please request some advice on what I should do to ensure it is of acceptable criteria.

I understand that the web site links selling the bands work perhaps aren't acceptable as citations to their discography, but I wasn't sure what else I could use in lieu of the information being available in any other, singular place. In this instance, would it be better for me to leave the citations out of the discography completely?

Before I submitted my article for the band (whom I saw perform during the latter years of the previous decade), I wasn't sure that they'd meet the Wikipedia notability guidelines given that they're an underground band. But I did some research and found several entries to other bands who play similar music or operate in DIY scenes, some of whom have arguably less achievements behind them, and believed that this meant the band would be eligible for submission. The main example I used was Narcosis, as I saw this band play with Krupskaya before -

I tried to ensure the information I submitted was well cited, but I am struggling to see what my submission lacks that the above entry does correctly?

I absolutely want to make sure this submission is as valid and close to perfection as I can acheive, so if there is any advice you could please provide in regards to the above, I'd very much appreciate it.

Thanks, have a great weekend

Tumpkin (talk) 18:10, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

@Tumpkin: I understand your confusion. A significant proportion of Wikipedia articles don't themselves meet our criteria so you can't point to these as examples for inclusion. It used to be that anyone could create a new article with no review, which is why you see stuff like that. I've nominated Narcosis (UK band) for deletion, accordingly.
There are a couple things in play. To have this article accepted, it has to meet general notability criteria or our notability criteria for bands. The criteria for bands has a few qualifications; having a certified gold record or charting are typically the best way to be accepted. Your submission has only one reliable source, which is the BBC article. I haven't read it so I'm only assuming it actually substantiates what the submission claims. If Krupskaya was also mentioned in Rolling Stone, Revolver, or the like that would help general notability.
The lesser issue is sourcing. Ideally you only include text that is backed-up by reliable sources. Right now you need to make the case for notability. If you cut out your un-reliable sources and their text it would make the submission cleaner but it would also reduce the content to a single sentence. I wouldn't worry about this issue right now and I'd stick to the notability issue.
Thanks you, I plan to enjoy my weekend. Today is a beautiful day to be free of the Crown. I hope you enjoy your weekend, as well. Consider joining a Wiknic in your area this weekend. Chris Troutman (talk) 19:07, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:The Shock Doctrine[edit]

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Finished with my CVUA assignment. Mind checking it over? A2 15:38, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Don't get impatient. I've assigned a new block of instruction, but you have a couple more assignments to finish. Look at every yellow mark and see if I'm asking something more of you before you move on. Also, I included a good deal of text explanations without asking a bunch of questions. Be certain you read all of that because it will become important later. Chris Troutman (talk) 22:32, 5 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi there. I was wondering if I successfully finish CVUA do you think I could become a trainer there as well? What are the requirements? Thanks. A2 06:23, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
I don't see any hard-and-fast criteria to be a CVUA trainer, but I oppose any student being an instructor as soon as they graduate. No one would accept someone that just got a license to ride a motorcycle teaching others how to ride. No one would accept a brand-new doctor teaching med students. Instructors are expected to be experienced enough to conduct the course and answer questions.
Even upon graduation you will not be ready, in my opinion. I graduated CVUA more than a year ago and you're one of my first students. I'd recommend you wait at least a year or two before you become a trainer. If you like, ask at the CVUA talk page to get a second opinion. Chris Troutman (talk) 20:07, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I will look into this later. A2 20:10, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: User:Abrightly[edit]

Hello Chris troutman. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of User:Abrightly, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: WP:U5 does not apply because author has made many edits outside of userspace. Thank you. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 01:06, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Contributions welcome[edit]

Your input concerning a repeated incident by another user at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard would be appreciated. Cheers. LRD NO (talk) 01:03, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

As per previous suggestion, discussion is now opened at WP:ANI. Thank you. LRD NO (talk) 06:39, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Pages for Speedy Deletion[edit]

Hi there.

I have been working on tagging pages for deletion but can't seem to find any. Do I just have to look harder? Is there a place or page that can help me find pages for speedy deletion? I have marked pages for deletion in the past using Twinkle through Special:NewPagesFeed. Thanks. A2 14:45, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

You can use the diffs from previous CSD nominations, just be sure they're correct nominations. That said, it's not necessarily an easy thing to hunt for. Most of the pages I nom for CSD are the user pages because of WP:NOTWEBHOST. These will be users with maybe less than 25 total edits, all to their user page. Since you're using Twinkle, I recommend you consider enabling your CSD log. Chris Troutman (talk) 17:04, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

Editor Review[edit]

You did an editor review on me, of which I've just been notified by a tick with your name - thanks for taking the time to do this, although I didn't request it. Where can I see it? Constructive criticism is always helpful as one learns. Sorry if this seems like a dumb question, but I've been looking, and can't find it. AdventurousMe (talk) 06:09, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

@AdventurousMe: I'm sorry; you've misunderstood. I marked your user page as patrolled since you created it and it hadn't been checked earlier. This sort of check is done on new pages to prevent the possibility of attack pages or other egregious vandalism. In any case, Wikipedia no longer has an editor review project due to problems administering it.
Because you've asked, I took a look at your edit history: I like what you're doing. Since you're new, especially, it's a good idea of engaging on talk pages in the course of being bold. Adding citations is a great thing to be doing on wiki. Based on this, I think you would do well at the Guild of Copy Editors and/or WikiProject Unreferenced articles. I recommend every user join a WikiProject to become better connected to the larger Wikipedia community. There are many WikiProjects and different maintenance tasks you can get involved with. Wikipedia also has sister projects like Wikidata, Wikiquote, and many others not to mention Wikipedia in other languages. You might also benefit from the Feedback Request Service. Editors facing an a issue about article content will post a "Request for Comment" (RfC). Joining the service will result in notifications to your talk page about these RfCs. You'll have an opportunity to register an opinion on these questions and you'll be exposed to a variety of articles, editor behavior, and applicable policies/guidelines. If you have any other questions, please ask. Chris Troutman (talk) 07:05, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks very much indeed! I'll make time to implement this, and try and engage more seriously with the community as you suggest. AdventurousMe (talk) 01:55, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Alonzo Davis[edit]

Symbol question.svg Hello! Your submission of Alonzo Davis at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! czar  15:11, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Talk pages[edit]

Thanks for your contributions, you've been doing a good job at writing and sourcing articles.

Talk:Len Forkas was fine, although {{talkheader}} shouldn't be added to those talk pages where there is no discussion, like you did on Talk:Gabe Zichermann, check WP:TALK#CREATE. Feel free to remove it or let me know your reason. OccultZone (TalkContributionsLog) 14:58, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done My mistake. Chris Troutman (talk) 17:32, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Germany[edit]

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Disambiguation link notification for July 13[edit]

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Proposal re June BED[edit]

There is a proposal at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/June_2014_Backlog_Elimination_Drive#We_need_a_conclusion that merits your consideration Fiddle Faddle 16:48, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

CVUA Final[edit]


I will not be able to be online here on Wikipedia from the 23rd to the 1st or so of August. Push my final test back if needed. Thanks. A2 23:58, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Your test is scheduled for Wednesday the 16th and it won't take that long for you to finish, so you'll have it done well before your wikibreak on the 23rd. Thanks for letting me know.
Also, remember the difference between disruptive usernames that get reported to UAA and problematic usernames that you could discuss on a talk page and address at CHU. I'm all about chasing off ne'er-do-well's but you want to avoid being needlessly BITEy. Chris Troutman (talk) 00:12, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
Today is my final? A2 15:04, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
It's posted now. Good luck. Chris Troutman (talk) 19:54, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi there. I am having trouble reporting another user to AIV or ANI. Should I just eat the question and not take any points for it? I reported 1 user already... Thanks. A2 05:14, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
@Akifumii: Consider it eaten. You've graduated the program at 85.07% overall. I am pleased you decided to return to CVUA to complete it. I hope you continue to find the education useful. Wikipedia makes a lot of tools and functions available to the common editor but it behooves each of us to know how to use them. Wikipedia is a big place and I hope you find the right niches to fit in. Chris Troutman (talk) 05:56, 18 July 2014 (UTC)
Thanks so much! I appreciate your work with me. I have added you to my userpage as in thanks. I have also added myself as a graduate from CVUA on the CVUA page. Thanks again! A2 14:53, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

07:46:42, 15 July 2014 review of submission by Olamikhx[edit]

Thanks for your review of my articles. I read that the article was declined because of Copyright violation. Can you please help me identify which part of the article is copyrighted. I have re-edit the article before the last submission and strive to provide citation to all the sources I used.

Sorry for the way I put my question, I'm just a beginner in this regard. Olamikhx (talk) 07:46, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

@Olamikhx: Sadly, I can't answer that question because the draft has since been deleted. I found portions of text copied directly from and Wikipedia assumes copyright is asserted by the content holders, even if it's not explicitly claimed. Not only is this evidence of copyright violation, it's intellectually dishonest.
You've noticed, I'm sure, that I answered your question at the AfC help desk. Wikipedia can be very technical and it's not a place for newcomers. I would recommend before attempting to re-create this article, you find journalistic sources that discuss the subject. If you base your content on independent sources your resulting draft should read neutrally. Chris Troutman (talk) 15:17, 15 July 2014 (UTC)


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Hello, Chris troutman. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Karen Lindsey.
Message added 06:49, 17 July 2014 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

I've userfied the article to User:Chris troutman/Karen Lindsey. Callanecc (talkcontribslogs) 06:49, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

DYK for James Brown (Elvis impersonator)[edit]

Gatoclass (talk) 05:41, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Alonzo Davis[edit]

Gatoclass (talk) 05:37, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Israeli–Palestinian conflict[edit]

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You must remove dougweller's admin tool. However, will you be the next checkuser. (talk) 17:33, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

@ You are new here so I'll try to make this simple. I can't "remove admin tools". Please read the instructions to have admin tools taken away. That said, don't waste our time. I have reported you for edit warring and Dougweller was absolutely justified in their actions. Furthermore, the last thing you should want is for me to be a checkuser. Chris Troutman (talk) 17:45, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Richard Pine[edit]

Can you look over this article that has now been accepted; Richard Pine? I've added referenced citations, more specific categories and more information on 'notability'. Suggest improvements? Simon Baddeley (talk) 12:47, 23 July 2014 (UTC)

@Sibadd: Per WP:SPS, you'll need to remove the 1989 letter to Pine (both the image and the citation). Per WP:EL, I'd convert all those external links in the bibliography section into references. You shouldn't have any external links in the body of the article. In some cases you have explanatory notes like "Published in a limited edition..." and "Now the Centre for ..." that should be expressed with {{notelist}} instead of in the reflist. I'm a proponent of infoboxes. You don't have to use one; some Wikipedians hate them. For this article you could use {{Infobox person}}. You could also set-off the quote from Seamus Heaney with blockquote or {{Quote box}}. Chris Troutman (talk) 17:07, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi Chris. That all makes sense with one exception, which you may be able to sort for me, directly or indirectly. The complimentary letter from Seamus Heaney belongs to the subject and I have had sight of it and permission to quote the letter from the poet's estate. How else can thus important evidence - letter from a Nobel prize winning poet - of the subject's notability as a writer be cited than by reference to images of the letter in Wikimedia? I don't think the letter should be in a box in the main article, but its availability as evidence that can be checked by someone reading the article seems to me quite essential. if I have misunderstood you and you are not saying 'remove' the letter but instead have it accessed by readers of the article in a different way, then please accept my apologies. Other editors have reviewed the article and helped make improvements. One gave me the idea of how to cite the letter i.e. scan it into Wikimedia, with the late author's address modified for privacy (Seamus Heaney's widow still lives there). Please clarify. Regards, Simon Baddeley (talk) 19:28, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
@Sibadd: What you're describing is prohibited as original research. Because Wikipedia is a tertiary source written by dilettantes, we can only cobble together coverage from reliable sources. Wikipedia editors are not empowered to come to their own conclusions and therefore disallowed from primary source analysis. Images on Wikipedia are meant to be pretty, to illustrate a subject. Images are not to be used as source material. What's worse, the letter is a self-published source. If the image were from a museum, an educational institution, or a periodical it might be allowable although still not so useful. As it is, you present this letter and we have only your word to take for it.
Absolutely remove the letter. If this is something you want to write based on primary sources I suggest you find an academic journal that will accept your manuscript. You might even be able to talk your local newspaper into publishing it. Here on Wikipedia, this is not done. Chris Troutman (talk) 21:43, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi Chris. I disagree that a personal letter only become suitable for citation in Wiki when it's published in an academic paper or referred to in a newspaper. As a researcher and writer - BA (Cantab) MA (Michigan) - I know there's greater ambiguity between primary and secondary sources than a scrupulous interpretation of Wikipedia's rule on this allow. As you will know from the differing editorial positions of just two editors when it came to my submission on Aristeidis Metallinos, any one editorial position is usually contested; certainly debatable. The writing of the Nobel poet, including his letter to Richard Pine, is almost certainly a secondary source as part of Heaney's literary estate, which treats the poet's correspondence with Pine and others as in the public domain. That's how I have permission to publish and quote from the letter you argue ought to be removed. Furthermore part of this letter is indubitably not, even by your criteria, a primary source. Seamus Heaney, before his death under a year ago, permitted Pine's publishers at the time Pine's latest book was in proof, to use a quote from the letter that concerns you, changing it to a third person quote i.e. “Pine’s strength as a commentator comes from his meditative, associative, habit of mind. His readings constantly deepen our sense of complexity and modernity.” If you detect a crispness in this reply, do not mistake it for regretting I drew the entry to your attention. You would no doubt have come across it anyway. I initiated this discussion by asking your opinion. Wikipedia has rehearsed the relationship between 'notability' and 'celebrity' on many occasions. It's a lively debate with Wikipedia tending to give higher attention to 'celebrity' - a condition with notoriously disproportionate opportunity for public citation - than to equally deserved 'notability' which passes below the limelight of secondary sources. I am not suggesting a relaxation of the rules surrounding the need to establish notability. Unquestioning observance of rules Jimmy Wales and many other editors say should be tested in 'talk' helps create this bias towards people 'famous for being famous'. As an example of a kinder editorial opinion I quote another editor I asked to review the same article - his talk page: QUOTE Could it be improved? Almost always, but I suggest you act as the father, not the mother. It will, at some point, be edited by someone else. Notice when that happens and consider whether that edit has improved it. It probably will have, even if you disagree with the edit. Nod sagely and move on to your next project. Your job as father is done. Fiddle Faddle 12:47, 23 July 2014 (UTC) END. Simon Baddeley (talk) 22:54, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
You asked for my suggestions; I replied. If you don't want the facts don't ask for them. Obviously, you are way out of your depth. I find it sad that someone whom claims to have degrees resorts to a website to publish their thoughts. If you can't contribute according to our norms, take your ball and go home. Chris Troutman (talk) 23:44, 23 July 2014 (UTC)
Chris, Such an intemperate and, frankly rude response is unacceptable. You owe Simon an apology. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:38, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Chris, you have a reputation for speaking bluntly, but I have not seen you behave rudely before. I ask you to consider your words to Simon and make proper overtures to him regarding them and your behaviour in this thread. Even when we have a strongly held opinion we may not express it rudely. Fiddle Faddle 13:56, 24 July 2014 (UTC)