User talk:Digwuren/Archive 2

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  1. User talk:Digwuren/Archive 1
  2. User talk:Digwuren/Archive 2

Bulgaria vote[edit]

Might I ask you to put in the word Oppose, just so there's no confusion for the deciding administrator as to how you're voting? Thank you. Biruitorul 21:43, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for pointing it out; somehow, I missed that standard voting customs apply in RMs, even though they're held on talk pages. Digwuren 22:01, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
OK, great. Also, sorry for removing the Ceauşescu information rather abruptly, but it is indeed the case that the Romanian Orthodox Church uses the Revised Julian calendar, on which Christmas is December 25th. I suppose that's not so well-known, and you and K. Lastochka certainly didn't deserve Anonimu's customary personal attacks. Biruitorul 01:30, 14 July 2007 (UTC)


Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/GrazonSlamDiego←T 07:35, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Socks and Feet[edit]

If you are a centipede, then you need many socks and are to be feared, but if you are a millipede then you need even more socks but are innocuous. —SlamDiego←T 12:28, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Taken into account. Digwuren 13:23, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Notability of Pip Utton[edit]

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A {{prod}} template has been added to the article Estophilia, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but the article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice explains why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. ChrisLamb 15:36, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Digwuren, your creation of Estophilia seems to be a clear example of employing WP:Point tactics. I am certain the article will be deleted, as in English such term is almost never used (11 Google hits).
Making WP:Point edits can be fun, but in the end it is quite counterproductive, and it negatively impacts your credibility as a serious Wikipedian. Most people can see right through it, and they don't appreciate it much. Take my friendly advice, and never do things like this in the future. Balcer 19:01, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Digwuren, I did not understand your edit summary when you removed my prod of Estophilia. If I understand your summary correctly, it seems you are dismissing the WP:POINT guideline as being fundamentally incorrect. WP:POINT is very much accepted by the Wikipedia community. If you feel that the creation of Estophilia was not an example of WP:POINT, please clarify, because I did not get that interpretation from your edit summary.
I have created a section on the talk page to discuss this matter. Also note I will probably nominated the article for an AfD discussion soon. --Jaysweet 19:03, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I'm implying that you're reading into Estophilia ideas that are not there. Digwuren 19:06, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

The Barnstar of National Merit[edit]

The Barnstar of National Merit

Barnstar of National Merit.svg The Barnstar of National Merit
For excelent contributions related to Estonia ChrisLamb 16:01, 16 July 2007 (UTC)


Hi. Please avoid commenting at User talk:RJ CG at the time being. Let admins deal w/ that. Otherwise you'd be blocked according to WP:HARASS. Thanks. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 17:16, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

I think you mean 'Note'. :-) Digwuren 17:17, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

To be done[edit]

Bronze Soldier of Tallinn[edit]



To be written.


'Georg Julius von Schultz (Dr. Bertram), 1808-1875. Possibilities and Limitations of Estophilia among the Baltic Germans in the 19th Century', by Johann Gottfried of University of California. Printed in 'Zeitschrift für Ostforschung'. [2]

'1710–1850. The Baltic Landesstaat. Emergence of national consciousness and Estophilia' by Estonica [3]

'F.R. Faehlmanni estofiilia: sihid ja retseptsioon' (Estonian for 'Estophilia of F. R. Faehlmann: goals and reception'), a PhD thesis by Kristi Metste: ERIS entry

How Estonian literary culture was born, by Ea Jansen of Estonian Institute [4]:

The era of the turn of the nineteenth century and its first couple of decades can be termed the epoch of "Estophilia",i.e. Estonian national awareness, and was imbued by the ideas of the Enlightenment.

The History of Estonian People, by Evald Uustalu of University of Michigan [5]:

An Estophil movement believing in the possibility of a native Estonian culture added fuel to the gradually smouldering national feeling.

Crafts and Arts in Estonia, by Estonica: [6]

By the time the Estophile Baltic Germans and later the first Estonian linguists and ethnographers began taking an interest in the old writings of the county people, they were often presented with 'popular' pseudo-interpretations instead of the genuine traditional meanings. Provided the scholars' 'new-way-of-writing' background and their informants' 'old-way-of-writing' background would have allowed for any reciprocal understanding at all.

Notable Estophiles[edit]


  • It may be necessary to point out explicitly that due to the heavy German influence of the period, Estophilia is referred to as 'Estophil movement' even in English by some authors.
  • Estonica lacks an article. It should be created, and pointed out that Tiigrihüpe was among its sponsors.
  • Estonica's content is under a Creative Commons license. Some reuse may be possible.

Interesting piece[edit]

Sorry to see you blocked for so long, especially as your new article seemed different from Estophobia. Ah, well. Meanwhile, this article may interest you, particularly the description of Russia as "fascist". While this is an opinion piece, we should keep our eyes open for scholarly works also labelling Russia in this way, and perhaps incorporate that term into our articles on the country. Biruitorul 02:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

You might be interested in last week's Eesti Ekspress' op-ed by Priit Hõbemägi. It's titled Russia is a fascist state, and it's available (in Estonian) at [7]. If necessary, I think I can translate it; it's not too long. Digwuren 01:14, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
That is a provocative (but apt) title. Do give us a flavour, if not the whole thing. Biruitorul 02:23, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
"Ms. Tlisova's food was poisoned (causing a nearly fatal case of kidney failure), her ribs were broken by assailants unknown, her teenage son was detained by drunken policemen for the crime of not being an ethnic Russian, and agents of the Federal Security Services (FSB) forced her into a car, took her to a forest outside the city of Nalchik and extinguished cigarettes on every finger of her right hand, "so that you can write better," as one of her tormentors informed her.".
This appears to be a quotation of the article For the Sake of One Man by Bret Stephens from Wall Street Journal of Tuesday, July 17, 2007. Unfortunately, the whole article is not available, but the lead is here. Digwuren 01:19, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
It is available (at least for me) at the link I gave above. Biruitorul 02:23, 20 July 2007 (UTC)
Biruitorul, this is obvious. Nalchik means she is Cherkessian. Cherkessian, according to the domminant view in Russia now, means terrorist and wakhabist, or at the very least supports them. And terrorist and wakhabist means you can shoot, or at the very least extinguish cigarets. Everything is "logical".:Dc76\talk 16:37, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
It may be obvious, but not to some here, who importantly for the rest of us, appear determined to conceal the truth about Putin's Russia. Biruitorul 07:58, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

And more: [8]. The evidence mounts. Biruitorul 02:23, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Request for Mediation[edit]

Info-icon.svg A Request for Mediation to which you are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the mediation subpage, Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Anti-Estonian sentiment.
For the Mediation Committee, Daniel
This message delivered by MediationBot, an automated bot account operated by the Mediation Committee to perform case management. If you have questions about this bot, please contact the Mediation Committee directly.
This message delivered: 12:18, 25 July 2007 (UTC).

Rein Lang[edit]

Artificial birthday party controversy - this is a) POV (the controversy has become very real no matter what the initial intentions of the parties involved) and b) confusing (what is an artificial birthday)?

They also pointed out that this era was characterised - who they? Which era?

Interesting distortion - the fact that this is your POV doesn't make it less POV

The Nochnoy Dozor group has in Russian media made calls for the Minister of Justice to resign over the event - this is plain bad English. And why not mention that Rahvaliit demanded the same, albeit with different justification? AdaHeidelberg 16:05, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I responded on your talk page. Digwuren 16:12, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


I forgot to tell you the most important thing... the reason why we asked about Kutsherla valley on the Estonian Wikiproject talk, is that we had found this link in Estonian. Maybe you can help us with it. Thank you, again. --Ginosal 09:20, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Vandal accusation[edit]

Regarding your accusation of vandalism, I'm afraid you are mistaken - there was no vandalism committed. The comment I removed was clearly an uncivil remark which violates WP:CIV. HanzoHattori's edit is one of the more serious examples of incivility: Taunting

My removal of the incivility is addressed by WP:TALK, which states:

"Removing personal attacks and incivility. This is controversial, and many editors do not feel it is acceptable;..."

I violated no Wikipedia policy nor guideline and it certainly was not vandalism:

"Vandalism is any addition, removal, or change of content made in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia."

I recommend that you be very cautious about accusing others of vandalism in the future. False allegations can lead to problems for the accuser. Vandal fighting tools such as TW are very powerful and need to be used carefully. I use VandalProof myself, and I know how easy it is to misconstrue another editor's edits when one doesn't see the full context of the issue. I recommend erring on the side of caution. The 'pretext' you found 'unconvincing' in your judgement of vandalism, is actually quite convincing when one is aware of the context.  ;) Just be more careful in the future! And always remember to WP:AGF! – Dreadstar 16:29, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree I should have used a deletion warning, not a vandalism warning, and apologise for that. However, I firmly reject the idea that [9] constitutes a personal attack, and I disagree with its removal under the applicable policy. Digwuren 17:08, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Thank you very much for the apology! It's much appreciated! One small correction, I never said it was a personal attack, I identified it as an uncivil comment, specifically: Taunting. So, I firmly agree with you that it wasn't a PA...;) Oh, and you really shouldn't have been 'warning' me at all. My action, was well within guidelines - even tho that particular guideline is considered 'controversial'. – Dreadstar 17:18, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Then, I express my explicit disapproval of removing such comments, including taunts, and caution you to err to the side of caution when judging comments in the future. Digwuren 17:22, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. I don't generally even bother with uncivil remarks of that nature, but it was late..I was tired, and the other editor was edit-warring to keep his version in place; he did not have consensus for his changes, which were under dispute on the talk page; and he was making insulting remarks to all the other editors who disagreed with him, while he ignored comments about policy, and was pretty much well engaging in disrputive behavior. "Cautioning" me is fine, but context is everything. – Dreadstar 18:15, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
In general, I would prefer that comments on talk pages be left alone, unless they're clearly and immediately harmful or obviously without any constructive purpose. Publishing private residences' addresses without their residents' consent would fall under the first clause; incoherent strongly abusive rants would fall under the second. Mere rhetorical questions I would consider OK in any circumstances I can currently think of, albeit many of them would, of course, be quite disagreeable. (I suspect there might be some context in which a question could seem merely rhetorical but actually fall into one of the above categories; I just can't think of any.)
In summary, I think I can consider this incident a minor misunderstanding. Clearly, you're not a hit-and-run deletionist vandal :-) Digwuren 17:59, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Religion of Peace[edit]

I responded here. --Raphael1 11:50, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Latvian citizenship laws[edit]

While I actually have materials which deal with minority rights/politic during the first republic, it is, in keeping with your supposition, all based on the notion that everyone's already a citizen. I'll see what I can come up with on naturalization. —  Pēters J. Vecrumba 00:54, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Lai nodrošinātu Satversmes sapulces vēlēšanas bija jāizveido Latvijas pilsonības institūts. Tas tika paveikts, 1919. gada 23. augustā TP izdodot likumu Par pavalstniecību.
Likuma trešais pants divām personu kategorijām deva tiesības iegūt Latvijas pavalstniecību paātrinātā ceļā, un proti:
1) bijušās Krievijas pilsoņiem, kuru pastāvīgā dzīves vieta ir ārpus Latvijas, bet kuri cēlušies no Latvijas robežās ietilpstošiem apgabaliem, kā arī šo personu pēcnācējiem (te jau parādās ius sanguinis princips);
2) personām, kurām likuma izdošanas laikā Latvija bija pastāvīga dzīves. vieta, bet kuras neapmierina 1.pantā minētās prasības (tas ir, nav cēlušās no šiem apgabaliem un nav arī bijušas piederīgas pie tiem).
Šīs personas sešu mēnešu laikā no likuma izsludināšanas dienas varēja iesniegt iekšlietu ministram lūgumu uzņemt Latvijas pavalstniecībā.
(in short) Paragraph 3 provided for expidited naturalization:
1) former Russian citizens who currently reside outside Latvia but who originally came from now Latvian territory, and their descendants (ius sanguinis)
2) those who were permanent residents when the citizenship law was decreed, but did not satisfy the conditions of Paragraph 1 (that is, neither originated nor belonged to any of what is now Latvian territory)
These people had 6 months to hand in their citizenship request
Losing was easy though, by the 1919 law paragraph 7 you lost citizenship if you were a woman who decided to marry a foreign sugar daddy.
Tautas padomes 1919.gada 23.augustā pieņemtais Pavalstniecības likums piešķīra neatkarīgās Latvijas pilsonību visiem, kas pastāvīgi bija dzīvojuši Latvijas teritorijā līdz 1914.gada 19.jūlijam. Līdz ar to 1920.gadā 94 % Latvijas iedzīvotāju kļuva par tās pilsoņiem, 1935.gadā šis rādītājs bija 97,7 %.
If you lived in the Latvian territory until July 19, 1914, you were granted citizenship. In 1920, 94% of Latvia's inhabitants were citizens, in 1935, 97.7%.

I haven't been able to locate the actual text of the 1919 law although it's quoted high and low. I'll look around some more. —  Pēters J. Vecrumba 01:51, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

The Riga Peace Treaty between Soviet Russia and Latvia allows for naturalisation in article VIII of the treaty: "Similarly, persons who are to be considered citizens of Russia according to the provisions of the second part of this Article, may by the same date and on the same conditions opt for Latvian citizenship." [10] Martintg 12:09, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
This may have been a one-time event, designed to give time for people to settle down in the anxious times. It is likely that regular naturalisation rules were different. Digwuren 13:03, 5 August 2007 (UTC)


Dear Digwuren, Thankyou for making a comment on my page and helping me get out of that unhappy debate. I had absolutely no intention of offending anyone when I came to that page. Least of all do I wish to disparage the courage and noble cause of the rights of the Baltic peoples to their self-respect and self-determination - quite the contrary, I share in these aspirations. The dark shadow of the Soviet propaganda and security machine undoubtedly repressed your nations in ways that westerners cannot even imagine, and no-one, least of all me, wishes to offend, even by the negligence of failing to acknowledge the intensely tragic history which has enfolded the east. Please believe me that my comments were intended to show that the 'west' has never been a monochrome pro-American entity. I do think the article about lynching is rather appalling, and would be better left out of this - it is about as tasteless as referring to the fate of the Baltic German Jewry after 1938, not just because the accusations should not be made for propaganda purposes, but also because the subject itself should not be approached with anything like levity, or as a lever in any debate. In any case, I am not going back to that other page for any reason whatever, and hope that other editors will resolve the matter to their own satisfaction. I simply could not watch as the experience of western Europe since the war was portrayed as the continual and single-minded progress of an enlightened pro-American consensus. Western European opinion in this matter is very diverse, not merely in the (delusional) Soviet-sympathetic fringe, but in many intermediate shades of liberal or moderate political thought. I hope I may leave this thought with you in friendship. Kretzsch 18:05, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Estonian National Movement[edit]

So, what is the corect translatrion of the name: Estonian National Movement or Estonian Nationalist Movement? Please see Talk:Estonian Nationalist Movement. `'Míkka 00:19, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Both are kind of correct, and both are somewhat unprecise. I prefer the -ist one because it helps to bring out a nuance difference inherent to the Estonian language word liikumine, but it's not perfect. As I explained on the talkpage, some day, a disambiguation will be needed.
In specific, rahvuslik means 'ethnicity-based' or 'nationality-based'; particularly, in a preference-relating way. English nationalist conveys most of that, but it indeed does have additional problematic connotations. English national doesn't have *these* connotations, but instead, it hints towards officialness or autority, as in First National Bank; in American English usage it may also refer to concepts that are found all over the nation's territory. This movement is certainly not official in a state sense -- it's not even a party yet, but it might become one some day -- and Estonia's territory is so small that 'all-republic' (üleriigiline) is rather irrelevant; in fact, it has become a running joke for summer entertainment tours.
Due to the nuances of liikumine I mentioned above that are hard to explain in English, I expect this movement to rename itself within a few years. Hopefully, the problem will go away then. Digwuren 02:11, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Reasonable. Thanks. `'Míkka 21:47, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


Hi! Would you please care to explain your revision of Estonians? Removing tags without providing any sources is a form of vandalism. If you're going to claim that your own people were the first to arrive in Europe, you have to have sources to back that up. You might read more at WP:OR. JdeJ 18:04, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments at my talkpage. May I suggest that in the future you try to avoid personal insults when discussing with others? They only serve to lower your credibility. Everything you say about the migrations of various people may very well be correct. I've never ruled out that Estonians might have been early arrivers in Europe. I do object to a page making such claims without any sources. Almost any people might have arrived early, but without proper sources thers's no foundation for making such claims. JdeJ 18:10, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
What you're saying doesn't match what you're doing. {{Dubious}} has considerably different connotations from what you pretend here.
As for the statement of interest -- I know what I'm talking about. Digwuren 18:14, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Lonely Planet is your source for claiming Estonians were the first in Europe? Apart from the credibility issue, your source doesn't even support the claim, it just says Estonians arrived early. Look at the similar Lonely Planet pages for Albanian, Greece, Lithuanian etc. They say the same thing. I'm leaving the page for an hour or two, but unless a source supporting the claim that Estonians were the first in Europe is provided, it will be reverted as original research. Once again, I'm not saying it's not true, just that it have to be sourced. JdeJ 18:27, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
No, my source is a general understanding of the region's prehistory. LP is just an easy-to-google publication. Digwuren 01:14, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
I hope you won't mind my insinuating myself into this discussion, onto which I managed (for reasons that remain unclear to me) to stumble. I write only to suggest that the two of you might do well to leave a note at the WikiProject Estonia talk page directing editors there to Talk:Estonians#Arrival in Europe; it is quite possible that those who are well acquainted with quality reliable sources relative to Estonians might be able to find something to adduce encyclopedically on the first in Europe proposition. Joe 05:15, 9 August 2007 (UTC)


Information.svg Welcome to Wikipedia. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. However, we remind you not to attack other editors. Please comment on the contributions and not the contributors. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Please avoid personal attacks on the talk pages like this, in the edit summaries like that or that. It is very difficult to remove personal attacks from the edit summaries so please think before hand. Also removing sourced info like that with the only explanation: "removing someditor's propaganda" is not the best style of work. Please think about it Alex Bakharev 05:06, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I stand by all these characterisations, and resent the accusation of incivility. Digwuren 05:08, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Please re-read WP:VAND#What_vandalism_is_not Alex Bakharev 05:16, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi Alex. Wow! I'm pleasantly surprised. I did not know administrators sometimes chime in without somebody bringing editor's questionnable behaviour to their attention. I'm also truly touched by your "welcome to wikipedia" statement (usually reversed for novices) toward somebody with 4,500+ edits and history of several bans :) This was so cute. RJ CG 13:51, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi Alex Bakharev, please consider rephrasing the accusations since

  • the stament regarding is not the best style of work is in conflict with this edit [11] Thanks!--Termer 09:10, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
  • removing ambiguous Category: Holocaust in Estonia redirection to Einsatzkommando#Einsatzgruppe A by Digwuren has been identified correctly as WP:Vandalism. The only question is, were we dealing with Silly vandalism: Adding profanity, graffiti, random characters, or other nonsense to pages; creating nonsensical and obviously non-encyclopedic pages, etc or Sneaky vandalism adding plausible misinformation to articles--Termer 19:06, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
  • identifying How come that a Great Russian Patriot like yourself does not live in Russian Federation but in Canada? as an attack should be further explained. So far it might be considered an inappropriate joke, misunderstood due to cultural differences as hostile. Labeling this as personal attack is not exactly what I'd call showing good faith.--Termer 19:10, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
  • This is just what it says — a call to reflection. I believe there's a particular causal relationship between applicability of the taxons I mentioned to RJ CG. In spirit of good will, I attempted to help him to realise this relationship in order to help him become a better Wikipedia editor, and in spirit of the Tao, I did my best to extract the issue into a kōan. For another attempt, formatted quite differently, by another user, see this diff. Sadly, neither appears to have helped, judging from RJ CG's even angrier campaign culminating in ProhibitOnions blocking him for "tedious editing at Bronze Soldier while violating WP:NPOV, WP:SYNTH, and WP:OR, again". (In interests of clarity, I fully support ProhibitOnions' assessment of the situation.) Digwuren 09:23, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Re:Your vote on Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Crockspot[edit]

The closing admin/'crat is going to read and carefully weigh each comment. Spelling out "oppose" is not necessary, particularly since RfA is (officially, at least) not a vote but a community discussion, where arguments count more than the tally. —AldeBaer 13:03, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Request for Arbitration[edit]

A request for arbitration Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#Digwuren and Tartu based accounts has been filed. --Irpen 18:03, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren[edit]


An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, ArbComBot 00:03, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Your comment on "Pet troll grooming by Irpen"[edit]

While I agree with you in general - it is more then little two-faced, that Irpen is bashing you while protecting dedicated POV-pushing edit warrior such as RJ CG - could you please tone down your statement? Using words "pet trolls", "grooming" and so on is not helping the case, in fact that is the first actual case of direct incivility from you. You don't have to feed the Soviets-forever! cabal and you most certainly don't have to behave like they do. And, in case you have forgotten, ArbCom case is not just about you. You may have given up on Wikipedia as beyond salvage - from your recent actions I suspect it to be so - but let me remind you that Alexia and I have not done so. Your behavior is hurting the ArbCom case, damaging the reputation of all Estonian editors. The case, which, in general is/was going very well for us, as Irpen haven't even managed to name the involved Estonian editors (which is at worst ten minute edit), not to mention, presenting any actual evidence for the "crystal clear" (his words) case. So please, could you edit (or even remove, as irrelevant) your comment? Sander Säde 05:24, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I believe that in this context, 'pet troll' and 'grooming pet trolls' should be considered terms of art, as they allow one to express rather succinctly the issue at hand. If an "accepted Wikipedia civility dictionary" makes it impossible to state what happens — which, incidentally, is one of the purposes of Ingsoc, as you recall —, then screw the dictionary. This is especially important in context of arbitration.
Alternatively, you could imagine what would happen if any and all accusations would be immediately renounced as personal attacks, and removed under the applicable policy. Digwuren 13:11, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
I request that you keep it though. It is a good piece and diffs you provided are good as well. I will use it in my evidence that I will post as soon as it is ready. Sander, yes, it will be "crystal clear". If you remove it, I will then have to use the diff instead, so no biggy either way. --Irpen 05:32, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Don't worry, it'll come back. I'll just ask Newyorkbrad to rephrase it.
Meanwhile, you might be interested to find out where the first "pet troll" accusations on Wikipedia came from, and who made them popular. Digwuren 05:34, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
I believe I coined this term myself. Too bad your original statement is not going to be at the workshop, though. But as I said, I have no attachment to this issue. --Irpen 05:37, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
If so, your assertion that usage of the term is uncivil is clearly hypocritical. But what else is new? Digwuren 05:49, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I do not want this ArbCom to fail because Irpen is unable to make a coherent case. I want it to succeed, and take care of the Cartel in the process. That's why I consider it important to point out the Cartel's misdeeds. (Irpen: and I know of more than you know I know of.) Digwuren 05:49, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Where did I ever mention the term's being "uncivil" per se? Yes, I have not yet posted to the evidence page. But the case is only two days since accepted. Don't worry, I will post it and it will be very coherent. (And I don't get the part in the parentheses, sorry.) --Irpen 06:26, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Siinkohal mainin ma muidugi veel ära, et Ghirlandajo paratamatute tulevaste tigedate röögatuste puhul on abiks kohe viidata sekretäri selleteemalisele manitsusele. Digwuren 20:18, 29 August 2007 (UTC)


Updated DYK query On 30 August, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Rene Reinmann, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Thanks for your contributions! Daniel 05:42, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Rene Reinmann‎[edit]

An article that you have been involved in editing, Rene Reinmann‎, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rene Reinmann‎. Thank you. Petri Krohn 06:24, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


Thanks for letting me know. I responsed there. M.V.E.i. 15:21, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Image:August Wilhelm Hupel.jpeg[edit]


Thank you for uploading images/media such as Image:August Wilhelm Hupel.jpeg to Wikipedia! There is however another Wikimedia foundation project called Wikimedia Commons, a central media repository for all free media. In the future, please consider creating an account and uploading media there instead. That way, all the other language Wikipedias can use them too, as well as our many sister projects. This will also allow our visitors to search for, view and use our media in one central location. If you wish to move previous uploads to Commons, see Wikipedia:Moving images to the Commons (you may view images you have previously uploaded by going to your user contributions on the left and choosing the 'image' namespace from the drop down box). Please note that non-free content, such as images claimed as fair use, cannot be uploaded to the Wikimedia Commons. Help us spread the word about Commons by informing other users, and please continue uploading!

Richard001 22:51, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

DC Goodscience blog[edit]

You made an excellent point about including this blog as a reliable external link. Thanks and I am most inclined to agree with you. My only slight hesitation (which I am sure there should be none) is how do we know that the professor is a recognized authority in Quackery specifically? I see that he was a professor of pharmacology at the now defunct UCL. I guess we can have this dicussion on Talk:Quackery, but I wanted to take the time to thank you for pointing out an exception to the rule. -- Levine2112 discuss 22:49, 31 August 2007 (UTC)


Updated DYK query On 1 September, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Estonian ID card, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Thanks for your contributions! Daniel 02:51, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Magic compression algorithm[edit]

Please, add whatever (well...) footnotes relating to the theorem, so we can move the item to decorate the Sunday front page. --Camptown 21:24, 1 September 2007 (UTC)


Updated DYK query On 2 September, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article magic compression algorithm, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Carabinieri 17:53, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Piotrus arbcom applicability[edit]

Well... don't bother, I think. My ArbCom cost me tens of hours (an equivalent of the time I put into creating a Featured article) and it has "no enforcable remedies". I am sorry that you and your collegues are subject to cabal accusations; if it makes you feel any better - so was I. And it's next to impossible to punish users for flinging such slander; WP:CIV is not respected. The best you can hope is to try to get ArbCom to state their accusations are false - but really, it will unlikely stop them (in my ArbCom, despite repeated requests, we got no commentary on whether any party did anything wrong). My advice is: care less about discussions and disputes, try to create good content. In the end its all that matters; let other waste time on wikipolitics.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  19:06, 6 September 2007 (UTC)


I've posted a question about your edit to Talk:Quixtar on that page. You added a template without any explanation and it's a bit mysterious to me. If you have a chance could you please tell us what you're referring to? Thanks, ·:· Will Beback ·:· 20:45, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Asso Kommer[edit]

You might want to write a little more than "he is an Estonian person" before reposting this article. NawlinWiki 23:29, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

  • Fair enough. But why post a stub that short? It's not like the name is going to be grabbed for some other article. NawlinWiki 23:37, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Tagging of arbitration pages[edit]

I am sorry but, as an arbitrator has already indicated, tagging arbitration pages as part of a wikiproject category is not appropriate. Newyorkbrad 01:59, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Nazi invasion of Poland (1939)[edit]

I reverted your move. First, the term invasion of Poland is much more often applies to Nazi, not Soviet, invasion. Second, those are Featured-class articles, and any movese should be discussed on talk, preferably with the use of WP:RM.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  16:19, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Further development of the relevant articles has convinced me that the symmetry is not really necessary. I will be content with the mutual links between Invasion of Poland (1939) and Soviet invasion of Poland (1939). Digwuren 17:25, 9 September 2007 (UTC)


That's an interesting template; it needs however to 1) link to an existing policy / guideline and 2) be categorized.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  17:21, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

The policy is obviously WP:UNDUE. As for categorisation and other issues of connecting it to the rest of Wikipedia's template hierarchy -- I am not sufficiently familiar to do it properly, and would welcome a more experienced editor doing that. Digwuren 17:23, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[edit]

I've only visited that site once or twice, but here are the main problems I see that make it an unsuitable source: firstly, it's very amateurishly put together, without external citations or verifiability. Secondly, it is (by design) more of a large polemic than a neutral and encyclopedic source: the people who run that site have a point to make and they're going to make it! Thirdly, a lot of the concepts that they present as fact on that site (a notable example is their adherence to the bizarre theory that the Hungarians are the direct descendants of the Sumerians) are rather loopy and have been soundly discredited, so it certainly calls into question the reliability of anything else on that site. K. Lásztocska 18:06, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Reliability of Soviet sources[edit]

You may be interested in this discussion.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  22:37, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Thread merged[edit]

From AN to Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#TfD_disruption. Regards.--Chaser - T 23:09, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Interesting subjects[edit]

If you ever have time, I'd love to cooperate with you and other Estonian users on subjects like Międzymorze or Inflanty.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  19:27, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Hungary[edit]

Yes, you unfortunately are right that WikiProject Hungary is conspicuously missing. I noticed that on the Soviet occupation page and was just wondering why we have no such project--probably because we Magyarians are so disorganized here on enwiki. I'll submit a proposal to the wikiproject council tomorrow or so, shouldn't be too hard to get it started. K. Lásztocska 05:28, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Did you know...[edit]

Updated DYK query On 11 September, 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Independent Royalist Party of Estonia, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Allen3 talk 15:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Religion of Peace[edit]

Please read my comment here. --Raphael1 21:54, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I am working on a rewrite of the Religion of Peace at User:Mike Young/Sandbox2 would value your comments on this, and especially any references you can add. Mike Young 13:19, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Hhh thank you, feel free to use the phrase wherever you like ("fool scale discussion", man that sounds like a name of a war!). Wow only now i understood i wrote fool instead of full. That makes it even better! M.V.E.i. 14:26, 12 September 2007 (UTC) Retrieved from ""

List of Estonian Americans.[edit]

Tere Digwuren, the List of Estonian Americans has been nominated for deletion. I thought perhaps you may wish to weigh in on this matter, as nearly every other American ethnic group is not listed for deletion. Cheers, ExRat 01:30, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Your DYK nomination[edit]

I just wanted to make you aware of the fact that I have commented on your DYK nomination Elektrooniline Riigi Teataja. The entry is unlikely to be used until the issue has been addressed. Please note that the top of the T:TDYK page asks nominators to: "Please check back for comments on your nomination. Responding to reasonable objections will help ensure that your article is listed."--Carabinieri 04:13, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Irrelevant -> Off-topic[edit]

I have redirect Template:Irrelevant to Template:Off-topic, they seemed to have addressed more or less the same issue. I think you may want to comment at Template talk:1911POV and Template talk:Update-eb.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  22:16, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

ArbCom case[edit]

I noted that you are involved in ArbCom case with User:Irpen. I am not involved in the case, but thought you could use some help in regards to his behaviour at WP. Please see this fraud attempt here and see if you can use it in your ArbCom case. Hope that helps. Hillock65 01:11, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Political Correctness[edit]

I agree with you, but your addition needs a cite.--Cberlet 02:31, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for copyedit![edit]

Владимир И. Сува Чего? 07:35, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Estonia Star[edit]

Barnstar-estonia.png The Estonia Star
For your outstanding contribution to Estonia related articles Martintg 10:48, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! 泥紅蓮凸凹箱 18:57, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to the Military history WikiProject![edit]

DYK nomination[edit]

Hi. I've nominated Denial_of_Soviet_occupation, an article you worked on, for consideration to appear on the Main Page as part of Wikipedia:Did you know. 

You can see the hook for the article at Template talk:Did you know#Articles created on September 23, where you can improve it if you see fit. Martintg 00:23, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


For the GA review for I Don't Remember. Dihydrogen Monoxide (H2O) 05:53, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Re Talk:Denial of Soviet occupation, I've left a note here and have reverted back to my version of talk page, where it's a GA. Can you check if the article is still at WP:GA and Template:GA number, and re-add if necessary? Dihydrogen Monoxide (H2O) 23:08, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Re: Soviet occupation article[edit]

Because of the article being in the following categories at the time of delisting:

Thanks, Will (talk) 18:48, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, I think that now you should renominate the article (as the promotion itself was a bit suspect, I think you should get a different user to look it over). Will (talk) 18:58, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
No, there was nothing suspicious. The accusations are baseless, and by putting a deadline to backing them up with actual evidence, I hope to get that accepted as the consensus.
I will, however, proceed to renominate the article for another review. It's considerably improved after the last review, thanks to Dihydrogen Monoxide's expert advice, and should have no trouble 11001passing the review again. (The primary aim to my question was to determine if WP:GAC or WP:GAR is the more appropriate venue.) ΔιγυρενΕμπροσ! 19:08, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Well, it's that the GA was rather quickly promoted (if the figure of 29 hours is correct); normally it takes 2-4 days. But still, the second nomination should quieten Irpen, as there would be three opinions that is should be a GA. Will (talk) 19:24, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


You can create joke templates in your userspace. But please don't create them in mainspace, they will get deleted and allow criticism of you (their creator). -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  18:08, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Not to be forgotten[edit]

Did not want to edit your user page, so here are few more who have fallen while battling evil...

-- Sander Säde 18:14, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Half Barnstar[edit]

Starhalf.png The Half Barnstar
For swiftly putting the phrase "fool-scale discussion" coined by User:M.V.E.i. into humorous template to bring back the smile into editors faces and cool down pointless arguments. Suva Чего? 19:43, 26 September 2007 (UTC)


Please consider at least some standard latin characters in your signature so people can understand who you are. The funky signature obfuscates your identity, which is not helpful for establishing good cooperation with other users. Thanks. - Jehochman Talk 15:29, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me? This doesn't obfuscate his identity. He still appears in page histories and watchlists as Digwuren, the signature is not arbitrary and still clickable. What's wrong? Is he obliged to conform to your tastes? There are thousands of editors with modified signatures (let alone those who don't bother to sign at all). If you want to change this, change the policy first. Colchicum 15:36, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
It was a polite request, that Digwuren doesn't have to comply with, so no hard feelings, please. Jehochman doesn't want to force Digwuren to change his signature to "conform to [Jehochman's] tastes", but because he thinks it is a little confusing, that's all. Melsaran (talk) 17:28, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
I fail to see the confusion. Greek letters are well-recognised by mathematicians everywhere and appear, among other places, on the Euro currency. What's wrong with using Greek to spell your nick? ΔιγυρενΕμπροσ! 15:32, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


Why did you do this? Daniel 09:14, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Someone just applied the cluehammer to me, to explain that you were trying to add more blank templates. Sorry, Daniel 09:14, 29 September 2007 (UTC)


Hello, I notice you recently created a category about soviet unpersons. I would like to help you expand it, but I am a little confused as to the criteria for this category could you explain? I have added Łukasz Ciepliński‎, would you look over him and see if he is fit? Thanks, Ostap 07:30, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. One more question, would Trotsky fit in this category? Ostap 07:49, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, thats pretty much what I thought. I did add Nikolai Yezhov to it though. Those pictures are pure gold. I suppose he could potentially fall under the same situation as Trotsky, but he was already in the "Historical deletion" category so I figured it was safe to add him to this one. Cheers, Ostap 08:04, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Super Mario RPG lists[edit]

Currently, Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars has two lists pertaining to it (List of characters in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, and List of locations in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars). User:TTN decided it would be best to merge the lists into the main article and split Smithy Gang into those articles. I recently merged Smithy Gang into the list of chatacters by removing the non-notable characters, and I have asserted that a cameo section in the list of characters is valid, per Wikipedia:Trivia sections and Wikipedia:Handling trivia that uses Alex Trebek#Cameos as a good example. I have suggested that we rename the articles per Wikipedia:Requested moves#Requesting potentially controversial moves to something along the lines of Characters of Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars and World of Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars or Mushroom Kingdom (Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars) just like Characters of Final Fantasy VIII and World of Final Fantasy VI or Gaia (Final Fantasy VII). I believe if these articles are to evolve beyond a non-notable list, they should be renamed. For example, List of Final Fantasy VII locations was merged into Gaia (Final Fantasy VII), because a World article is notable, but a simple list of locations is not. That is why there are other secions of the article to make it a World article. It simply has not been renamed yet.

TTN believes the citations in the development and reception sections of the list of locations, books and magazines, are trivial sources. When I added that the 3D perspective of the game is reminicent of Equinox to the main article, TTN removed it since my souce was "the opinions of the Nintendo Power player's guide writers". Although it was actually Nintendo Power magazine, I do believe a magazine is a reliable source, and I gave a page from Next Generation Magazine which also said the same thing. In addition, I was surprized that TTN said that it was from the players guide, since he claims to own the players guide for the game. He has not verified this, since I asked him for citations in May, "Could you look in the back of the Player's Guide and tell me what “types” of … Magic? I forgot what they call it in the game … well, anyways, what types of Special Attack or whatever it is (actually, could you find out what it's called?) there are? I remember some vaguely when I owned the guide like “Fire”, “Jump”, “Electricity?”, etc. Could you provide a citation, like the page number with a quote in context?" TTN replied that he was going to "get to it" (User talk:TTN/Archive 5#List of locations in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars). TTN claims the player's guide is "at the bottom of a box that's behind at least five others in a cramped space". Seeing that TTN did not recognize that the page was not from the player's guide when I provided a scan of the page in question from Nintendo Power shocked me. However, I have continued to assume good faith by not questioning TTN's honesty.

Per Wikipedia:Consensus#Consensus can change, I have offered five different reasonable, temporary compromises that might integrate my idea with TTN's.

  1. Go over the list of characters so we can delete non–notable characters
  2. Rename the articles by following the steps at Wikipedia:Requested moves#Requesting potentially controversial moves.
  3. Cut down the geography section list of locations by cutting it into the regional maps the adventures use when traveling from one to another. I can get pictures and write the fair use rationals, and someone can cut down the text that has no citation and does not allude to other media.
  4. Write the concept and creation and reception sections for the list of characters
  5. Write the concept and creation section for the main article

TTN rejected my compromise because it still keeps the articles. I agreed I would consider a redirect, but Wikipedia:Article size does not allow that, since the list of locations is currently 82 KB long. Instead, I agreed to help cut down the geography section that is the bulk of the article, but TTN rejected that as well because TTN states, "I am not interested in working on the article in regards to improving it." and "get past this "having sources automatically means that this information is good" mentality." TTN states, "I don't think they have or will ever assert notability." I have replied with, "Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, so if you don't think the articles will ever assert notability, we cannot yet know this, per Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions#I don't like it.

Would you please take a look at Talk:Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars and give us your thoughts? Taric25 01:00, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


Unfortunately the move didn't work out in the end, but I've a copy in my userspace for the useful references. Beats me how something with over 4000 references in Google scholar could be dismissed as mere POV. Martintg 03:30, 4 October 2007 (UTC)


Don't call obvious good-faith edits "vandalism", as in your edit summary "rvv" here. See also Wikipedia:Avoid the word "vandal". Don't jump at every opportunity to attack Irpen. Don't troll. Don't revert anybody on my page ever again. This is the only warning you will receive. Bishonen | talk 22:53, 4 October 2007 (UTC).

Digwuren, leave these "superior editors" alone. They are not worth effort. Colchicum 23:06, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Colchicum, please retract these incivilities. --Ghirla-трёп- 10:04, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Look who's talking. Have you ever retracted incivilities, such as accusing a person with disability? -- Sander Säde 10:13, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Prague Spring-Soviet Occupation[edit]

Hey, come talk with us here please. Your thoughts on this would be good. I don't disagree that Czechoslovakia was occupied until the 90s, but I'm not sure your article needs to exist. - TheMightyQuill 01:36, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XIX (September 2007)[edit]

The September 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

Delivered by grafikbot 09:19, 8 October 2007 (UTC)


Updated DYK query Did you know...
...that there's an ongoing attempt to develop a serious alternative to the conflict-ridden Wikipedia and both active and retired Wikipedians are encouraged to register ?

Erik Jesse 14:04, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Lossless Compression[edit]

while i'm all for the continual contributions, again not presenting a counter argument is somewhat non-productive.

provide an actual counter argument if you can. Both the pidgeon hole principle and the counting argument have no basis with a lower boundary in place.UmbraPanda 02:49, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but maths do not work this way. A properly proven theorem is correct within its axiomatic system, and no argument is going to change that. ΔιγυρενΕμπροσ! 08:53, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

RFA Thank You Note from Jehochman[edit]

Piratey with mop.svg Ready to swab the decks!   
Another motley scallawag has joined the crew.
Thanks for your comments at my RFA. Arrrgh!

- - Jehochman Talk 05:18, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Soviet occupations[edit]

Title says it all. Yes, again Dojarca, yes, again main reason for deletion is that you are Estonian. -- Sander Säde 18:13, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Cherry Impact Event Award[edit]

I hereby award you the Cherry Impact Event Award., for an outstanding contributor who has made an impact on Wikipedia and aided our understanding of the Soviet Union. Martintg 20:36, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
Many thanks! ΔιγυρενΕμπροσ! 00:36, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren[edit]

This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. Among the principles passed was At wit's end which states that necessary measures must be adopted by the Arbitration Committee in cases where repeated attempts to stop disruptive disputes have failed. As a result of the case, both Digwuren and Petri Krohn are banned for one year. There has also been a general restriction to all editors working on topics related to Eastern Europe and a warning to all those who may, in the future, attempt to use Wikipedia as a battleground that they may be banned when the matter is reported to the Committee. On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Cbrown1023 talk 18:28, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XX (October 2007)[edit]

The October 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

Delivered by grafikbot 13:48, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXI (November 2007)[edit]

The November 2007 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot 01:20, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:The Commissar Vanishes.jpeg)[edit]

Nuvola apps important blue.svg Thanks for uploading Image:The Commissar Vanishes.jpeg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 19:55, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter — Issue XXII (December 2007)[edit]

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter
Issue XXII (December 2007)
Project news
Articles of note

New featured articles:

  1. Battle of Albuera
  2. Battle of Dyrrhachium (1081)
  3. Battle of the Gebora
  4. Constantine II of Scotland
  5. Francis Harvey
  6. Vasa (ship)
  7. Wulfhere of Mercia

New A-Class articles:

  1. 1962 South Vietnamese Presidential Palace bombing
  2. Evacuation of East Prussia
Current proposals and discussions
Awards and honors
  • Blnguyen has been awarded the WikiChevrons with Oak Leaves in recognition of his efforts in improving the quality of articles related to Vietnamese military history, including the creation of numerous A-Class articles.
  • Woodym555 has been awarded the WikiChevrons with Oak Leaves in recognition of his outstanding work on topics related to the Victoria Cross, notably including the creation of featured articles, featured lists, and a featured topic.
  • For their outstanding efforts as part of Tag & Assess 2007, Bedford, TomStar81, and Parsival74 have been awarded the gold, silver, and bronze Wikis, respectively.
Tag & Assess 2007

Tag & Assess 2007 is now officially over, with slightly under 68,000 articles processed. The top twenty scores are as follows:

1. Bedford — 7,600
2. TomStar81 — 5,500
3. Parsival74 — 5,200
4. FayssalF — 3,500
5. Roger Davies — 3,000
6. Ouro — 2600
7. Kateshortforbob — 2250
8. Cromdog — 2,200
9. BrokenSphere — 2000
9. Jacksinterweb — 2,000
9. Maralia — 2,000
12. MBK004 — 1,340
13. JKBrooks85 — 1,250
14. Sniperz11 — 1100
15. Burzmali — 1000
15. Cplakidas — 1000
15. Gimme danger — 1000
15. Raoulduke471000
15. TicketMan — 1000
15. Welsh — 1000
15. Blnguyen — 1000

Although the drive is officially closed, existing participants can continue tagging until January 31 if they wish, with the extra tags counting towards their tally for barnstar purposes.

We'd like to see what lessons can be learned from this drive, so we've set up a feedback workshop. Comments and feedback from participants and non-participants alike are very welcome and appreciated.

To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here.

Note: This newsletter was automatically delivered. Regards from the automated, Anibot (talk) 23:14, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election[edit]

The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process is starting. We are aiming to elect nine coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up here by February 14! TomStar81 (Talk) 02:44, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIII (January 2008)[edit]

The January 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 23:38, 3 February 2008 (UTC)


For when you return (I just realised you were banned), I have a suggestion to make. Interesting though I find the use of Greek in your signature, there is a mistake in it: in Greek, the final sigma in a word is different than the rest. In other words, if a word ends with sigma, it is not written "σ" but "ς". The current signature looks a little strange to Greeks, and probably to many others as well.

In any case, I wish you a happy and productive reinstatement when you return. Waltham, The Duke of 13:52, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Template:User IRC 3[edit]

A tag has been placed on Template:User IRC 3 requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section T3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a deprecated or orphaned template. After seven days, if it is still unused and the speedy deletion tag has not been removed, the template will be deleted.

If the template is intended to be substituted, please feel free to remove the speedy deletion tag and please consider putting a note on the template's page indicating that it is substituted so as to avoid any future mistakes (<noinclude>{{transclusionless}}</noinclude>).

Thanks. --MZMcBride (talk) 04:07, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIV (February 2008)[edit]

The February 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 04:21, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXV (March 2008)[edit]

The March 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 01:00, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Digwuren/Denial of Soviet crimes[edit]

Are you still using User:Digwuren/Denial of Soviet crimes? I came across it in cleanup work. Guy (Help!) 22:40, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Digwuren is "away." I would request to keep his sandbox(es) as they are until his return. —PētersV (talk) 01:54, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren[edit]

The Arbitration Committee has rendered decisions passing a motion to apply discretionary sanctions remedies to the case linked above. Any uninvolved administrator may, on his or her own discretion, impose sanctions on any editor working in the area of conflict ("articles which relate to Eastern Europe, broadly interpreted") if, despite being warned, that editor repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behavior, or any normal editorial process.

The final text of the motions can be found at the case page linked above.

— Coren (talk) for the Arbitration Committee, 14:41, 28 July 2008 (UTC)


Hello Digwuren! As of October 21, 18:36 UTC, you are no longer banned; I have removed your name from the list of pariahs, and have restored you userpage. Cheers, Face 18:58, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Terviseks! The WP:COLDWAR continues, but is in capable hands, and I'm sure someone will find it significant that I've welcomed you back. (!) Spend some time writing articles, leave the WP:BATTLES to the rest. —PētersV (talk) 14:00, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
Yep. It's fun to tickle the conspiracy theorists! ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 14:14, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
Welcome back! Colchicum (talk) 14:08, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
Hey, welcome back! Martintg (talk) 20:54, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Welcome back. Please don't get yourself banned again :) PS. Do follow Peters advice: once you write some Featured articles and such, you'll be much less likely to get banned ever again :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 00:04, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Harald Siiak[edit]

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A tag has been placed on Harald Siiak requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about about a person, organization (band, club, company, etc.) or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. Amused Repose Converse! 18:17, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Terviseks again! Since you're in the mood to be industrious, perhaps you should start off with some of these articles in your user space and post announcements with a link on the Baltic states notice board so we can have some cooperative growth before planting them in WP proper. :-) PētersV (talk) 20:16, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
Actually, I'm grumpy. So obviously, first I'm going to be complaining about how trigger-happy admins keep deleting my stuff before it's even ready, and how this is a part of the common philosophical misconception that an encyclopædia is about what things are, not how things relate to each other. The Vorlons may be showy and flashy, but their question is not all that it cracked up to be. ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 20:24, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
I usually put my stuff in userspace until it's got enough references and air in it's tiny lungs to breathe. I'm usually not picky about sources, even weak sources, as long as the article is still less than a few months old. (like your changes to Helitron). But it's a lot harder to do that for Harald Silak -- before I CSD something I at least try to find a good source for it, and I couldn't , sorry. -- Amused Repose Converse! 20:37, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
No wonder! You misspelt his name -- it's Siiak, not Silak. Besides, having born in 1923, most of his Great Deeds happened before the age of Internet. ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 20:52, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
I've asked AmusedRepose to restore the article. Siiak even has a book published about him [12]. Martintg (talk) 21:02, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
Yep, the 1990 Great Singing Party was one of his last Great Works. He did quite a bit of the arrangements, and some conducting.
Actually, you misinterpreted. The book is not about him; it is by him. It contains arrangements for the upcoming 1990 General Song Party; it's published in advance so all participating choirs get a chance to learn the songs properly. ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 21:51, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
Internet didn't become a household term in Estonia until after 1995. ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 21:05, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
There should be some books. Nothing on LexisNexis. Why isn't he here, or in any other Estonian musical resource I can find? Why can't I find any offline references on Musicseek? Saying he is notable and has "Great Deeds" is fine, but we have to have at least some kind of decent reference in a book, journal, old encyclopedia, something besides a webpage saying "yup, he's great". -- Amused Repose Converse! 21:11, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
The EMIC list is very short, containing only 48 composers. It doesn't even have such well-known names as Riho Päts, Ülo Vinter or Alo Mattiisen. You probably don't know that, but Ülo Vinter's song Põhjamaa ([13]) -- originally for a musical adaptation of Astrid Lindgren's Pippi Longstocking -- has been seriously considered as a candidate to be the new national anthem for Estonia. Even without an official status, it still commands a lot of respect; for example, look at this recording, made at the 20th anniversary festival of the Night Song Festival events. As for Alo Mattiisen, without him the Singing Revolution would have been very different, if it had taken place at all.
As for books, Siiak had the (un)luck of serving in the Finnish Infantry Regiment 200 during the World War II. (As you recall, he was a teenager when the war started.) Once the war ended, the Soviets repressed everybody who had been fighting with the Finns they could get their hands on -- after all, the Soviets had just fought the Winter War against the Finns. It would have been unthinkable for Siiak to publish anything before the Khruschev Thaw, and the censors were very cautious about him (and others like him) before Gorbachev. By 1986, Siiak was 63, and most of his life work was in teaching, performing (but not recording -- he was "enemy of the people"), conducting -- and musical arrangements. However, his work is so prolific that when he contributed his choral note collection to the Estonian Music and Theatre Academy, he ended up being listed as one of the biggest donors -- alongside Veljo Tormis, Käbi Laretei, Andres Siitan and Heiki Mätlik. ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 21:29, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
Mu mõistmine eesti vaene. Summarize that search for me so I can try to crosscheck it against English-language sources, if we can find one, the rest of the foreign language sources are fine and the article can resist speedy or formal deletion. -- Amused Repose Converse! 21:49, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
Such cross-checking can't be done. The items referred to in the entries are untranslateable, being recordings of recent (post-1990) performances, and Estonian music arrangements for Estonian choirs. It would be very unlikely for any of his notes to be accessible in any English-language online-indexed museum or library; if there is a significant collection of his work anywhere outside Estonia at all, it is pretty certainly a private collection of a foreign Estophile.
If you want to cross-check his work, you'll need to visit an Estonian library that is member to the ESTER (or a related indexing system). Even the above-mentioned Estonian Music and Theatre Academy library is for some reason located in Estonia. ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 21:58, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
You might consider , then, putting the article here : eesti wiki! Just a thought. Much easier to keep him there, and then using that article to build refs and link it back to here. :) -- Amused Repose Converse! 07:26, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Check out this search at the ESTER of National Library of Estonia. ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 21:42, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Mind WP:CSB: info on Estonian musicians is not easy to find. [As an admin] I'd support restoring and formal discussion at WP:AFD instead of speedy, how about that? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 00:07, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

That would be fine (restoral) , but from what he's saying I'm not sure it applies. If I understand correctly, there's never going to be a way to document this or reference it properly in English. I'm not saying that he's not important or doesn't need an entry, but it seems to be the best thing to do would be build out a full, length, good quality article on eesti wiki and then work on translating that to English with the sourcing available there. -- Amused Repose Converse! 00:25, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
(od) Hello, AmusedRepose. If I might be philosophical for a moment... WP exists to widen our knowledge of the world and each other. That references are not widely available in the English language is in no way a measure of significance. According to that logic, we would also still be studying English literature--with none other being of any significance--in high school. Building out on Estonian wiki is not the best solution, as all the Estonian editors with a good command of English already participate here, and depending on topic, other Baltic editors often have access to pertinent sources in their language.
   "Significance" if measured by wide availablity restricts us to things already well known in the Anglo-American culture. If an article has been up for, say, six months and has not grown, then I would certainly support deletion. However, the rules for "significance" and their implicit definition of obscure and/or irrelevant and/or capricious where people create articles about the typeface used to stamp a manufacurer's name on a hockey puck, do not apply to Baltic, central, eastern European history or traditional/modern culture. This is not a capricious article created for the "isn't that KEWL" factor of an entry existing in Wikipedia.
   Finally, vigorous application of "significance" and "speedy delete" before articles have a chance to develop connotes a level of distrust that an article will grow. Trust that articles will grow--or be allowed to grow--isn't going to be garnered by either side if we keep pulling the trigger and then asking questions. Look how much effort we've wasted here. I spent as much time on this response as I did to adding to one article this morning. Something has to change if WP is to become a useful source of knowledge about the Baltics, which is the only intent here. I'd ask for a sign of good faith and for the article to be restored. I'd also support some sort of "six month development tag" so we might better avoid this sort of expenditure of energy. —PētersV (talk) 16:05, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Check your email[edit]

You've got mail. Martintg (talk) 20:49, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I've responded. ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 20:54, 25 October 2008 (UTC)


Hi. You've participated in the debate about deleting of category:Former Towns of RSK 1991-95 [14]. Now, there's a similar voting on deletion on the article (created, although the results of discussion was delete, not listify). The links to the voting is here merger suggestion?. Since you've participated previously in the discussion, you're invited to participate again. Please, give your opinion. Kubura (talk) 14:21, 28 October 2008 (UTC)


Hi. Came across your name, & since you seem knowledgeable about the EFront of WW2, let me ask. What would you say were the 2 or 3 best sources (in English; sadly, I don't read Russian) on Stavka &/or Stalin's command decisions during the war? Thanks for the help. TREKphiler hit me ♠ 23:25, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

No big. Thanks anyhow. TREKphiler hit me ♠ 23:37, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

No content in Category:Estonian choirs[edit]

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Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Category:Estonian choirs, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Category:Estonian choirs has been empty for at least four days, and its only content has been links to parent categories. (CSD C1).

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Category:Estonian choirs, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. To see the user who deleted the page, click here CSDWarnBot (talk) 06:10, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Terviseks! If it's a numbers game, we can start with [[Category:Baltic choirs]] and when we have sufficient numbers, we can spawn off categories for each country. -PētersV (talk) 02:44, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Re:It's that time of year again[edit]

A very interesting article, I'll certainly try to lend a hand. On the subject of fascinating articles, see my post here.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 17:52, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

1924 coup[edit]

Hi! Do see the last few edits here - it's now being described as "an armed action by Estonian workers that was directed by the Communist Party of Estonia in the context of a revolutionary situation" instead of a "failed coup attempt staged by Communists in Estonia". Biruitorul Talk 13:55, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, and yes, he does appear to be spreading agitprop, which I've largely reverted, but keeping an eye on him (for a while anyway) seems prudent. Biruitorul Talk 15:22, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Verrrrry interesting... Either way, he's a) a radical leftist bent on polluting articles with his world-view and b) probably not new to Wikipedia, given his use of footnotes and jargon like "stalking", "vandalism" and "rvv". Not likely to be a help to the project. Biruitorul Talk 04:42, 5 November 2008 (UTC)


Hi Digwuren. Thanks for the message. Currently I am very busy, but I hope it will change and then I should be able to help. Greetings. Tymek (talk) 19:24, 4 November 2008 (UTC)


What is the height of this? I have seen everything between 25 and 31 m. Colchicum (talk) 22:03, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! Colchicum (talk) 00:52, 5 November 2008 (UTC)


... not even if hell gets frozen. :) Renata (talk) 23:03, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Running for arbcom[edit]

I have no chance whatsoever at being able to be an arbitrator. However, I do know of some people who would make excellent arbitrators

  1. User:Dougweller
  2. User:MastCell
  3. User:Moreschi

See if you can convince them.

ScienceApologist (talk) 04:19, 11 November 2008 (UTC)


Hi! Thank you for your offer, I'm rather pleased with it. However due to various RL circumstances now I don't have enough time even to write articles as much as I'd like to so I feel that if I were an arbcom member I wouldn't be able to dedicate necessary amount of time to the arbcom process. Best regards, Alæxis¿question? 06:21, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Estonian choirs[edit]

Hi Digwuren, you may be interested in this List of Estonian choirs. Probably that template needs to be recreated. Martintg (talk) 00:47, 21 November 2008 (UTC)


Hi, I think that we really don't need such re-directs ([15], [16]).
Considering that recently some of the more disruptive Russian nationalist trolls were banned or restricted, I suggest adopting a different attitude. Creating new articles or expanding present ones on the topic of Eastern Europe would be much more constructive than starting long disputes about trivial and at the same time controversial matters. Cheers, --Pan Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (t) 15:10, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Your vote on my RfA[edit]

On my RfA, you opposed based on me being a "conformist". What exactly did you mean by that? Isn't it a requirement, basically, to be a conformist to be an admin? Or even a decent user at that? Undead Warrior (talk) 00:43, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Merry XMAS[edit]

Merry XMAS from User:Piotrus. 12:15, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Tsarist autocracy[edit]

Tsarskoye samoderzhaviye is definitely not a transcription, it is a transliteration (or a romanization, depending on how you spin it). IPA would be a transcription. Carskoe samoderžavie is also a transliteration. The former is required by WP:RUS, the latter is not, but can still be mentioned, providing the system of transliteration is identified. Does this help?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 19:10, December 29, 2008 (UTC)

It is a proper BGN/PCGN romanization of Russian "царское самодержавие". While the primary purpose of that system is to establish standard spelling for geographic names written in Russian, it is fairly commonly used for romanization/transliteration of any Russian words. WP:RUS is based on BGN/PCGN with that observation in mind.
"Carskoe samoderžavie" is an equally correct ISO/UN/Scolarly transliteration. Scolarly transliteration is more common in the academic works on history, so it makes sense to include this version in the lead as well.
The bottom line—neither of the two variants is more "correct" than the other. They simply have somewhat different areas of applicability.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 19:24, December 29, 2008 (UTC)

Aasta vabatahtlik[edit]

Please consider writing "Andres Luure" article, see Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2009-01-24/News and notes & et:Andres Luure - 7-bubёn >t 01:55, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Not knowing anything about his background, I can only translate the Estonian Wikipedia entry. ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 07:40, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Eastern European neologisms[edit]

Hi, I recently started a page in my user space, you are welcome to share your thoughts here. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 09:52, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Ah, the innocence of youthful Wikipedians :-)
Unfortunately, this idea wouldn't stand for long. As soon as somebody with a WP:IDONTLIKEIT on his belt finds it, he'll get the whole page torn down as "original research" faster than you can say "Hey! I *am* a researcher in real life!". ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 10:02, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

22nd amendment[edit]

"No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice" Ostap 03:07, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Saying he was dethroned just makes no sense. [17] That comment bothered me and caused many sleepless nights. Now I hope it wasn't just sarcasm. Ostap 03:41, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Ah. It's a pun on the concept of Imperial Presidency.
Besides, if voters had been happy with Bush and wanted him to continue, they would have elected John McCain, Bush's chosen successor. ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 10:56, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
You and I both know if he was allowed to run he would have been reelected. Ostap 13:22, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Considering that his approval rating was on par with that of Richard Nixon, the only way he could have been reelected would have required massive voting machine fraud. ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 14:14, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
That was sarcasm. Ostap 19:26, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
Not really. American voters may do a lot of strange things, but they aren't about to give a 20%+ higher support to a person so thoroughly hated that only the Right Wing Authoritarians still support him. If Karl Rove would have the power to pull off enough black PR tricks to make Bush viable for reelection, he and his students would have gleefully pushed McCain through. They didn't, ergo they can't. ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 08:59, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
My comment was sarcasm. Talking to you is too complicated. Ostap 18:26, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
Oh. Sorry about that. ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 08:05, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

If presidential impeachment hadn't been irrecoverably tied to blue dresses and oval spots in American public's minds, it seems very likely that Bush had been impeached, too. ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 14:17, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Not as likely as one might think. Ostap 19:26, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Vormsi enn[edit]

Thanks for your note there, sometimes I feel a little alone Power.corrupts (talk) 13:07, 9 February 2009 (UTC)


Hi, could you take a look here Talk:South Estonian language and Võro dialect. There's been for years some fuss that Southern dialects of Estonian form a separate language, which to my eye is pure and simple POV-pushing of marginal theories. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 10:09, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I'll take a look. The Võro-pushing folks are culturally active, and sometimes tend to feel super over their neighbours. It would be helpful if this energy could be channeled in a more productive pursuit -- even getting some of the newly developed Võro textbooks GFDL-free or CC-free wouldn't be a bad outcome. Pushing -- against scholarly consensus -- linguistic distinction of Võro, however, is. ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 22:14, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
FWIW, I find it rather amusing that at least now, Võro language is a redirect to Võro dialect, which is, in turn, redirect to Võro language. Kes selle välja mõtles, oli tõeline võrukael :-) ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 22:17, 11 February 2009 (UTC)


Hi Digwaren. On the BLPN, made mention that: scatalogical material fell under "non-notable events of no encyclopædic value". If this is true, can you provide me with the relevant link? Or were you just being facetious? Richard Cooke (talk) 15:11, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

No facetiousness; just a bit of common sense together with WP:N. ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 07:50, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

"Common sense" is contested. Better to stick to policy. And if SS are anything to go by, notability isn't the issue. Thanks for replying, and contesting in a good spirit. ;) Richard Cooke (talk) 13:22, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Help:Archiving a talk page[edit]

Should be of interest :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 19:13, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Võro language[edit]

Please keep you POV away from what is a recognised natural language. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 23:01, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Let me assure you, I know what I'm doing. Furthermore, languages are not "recognised" like countries. ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 11:10, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
I am convinced of the opposite. Language are recognised like countries. Both have their ISO code. The ISO code for languages is the ISO 639. The code under this standard is vro. And I get tired mopping up after you. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 11:48, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm aware of this ISO change request. However, this does not change the scholarly consensus.
You might also be interested that the process of recognising countries has nothing whatsoever to do with ISO, either -- countries are recognised by other countries, and ISO merely represents (mostly) the consensus on that. ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 11:51, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

WP:COIN discussion about Võro language[edit]

Hello Digwuren. You may be interested in the discussion at WP:COIN#Advice needed. EdJohnston (talk) 04:30, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the notice. ΔιγουρενΕμπρος! 08:00, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
I've also noticed that thread. BTW, could you please archive your talk page, I have a slow internet connection and it's difficult to follow. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 12:44, 18 February 2009 (UTC)