User talk:Djr13

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A page you started has been reviewed![edit]

Thanks for creating Kurt Gustav Wilckens, Djr13!

Wikipedia editor Nixie9 just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

Could be much longer, the refs are out there as well as the spanish WP page. I added one youtube link, and there are 2 more.

To reply, leave a comment on Nixie9's talk page.

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WOW[edit]

Another labour image that used to be on the IWW page but was replaced

You managed to impress even me and I already more or less knew about my pictures (for which you just made a category at Commons). I have a very old computer and am one step up, or perhaps sideways from having just dial up internet and have found Commons difficult to up load to over the years so don't do it much. I also was not very good at categories over there, I tried to start a "Sculpture in the United States" one once, also "Architectural sculpture" since those, as you may have noticed, are two loves of mine. Now imagine my surprise to come to your page and discover that you are involved in the Organized Labour (as the brits would say) Project. I am not quite sure how those pictures are catalogued at commons but if you go to the IWW article here I have several pictures in that article - one of which I found in Commons by searching for IWW but you probably did not find it because someone else's name was attached to it. I also have a few at the Ludlow massacre article (it is called something else) that work for a Labour project. A picture from there - maybe now replaced - was used in Howard Zinn's "History of American Empire" and I am very proud of that but have no one to brag about it to, so you get to hear about it. I think I have something on the Joe Hill page too. Sorry about the delay in getting back to you followed by this blathering outpour. Thanks for organizing my pictures (want to come over and organize the library I work in?) Einar aka Carptrash (talk) 16:02, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm surprised you're impressed by something that to me is just a simple housekeeping type of thing. :) I've lived with dialup-grade internet well into the 2000's so I know well how you feel about that. Commons is pretty easy to upload to, has a pretty simple upload wizard these days allowing you to even upload multiple at once, though the tough part can be knowing which categories to assign it to, often for me requiring guessing and digging through categories to see the lay of the land before submitting. I only recently started using the bulk categorization tools which really helped put together the "Carptrash files from wikipedia" category, some 300 images. There's one image I categorized but another editor reverted (them suggesting the category might imply authorship rather than just upload): File:Arrow heads.jpg. I did mistakenly miss categorizing the red card photo but apparently this is because two years back I had "simplified" the file's description without the word "wikipedia", a search term I relied on to find these. Indeed I did miss a Ludlow Monument image you uploaded: File:LudlowMassacreMonument.jpg. Did I miss any others? Photos (and article text) on Wikipedia et al certainly do have a tendency to percolate far and wide! Sometimes this makes it hard to find information that didn't, well, originate here. As far as organizing a library, between helping out at infoshops and putting old texts up on Wikisource, I think I have my hands full! No problem at all about the long reply, as you can see I'm more than happy to reciprocate. djr13 (talk) 18:48, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
After seeing a couple issues I ran into to miss those couple images, I did another run-through and found another dozen or so that I added in. You probably noticed that I reverted one you added to the category, wasn't sure if this was mistaken...I interpreted the category as being just for uploads that had been transferred over from here, as opposed to a more general, "files by" category. But hell, the category has your username in it, don't interpret the reversion as attempting to step on your toes. :-) djr13 (talk) 23:15, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
I feel more as if I am standing on your shoulders than you treading on my toes, so do not worry. There are 4 pictures at the bottom of Ludlow Monument that are marked to be moved to commons, don't think that they have been. I had maybe a hundred or two images, mostly sculpture, removed as being copyright violation that I have since come to realize were NOT, but at time I was not a savvy about that stuff as I am now. The fight that I had about File:IndianIM.jpg was epic. Then after I won the fight someone replaced one of my pictures with one perhaps marginally better, but that's how wikipedia works. The Arrowheads picture is the cover of a book that was produced by the US Government, so is copyright free. I certainly intended to include that information somewhere. I had a picture of Utah Phillips that I found on some Czech website that I still wonder what that article was about. I do occasionally use pictures taken with my camera such as File:MichaelKin-Chicago1986.jpg - which includes me on the left. I do some category stuff on wikipedia, and am always in awe of editors such as yourself and others who seem to really get it, while I just flounder about. Still, as a self-proclaimed lie long learner figuring out how to upload and categorize stuff on Commons miight not be a bad next step. PS I am constantly amazed by my wife's simple housekeeping types of things, so . . . . . .............. Carptrash (talk) 01:39, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

William D. Robinson[edit]

I have restored the sourced statement that the BLE was the first union in the USA in 1863. There clearly were no unions in the US 100 years earlier, since the US did not exist 100 years earlier. Trade unions were illegal in most countries until the 1870s. Do you know of any US unions that predate this one? Aymatth2 (talk) 03:46, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

See also National Labor Union. Remember the context of the American Civil War (1861-1865), which spurred development of organized labor. Aymatth2 (talk) 03:52, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
Obviously when I say a century earlier in the US I can not mean precisely 100 years. I mean as early as the century prior, 1794, which predates the BLE by 69 years, and even before steam locomotion was put to serious industrial use. The union which formed in 1794 was the Federal Society of Journeymen Cordwainers, which like other unions of the time were regarded as conspiracies against commercial interests. And even this was not the first union in the nascent United States, and certainly not in America. Unions, as opposed to guilds, arose in direct relation to the rise of wage labor over apprenticeship, a long and slow dynamic in the increase in the number of laborers to each master and the transfer of ownership of tools and control of production to these masters. The American Civil War certainly spurred this development, but it was nothing new.
(Besides, if any claim were to be made of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers being the first of anything, I would hope a much better source could be found for this than an ambiguous passing comment in a 2013 speech by Hoffa[1] with a broken link.[2]) djr13 (talk) 09:00, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
  • It is not ambiguous. Hoffa says "As America’s earliest labor union...". I would say he knows something about the subject. There were earlier organizations, but the BLE seems to have been the first recognized union in the USA in the modern form. I will tweak the article to show this as a quote from Hoffa. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:07, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
This is a good way to mention the quote, thanks. Note that I had removed the claim on Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers itself as well. djr13 (talk) 13:40, 5 April 2014 (UTC)