# User talk:Dervorguilla

## Hello

 Hello, Dervorguilla, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} before the question on your talk page. Again, welcome!  --Sallicio$\color{Red} \oplus$ 11:44, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

## Notification: changes to "Mark my edits as minor by default" preference

 Hello there. This is an automated message to tell you about the gradual phasing out of the preference entitled "Mark all edits minor by default", which you currently have enabled. On 13 March 2011, this preference was hidden from the user preferences screen as part of efforts to prevent its accidental misuse (consensus discussion). This had the effect of locking users in to their existing preference, which, in your case, was true. To complete the process, your preference will automatically be changed to false in the next few days. This does not require any intervention on your part and you will still be able to manually mark your edits as being 'minor'. The only thing that's changed is that you will no longer be able to have them marked as minor by default. For more information on what a minor edit is, see WP:MINOR or feel to get in touch. Thank you for your understanding and happy editing :) Editing on behalf of User:Jarry1250, LivingBot (talk) 22:44, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

## MIT Crime Club

This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a search with the contents of MIT Crime Club, and it appears to be very similar to another Wikipedia page: "MIT Crime Club". It is possible that you have accidentally duplicated contents, or made an error while creating the page— you might want to look at the pages and see if that is the case. If you are intentionally trying to rename an article, please see Help:Moving a page for instructions on how to do this without copying and pasting. If you are trying to move or copy content from one article to a different one, please see Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia and be sure you have acknowledged the duplication of material in an edit summary to preserve attribution history.

It is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article. CorenSearchBot (talk) 18:29, 2 January 2012 (UTC)}}

## Speedy deletion nomination of MIT Crime Club

A tag has been placed on MIT Crime Club requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about an organization or company, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 18:49, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

## Nomination of MIT Crime Club for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article MIT Crime Club is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/MIT Crime Club until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on good quality evidence, and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. Daemonic Kangaroo (talk) 19:13, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

## January 2012

Hello Dervorguilla. We welcome your contributions to Wikipedia, but if you are affiliated with some of the people, places or things you have written about in the article MIT Crime Club, you may have a conflict of interest or close connection to the subject.

All editors are required to comply with Wikipedia's neutral point of view content policy. People who are very close to a subject often have a distorted view of it, which may cause them to inadvertently edit in ways that make the article either too flattering or too disparaging. People with a close connection to a subject are not absolutely prohibited from editing about that subject, but they need to be especially careful about following the reliable sources and writing with as little bias as possible.

If you are very close to a subject, here are some ways you can reduce the risk of problems:

• Avoid or exercise great caution when editing or creating articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with.
• Be cautious about deletion discussions. Everyone is welcome to provide information about independent sources in deletion discussions, but avoid advocating for deletion of articles about your competitors.
• Avoid linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Wikipedia:Spam).
• Exercise great caution so that you do not accidentally breach Wikipedia's content policies.

Please familiarize yourself with relevant content policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, verifiability of information, and autobiographies.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have a conflict of interest, please see our frequently asked questions for organizations. Thank you. Best regards, Cind.amuse (Cindy) 23:31, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Good points, Cindamuse.  I think you can understand why I took pains to include the most relevant information in my User Page.

Special Interests
…
• MIT Crime Club (past member & project-team advisor)
Full Disclosure of Interests
I declare that neither I nor any member of my immediate family has a significant financial interest in any … entity discussed in my edits or in any competing … entity.

The Club’s activities have been reported on at length by the Boston Globe, Boston Herald, Boston Magazine, and PI Magazine.
I have no current affiliation with the Club.  And I don’t attend its meetings.  I do seem to have a relatively encyclopedic knowledge of the “factual information [in] third-party articles” about the group.
If the articles are authoritative and the information is factual, should it get published?  --Dervorguilla (talk) 18:31, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

## Acknowledgment of COI

I do have a real or seeming COI:  I’m a past member and advisor of the group, and I’ve sponsored projects led by other members.  Fargen (June 2009) and Schwartz (Sept. 2009) have identified me as “one leader of the group” and as “the club’s ringleader these days.”  (The information is no longer current; I haven’t been a leader since Jan. 2010.)

In accordance with WP:COI I’m going to (a) submit a proposed edit for review on the article’s talk page along with a Request edit or (b) file a request for comment.  I’ll be doing so for one year or, if appropriate, indefinitely.  (The policy does not apply to noncontroversial edits.)  --Dervorguilla (talk) 19:58, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

## Your input is needed on the SOPA initiative

 Hi Dervorguilla, You are receiving this message either because you expressed an opinion about the proposed SOPA blackout before full blackout and soft blackout were adequately differentiated, or because you expressed general support without specifying a preference. Please ensure that your voice is heard by clarifying your position accordingly. Thank you. Message delivered as per request on ANI. -- The Helpful Bot 16:28, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

## Swartz primary documents

 Hey Dervorguilla. While I agree that WP:BLPPRIMARY is unlikely relevant to the police investigation into Swartz, WP:PRIMARY still suggests using primary documents with care and relying on secondary sources preferentially. I was thinking a source such as this could be a better fit: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/21/technology/how-mit-ensnared-a-hacker-bucking-a-freewheeling-culture.html Also, do you think the MIT police report as part of the court case is considered a published document, as required for all sources including primary ones? Curious to hear your thoughts, Cheers, Ocaasi t | c 01:36, 22 January 2013 (UTC) A guide here is WP:Published. It's not guideline/policy but still might be insightful. My general preference is still to rely on secondary sources wherever possible, but this has nonetheless gotten me thinking. Maybe we should ask for some feedback at the article talk page. Cheers, Ocaasi t | c 19:26, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

## Swartz deletions

Would you please reply to the concerns I've expressed here? Thanks. David in DC (talk) 01:39, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

## Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aaron Schwartz (2nd nomination)

Can you please explain what you are trying to do with the article Aaron Schwartz? If you don't believe that Schwartz played a Czech officer in a movie when he was 4 years old, and a forensic pathologist when he was 6 years old (and I don't believe that, either), then why did you add that information to the article? [1] [2] --Metropolitan90 (talk) 21:06, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Your recent editing history at Aaron Swartz shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. Yworo (talk) 22:33, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

## Intentionally adding misinformation to articles and knowingly misusing sources

These are both grounds for immediate blocking. You know that don't you? Do it again, and I'll take it to WP:ANI. Yworo (talk) 23:02, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Yworo (talk) 00:08, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

## February 2013

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours for edit warring, as you did at Aaron Schwartz. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding below this notice the text {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first.

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.  Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:46, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

This blocked user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy). Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Request reason:

1. I performed one two reverts or restores. WP:3RR
2. The material I restored was taken from ref 1 of 1 in the Aaron Schwartz BLP.
3. All other material in the BLP was taken from the same ref 1 of 1.
4. The material was not contentious.
5. I was a minor contributor to the Blackout page (see User:Dervorguilla) and have been the leading contributor to the Aaron Swartz BDP.
6. The block proposal may have been caused to be made by a person who has a financial interest that could be significantly harmed by my ongoing contribution to the BDP. WP:BLOCK#NOTPUNITIVE
Dervorguilla (talk) 02:23, 17 February 2013 (UTC) Dervorguilla (talk) 06:24, 17 February 2013 (UTC) ((“one revert or restore” –> “two reverts or restores,” in accord with Bbb23’s first point, below))

Decline reason:

You reverted more than once; read the policy more carefully. The material was contentious. Personal attacks are not a good idea in an unblock request. Your editing was disruptive. Bbb23 (talk) 02:33, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first and then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page for as long as you are blocked.

Because of Devorguilla's change of their unblock request after my decline, in my view Devorguilla reverted four times in the article. I make this point for Devorguilla's benefit; again, they would do well to read very carefully the WP:3RR policy and, in particular, what constitutes a revert.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:43, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

This blocked user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy). Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Request reason:

In Bbb23’s comment, he graciously acknowledges that when he issued his Unblock Request Decline, his view was that Dervorguilla had not yet reverted four times.  He recommends that Dervorguilla carefully read the 3RR policy.  She’s done so, and it directly supports his point that she hadn’t reverted four times.

Administrators are now asked to grant Dervorguilla’s third Unblock Appeal, based in part on the new evidence.
___

The three-revert rule. WP:3RR. A “revert” means any edit that reverses the actions of other editors, in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material.  It can involve as little as one word.…  3RR exemptions. WP:3RRNO. The following actions are not counted as reverts for the purposes of 3RR: … removal of … poorly sourced contentious material that violates the policy on biographies of living persons.

Still more background material:

I. According to the Aaron Schwartz:Revision History, user Dervorguilla made only four (4) edits in all.

II. The third edit isn’t a revert.  It doesn’t remove any words, nor does it restore any that had been removed.  (4 − 1 = 3 edits.)

III. The first edit removes poorly sourced contentious material from the biography of a living person.  It doesn’t remove sourced material.  (3 − 1 = 2 revert edits.)

− “Occupation: Actor
→ “Occupation: former Film Actor; Location Assistant”
− “Years active: 1989–present”
→ "Years active: 1985–present”
− “an American actor who is best known”
→ “a former film actor best known”
− “In addition to his two film roles, Aaron played Clem Lanell in eight episodes of The Adventures of Pete & Pete, and appeared in one episode of The Cosby Show. He has a recurring role on the CW’s Gossip Girl as the doorman, Vanya.[1]”
1. ^ Aaron Schwartz Filmography - Yahoo! Movies [corrected URL]

-- Dervorguilla (talk) 01:36, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

Decline reason:

You were blocked for edit warring, not for 3RR. --jpgordon::==( o ) 01:38, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first and then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page for as long as you are blocked.

• Also remember that you are not entitled to three reverts; you can be edit-warring, and were, with fewer. - The Bushranger One ping only 01:45, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
• Out of compassion, I'd like to point out that you were blocked for 24 hours at 00:46, 17 February 2013 (UTC) and it is now 01:49, 18 February 2013. Have you tried editing? :-) Yworo (talk) 01:49, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
• In the interest of clarity but particularly editor education, first, I never acknowledged that Dervorguilla did not revert 4x, and in my comment after the decline, I said she had, although I will acknowledge that one of the reverts is hypertechnical (the third) and would probably not be counted as a revert by most admins. Second, I think it's great that she reread 3RR, but her analysis of it is incorrect, in particular with respect to the first edit. Dervorguilla is implicitly invoking the BLP exemption from edit-warring. That's generally a very difficult exemption to use ("What counts as exempt under BLP can be controversial. Consider reporting to the BLP noticeboard instead of relying on this exemption.") and in this case doesn't apply - at least I wouldn't accept it. So, at best, Dervorguilla reverted 3x, and as Bushranger correctly notes, she was blocked for edit-warring, not for breaching 3RR, and she was blocked based on the discussion at WP:ANI, which is why I noted in my decline that her edits were disruptive.--Bbb23 (talk) 02:09, 18 February 2013 (UTC)
• “You can still be blocked for edit warring … should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.”
Dervorguilla begins editing in January ’08.  No behavioral disorders.  Somehow she and David in DC end up at the top of the Frequent Users list at Aaron Swartz, along with HectorMoffet and MarkBernstein.  On January 19 a visitor stops by and immediately goes to 3RR with Nomoskedasticity (who comments: “I prefer not to go to the limit of 3RR as you have, so I won't revert for now.”).
On February 14 the visitor comes back and makes a string of flawless punc/fm edits.  Two days later he reverts MarkBernstein at the top of the page, gets reverted by Dervorguilla, and goes to 3RR again — while warning everyone on the page — twice — that he intends to keep on reverting.  This after Dervorguilla shows him and some other sophisticated editors that the hatnoted stub had been an unexploded bomb (UXB) from day one.
22:19, 16 February 2013‎ Yworo . . (+34)‎ . . (the problem is not with the hatnote, but the article pointed to; don't shoot the messenger, fix the problem)
08:20, 16 February 2013‎ Dervorguilla‎ . . (-34)‎ . . (Undid revision 538517811 by Yworo. REDFLAG, says he began working as an actor at age 4. (In 'Eleni,' as Czech Officer.))
05:30, 16 February 2013‎ Yworo . . (+34)‎ . . (WP:SIMILAR, don't like it? Change Aaron Schwartz or nominate it for deletion; as it stands, a hatnote is correct)
03:50, 16 February 2013‎ Dervorguilla‎ . . (-34)‎ . . (rm 'For the actor, see Aaron Schwartz.' Schwartz isn't an actor. Erroneous BLP, see Talk. Do not revert.)
23:13, 15 February 2013‎ Yworo‎ . . (+33)‎ . . (disagree, commonly confused spellings, recency of addition has no bearing on the usefulness of the hatnote)
23:08, 15 February 2013‎ MarkBernstein‎ . . (-33)‎ . . (Remove disambiguation tag; it was only added recently and it seems unlikely that many people will find it useful)
I’m not giving away any secrets here, folks.  The problem is not with Yworo.  He did get the stub fixed.  It might even end up being more authoritative than the Swartz article.  ;)
Meanwhile could you please explain to me how to get this page rewound?  I’d be much obliged. -- Dervorguilla (talk) 06:26, 18 February 2013 (UTC)

## Keep it up

If you keep up your disruptive editing, I'll be quite happy to get you blocked again. You may want to be aware that the length of block doubles every time. An indefinite block isn't that far away for you. Yworo (talk) 03:05, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

## Ortiz

Where the sub-article is clearly linked, a subsection of the main article is supposed to be a summary of the linked article -- thus I removed all the stuff you added to both articles. Cheers. Collect (talk) 13:11, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

## FWIW

 MarkBernstein" is at "Eastgate Systems" and announced at [3] that his company (Tekka with the same location) was publiching a book by ... Aaron Swartz. (Aaron Swartz, the 17-year-old who has for years been an established expert on metadata and the semantic Web, is writing a book called Small Is Beautiful that will debut here.). Cheers - I think he might conceivable be "involved" in the article. Collect (talk) 11:11, 2 May 2013 (UTC) I believe you’ve helped save MarkBernstein from acting to further damage his own reputation and Wikipedia’s.  --Dervorguilla (talk) 18:05, 2 May 2013 (UTC) I'm busy right now as program chair of ACM Web Science 2013. I think I'll let my reputation take care of itself. I've written about Swartz. My firm published some of his writing. But of course he was an important person in this branch of computer science and had a broad circle of acquaintance; lots of people knew and worked with him. MarkBernstein (talk) 07:53, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

## AN/I notice

Hello. There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. WP:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Improper_use_of_alternate_account David in DC (talk) 02:53, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

## May 2013

You have been blocked from editing for a period of one week for edit warring, as you did at Aaron Swartz. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding below this notice the text {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first.

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.  Bbb23 (talk) 00:57, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

Request reason:

No longer necessary. I understand that I was blocked for (obvious) edit-warring. (Also, shameless baiting of user M.B., who ended up being admonished even though he didn’t intend to get into a war. And I believe him: he’s been contributing for nearly seven years and this was his first admonition.) Accordingly:
1. I shall abstain from reverting content that one or more Talk editors repeatedly restore.
2. I shall abstain from editing the Swartz page for ten days. Sysop Ocaasi has pointed out to me that “where there is noise there is nonsense” (22 May 2013 19:36).
Silence now reigns there; and it may be maintained for some time. On 21 May 2013 22:23, a regrettable incident occurred at my alternate account Talk. I accordingly believe that there will be no need for the contributing editor or me to make any further unsolicited remarks to or about each other on mainspace, Talk, User Talk, or elsewhere, in perpetuity.
An affirmative step I can take to keep the issue from happening again:
3. I can learn about RfCs.
I’d like to begin by making a contribution to the RfC, Should website names be italicized?:
CMOS (2010) says, “General titles of websites are normally set in roman. Some websites share the name of a printed counterpart, and others (such as Wikipedia) are analogous to one of the types of works discussed elsewhere; these titles should be styled accordingly. ‘IMDb’, [but] ‘Encyclopaedia Britannica Online’, ‘Wikipedia’; ‘NYTimes.com’, [but] ‘the New York Times online’. Titles of named blogs, like the titles of periodicals, should be italicized: ‘The Becker-Posner Blog’.” (Interesting analogy!) The new APA Style Guide to Electronic References (2012) sets the names of websites and blogs in roman: “‘Facebook’, ‘the APA Style website’, ‘the APA Style Blog’”. Wikipedia falls in the “books” category: “Books … and Reference Books. This category also includes … reference works that are available online: … [Ex.] 24. Entry in Wikipedia: ‘Psychology. (n.d.). In Wikipedia. Retrieved May 17, 2011, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology’. Wikipedia is italicized because it is the name of a reference work. [Ex.] 25. Archived entry in Wikipedia: ‘Psychology. (2011, February 15). In Wikipedia. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Psychology&oldid=413979409’. … [Ex.] 75. Facebook page or note: ‘Federal Emergency Management Agency. (ca. 2011). Fire safety …’”

--Dervorguilla (talk) 08:46, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Accept reason:

I shall unblock you based on the above promises and acknowledgments. Please bear in mind that if you violate any of the promises you've made, you may be blocked by me or any other admin without notice. Bbb23 (talk) 00:24, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Unblocking administrator: Please check for active autoblocks on this user after accepting the unblock request.

## Apology and explanation

I chose the worst possible way to try to help you in a totally unrelated matter. I apologize. Please review my interaction with the admin you contacted here. here. David in DC (talk) 17:54, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

## Leaked email settles Silverglate/Keker dispute, ends Talk war

 Message-ID: From: Henriette Campagne To: "dervorguilla-w@yahoo.com" Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 3:55 PM Subject: RE: Did MLW publish a front-page story about Swartz? You may be referring to the page 1 story we published in the 2/18 issue, “Ortiz under fire: Critics say Swartz tragedy evidence of troublesome pattern at USAO” I don’t believe we’ve written any other page 1 news stories specifically on the Swartz case. Henriette From: dervorguilla-w@yahoo.com Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 3:45 PM To: Henriette Campagne Subject: Did MLW publish a front-page story about Swartz? Dear Ms. Campagne: I'm an occasional reader of your magazine.  I'm writing to request information about a front-page story on Aaron Swartz that may have appeared not longer after the Silverglate column ran (issue 23).  Do you recall whether MLW did publish such a story? Sincerely, Dervorguilla W. Cambridge, Mass. ________________________________ E-mail from Henriette Campagne, Editor, Mass. Law. Wkly., to Dervorguilla W. (May 31, 3013, 15:55 EDT). --Dervorguilla (talk) 02:15, 1 June 2013 (UTC) For interested editors only. --Dervorguilla (talk) 03:03, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

## Aaron Swartz

 I thought I'd give you a heads up that I tweaked Aaron Schwartz. I wasn't sure what you meant by your question, if you just wanted to know what the columns were technically or if you were being protective of the article? --Widefox (talk) 09:56, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

## plip!

Plip!

For not closing your <small> tag and shrinking half a page's worth of text. I think you may have been right about needing a break. Jackmcbarn (talk) 01:51, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

## Edit warring at Aaron Swartz

Again. 8-( Andy Dingley (talk) 12:14, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

## Thanks

It was lovely to see you this weekend. Thank you for all of your efforts on the Aaron Swartz article, and the backhistory w/ the MIT police. (Are those docs appropriate for wikisource?) And thank you for sharing and working with us at the hackathon. I'm sorry I didn't have time to sit down and go over the article; unsurprising that it is still controversial. Ideally we would sync the tl;dr and timeline with the public articles, though they aren't in themselves citable.

Warm regards, – SJ + 10:27, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

## Disclosure request

 Evidence indicating that the General Body or Executive Board voted to derecognize the group can be disclosed at Talk:MIT Crime Club. --Dervorguilla (talk) 04:54, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

## Talkback

 Please provide reasoning in your edit summary for an undo - you are free to undo any of my edits but I have no idea why, and reason your 2nd undo with me on the talk page, else it feels a bit WP:OWN. Hope that helps, regards --Widefox (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

## Editing on Right Sector

Hi Dervorguilla, just wanted to thank you for your continued work at Right Sector. There hasn't been enough written yet by various mainstream/academic sources (it being a recent phenomenon), but you've done a great job making the article more professional! -Darouet (talk) 14:29, 16 March 2014 (UTC)

As have you, Darouet!
What would you say to an RfC on the “neofascist views” question? Or to a new (sub)section that illustrates both the historical and the more current descriptions of the group in the press?
(For brevity, should we limit it to high-circulation periodicals?)
As I’ve said, you’re welcome to go beyond 3RR on reverting my edits, since I make so many of them and you’re usually the first one to spot the errors! Perhaps we should both make even more edits – but smaller ones. (So as to keep from vexing our readers.) --Dervorguilla (talk) 09:19, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

## Removing mainstream "neofascist" views description from Right Sector?

Hi Dervorguilla, in this edit you removed text and sources from the lead stating that Right Sector's political views are described as neo-fascist. This is despite the fact that we had a long discussion here on the talk page about it, to which you contributed, before arriving at a version we were all happy with. Previous versions included commentary from Die Welt, Le Monde Diplomatique, and Time (magazine) in addition to other sources like The Nation and The Guardian. In this edit you remove one on the basis of WP:CITEKILL while simultaneously noting that the view is a major one and therefore should be accorded WP:DUE weight. I think you should return the description to the lead citing major European papers, or otherwise explain your change on the talk page. -Darouet (talk) 19:32, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

An extremely important point, Darouet! :) Coming up, an explanation AND a two new relevant subsections on the article page. --Dervorguilla (talk) 03:34, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
The Time article’s still in the text! Simon Shuster, “Exclusive: Leader of Far-Right Ukrainian Militant Group Talks Revolution with TIME,” Time, February 4, 2014 (“Dmitro Yarosh, leader of the far-right militant group Pravy Sektor, says…”). --Dervorguilla (talk) 03:47, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
Luhn, the author of the article in The Nation, appears to have stopped suggesting that the group is neo-Nazi or neofascist. He’s now calling it a “Ukrainian ultranationalist paramilitary group.” (As does the subject group itself.) --Dervorguilla (talk) 09:39, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
Le Monde Diplomatique “is a journal of opinion,” not fact. So says Le Monde. --Dervorguilla (talk) 08:13, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
Haaretz has a paid circulation of 130,000 in Israel and maybe 15,000 in the US so it’s not a “major publication” in terms of size or extent. It’s the newspaper of record in Israel, so it’s a major publication in Israel. It does not appear to have had any correspondents in Kiev. Also, the accuracy of the cited article has been questioned. --Dervorguilla (talk) 08:30, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
The most current Guardian article calls it a “far-right Ukrainian nationalist group.” The authors also mention an incident where two Sektor boys were shot to death by pro-Russia demonstrators. Something to do with a “well-planned provocation by pro-Russian activists.” --Dervorguilla (talk) 07:52, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
Check this: “Under the Guise of ‘the Right Sector’ Is Being Prepared a Provocation near the Verkhovna Rada,” Pravyy Sektor, March 31, 2014, 19:02. “Reliable sources received information that provocations by youths claiming to be members of our movement are being prepared for tomorrow morning outside the Verkhovna Rada and the Cabinet. There is evidence that these impostors [are] in fact Russian ‘guardsmen’, members of radical organizations [that] operate freely in Russia.” --Dervorguilla (talk) 09:01, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
That's a statement from Right Sector itself, and might be true, or might not be. I wouldn't be surprised either way.
You're quite right about TIME: my mistake. As to Le Monde Diplomatique however, I spent a year in France, and it's my understanding that it's one of the most highly respected political journals not only in France but throughout all of Europe. I could be wrong though and I'll ask about it at WP:RSN. -Darouet (talk) 15:58, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
Actually, it seems that the TIME quote was changed, so that now it says nothing relevant to the article. The original quote, which can be found online, refers to Right Sector's politics as quasi-fascist. I hope it wasn't you who changed it? -Darouet (talk) 20:21, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
We agree, my dear Darouet, that the source in question (Le Monde Diplomatique) is indeed an RS and a highly respected mainstream publication. But is it a “major” publication compared with the six others listed? Meaning, is it as great in size, extent, or importance?
From Dictionary.com:
“major”
[def. 1.] Greater in size, extent, or importance.
Synonyms
The adjectives capital, chief, major, principal apply to a main or leading representative of a kind.… Major may refer to greatness of importance, number, or quantity.
Would LMD even seek to be as great in size, extent of circulation, or importance (consequence) as the Russian News & Information Agency, Agence Press France, the Guardian, BBC News, Reuters, Time, or the Associated Press? Or would it prefer to be greater in quality?
Some identified major publications (at NEWSORG):
Most newspapers reprint items from news agencies such as BBC News, Reuters, Agence France-Presse, or the Associated Press….
Journalistic entities known to have good fact-checking operations
Der Spiegel, the New Yorker, Time, and the Economist (book-review section).
One must also inquire as to whether the cited article is an ‘analysis’ (NEWSORG again):
News organizations
"News reporting" from well-established news outlets is generally considered to be reliable for statements of fact…. Analysis [articles] … are reliable primary sources for statements attributed to that … author but are rarely reliable for statements of fact.
--Dervorguilla (talk) 09:00, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
It seems quite clear that Le Monde Diplomatique is a major journal and reliable source, comparable perhaps to the American journal Foreign Policy. It's published under the aegis of Le Monde, one of the world's great news organization, and its editorial reputation seems clearly to be high. Clearly, if the notorious Time is a major, reliable source for foreign policy, Le Monde Diplomatique clears the bar. In context, it is a much weightier source than Time. MarkBernstein (talk) 15:43, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
We agree, MarkBernstein, that Le Diplo eclipses Time in the weight and quality of the analysis it offers. Could you edit NEWSORG so that it pemits analysis to be considered reliable as a source for a statement of fact? Many thanks. --Dervorguilla (talk) 00:19, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
no edit is needed. Just as an characterization n in Kennan's famous Containment article in Foreign Policy cam be relied upon, there is no bar to relying on an this --especially as there seems no reason for doubt. MarkBernstein (talk) 12:13, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
Would you agree, MarkBernstein, that Time is greater in global ‘size’ than Le Diplo by 3,200,000 to perhaps 300,000? And in ‘extent’ as measured by number of reporters on site? And that the Guardian — one of the cited “major publications” — now calls the subject group “ultranationalist” or “far right nationalist” rather than “neofascist”? --Dervorguilla (talk) 02:08, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Christine Haughney, “Magazine Newsstand Sales Plummet, but Digital Editions Thrive,” New York Times, August 6, 2013:
Time’s [total] subscriptions rose … to 3,240,000.
Dylan Byers, “Time Magazine Still on Top in Circulation”, Politico, August 7, 2012:
The Audit Bureau of Circulations released … a list of the top 25 magazines by paid and verified circulation.… Time stands alone as the one magazine dedicated even in part to political coverage.
Andrew Beaujon, “New York Times Passes USA Today in Daily Circulation,” Poynter, April 30, 2013:
Newspaper Name: Total Average Circulation
Wall Street Journal: 2,380,000
New York Times: 1,870,000
USA Today: 1,670,000
Los Angeles Times: 650,000
Emma Knight, “Steady Circulation Figures Disguise Rising Weight of Digital Subscriptions in U.S. Newspaper Industry”, World Association of Newspapers & News Publishers, October 31, 2012:
When print and digital are combined, the Journal rises to the top … as the country’s most widely circulated daily newspaper, with an overall average circulation of nearly 2.3 million…. Across the pond, digital subscriptions at the paywall-protected Financial Times … outpaced its print circulation … and have now reached 310,000.
“Presse Payante Grand Public - Presse Quotidienne Nationale - Actualités - Actualités Générales,” Mon Classement Presse, OJD (2013):
National Daily Press, News, General News
Dissemination or distribution total
Le Figaro: 330,000
Le Monde: 300,000
“Presse Payante Grand Public - Presse Magazine - Actualités - Actualités Générales,” Mon Classement Presse, OJD (2013):
Press Magazine, News, General News
Dissemination or distribution total
Paris Match: 630,000
Le Figaro Magazine: 430,000
I Comme Info: 300,000
M Le Magazine du Monde: 260,000
Le Monde Diplomatique: 140,000
--Dervorguilla (talk) 05:48, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
Identifying reliable sources is not a matter of figuring out total circulation. For instance, the British tabloid National Enquirer has a distribution equivalent to the newspaper The Daily Telegraph, and 5-10 times that of The Independent, even though both latter newspapers are regarded as high quality sources, and the first is not at all.
If one don't recognize a paper as either authoritative or not on the basis of one's experience with the news more generally, a good way to check on Wikipedia's view is to look on the reliable source noticeboard, where editors frequently ask about sources. There, you'll see that Le Monde Diplomatique is regarded as one of the highest quality publications in the world. -Darouet (talk) 14:50, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
You're right to point up the "circulation ≠ quality" issue, Darouet. It appears you're not the only one who's interested in the distinction. In the UK, the circulation-auditing agency divides newspapers into three classes: "popular" (tabloids); intermediate; and "quality". And the 5 biggest popular newspapers happen to have more paid subscriptions than the 5 biggest quality newspapers. So the term "major newspaper" could be arbitrarily limited to the 1 or 2 biggest quality newspapers.
The good news is that two of the three biggest (and sketchiest) tabloids were recently closed down. So the quality newspapers may be climbing the charts! --Dervorguilla (talk) 03:00, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

## Shuster quote

Hi Dervorguilla, this is already available on Right Sector and Talk:Right Sector, but here's the full paragraph from the Shuster article, found with this link:

In any kind of fair election, that would be nearly impossible. Pravy Sektor’s ideology borders on fascism, and it enjoys support only from Ukraine’s most hard-line nationalists, a group too small to secure them a place in parliament. But taking part in the democratic process is not part of Yarosh’s strategy. “We are not politicians,” he says in his office, a pack of Lucky Strikes and a walkie-talkie on the table in front of him, while a sentry in a black ski mask and bulletproof vest stands by the door. “We are soldiers of the national revolution.” His entire adult life has been spent waiting for such a revolution to “steer the country in a new direction, one that would make it truly strong, not dependent on either the West or the East.”

Hope that clears things up. -Darouet (talk) 19:30, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

## Owl Of Accuracy and Integrity

 Owl Of Accuracy and Integrity Awarded for your work at Talk:Right Sector. Balaenoptera musculus (talk) 13:13, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

## Kitten of Courtesy

For [[Talk::Right Sector]]

Balaenoptera musculus (talk) 13:15, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

## Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.

This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help find a resolution. The thread is "Right Sector". Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! EarwigBot operator / talk 21:20, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

## Dispute Resolution for Right Sector

Hi Dervorguilla, I've just opened a dispute resolution case here on the dispute resolution noticeboard. You can see that I lay out my case there. The link I provide allows you to make a statement as well. I hope we can resolve our disagreement. -Darouet (talk) 21:22, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

## Nabak-o-note

I hope that this message finds you well. I have extended the Patriot of Ukraine entry (it turned out that all the mainstream media are using an incorrect term - the "Patriots of Ukraine"), so, please check it out at your free time, since I noticed your interest in the Euromaidan and the Ukrainian radicals. Best, --Nabak (talk) 01:06, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

## Spelling correction on Right Sector

Howdy.

I see you reverted my spelling correction ('Euromaiden'->'Euromaidan') on the article Right Sector with the edit notice "Undid revision 608878640 by Topbanana (talk); many thanks, Topbanana – but I was the one who made the sp mistake, shouldn’t I be the one who has to fix it?". I see also that you later reinstated the change with the edit summary "fix own sp mistake".

It is not necessary to do this. Once you have submitted text to an article, it (spelling and all) no longer 'belongs' to you - anyone can edit it, hopefully futher improving on your own work. Even if all your own contributions are eventually overwritten, your work will always be visible in the article's edit history.

Although in this case my change was a trivial spelling correction, reverting someone else's contributions to an article with the intention of re-submitting them under your own name might be seen as attempting to claim credit for their work. Please be careful when reverting.

- TB (talk) 11:04, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Acknowledged. Thanks for pointing out, TB. --Dervorguilla (talk) 11:14, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

## Did you actually read WP:BLP?

I suggest you actually read WP:BLP and the important basis for BLP, WP:NPOV.

And simply being sourced, does not guarantee inclusion, particularly calling out the incident in a stand alone section. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 02:06, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

## Nabak-o-note

Hope this message finds you well and you are enjoying the summer! Just to let you know that Tryzub (organization) moved its website again, this time to http://banderivec.org.ua/index.php. Best, --Nabak (talk) 02:47, 20 July 2014 (UTC)